Obama's NEW Birth Certificate proven to be fake hours after release

reply to post by mudbeed


But if you were trying to debunk the whole subject, wouldn't you make sure that the "evidence" your presenting as proof is "INDISPUTABLE"? With out a chance of someone finding flaw? Oh right it was done on purpose if you ask the Kings followers.

Sorry guys (Truthers/Birthers), you had me at layers, but a little investigation shows that this is standard behavior for programs such as these.

It's been fun and it's been debunked in a reasonable fashion.

Case closed for now until you have another thing to bring up (which should be a separate post)

Originally posted by xyankee
reply to post by mudbeed

 

But if you were trying to debunk the whole subject, wouldn't you make sure that the "evidence" your presenting as proof is "INDISPUTABLE"? With out a chance of someone finding flaw? Oh right it was done on purpose if you ask the Kings followers.

Whole subject being what? The layers? This was proven to be normal behavior of both scanning programs and Adobe Illustrator wasn't it?

Hell I would be the first to give props to folks if they did find something.

It was interesting enough to keep me involved and we all did our job as ATSers didn't we?

Sorry you didn't like the outcome, but that is how these things go sometimes.

I am seeing the birthers transform in front of me. its pretty interesting overall...its like a word salad of anything imaginable instantly tossed up, glitchy software from 2011 trying to explain a 2001 ocr issue with illustrator, language, social security numbers, etc...
aka
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ef4f05d351c5.jpg[/atsimg]

I think we all need a time out...birthers goto your corner, do some research and find lets say, 3 solid arguments..put it foward, then wait for research to be done

Do you think the average joe knows about the issues in opening up pdf's in illustrator? Is it important they do not know of this issue in order to believe?

And non-birthers (lets call you "reasonables"). Although this may seem like just the dying breath of a movement, lets actually hear whats being said verses just roll the eyes and dismiss...as usual, we have to do the research for them, but the reason we are the reasonables is because we will do the research, find the truth, then present it with sources and experiments to back up our words (so they can be ignored of course, but whatever).

But ya, lets stop with the chewbacca defense and state solid questions that take more than a 45 second google search to be answered.

Originally posted by micpsi

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ken10
Seen this question posted elsewhere....

The BC lists obama's mums race as "Caucasian" But lists his dads race as "African"......Is African a race ?....Surely it would be Negroid, No ? ............Especially in 1961.

The clerk fills out what the parent tells them.

Exactly. That's why we cannot assume that the information on this Certificate of Live Birth is accurate......

What? Not sure what you mean.

If Obama's father chose to identify himself as African - - then that is what the clerk typed.

On my birth cert my surname is spelled wrong. Bummer my parents didn't check. I later corrected it - - using a cemetery grave stone marker. Seriously.

Originally posted by Schkeptick
This thread is BOGUS.

I opened up Illustrator and the long-form & found what OP mentioned.

Then I opened a random PDF I had created myself - which I knew was from a single image.

Illustrator randomly broke down my single image into different parts, which I could easily select and hide from view, as he has done here. My single image was broken into at least FIFTY parts - BY THE PROGRAM. I opened up several different PDF files to confirm - and every single one did the exact same thing.

This is something that Illustrator does for editing purposes. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the birth certificate itself.

This is a screenshot of what the long-form b.c. looks like when I open it in Illustrator (I trimmed both images or else they would be too big):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1d6d9a80cc67.gif[/atsimg]

And here is my random PDF file:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d315facbf18a.gif[/atsimg]

I *know* that my file is a single page of text, but Illustrator breaks it down into many, many pieces. The only reason my document is broken down into text pieces & the b.c. shows "clipping paths" is that Illustrator doesn't recognize the old typewriter as any known font.

I hope the OP just doesn't really understand his program and is not intentionally pulling a hoax on ATS.

Brought forward for "truthiness"

I want to know which is more logical.

That this "all seeing power" that we "have" in America has the power to rig elections, to rig congress, to rig big business. This same "power" is able to insert a CIA(?) operative, one that has been trained since birth, to be the President. Then, after 3 years of this argument, finally decides to put an end to this and release the ONE DOCUMENT that would have solved this 3 years ago. And they screw up and don't make it one "flat" piece, knowing full well that pseudo forensic people on the internet would scrutinise it's every ink stroke.

OR

They rushed this document knowing full well that pseudo forensic people on the internet would scrutinise it's every ink stroke.

Which is more logical. Which one would make more sense. Seriously.

