Nato strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

Kind of interesting how they didn't show his body on the MSM, just a flag covering something. Is this guy really dead?

Some kind of propaganda one way or another? Why else would Gaddafi cover his dead son with a flag and take pictures of him for the media? Maybe Libyans don't believe in honoring their dead.

I'm just speculating based on what is being shown on TV so don't bite my head off.

Originally posted by nakiel
I was just about to write some hogwash; making a point of that the photos of the bombed residential home did not look much residential....

....but just now there are coming in lots of unconfirmed twits about Gaddafi bombing Misrata with chems!!

Gaddafi's forces were pushed back from Misrata by the rebel/insurgents and NATO air strikes. I heard Gaddafi only has about 30% of his chemical warfare available. I think that should be a priority. It's hard to say who the target will be, besides Misrata. They killed the wrong guy. They said on CNN they wanted to remove the head of the snake, now we must sit and wait to see what happens. It's highly unlikely Gaddafi will enter another truce offer at this point. It seems to be an all out war now! I wonder when the French groud troops will show up.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
The fact is the United States bombed Libya to get Nato forces in there...PERIOD...Politcal they claim it is not U.S. lead.Fact is the U.S. in reailty started the bombing campaign.

The first aircraft in were European, 19 French fighter jets. Its a joint operation, not US lead or US started.

Nations who have committed forces:
Albania
Australia
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
Denmark
France
Greece
Italy
Jordan
Netherlands
Norway
Qatar
Romania
Spain
Sweden
Turkey, yes Turkey have committed ships and F-16s.
United Arab Emirates
UK
US

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by wonderworld

 

My point is, we shouldnt wait until Gaddafi falls and the Libya the majority of the people there want is destroyed. We should demand an end to it now.

Everytime someone uses this song..I don't believe any of it.Sorry but this thing is so overdone.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


You keep saying it's only a tiny minority, but this is based on what? The only real support Gaddafi can conjure is in Triploli and that only appears to be small crowds which gather at his behest when he needs a photo op. Given the level of oppression (scholls and workplaces all have their informants, kids encouraged to inform on their parents conversations at home etc) it isn't surprising that the majority of Triploi's residents are keeping their heads down. That doesn't mean they support Gaddhafi.

Conversely, whenever a town gets taken by the rebels, we see corwds in their hundreds or thousands celebrating. Why is this, if the rebels are only a "tiny minority"?

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Really? That list seems wrong the only countries bombing libya is italy, britian, french.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Thank you for answering my question, no had had replied but you that The first aircraft in were European, 19 French fighter jets. I knew it was France just not sure about which plane got the compound. Do you know which?

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

You keep saying it's only a tiny minority, but this is based on what? The only real support Gaddafi can conjure is in Triploli and that only appears to be small crowds which gather at his behest when he needs a photo op. Given the level of oppression (scholls and workplaces all have their informants, kids encouraged to inform on their parents conversations at home etc) it isn't surprising that the majority of Triploi's residents are keeping their heads down. That doesn't mean they support Gaddhafi.

Conversely, whenever a town gets taken by the rebels, we see corwds in their hundreds or thousands celebrating. Why is this, if the rebels are only a "tiny minority"?

Libya is a nation of 6 Million people rebels estimated? up to 5K

Conversely, whenever a town gets taken by the rebels, we see corwds in their hundreds or thousands celebrating. Why is this, if the rebels are only a "tiny minority"?

Thats called staging a victory, a clear psyops

Isn't that what western news media wants you to see??
www.youtube.com...

