A personal Gun story you won't see on the news!!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I doubt if the police would have wanted to hear the story anyhow. In the grand scheme of things, all they really did was stop on the side of the road, meander about, and then drive away. They can't prosecute "intentions" or "creepiness."

Good story getreadyalready and a safe result. As far the quote above informing the police isn't about prosecuting someone for something they didn't do on this occasion, it's about making them aware in case it happens to someone else. The 'what if' scenerio's you mention could have quite easily happened to someone since - they are obviously opportunists and the next victims might not be so lucky.

I pulled over to help a stranded woman once, her car was broke down, my spidey senses were tingling and sure enough I saw two guys hanging around in the bushes. I told the lady I'd call the cops for assistance, rather than get out the car, and she got all bothered and said she had some friends en-route .. yh right I thought.
I still called the cops even though nothing had actually happened - sometimes it's about the warning of caution to people in the area moreso than catching the villain.

reply to post by 46ACE


I agree..of course a shot in the assailants head will end the story but my point was you would still have to be up and awake and alret and quicker on the trigger than the bad guy.
The most powerful thing about a gun is knowing you have one, but the bad guy thinks the same way.
So it boils down to a coin toss, mostly.
with the amount of violent deaths and gun crimes in the U.S. i personally believe that all guns should be off the street and anyone caught with one should be caged for life as a deterrant.
Most criminals in the US dont have legal firearms but they get hold of them fairly easy as there are legal guns all over the country, to steal or buy illegally. So the access of guns is the real problem..getting a gun in response kinda only makes the vicious circle carry on but i fully understand why people want a gun for protection.
however the UK is a pretty violent place and some of the scumbags do have illegal firearms but if guns were on sale to the law abiding public..then all the scumbags would also gain access to them..and the violence we have here in the UK now, where people use knives and broken bottles etc, well it would be replaced by guns.
people generally recover from most stab wounds but guns have a far greater kill rate.
if guns were legal here we would make the U.S. look like a safe place and give mexico a run for its money haha.
im glad you take ownership seriously anyhow....like i said its not the good guys but the access to weapons thats the problem.
so if your fairly handy and you get a knife pulled on you there is a good chance you can still beat the guys ass or worse get a non lethal wound usually..or run.
but even if your packing and the assailand pulls first, as they usually will do, as thats their intention to attack you, so at best your move is just a reaction..and a reaction is by definiton going to be 2nd place to the predators move.
See my point. well even if you run your getting a bullett in the back, as recently happened to the two brits down in florida.
Unless a guy is a good knife thrower, your likley to get out of a knife situation.
Luckily in the OP's situation all three scumbags didnt pull out pieces...see what i mean.
We would be talking some hollywood superhero to get out of that one, even with a gun.
Thank God that didnt happen, but it illustrates that guns are basically bad for society.

You defused a potentially horrible drama very well and for that I salute you.

I'm English and as such have very limited experiences with firearms, I know people who allegedly have some, but I don't want to know (if that makes sense).

I am not in any way trying to insinuate your masculine sense of purpose and protection didn't save your little lady, it did, and I would have reacted in nearly the same manner as you, just a little more subtly aggressive and eager to use the tools god, my mum and my dad gave me. I feel more confident of my own 'hands and feet skills' than I would have done had I been secretly holding a weapon and I think this is where a lot of you good American folks let yourself down, you become reliant on the 'easy way out'.

I've been attacked by two heavy rottweillers simultaneously, and left both of them whelping and running for cover, taken on 4 and 5 guys at the same time and walked away smiling, a FEW times. NO I'm not built like The Rock, I'm 5 feet 10 inches with only a proportionate frame, nor have I trained in any martial arts or indulge in bodybuilding or any such comedic activity. What I am though, is hyper-alert in times of personal danger, and that sensitivity helps a LOT to focus on 'what needs to be done'. Naturally and physically, with aplomb and a maniacal smile on my face.

If I had been in your position, with firearm, I would probably be on remand right now.