I think his Administration was making him sit on this so it would distract. Everyone saw how just plain annoyed he was when asked about this issue. Not like "not this again" but "seriously guys...drop it you're acting crazy"

There has been a very logical explanation put forth by Adobe earlier in the thread, correct? Something others have experienced and posted about. Add to that a member provided the same results with a different document.

That, and there are two layers, why would the imprint on the bottom one match the top one? ie, Why when you move the words are the white spaces perfect for those words? Why wouldn't the white space be different?

I really think this is easily explained by a malfunction in the program.

reply to post by micpsi


Sorry to reply to both posts..

But if there are only 3 races, Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoloid, Then surely a clerk would know which to apply, especially after writing Obama's Mums correctly, I mean you can get white Africans can't you ? ...Which would still be Caucasian !!!

Heh - It stands that if all you do is tell lies, hide things and ridicule people who don't believe you because you have a history of telling nothing but lies - like Obama, when you do have something to show - you still have to overcome a long and sordid history as a freakin' liar.

There's virtually nothing this administration does that can be considered honest.

Originally posted by Rising Against
So people continually ask for the Obama Birth certificate and then when It's produced, It's still rejected.

Sigh.

Perhaps if they released something genuine and not doctored, and not spend 5 million hiding it, only to come out and release it now for some hoped for political gain..
If this was the real McCoy and they had it all this time, then why spend 5MILLION dollars keeping it out of public view, and now release it?

I remember during the bush years that whenever someone criticized G. Bush the republicans would defend him no matter what, for the sole reason that he was their "man"

People did the same thing for clinton's and people are still doing it for Obama, it's natural instinct to "refuse" to believe anything bad about "your" guy and seems like tons of people always do this.

How much damage and destruction does someone have to do against you and your country before you wake up and see that "your" guy is not, and never really was on your side in the first place?

Every person on the planet should ask themselves this so as not to be deceived by those who are supposedly on your side, but actually are not.

Regardless if you are a democrat or a republican, or whatever else..

Remember: "To thine own self be true" (Even when your hero turns out to be a fraud)

To come out now with this (patched together with Illustrator and other office equipment) obvious fake birth certificate.. boggles the minds of many..

Time to move on to the next conspiracy, cause God knows there is always going to be another.

Interesting investigation, but...

t

Originally posted by USXpat
Heh - It stands that if all you do is tell lies, hide things and ridicule people who don't believe you because you have a history of telling nothing but lies - like Obama, when you do have something to show - you still have to overcome a long and sordid history as a freakin' liar.

There's virtually nothing this administration does that can be considered honest.

Sounds like Bush's Admin too, or how about Clinton who got oral sex? Or How about Reagan and the Iran/Contra dealio? Or how about.... Oh wait....

You are just talking to talk and you aren't adding anything.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Schkeptick
This thread is BOGUS.

I opened up Illustrator and the long-form & found what OP mentioned.

Then I opened a random PDF I had created myself - which I knew was from a single image.

Illustrator randomly broke down my single image into different parts, which I could easily select and hide from view, as he has done here. My single image was broken into at least FIFTY parts - BY THE PROGRAM. I opened up several different PDF files to confirm - and every single one did the exact same thing.

This is something that Illustrator does for editing purposes. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the birth certificate itself.

This is a screenshot of what the long-form b.c. looks like when I open it in Illustrator (I trimmed both images or else they would be too big):



I *know* that my file is a single page of text, but Illustrator breaks it down into many, many pieces. The only reason my document is broken down into text pieces & the b.c. shows "clipping paths" is that Illustrator doesn't recognize the old typewriter as any known font.

I hope the OP just doesn't really understand his program and is not intentionally pulling a hoax on ATS.

Brought forward for "truthiness"

So the program knew to separate 90% of the text of the document from the background containing 3 different signatures of the mother / registrar / and doctor ? By god thats amazing! Also, if you notice your two screenshots. The birth cert has "Groups" Clipping Paths with Masks whereas you have "layers of text". Two different things sir. Also look at the groups of the birth cert, underneath each contains the word IMAGE which relates to the IMAGES within that group, whereas again your posting text from a "random document". Again, oranges and apples.

So basically what we have learned is this....

Some experts say that this is absolutely fake and there are layers.
Other experts say that this is absolutely legit and there are no layers.

*experts=those who claim to use the software and know it inside and out

Goes to show that no matter what the issue is......there will always be two sides to it and enough blah blah blah to back up the side. Google can produce enough "evidence" to back up any side. Experts cannot even agree on anything.

So we are back to square one. Who gives a crap. Does not matter. Never will.

