(To christians... ) So.... just hypothetically....what if Jesus returns... (Serious responses only p

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Well, there is a verse in Revelations 13 that teaches that the anti-christ would wage war against Gods "holy people" and conquer them. This, in my opinion, is indicative of a conflict involving the forces of the AC and a resisting force (Gods holy people). This is BEFORE the 2nd appearance of Jesus..and highly relevant to the subject matter of the OP.

Yes it is before, but these people are being hunted, not hunting. You can wage war against people who aren't fighting back. Where is the command to fight back? Where are the generals? These are people who came to faith after the Rapture, because Jesus had promised that "the gates of hell" would not overcome the "church". And as I explained elsewhere, this final 7 years is the wrath of God on mankind, not on the Body of Christ. So we're not talking about church-age believers here, who would be under the rules of the NT anyway. There is simply no command for anyone either in this age or the next to pick up weapons to fight the forces of evil. The only exception is that the "two witnesses" are able, through supernatural means, to destroy unbelievers at will. Yet even here we're not talking about an army.

Hang on. I dont get what you are saying. Are you telling me that Jesus makes his second coming in two installments? First as a thief in the night and then as a conquering king? Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I have gathered from your post.

Yes. As I said, no one foresaw that he would come first as a lamb and then a lion, and in the same way many don't realize that he will come as a bridegroom for his bride, and then as a conquering king. I think I explained the detail about the way Jesus told us much of this through the analogy of the Jewish wedding customs of the day in another comment, but if you'd like to hear more about that just let me know.

Yes, but the OP is challenging the christian portrayal of Jesus' return... and considering current events* posits a scenario where Jesus returns as an islamic militant. (Dont get me wrong, this is not a muslim vs christian thing, but rather looiking at prophecy from a different perspective.)
The basis for this is that Jesus is also mentioned in Islamic eschatology.

I think that in my responses here so far, it's clearer now why the OP's scenario will not happen. Though some prophecy teachers try to wedge Islam into the Bible now, I call that "newspaper eschatology" and challenge them to make every detail fit, not just some or most. There are similarities, but as I said, it's the differences that matter most.

When each one of us dies, that is our Rapture.
I see the signs around me.
The volcano in Iceland erupts for the second time.
Millions of fish die in the Philippines.
There are strange lasting rumbling sounds in the U.S., England, everywhere.

I see myself dying and asking several questions to the spirits who lift me up.
Family and friends that have gone before.

Q: Who is Jesus?
A: Well, Harod the Great's wife Mary, his brother-in-law Joseph, and her sons may have had to do with part of this mythology of Jesus Barabbas and Judas Thomas Barabbas.

Jesus Son of Panther was the founder of the Jewish Essene Movement based on Buddhist, Jewish and Egyptian religion. He was stoned and hung from a tree on Passover.

Apollonius of Tyana (Paul/Greek Roman Jesus) may have added Krishna and Mithras as well as Neo-Pythagorean beliefs.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Umm I Dont know, Christians and Jews !!!!!!!

1. The Prince of Peace aka Jesus Christ.. comes Not to bring Peace but a Sword
This sounds just like our modern day Millitary '... I'll Destroy You all in a bloody rage and
force Peace if i have to.

2. I know Jesus and Mohammad are the same person, they both claim to be peaceful they both
claim to be the Christ, even though there have been many many countless Christs throughout
History all fighting to be THE ONE. Yet both are willing to Kill Women and Children in order to
force Peace. Clearly there is something wrong with this picture.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Matthew 10:34)

Ask yourselves honestly... will you simply dismiss this as being symbolic or metaporical? Do you think certain christian groups would not have brought this up in their arguments against a certain other prophet?



2. Quote 2...

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38)

Note that jesus insisted that they buy a sword...and the disciples did not seem surprised upon hearing that, and simply replied that they have two.)

What if it was Mohammad whp said these words?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The sword is for protection in a defend your self situation.

As you will note if you read the bible Jesus never said go out and kill everyone that will not except my way.