Well done anyway, you used your discretion and probably saved lives,

reply to post by splitlevel


Simple fact- Cars kill more people per year by 200% than guns do. And more people use their cars as weapons to injure/kill people per year than they do firearms.I dont hear anyone screaming to ban THOSE inherently evil, petrol burning,oil wasting, planet polluting weapons of death. And there is no way an inanimate object can be evil or good.A weapon is just a tool. Be it knife, gun,bat,bottle or toothpick it can do nothing on its own. It is the person who makes the choice for good or evil.
Statistics prove that states and countries with strict gun laws have a higher violent crime rate.Just saying....

Originally posted by splitlevel
reply to post by 46ACE

 

I agree..of course a shot in the assailants head will end the story but my point was you would still have to be up and awake and alret and quicker on the trigger than the bad guy.

hello splitlevel:
your particular case: i.e."Ahm a gonna kill ya'!":
"ohyeah c'mon anytime: I'll leave the window open for you dirtbag..." was your individual situation. No one ever says a gun or a claw hammer is the perfect tool for every single situation.I would not want to taunt a homicidal scumbag.nor have to sleep with one eye open for years.....BUT
I would much rather have ready access to a firearm should something go "BUMP" in the night. and it would never hurt anyone( never even leave the house..) who wasn't directly attacking us. Just because you can come up with a scenario where the badguys can get the drop on you does not mean all weapons are useless to everybody.and hence should be removed from the population.

Originally posted by splitlevel
The most powerful thing about a gun is knowing you have one, but the bad guy thinks the same way.
So it boils down to a coin toss, mostly.

A coin toss?

Does it really? "Both armed": could go either way(A "coin toss"as you state depending on circumstances) you may live/you may die.

criminal (only) armed or a 6'8"exconvict power lifter with a full roid rage and you are at a distinct disavantage.(absolutely no "coin toss") you are beat to a pulp; cut;stabbed;shot..... killed.there is no option.you lose
hardly much of a"coin toss".. Personally I'll take that "toss" rather than not have the option.

Originally posted by splitlevel
with the amount of violent deaths and gun crimes in the U.S. i personally believe that all guns should be off the street and anyone caught with one should be caged for life as a deterrant.

Murder CURRENTLY carries a sentence of :"a lifetime in a cage or death. it hardly slows anybody these days.

Originally posted by splitlevel
Most criminals in the US dont have legal firearms but they get hold of them fairly easy as there are legal guns all over the country, to steal or buy illegally. So the access of guns is the real problem

SO I see by your logic it is perfectly reasonable to remove guns from the hands of law abiding?????I'm sorry I would respectfully have to disagree.

The 'genie" is out of the bottle.already. criminals have ready access to all the firearms they can steal or buy illegally. Laws only affect the law abiding. The least of your worries.

Originally posted by splitlevel
..getting a gun in response kinda only makes the vicious circle

"circle of violence"? Tough nooggies;you think you want to assault any of my tribe without cost to yourself? I'm only as violent as I get treated first.I live in one of the few "absolutely no concealed carry" states Mind your manners and you would never see any of my weapons or temper.

Originally posted by splitlevel
carry on but i fully understand why people want a gun for protection.
however the U is a pretty violent place and some of the scumbags do have illegal firearms but if guns were on sale to the law abiding public..then all the scumbags would also gain access to them..and the violence we have here in the UK now, where people use knives and broken bottles etc, well it would be replaced by guns.
people generally recover from most stab wounds but guns have a far greater kill rate.
if guns were legal here we would make the U.S. look like a safe place and give mexico a run for its money haha.
im glad you take ownership seriously anyhow....like i said its not the good guys but the access to weapons thats the problem.
so if your fairly handy and you get a knife pulled on you there is a good chance you can still beat the guys ass or worse get a non lethal wound usually..or run.
but even if your packing and the assailand pulls first, as they usually will do, as thats their intention to attack you, so at best your move is just a reaction..and a reaction is by definiton going to be 2nd place to the predators move.
See my point. well even if you run your getting a bullett in the back, as recently happened to the two brits down in florida.
Unless a guy is a good knife thrower, your likley to get out of a knife situation.
Luckily in the OP's situation all three scumbags didnt pull out pieces...see what i mean.
We would be talking some hollywood superhero to get out of that one, even with a gun.
Thank God that didnt happen, but it illustrates that guns are basically bad for society

"basically bad for society"? I'm sorry you are perfectly welcome to hold and state that position but I have to respectfully disagree.I don't think you've proven anything like that at all..