Remember the toppling of saddam statue?

reply to post by wonderworld


The French dropped the first bomb but the US has done more strike sorties than any other country. Even though it is nato, it is still a US led nato. How can you say differently when it's the US doing the majority of the bombing. Something like 40% of all air missions I believe

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Exactly I remember hearing on numerous occasions the rebels are outnumbered 10 to 1. Well Libya has something like 50,000 troops and a population of 6.5 million. So yes around 5k is what they were estimating their number as. How can anyone say this is a majority when it may be the smallest minority in the entire country. This isn't even a war look at how many die each day. I regret all loss of life but I don't recall one day where a hundred or so people were killed. Those would be the kind of numbers we would expect if this was as big as the media is trying to portray it

Originally posted by Jobeycool

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by wonderworld

 

My point is, we shouldnt wait until Gaddafi falls and the Libya the majority of the people there want is destroyed. We should demand an end to it now.

Everytime someone uses this song..I don't believe any of it.Sorry but this thing is so overdone.

thats so typical you dont and wont because of a little song?

You saw the video clips of the so called opposition, there estimated is only in a thousands, yet libya is a nation of 6 million people.

This is my first post, so excuse me if I fault in anyway - I am a long time reader of the forum and finally decided to join, it is a great place and has indeed expanded my horizons especially in respect to US politics which greatly interest me although I am from the UK specifically - therefore naturally my take on this topic may be less well informed than US members so I apologise for any error.

With that said, I am ever leaning towards the suggestion that Lybia is another phase of american colonialism and a perpetuation of their history since the end of the two world wars when they became an economic superpower. If you look at the past it seems Lybia may not be a far cry from previous 'humanitarian' efforts by the american war machine. Initially I was unsure as to the nature of the invasion, considering if the claims of Gadaffi being a murderous tyrant were true then something should be done - although history suggests that intervention often causes more problems in such cases, for example Kosovo which resulted in increased violations post 'intervention'. American neo-coloniolism is no secret and I think we can make parallells with american actions in the Latin Americas, in which there were efforts of economic nationalism by countries such as Cuba and Nicaragua which upset private interests and thus resulted in unrelenting assaults of sponsored terrorism and sabotage by the american government. If we focus on Cuba specifically, many plans were drawn up to highlight them as a threat by the US gov. including blowing up a ship in Guantanamo bay and blaming it on Cuba, or humanitarian atrocities that would warrant an invasion. Additionally attempting to instigate pro-US revolutions in Latin American countries further suggests the nature of Lybia. Thus I am sceptical to the nature of the claims against gadaffi, as washington is often found to have created reasons for invasion and I would not be surprised if this was the case in Lybia as it was in places like Iraq and the aforementioned countries.

It astounds me that the US have the mentality that what they do is unquestionable (in respect to war crimes, humanitarian violations etc.) however they can justify the invasion of other countries for such reasons, such as the bombing of Panama, the casting of Nicaragua into economic despair or even the atrocities committed in Vietnam and the resulting deaths of many many more than the all the "atrocities" they (including UK, I have no favor for my own government) use to invade countries combined. Iraq and Afghanistan are obvious examples, as when the pretexts of invasion collapsed and we still retain military presence, clearly suggests the TRUE intentions of our presence. Therefore ultimately I am obviously highly unsure of the methods the US and its allies have used as they have such a terrible record in the past I would not be surprised if this was another file in what I imagine is a never ending room of similar events. I believe we are at the begging of a long line of wars in the middle east based on 'humanitarian intervention', as it is the most effective way to sell the war to an increasingly sceptical public (after the WMD sham of iraq and the resulting failures there). The Orwellian "War is Peace" seems ever applicable in human history and future. Hope you like my first contribution to this great site, peace x

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Really? That list seems wrong

the only countries bombing libya is italy, britian, french.

Each one of those nations have committed ships and/or aircraft. Not all are bombing some are escorting humanitarian aid flights, performing recon, etc.

Nowegian, as in Norway, fighter jets were the ones who bombed Gaddafi's compound a few days ago.
Norway, Denmark, and Canada have been quite active in the aerial campaign. Belgium, Greece, Jordan, Netherlands, Qatar, Spain, Sweden, and the UAE all have committed fighter aircraft as part of Operation Unified Protector.

reply to post by stumason


Hey stu I'm not sure if you have seen my reply to your comment but I'm waiting for your reply. You seem to be one of the more vocal in terms of supporting the rebels. I would like to see what your response to my comment is. Here it is below in case you missed it.