2012!!!

lol

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


I'm actually with the "they put this out for a distraction" camp. Just because as it was mentioned in an earlier post, they haven't raised the debt ceiling, congress decided to take off for 2 weeks, and Obama is out fund raising for his campaign run in 2012.

Convenient time to put this forward while everything else is going to hell. I also think they put this forward because like most American's it isn't so much if he is Natural Born or Naturalized anymore it's more of a question of how can we get this guy out office. So naturally people are grasping on to any argument they can in order to get Obama out of office just like people did with Bush.

It actually all makes sense for the admin to keep putting it off for years and years and years and then now as it seems the Fed is running out of its parlor tricks to keep the economy from imploding. It almost all seems planned in the grand scheme of things.

I'm anxious to see the countries reaction we the politicians go on TV and start trying to tell us that government buildings and federal property is being sold to China to get us out of debt with China.

Also edit to add:

I will state again that I have been proven wrong, although with sketchy evidence, I will do as I said and say that Obama has put forth evidence proving he was born in Hawaii, proving me wrong.

Originally posted by Rising Against
So people continually ask for the Obama Birth certificate and then when It's produced, It's still rejected.

Sigh.

Why did it take so long in the first place??!?!?!?!?

In my mind someone who goes out of their way to not show it, then suddenly provides it and acts like we're the crazy ones for even wondering why, is more suspicious to me than anything else.

Of course the MSM was already prepped to humiliate any one who dares ask basic questions, i heard more than one commentator today state, "well you know as soon as he shows it, those crazy birthers are going to say its a fake. These types of lunatics will never just admit they were wrong."

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by micpsi

 

Sorry to reply to both posts..

But if there are only 3 races, Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoloid, Then surely a clerk would know which to apply, especially after writing Obama's Mums correctly, I mean you can get white Africans can't you ? ...Which would still be Caucasian !!!

edit on 27-4-2011 by ken10 because: (no reason given)

Good point.

On another note....I think it's crazy that Obama refered to people questioning his birth certificate a carnival side show trying to make anyone who questions him seem nuts. Very telling.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
So basically what we have learned is this....

Some experts say that this is absolutely fake and there are layers.
Other experts say that this is absolutely legit and there are no layers.

*experts=those who claim to use the software and know it inside and out

Goes to show that no matter what the issue is......there will always be two sides to it and enough blah blah blah to back up the side. Google can produce enough "evidence" to back up any side. Experts cannot even agree on anything.

So we are back to square one. Who gives a crap. Does not matter. Never will.

2012!!!

lol

2012, thats another thread. lol.

Originally posted by prizim
The problem here is that you do not know how a scanner works.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

It comes down to this...

Once you create a PDF, you can't take apart layers...which you'd have to do in order to prove it's fake. All the "investigator" did was select random bits and claim it's been put together.

Illustrator creates RANDOM layers to allow editing...the PDF itself doesn't contain layers. But who cares about facts, right?

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
So basically what we have learned is this....

Some experts say that this is absolutely fake and there are layers.
Other experts say that this is absolutely legit and there are no layers.

*experts=those who claim to use the software and know it inside and out

Goes to show that no matter what the issue is......there will always be two sides to it and enough blah blah blah to back up the side. Google can produce enough "evidence" to back up any side. Experts cannot even agree on anything.

So we are back to square one. Who gives a crap. Does not matter. Never will.

2012!!!

lol

Hense why I go with actual experts verses internet experts:
__________
From the source several weeks ago:

On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated ...



Adobe Illustrator is not, repeat not, and repeat yet once again not a general purpose PDF file editor. Opening any arbitrary PDF file in Adobe Illustrator other than PDF files saved in that version of later of Adobe Illustrator with the editability option (which saves the Illustrator document editing data as private data within the PDF file) may result in content loss or corruption.

___

PDF layers are part of an overall feature known as optional content in PDF and are conceptually very different than Illustrator layers. Since PDF optional content features in general are very much a superset of Illustrator layers (PDFMaker for PowerPoint uses optional content to handle certain slide build features, for example), there would be no easy way for Illustrator to readily pick and choose what optional content features to support and translate. As such, don't expect this to be "rectified" in any way in future Illustrator releases.



(To make things even more interesting, both PDF and Illustrator layers are very different than Photoshop layers which allow for defined interactions between layers such as masking!)

Dov Isaacs

From the adobe forums.
Basically, scanning in PDF = immediate wonkification and pseudo-layers if opened in illustrator if I am grasping what this is saying.

Which means the whole open in illustrator or use illustrator in general at any step of the process = wonkyness abound.

Take it for what you will.

add: Source of that clip