Originally posted by splitlevel



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edit on 15-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

Good job brother. Plenty of fellas want to flaunt their guns like they were a trophy or an ornament that somehow makes them better than everyone else. What really matters is knowing that you have the highest level of control no matter the situation. Guns are great in the hands of people that know how not to use them. Great story.

I envy you my friend. It sounds like you and I are about the same vintage but I live in Canada and have no right to bear arms.
Thing is, I have never been in a fight in all of my nearly 57 years and until the dawn of fascism in North America this century, I have always been a supporter of gun control.
The last ten years have changed my mind completely and if guns were as accessible in Canada as weapons are in your country, I would own an arsenal.
I truly fear self-defence is about to become a necessity rather than an intellectual exercise -- in both countries.

radicalheretic

reply to post by getreadyalready


Awesome story. My bro bought me my first handgun for xmas this year and I'm going to get my concealed carriers soon because I like to roadtrip. Having it was definitely a huge factor, no matter how tough you are (as I have no idea), do you think you could have been half as cool and have that confidence if you didn't have that means of protection for you and your wife?

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


You wrote:

************************

Yes use "a weapon".. not necessarily a gun. Get it now?


************************

OK then . . . what weapon?

I live in California, where I can legally carry a concealed handgun. No problems, 100% legal, believe it or not. Cal is not that bad really, many counties are very CCW friendly.

First off, here is a list of what I can't carry . . . potential felonies

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses...any ballistic knife...any nunchaku...any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken [ed: "throwing star"]...any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

So Any effective club-type weapon is out. Any 'hardened fist' weapons are out. Even hard plastic knuckles.

Knives? No gravity assist or spring assist knives. I could us a folding locked-blade knife, that's about it.

(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
...
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

Dirks or daggers . . . I *could* open carry one of these, meaning attached to my hip for instance. But the California 'dirk or dagger' section of the code can be a nightmare. It's interpreted very broadly, you would be amazed at the items my judges have found to qualify as a 'dirk or dagger' under this section. And the 'concealed' part of the statute is a trap as well. I've seen shirt tails partly covering a knife handle be interpreted as 'concealed' by district attorneys. You're really rolling the dice if you choose to carry a truly effective knife in California. If nothing else, your opening yourself up for greatly increased police scrutiny . . . which in my limited experience can be a bad thing.

A thumb-assist lock-blade knife is about as good as it gets. Oh, but make sure you don't accidentally forget it's in your pocket and walk onto a school with it. Felony. And you better be sure it comports 100% with California's knife laws.

The larger problem with a knife, is how are you going to deter multiple attackers with a knife (this thread's scenario for instance)? Why are you going to chose a self defense weapon that requires you to get within an arm's length of your attacker(s) before it can be used? And what if you bring your folding knife to a gun fight?

A stun gun has the same limitations of use as a knife IMO. Useful only against a single attacker, and you have to be within an arm's length for it to be effective.

Pepper spray? No thanks. I've read far too many police reports where the victim or officer used spray, only to have the attacker (my client!) continue to attack or resist. I don't think spray is an effective means of self defense. Hell, I *know* it's not.

So I ask you again, what are my real options? What weapons can I use?

My handgun I know is 100% legal to carry, so no surprises. I know it can be relied on for defense against more than a single attacker. It is a highly effective deterrent at greater than arm's length, which is the main goal.

Name the weapon -- other than a handgun -- that can do all 3 of those, and I'll honestly consider it. I don't particularly like to carry a handgun, I just don't see any effective alternatives.

