Nato strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Libya is a nation of 6 Million people rebels estimated? up to 5K

Really? Because the info I have is a rebel Army of around 20,000 Volunteers with around 1,000 having gone through some form of basic training.

Gaddafi can sum up about the same strength of force, although with better equipment and they are, for the most part, foreign merc's backed up by a couple of "elite" brigades commanded by his sons, also made up largely of foreign fighters.

If Gaddafi has as much support as you claim, why has he not got a million man army from Triploi and crushed the rebels? He claimed weeks ago he would open the arsenals and arm people willing to fight, yet he still can't even take Misrata.

Speaks volumes.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Remember the toppling of saddam statue?

edit on 1-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Yep and depending on where the camera placed, you get the impression of a huge crowd or just a large one. Either way, there will still a shedload of people in the square that day.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Libya is a nation of 6 Million people rebels estimated? up to 5K

Really? Because the info I have is a rebel Army of around 20,000 Volunteers with around 1,000 having gone through some form of basic training.

Link?

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
reply to post by wonderworld

 

The French dropped the first bomb but the US has done more strike sorties than any other country. Even though it is nato, it is still a US led nato. How can you say differently when it's the US doing the majority of the bombing. Something like 40% of all air missions I believe

If you look at whose doing most of the current strikes its EU countries. Between 19 March and 31 March we flew most of the sorties, but after March 31st, when US command submitted to NATO authority, the Europeans took front and center. Since April 4th, US fighters have been in a reserve role only.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

Why are you telling me? Do you want a cookie?

I'm sorry to laugh but you have a way of getting a point across, without getting too upset.

reply to post by Canadianpride420


Sorry, I couldn't read your post as it was a large block of text. I am not very good at reading stuff if it isn't broken down into paragraphs, my apologies.

That said, I have tried to read what you have said and I do think I have covered off most points previously. If you would care to break your post down, if you feel you want me to answer, I would be happy to oblige a response.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


A lot of those US strike sorties may be UAV drones as well (only recently I guess, from what I read), that do not often go into populated areas which have air defenses.

I live on the naval base/air station NATO is using out of Italy and I have one question if someone can please clear up for me - has he declared war on Italy simply because they joined NATO forces in their attacks on him or because they are flying out of here... I know this may sound ditzy but my energy lies elsewhere than searching for answers right now.
My skin crawls every time I hear a jet taking off after hearing his son and grandchildren were killed, and it is very often - the airstrip is literally 500km away from where I am right now.
From what I have read the Italian authorities are not taking him seriously, almost mocking/instigating? and so I, and other dependants of the US Military here, are a little worried to say the least

reply to post by RSF77


I don't know about that.

Drones have a vey limited payload and we don't have many deployed over Libya yet. I suspect the numbers come from the period of 19 March and 31 March, when we dropped most of the ordinance.

Originally posted by thefirstrasta
With that said, I am ever leaning towards the suggestion that Lybia is another phase of american colonialism and a perpetuation of their history since the end of the two world wars when they became an economic superpower.

Except for this.

www.thesun.co.uk...

BRITAIN and France last night challenged the United Nations to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya in a last-ditch bid to save the rebellion.

They tabled a resolution calling on the world to enforce an arms embargo against Colonel Gaddafi's bloody regime, and "take all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

The move is designed to force America, China and Russia to make their minds up on how to deal with the tyrant.

Lets not overlook facts. There is no reason for Americans to be more knowledgeable about this topic than someone from the UK. The UK was one of the nations critical to its occurrance.

Although, I will let you in on a secret. Its really not about ANY nation, but the wealthy economic interests who pull the strings of the politicians in MANY nations, absolutely including the US. These wars dont benefit the people of France, or Britain, or the US. This is how international bankers and corporatists get the little people to pay the bill for their expansion and grab for resources and power.

They buy your politicians and media, and they sell you a load of crap about how you are "saving" someone, or "helping" someone. And the only "helping" going on is these economic interests helping themselves to your tax dollars and the resources of the people they are telling YOU they are helping.

Welcome to ATS, btw. Good to have you on board.

reply to post by stumason


wow you can't read it because it's not in paragraphs. lmfao what a joke. Why don't you just say, "I have nothing to say to that." With that response I don't take you seriously at all and have to tell myself you aren't open to ideas that argue your line of thinking. Isn't this websites motto deny ignorance???

I just have a heard time believing that these are citizens rising up. I believe Egypt and Tunisia were real but I don't buy the Libyan conflct. Even if he was a mercenary I could see the anger of killing him if this was a democratic movement. But beheading the guy and using his head as a trophy, waving it around to a cheering crowd just speaks terrorists to me. You seem to have a good knowledge of events in Libya so i'm sure you know that eastern Libya is an al qeada breeding ground, particularily Benghazi(which is the rebel stronghold). Around 25% of foreign fighters in Iraq come from there, more than any other foreign country.