I just have a heard time believing that these are citizens rising up. I believe Egypt and Tunisia were real but I don't buy the Libyan conflct. Even if he was a mercenary I could see the anger of killing him if this was a democratic movement. But beheading the guy and using his head as a trophy, waving it around to a cheering crowd just speaks terrorists to me. You seem to have a good knowledge of events in Libya so i'm sure you know that eastern Libya is an al qeada breeding ground, particularily Benghazi(which is the rebel stronghold). Around 25% of foreign fighters in Iraq come from there, more than any other foreign country. I'm not claiming Ghaddafi is a saint but I think that he is most likely a better leader than anyone the rebels would install. If the rebels win, mark my words Libya will become another Somalia and the people will have a much poorer standard of living than they had under ghaddafi. I mean they have free education,(even overseas the government will pay, no tuition fees)universal healthcare and if a Libyan is injured overseas requiring surgery the government will pay for it, subsidized housing, interest free housing loans, if a Libyan is trying to start their own business they are given a one time payment of $20,000 to help them which doesn't have to be paid back. Ghaddafi stated after completing the great manmade river project that american threats towards Libya would double after it's completion which was in September 2010 I believe. I am aware of the public executions and don't agree with them but do we know what they were charged with..were they terrorists maybe? I also find it strange the rebels had nato weapons from day one even though they claimed they were poorly equipped and had no weapons. Also note the Libyan army does not carry the weapons they have due to sanctions so how did they get them?

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

You keep saying it's only a tiny minority, but this is based on what? The only real support Gaddafi can conjure is in Triploli and that only appears to be small crowds which gather at his behest when he needs a photo op. Given the level of oppression (scholls and workplaces all have their informants, kids encouraged to inform on their parents conversations at home etc) it isn't surprising that the majority of Triploi's residents are keeping their heads down. That doesn't mean they support Gaddhafi.

Conversely, whenever a town gets taken by the rebels, we see corwds in their hundreds or thousands celebrating. Why is this, if the rebels are only a "tiny minority"?

It would be nice to have a full head count of how many actually support Gaddafi, in Libya. It is crucial in determining if the Rebels are actually Insurgents. They fit the profile. There are just too many “what if’s” going on. Whether they supported him or not I’m guessing they don’t like the change, especially being bombarded with civilian casualties on both sides. Since we cant give them lethal weapons to fight with I suspect ground forces are necessary but then again who will that be? It's hard to imagine France.

reply to post by Jobeycool


Ididnt make the video, or choose the song. If you want to ignore all the articles, and the dates on those articles, that video shows, and all the pictures you have not seen in the MSM, good for you.

Why are you telling me? Do you want a cookie?

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Thank you for answering my question, no had had replied but you that The first aircraft in were European, 19 French fighter jets. I knew it was France just not sure about which plane got the compound. Do you know which?

The first time it was Norwegian F-16s.

I have yet to hear who hit Gaddafi's son's house. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were Italian.

reply to post by wonderworld


Look at the pictures of the supporters, and the pictures of the rebels. And count them.

reply to post by stumason


Right. So explain to me how a very unpopular leader is managing to last this long with a majority of his people and the allied "West" against him?

And why has his army not turned on him? Are they not people too? The Egyptian army sure wasted no time turning on Mubarak and supporting the rebels.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter


thats so typical you dont and wont because of a little song?

There is a volume control on virtually all YouTube videos also. If someone just didnt like the song, but was willing to look at the information, they could kill the volume. The informational content of the video is all in text. Not spoken.

Some people simply dont want to see anything that might make them have to reconsider. Not change their mind, perhaps, but at least reconsider what they have been told.