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by BioStatistic

 

f-ck, it sounds like they were ready to kidnap your wife, violate her, kill her and dump her somewhere, or mostly likely bury her, never to be seen again and end up a missing person statistic with no investigation.

you should have rid the world of those scum. this obviously wasn't the first time they have done this and they sound like opportunists or pre meditated serial rapist/murderers.

i know it might have been hard without endangering your wife, but you should have let it play out longer until they made a definite attempt on your wife, yelled at her to run and then start dropping bodies.

at the very lest you should have made them taste the fear of death, so next time they might think twice or God willing stop.

i feel bad, this is evil at it's worst form. the next girl might not be so lucky.

edit on 11-5-2011 by randomname because: (no reason given)

You need to rethink your approach. You don't play these situations out like some bad "B" movie plot. That is a quick way to get inncoent people, or yourself, killed. Despite what some people believe, you are not Lone Wolf Mcquade and hand guns are not magic death rays. Trying to take on three people with unknown armaments while all you are carrying is a smal .380 ACP is not smart.

More importantly concealed carry is not about luring people in to a situation where you can start "dropping bodies." It is aboout defending your life when there is no other choice. Anything else quickly becomes murder, manslaughter, or assault with a deadly weapon.

I think the only thing Get Ready could have done better was to get the plates. Of course, I understand why he didn't. A report would have given cops a starting point if something bad happened later. It is especially true in a smaller department where each cop handles more of the load and information flows more freely.

People like you give all CCH holders a bad name. We spend enough time fighting to maintain our rights. We don't need people on our side saying things that paint us all as vigilantes waiting for blood.

reply to post by TKDRL


What many here don't know is that I use to volunteer at a rape crisis center. I can tell you that a cell phone is not a real defense. I'll relate the story of one woman that worked there. I will keep the names out of it. I'll call her beth for the purpose of the story.

Beth lived in a neighborhood in a state that made it nearly impossible to get a CCH permit.

Beth was a bikini model that made her living traveling the country modeling and competing in bikini competitions. To say she was beautiful would be an understatement. (Think 1940's pinup girl with more bikini filling curves.) While she was on a photo shoot she met a guy that was charming, suave, and considerate. She was smitten and started a long distance relationship. After a couple of years she moved in with him and they started planning a wedding. They got married.

After the wedding he started getting jealous about her career and travelling. He became certain that she had several boyfriends on the road. So, she ended up quiting her career to take a more normal job. Soon he began becoming violent. After he beat her unconcious one night she decided it was time to leave. She had him arrested and while he was locked up she moved out. She also took time to get a restraining order.

She moved from hotel to hotel untill she found a place to live. The second night in her new home her estranged husband showed up. He was banging on the doors and windows trying to get in. She called the cops and told them her abusive ex was there in violation of the restraining order. The communicator told her that all units were currently busy. An officer would be there when they could get free.

It took the cops nearly forty minutes to get there. By the time they got there it was too late. Her ex had broken in to the house. He raped her vaginally and anally for nearly twenty minutes. While he was doing it he told her, "I'm going to ruin you. No other man will want to **** you ever again." While she laid there bleeding from her anus and vagina, he sliced her face twice. Each cut went from ear to ear. He then smashed her nose. It was broken to the point that she had to have reconstructive surgery just to breathe through it again.

The cops arrived fifteen minutes after he had left. She lost so much blood that she had passed out. By the time the police called for an ambulance she had started going in to shock. She barely suruved.

So, anybody thinking a cell phone is enough should think again. Now if she had been holding a 9mm when he came in things probably would have ended very different. She probably wouldn't have had to move thousands of miles away. She probably wouldn't have endured such suffering and she probably wouldn't be living her life scared that when her ex gets out of jail he is going to come looking for her.

Since then she has gotten remarried to a great guy. They are both NRA members with their CCH permits. While it it provides comfort now it doesn't repair the damage done.

reply to post by MikeNice81


I think people really do confuse real life with TV. It is not like TV, where you call the cops, and 5 seconds later there are 10 cop cars full of heros coming to rescue you. I have seen situations where guys call the cops to get crazy or drunk woman out of the house, and instead get arrested for assaults that never even happened. Life is not like TV and novels at all.

Originally posted by LosLobos
Here is something else to ponder. What if I was an off duty cop responding to a school shooting. Would some carry and conceal person know I was an off duty cop? Being a minority then I would think there would be a mexican standoff between he and I trying to convince him I was a cop.