He said love thy enemy, love thy neighbor.

Yes the sword is also a metaphor, as the word of God cuts deep into the marrow of the sinner and transgressor.

He also stated that those who come to him will be divided from the non-believer, not by their choice, but because the non-believer will be convicted in his spirit when ever around a believer. Which will cause the NB to stay away and even mock the Believer to make his convictions invalid.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


Regardless of the symbolism behind "sword", Jesus made it clear that he was not here to bring peace.

a) Point being, Jesus had a use for violence and was not all about love. Think about it...he used violence to rid the temple of people who were misusing the temple premises. Jesus was harsh with the money changers because he was defending the sanctity of the temple from commercial activities, i.e preserve the sanctity of a place associated with God. Regardless of the "lovey-dovey" verses, its established that Jesus had a use for violence.

b)The rest of my post, about Jesus returning as an islamic militant rests on point a) that even those highest in the sight of God can use violence to get things done.

c)My idea of Jesus returning as an islamic militant is based of an idea that Jesus is not the property of christianity.... but that Jesus' personlaity can be interpreted from a certain other religon that also views Jesus as the messiah, born of a virgin. In other words, you and me, as people born in the 20th century, who believe in a Jesus character because of what was taught to us, have 2 sources to study the personality of Jesus. (i.e the accounts of Jesus in Christian and Islamic literature). The point to be noted is that both Christian and Islamic documents prophecize that a certain virgin born messiah will return in the end times to defeat an "anti-christ" character in an "end-times battle".

To blindly accept one acount as truth and the other as a lie is not a wise way of going about things.

d) Now on to Islam. Ask yourself: if muslims believe that Jesus is their messiah... and if muslims await his coming as eagerly as any christian***, why shouldnt anyone who believes in Jesus' second coming consider the Islamic perspective? Remember, Jesus himself was not here to estabish a new religon, but rather to re-enforce an existing one.

e) Now to put things into perspective..... remember the victory of the Afghan mujahideen over the forces of the atheist Soviet Union. Yes, they recieved weapons aid from the US, but it was these mujahideen who resisted and defeated a SUPERPOWER. This war was a "Jihad" by definition. Perhaps the first war where an irreligious army was defeated by a religious one, despite massive differences in terms of training, weaponry and resources.

To conclude, The victory of the Afghan mujahideen, i.e ragtag guerillas over an atheist superpower opened my mind to the possibility of Jesus, also awaited by muslims, returning to fight alongside a new generation of Muslim mujahideen.



(*** there are people who spread misinformation that the "mahdi" is the islamic messiah, but the Koran makes it clear that Jesus is the messiah. )

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Since many believe that Jesus and the heavenly gang are in fact E.T.s I don't take a lot of comfort in that "comes with a sword" statement.

Anyway OP, this is a great thought experiment.

In the potential endless amount of reactions there will probably be...

-Since he is not on "our"side he must be false, because Jesus is supposed to a Texan...

Honestly I lay equal chances that the sword comment will mean he works as the blue knight at Medievel times.

reply to post by Helmkat

Since many believe that Jesus and the heavenly gang are in fact E.T.s I don't take a lot of comfort in that "comes with a sword" statement.

"many believe jesus and the heavenly gang are in fact E.T.s"
....what??

Anyway OP, this is a great thought experiment.
In the potential endless amount of reactions there will probably be...

-Since he is not on "our"side he must be false, because Jesus is supposed to a Texan...
Honestly I lay equal chances that the sword comment will mean he works as the blue knight at Medievel times.

Jesus... texan? blue knight? what are you even talking about?

Is that really a possibility in your mind?or are you trying to make a case for Islam?
i was not even gonna answer but here it goes,let the scriptures speak on their behalf.......