I'm not claiming Ghaddafi is a saint but I think that he is most likely a better leader than anyone the rebels would install. If the rebels win, mark my words Libya will become another Somalia and the people will have a much poorer standard of living than they had under ghaddafi. I mean they have free education,(even overseas the government will pay, no tuition fees)universal healthcare and if a Libyan is injured overseas requiring surgery the government will pay for it, subsidized housing, interest free housing loans, if a Libyan is trying to start their own business they are given a one time payment of $20,000 to help them which doesn't have to be paid back. Ghaddafi stated after completing the great manmade river project that american threats towards Libya would double after it's completion which was in September 2010 I believe.

I am aware of the public executions and don't agree with them but do we know what they were charged with..were they terrorists maybe? I also find it strange the rebels had nato weapons from day one even though they claimed they were poorly equipped and had no weapons. Also note the Libyan army does not carry the weapons they have due to sanctions so how did they get them?

(there you go, cannot believe I had to do that)

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
reply to post by mrjones7885

 

Exactly and if your a citizen in Libya you get some of the proft deposited in your bank account. My country sure as heck doesn't do that

I believe if your a newly married couple you get 50,000, everyone gets free education and free healthcare... Wow whats our country missing out on?! Oil companies wanna take it out of Gaddafi's hands and privatize it so they make more money. And they will because of the "Humanitarian" issues

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

I have yet to hear who hit Gaddafi's son's house. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were Italian.

It sure looks like the people of Libya are unhappy with two nations in particular.

www.washingtonpost.com... 5/01/AFVqZjTF_story.html

TRIPOLI, Libya— The British and Italian embassies were attacked and damaged by angry mobs in the Libyan capital Sunday, hours after a NATO airstrike was reported to have killed one of Moammar Gaddafi’s sons and three of his grandchildren.

Britain responded to the attack on its embassy and ambassador’s residence by expelling the Libyan ambassador to London. The United Nations announced it was withdrawing its international staff from Tripoli.

Maybe they know something we dont.

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

A lot of those US strike sorties may be UAV drones as well (only recently I guess, from what I read), that do not often go into populated areas which have air defenses.

Yes, I temporarily forgot about the drones but I dont imagine they can take out an entire compound. It sounds more like a SAM mission.

I think Gaddafi’s biggest mistake in recent weeks was censorship and blocking of communications. This would make me revolt and grab my gun.

We should have stopped and continued to refer the actions of the government to the International Criminal Court for investigation.

They claim that Gaddafi did not follow his order to ceasefire. It could have been a couple gunman that acted alone. I don’t condone repression but no one is shooting us straight on this. This is why we all have our own opinions.

What happened to transparency, not meaning I want “classified” war documents but give us some numbers, some credible facts to make our judgments on. There will be more deaths. Special interests prevail here.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I apoligize, I haven't seen any updated strike sorties since they were last revealed that the US was doing the majority. I'll have to find a more recent update on that. Thank you for correcting me I'm all about gettng a better idea of this whole Libya situation

reply to post by MikeboydUS


(today) Norwegian Minister of defense Grete Faremo: "NATO has flown just over four thousand quests and 1750 before the weekend was against ground targets. Norway has flown 266 of these, and we have also released a little more than 240 bombs."

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Ah yea I think your right. Just throwing it out there, the US runs so many drones and it seems like 75% of them don't even fire a shot.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Until NATO says who dropped the bomb, I highly doubt Gaddafi would know who flew the planes that dropped the bomb on his son's house. There is no guarantee it was Italian or British jets.

I would not be surprised if it was Italy responding to Gaddafi, but I also have a gut feeling it was one of those Viking nations at it again. (Norway, Sweden, or Denmark)

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

Until NATO says who dropped the bomb, I highly doubt Gaddafi would know who flew the planes that dropped the bomb on his son's house. There is no guarantee it was Italian or British jets.

I would not be surprised if it was Italy responding to Gaddafi, but I also have a gut feeling it was one of those Viking nations at it again. (Norway, Sweden, or Denmark)

I have this need to know if it was a white warplane.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
reply to post by stumason

 

wow you can't read it because it's not in paragraphs. lmfao what a joke.

It likely wouldnt make a difference. Mind firmly closed.

Some cant turn down the volume of a song they dont like, some wont read long posts, some wont read posts spaced in ways they do not like. The bottom line is, some people do not really want to look at evidence that does not support their theory. Even though SOME of those same people complain loudly that no one will look at theirs. Even when people do, and just do not find that their evidence supports their claims.

For some people, its not about being on the SIDE of right, its about being right themselves. And no evidence can sway you from that position.

There are still people convinced that the war in Iraq was justified. And clearly, it wasnt.

www.youtube.com...

Heres a video above showing how the rebels have had nato weapons from day one. Weapons that the Libyan army does not have. They are also brand new