After a few minutes of dealing with him I would just shoot the guy.

If you show up without your badge and credintials you could be shot by the police. I know the department I work with has about 82 police officers. I don't know half of them. We all work on assigned squads. So, a guy from A squad probably doesn't recognize a guy from D squad. One is usually working while the other one is off.

So, if you were a D Squad cop running in to the school an A squad cop could put you in the dirt just as quick. In fact it happens several times a year. Plain clothes officers are killed just as often by friendly fire as by perps.

Your scenario shows a lack of understanding about the real world operations of such scenarios.

Originally posted by JayFlores
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Simple fact- Cars kill more people per year by 200% than guns do. And more people use their cars as weapons to injure/kill people per year than they do firearms.I dont hear anyone screaming to ban THOSE inherently evil, petrol burning,oil wasting, planet polluting weapons of death. And there is no way an inanimate object can be evil or good.A weapon is just a tool. Be it knife, gun,bat,bottle or toothpick it can do nothing on its own. It is the person who makes the choice for good or evil.
Statistics prove that states and countries with strict gun laws have a higher violent crime rate.Just saying....

yeah I dont have the stats, but I do know where I am right now cars kill more people than anything else...mainly due to teenaged lads who think they are on the rally circuit. But I get your point about cars being leathal.
I dunno if you got my point really....but the point was...if you holding a gun, the best your ever going to be is second on the draw if you attacker has a gun.
Thats right a gun is a tool...but it wont be effective if the attacker draws down on your first. Any if you apply a bit of common sense logic...its in the nature of an attacker to draw his weapon 1st, as thats how you know your being attacked.
If your responding to an attack your likley to come off second best unless you have lightning fast reflexes and a mind to boot.
this is what people ought to focus on rather than a gun, as like I said unless your the fastest gun slinger in the west, your likley gonna be toast and even those gun slingers had rules of engagement and were on full allert waiting for the other guy to draw. Id rather not be on full allret, red allret 24/7, with an itchy trigger finger...waiting for an attack as its not much of a quality of life living in permanant state of fear...unless your really fearless then you wouldnt need a gun anyhow as you wouldnt care either way.
id rather move somewhere with less people and less guns.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by splitlevel
reply to post by 46ACE

 

I agree..of course a shot in the assailants head will end the story but my point was you would still have to be up and awake and alret and quicker on the trigger than the bad guy.

hello splitlevel:
your particular case: i.e."Ahm a gonna kill ya'!":
"ohyeah c'mon anytime: I'll leave the window open for you dirtbag..." was your individual situation. No one ever says a gun or a claw hammer is the perfect tool for every single situation.I would not want to taunt a homicidal scumbag.nor have to sleep with one eye open for years.....BUT
I would much rather have ready access to a firearm should something go "BUMP" in the night. and it would never hurt anyone( never even leave the house..) who wasn't directly attacking us. Just because you can come up with a scenario where the badguys can get the drop on you does not mean all weapons are useless to everybody.and hence should be removed from the population.

Originally posted by splitlevel
The most powerful thing about a gun is knowing you have one, but the bad guy thinks the same way.
So it boils down to a coin toss, mostly.

A coin toss?

Does it really? "Both armed": could go either way(A "coin toss"as you state depending on circumstances) you may live/you may die.

criminal (only) armed or a 6'8"exconvict power lifter with a full roid rage and you are at a distinct disavantage.(absolutely no "coin toss") you are beat to a pulp; cut;stabbed;shot..... killed.there is no option.you lose
hardly much of a"coin toss".. Personally I'll take that "toss" rather than not have the option.

Originally posted by splitlevel
with the amount of violent deaths and gun crimes in the U.S. i personally believe that all guns should be off the street and anyone caught with one should be caged for life as a deterrant.

Murder CURRENTLY carries a sentence of :"a lifetime in a cage or death. it hardly slows anybody these days.

Originally posted by splitlevel
Most criminals in the US dont have legal firearms but they get hold of them fairly easy as there are legal guns all over the country, to steal or buy illegally. So the access of guns is the real problem

SO I see by your logic it is perfectly reasonable to remove guns from the hands of law abiding?????I'm sorry I would respectfully have to disagree.