"10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT, which is the WORD OF GODthe Holy Scriptures)
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Ephesians 6:10-18KJV

JESUS' return was predicted as follows:
Revelation 19:11-14(KJV)
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS...

his first coming was as an offering,(a LAMB),his second will be as THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDA.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Jesus won't be labled as a terrorist. He will be unstoppable, and when he reveals himself no one will doubt who he is. Believers will know him when we see him. I will know my Lord and King and i will not hesitate to kneel down before him. He will bring with him a sword, but it will not be aimed at his children, but at his enemies and the enemies who seek to hurt his children, he adopted us as if we were his own and we have no need to fear our father.

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

Is that really a possibility in your mind?or are you trying to make a case for Islam?

I think its a possibility...considering how "christianity" and "islam" as we know it today did not exist during the time when Jesus walked on earth, yet both religons prophecize that Jesus would return in the end times to slay the anti-christ.

Im not trying to "make a case for Islam", but rather just stating that Jesus is not exclusive to only christianity. I am presenting the Islamic version of the same end times events and in doing so, Im visualising a more real life scenario involving the religious army of Jesus fighting the anti-christs irreligious army.

Ive said this before. Consider how the rag-tag mujahideen(holy warriors) of Afghanistan, defeated the atheist army of the Soviets a few decades ago. Now, how many other religious armies can you name who have accompolished the feat of defeating an irreligious army? (And no... your personal opinion on Islam does not change the fact that an Islamic army routed an atheistic superpower)

I am using the model of the Afghan-Soviet war to portray a future war between an underequipped religous army of Jesus and a state-of-the-art armies of the anti-christ.

Futhermore, I am stressing on the biblical verse that teaches he will "come as a thief at night".
My interpretation of this verse is that he will come in stealth... much like how a thief would enter a house.

Somehow, Jesus showing up in a blaze of glory in the sky is not exactly thief-like.
IMO, Jesus turning out to be a guerilla fighter, is the ultimate way of staying undetected (thief-like) to anybody awaiting him. Which is pretty much the premise of this thread.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Get your swords......

What if it was Mohammad whp said these words?

One of half of the world is a place where societies allow religion to mauled open in the name of "secularism" and "free speech", but in the other half..., those who take up arms for a religious beliefs are labelled as a threat to the civilized world...as "insurgents" or "terrorists".


And then... this character turns out to be none other than.... Jesus Christ.

Christianity is the New Islam according to the Cultural Marxists.
Black is White,Political Correctness (Silence ) is free speech.

So now you are saying Islamic religious terrorists are LIKE the New Christians and amongst the terrorists
is the returned Jesus.
Congratulations. You have taken Cultural Marxism to a new extreme.

Islam is a political terrorist cult. Islam and Politics are never separate.
Islam must be a theocracy to be true Islam. Islam is not compatible
with democracy,freedom and rational thought and justice.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Regardless of the symbolism behind "sword", Jesus made it clear that he was not here to bring peace.

a) Point being, Jesus had a use for violence and was not all about love.

b)The rest of my post, about Jesus returning as an islamic militant rests on point a) that even those highest in the sight of God can use violence to get things done.

c)My idea of Jesus returning as an islamic militant is based of an idea that Jesus is not the property of christianity.... The point to be noted is that both Christian and Islamic documents prophecize that a certain virgin born messiah will return in the end times to defeat an "anti-christ" character in an "end-times battle".


d) Now on to Islam. Ask yourself: if muslims believe that Jesus is their messiah... and if muslims await his coming as eagerly as any christian***, why shouldnt anyone who believes in Jesus' second coming consider the Islamic perspective? Remember, Jesus himself was not here to estabish a new religon, but rather to re-enforce an existing one.

(*** there are people who spread misinformation that the "mahdi" is the islamic messiah, but the Koran makes it clear that Jesus is the messiah. )

The Koran makes it clear that MOHAMMED is the LAST PROPHET and final word of God. Jesus is not considered a God in Islam. There is no MESSIAH in Islam. No one is equal to God.
Cite your verses if can find such to back up your fabrications.
Jesus references to violence have to do with the conflict between spiritually converted people who
practice the way of self sacrifice or love and the rest of the world who practice Narcissism like you.