The 'genie" is out of the bottle.already. criminals have ready access to all the firearms they can steal or buy illegally. Laws only affect the law abiding. The least of your worries.

Originally posted by splitlevel
..getting a gun in response kinda only makes the vicious circle

"circle of violence"? Tough nooggies;you think you want to assault any of my tribe without cost to yourself? I'm only as violent as I get treated first.I live in one of the few "absolutely no concealed carry" states Mind your manners and you would never see any of my weapons or temper.

Originally posted by splitlevel
carry on but i fully understand why people want a gun for protection.
however the U is a pretty violent place and some of the scumbags do have illegal firearms but if guns were on sale to the law abiding public..then all the scumbags would also gain access to them..and the violence we have here in the UK now, where people use knives and broken bottles etc, well it would be replaced by guns.
people generally recover from most stab wounds but guns have a far greater kill rate.
if guns were legal here we would make the U.S. look like a safe place and give mexico a run for its money haha.
im glad you take ownership seriously anyhow....like i said its not the good guys but the access to weapons thats the problem.
so if your fairly handy and you get a knife pulled on you there is a good chance you can still beat the guys ass or worse get a non lethal wound usually..or run.
but even if your packing and the assailand pulls first, as they usually will do, as thats their intention to attack you, so at best your move is just a reaction..and a reaction is by definiton going to be 2nd place to the predators move.
See my point. well even if you run your getting a bullett in the back, as recently happened to the two brits down in florida.
Unless a guy is a good knife thrower, your likley to get out of a knife situation.
Luckily in the OP's situation all three scumbags didnt pull out pieces...see what i mean.
We would be talking some hollywood superhero to get out of that one, even with a gun.
Thank God that didnt happen, but it illustrates that guns are basically bad for society

"basically bad for society"? I'm sorry you are perfectly welcome to hold and state that position but I have to respectfully disagree.I don't think you've proven anything like that at all..

Originally posted by splitlevel



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edit on 15-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

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edit on 15-5-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

hey there, hows it going.
just to respond a little. I wasnt taungting that fool who threatened me. What I was really doing is letting him believe what he wanted to..if your smart you can apply a little logic here. if a guy comes to my house and knows what he is doing, he can pick a lock, disable an alarm etc and creep up stairs and kill me in my sleep. So basically if someone is going to do that there isnt much point worrying about it...is there...afterall you gotta sleep, so you may as well sleep.
Other wise whats the alternative, staying up every night for years, being ready, ruining your life..only to get whacked some other place you never even expected.
the open window was saying "im ready to die", which he read as "im ready to kill you". See what i mean it wasnt a taunt, but if someone did come in and if I woke up, because im ready for death, it would make me more dangerous than the attacker. You have to get to that point yourself before you can live life well. i wouldnt want to carry a gun because this is how I think but to each their own.
i dont sleep with a bat beside my bed or knife...my old man did though and he was the most frightening man I had to deal with. thats what fear does, it makes you edgy and eventually it comes out as aggression...ive seen it.
If I carried a weapon id be consious of having a weapon on me all the time and that would be in my mind all the time...waiting for something to happen...I dont like living like that. i mean the OP's story ...how many gun holders might have made a pre-emtive strike on those trailer trash and wasted them..only to find that they were all unnarmed..and as i said earlier if they were armed they would have drawn down first and you would have 3 armed targets where they would only have one.
No question there a bad and sick creeps out there but you cant live your life on the possibiltiy that your gonna be a victim...that no life. Like i said if I was afraid enough to weaponsie myself id just move to the wilderness instead.
I fully understand though why people have guns for protection and i wouldnt every ask them to forgo that protection as id get shot hahaha but its not my way...thats all.

reply to post by splitlevel


Your post makes sense except for one thing, you are wrong. There are hundreds of thousands of cases every year of people in America using guns for self defense. Many times even when the other person was first to pull a gun or knife.

I'll post just one from another thread.

College Student Kills Home Invaders

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

One invader died and the other will be serving time in jail. One innocent person was injured, but did recover. 9 lives were saved without injury. I think that is a good result.

Actually I'll give you another one just because I have the time.

Beaufort Man Shoots Armed Intruders

Police tell News Three one suspect was carrying a rifle, the other a pistol.

Investigators have now identified those men as 24-year-old Lucas Miles Morgan of Saint Helena and 25-year-old Darryl James Pryor of Burton.

According to police, a 22-year-old guest in the home pulled a pistol on the suspects, shooting Darryl Pryor. The suspects then fled.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Your post makes sense except for one thing, you are wrong. There are hundreds of thousands of cases every year of people in America using guns for self defense. Many times even when the other person was first to pull a gun or knife.

I'll post just one from another thread.

College Student Kills Home Invaders

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

One invader died and the other will be serving time in jail. One innocent person was injured, but did recover. 9 lives were saved without injury. I think that is a good result.

Actually I'll give you another one just because I have the time.

Beaufort Man Shoots Armed Intruders

Police tell News Three one suspect was carrying a rifle, the other a pistol.

Investigators have now identified those men as 24-year-old Lucas Miles Morgan of Saint Helena and 25-year-old Darryl James Pryor of Burton.

According to police, a 22-year-old guest in the home pulled a pistol on the suspects, shooting Darryl Pryor. The suspects then fled.

I dont dispude that guns can save you..Luckily the story you mention is about some real bad but again stupid killers, who apparently were letting everyone know in advance what they intended doing. what I said was that guns wont save you most of the time and Im sure you will find many more cases where the victim didnt get to their gun fast enough or the attacker just blind sided them. Like I said the nature of an attack means your not expecting it and can only react in 2nd place..the perps in your story made sure the intended victims had a chance to react.
Actually i am suprised that armed invaders , once one of their guys was taken out, im suprised that they didnt all open up and shoot everyone in sight anyway... but in this case it sounds like wasting one of them scared the lot of tem off, like i said evil but stupid also...Now tell me you never heard of a story like that because that happens too, where one shot starts a gun fight.
this time shooting one of them scared the rest off but another time it would only aggrivate and escalate a robbery in to a slaughter house, luckily the victims were basically told in advance what was going to be their fate and gave them a window to react, this isnt usually the case..in this case a gun deffo saved lives. I aint trying to pi55 gun owners off and Im not a liberal as I believe real scumbags should be exicuted but Im saying guns are not effective against other guns usually, they may give you a sense of safety but its a false sense of safety..afterall didnt the home invasion crew think they were going to have the upper hand because they were armed, thats the mind set of having a gun. obviously they were stupid aswell not frisking the vics first when they could have discovered and taken ther guys protection. So really you have to hope that if your in a bad situation that the assailant is really dumb aswell. probably most of them are, but not all. If the armed gang came to my home, id alreay know that shooting one of them is a coin toss. they might rape and kill your family weather you have a gun or not or they might rob you and just leave..a gun could save you from assault or escalate a robbery into mass murder...you just dont know. You could regret it either way...




the genei is out of the bottle with firarms...and its the easy access to firearms that make a scumbags 1000 times more dangerous.
By having legal weapons it only means that you have a more lethal class of criminal. I know mexico has gun laws but all the weapons there are from the US, as its so easy to get hold of them illegally. if there were no legal weapons in the US then mexico wouldnt be on fire right now. If I was responsible for legislation Id outlaw all guns. then Id give a short amnesty for people to hand in their weapons, then i make it an instant death penalty for anyone who was found to have a gun, none of this waiting on death row rubbish. you make a few examples and then virtually no criminal would risk getting stopped and searched with a gun on them or risk commiting an armed robbery, only a few dozen criminally insane left and they could be eventually picked off aswell. And within maybe a few years the gun problem would be sorted almost 100 percent.



you would then be left with only armed police...as it should be. still not a perfect world but a lot safer than with guns in circulation.