In Islam, Jesus (Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Qur'an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.[2][3] It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah). To aid in his ministry to the Jewish people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.), all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified but instead, he was raised up by God unto the heavens. This "raising" is understood to mean through bodily ascension. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[4][5] Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Qur'an says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[6] The Qur'an emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (tawhīd).

Jesus was never a Christian. Jesus taught the sacrifice of the Heart or the Way of Love.

Jesus was definitely not a Muslim but the exact opposite of what Islam teaches.

reply to post by RRokkyy

So now you are saying Islamic religious terrorists are LIKE the New Christians and amongst the terrorists
is the returned Jesus.

Im not saying anything like that. So stop putting words into my mouth.

"amongst the terrorists is the returned Jesus"

I never said that either. The actual words in the OP are...

There suddenly appears a skilled guerilla warfare commander... who will be labelled by the MSM as an "islamist terrorist". He will be extremely religious. He will fight for his religious beliefs against a government/ruling authority that is far from religious

This is in context to my hypothesized future war between Jesus' rag-tag guerilla army and the forces of the anti-christ.

Islam is a political terrorist cult. Islam and Politics are never separate. Islam must be a theocracy to be true Islam. Islam is not compatible with democracy,freedom and rational thought and justice.

" Islam is not compatible with democracy,freedom and rational thought and justice."

Yeah, sure.... and western democracy is compatible with 'freedom' and 'justice'... you know, with all its large scale global wars, bombing civilians from the skies, banking cartels, usurping of wealth, lying to its own people over etc. etc.

The Koran makes it clear that MOHAMMED is the LAST PROPHET and final word of God. Jesus is not considered a God in Islam.

Yes, Jesus is not considered a God in Islam. I never said such a thing.

There is no MESSIAH in Islam.

Wrong.
Jesus is THE messiah. He is known as al-Masih, i.e - the messiah. You dont even know the basics of the religion you are railing against.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n




"Like a thief in the night" means that no one will know the time of His return, not the way He will return. You never know when a thief is gonna rob your house.

Christ has already returned my friend. Surely I cannot be the only one who has seen him?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
Considering my good friend isn't here to post an answer (prehaps he just choses not to answer *shrug* )

1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. 5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. 6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. 7He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

I simply haven't been paying as much attention to ATS as I once did nor do I desire the attention that was returned. What I came to do, I did.

I do appreciate you sharing my threads Brother. I hope others find them as enjoyable as you did.

On a side note...

ABOVE
TOP
SECRET

Sure is a fitting description of Heaven to me...

I'll be seeing you around Brother.

Judge not, Love all.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by sk0rpi0n
[more
LET ME REMIND YOU WARS ARE NOT WON IN THE BATTLEFIELD, THE FACT THAT THE SO CALLED HOLLY ISLAMIC WARRIORS DEFEATED AN ATHEIST ARMY PROVES NOTHING, IF THAT WAS THE CASE THAN LET ME REMIND YOU ABOUT KING HESEKIA'S MIRACULOUS DEFEAT OF THOUSANDS OF ASSYRIANS IN THE 6TH CENTURY B.C. ONLY TO COME BACK AND DEFEAT HIM LATER, THERE IS IN FACT A SPIRITUAL WAS GOING ON ,MUCH OF WITH WE ARE NOT EVEN AWARE,JESUS WAS THE MOST ANTI-RELIGIOUS PERSON THAT EVER EXISTED, ACEPTING HIM AS YOUR SAVIOR IS A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP NOT A RELIGION, AND HE WILL NOT EVEN MAKE A SINGLE MOVE AGINST THE ANTI-CHRIST HE WILL SIMPLY SPEAK A WORD,. ....Jude 1:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. HIS FIRST COMING WAS AS A SACRIFICIAL LAMB HIS RETURN WILL BE AS THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDA..

You say Jesus will need to use pathetic man made weapons like RPGs and AK47's?

This thread is absolutely absurd. As a Christian i cannot possibly take this thread seriously.

Better luck trolling next time.