by the way...to whoever said banning guns is like banning cars..as cars kill more people and pollute etc.
great idea..Im all for it.
i dont own one.
Waste of money, resources and i can get a train, which is more efficient, gets me there a lot quicker, costs me a lot less and usually doesnt crash or get stuck in huge traffic jams where I lose my head with road rage. back in the 50's maybe it made good sense to own a car..not anymore, now the roads are clogged up and petrol costs a fortune and even if petrol was cheap there would only be even more car owners and more clogged roads and more pollution.
The basic principal in life is weigh the pros against the cons..if the cons outweigh the pros then to continue down a path overweighed with cons isnt very smart, is it...but thats modern society and slelfisheness before common sense, if the world is dead and barron and stripped of resorces then we die as a result. if the world carries on with this mentality we know the final result and we are already beginning to see it more and more.
Have a car for personal freedom, thats the idea, but the reality is, it costs you a huge portion of you income to buy and maintain the car and the hours spent at work are not free...so the car cancels out the personal freedom doesnt it, on top of that how many places can you drive these days without having a billion other cars in your way..also not very freeing...so actually for the most part the car is a millstone around your neck and its not even very safe as pointed out earlier and pollutes your own air supply etc. if people aplied this common sense logic to guns they would see the same thing, but they dont want to see common sense.
Im sorry but this is the mentality behind guns...they are tools but there are too many of them and all the bad guys have them and always will aslong as there in circulation full stop.
And Im not a libreal..I believe in capital punishment...but common sense is the overiding principal.






finally this is my last post on this thread as it not about my opinion anyhow and i am relieved that the OP and anyone else who has escaped a violent or potentially life threatening incident has done so with the aid of the gun as a tool. We know guns can be useful for protection, obviously, but cars can be useful too. the point is to see the overall picture and make a judgement call. Overall guns will be used as weapons and not as protection. End of.

reply to post by splitlevel

but in this case it sounds like wasting one of them scared the lot of tem off,

That is the usual result. In most group attacks there is usually an Alpha. If he is taken out the rest scatter. It happens the same way in fist fights. In this particular case it seems like they thought over whelming force would work in their advantage. When they found someone resisting they fled. That is usually the way it works with bullys.

Im saying guns are not effective against other guns usually

I'm not trying to be a Richard Noggin but, do some research. It works very often. There are stories all over the place of it working. There are stories that fit your line of thinking. However, there are more that show using a gun against an armed attacker usually works in th victims favor.

So really you have to hope that if your in a bad situation that the assailant is really dumb aswell. probably most of them are, but not all.

So if we follow your line of thinking it should still work in the victims favor more often than not.

the genei is out of the bottle with firarms...and its the easy access to firearms that make a scumbags 1000 times more dangerous.

Here is the thing, America is in the midst of a twenty year low in violent crime and murders. I am not simple enough to believe it is all because of guns. However, it does prove that relaxed gun laws and a "proliferation" of guns has not lead to an increase in gun related crime or violence. In fact preliminary numbers for 2010 show that the only places experiencing a rise in crime were places that passed stricter gun laws.

I know mexico has gun laws but all the weapons there are from the US, as its so easy to get hold of them illegally.

So some more research. Only about 17% of cartel guns come from America. Many of their guns are coming from Chinese black market sources. A lot of them have even come from North Korean sources. Also, the 17% includes American military arms that soldiers stole when they deserted to join cartells. It also includes black market shipments from other South American countries that had left over military supplies from American intervention in the 80's and 90's. Don't even get me started on the fact that the ATF told gun stores to sell guns illegally to suspected gun smugglers. Then they let them cross the border. It led to the death of a border agent. Look up project gunwalker.

you would then be left with only armed police...as it should be. still not a perfect world but a lot safer than with guns in circulation.

You do know that when cops use a gun they kill an innocent person 5 times more often than civilians using guns for self defense, right? Do some research.

I'm not angry at you for your point of view. It just shows a lack of research. I use to be ambivalent about guns. Then I took the time to do some in depth research. I spent hours upon hours studying the topic. I come to realize that a lot of what I thought I knew was rubish. A lot of what we think we know comes from disinformation spread by both sides of the argument. It wasn't untill I started looking at the actual figures from the FBI, CDC, and other sources that I realized the truth.

You obviously have an emotional view of the subject. Nothing may ever change your mind. However, try to deny ignorance and do some in depth research of the subject. Things aren't what they seem.