The Roman Empire Collapsed Under the Weight of Illegal Immigration and Welfare...

Originally posted by fredvcall
reply to post by Section31

 

You spent four years of college majoring in art appreciation?

No. I spent years in college to become a graphic designer and psychology freak. Art History courses were a requirement. Do you want to know about Buddhism, and how it was used in art and Asian society? How about Renaissance and Medieval art, and how Christianity and philosophy changed Europe? I can have a deep conversation about it all. How about symbolisim in religious materials, architecture, sculptures, and paintings? Post-modern? Etc...

Rome was also an overextended empire.

Calling barbarian hordes "illegal immigrants" is like calling Iraqi's illegal as well. These barbarians were displaced people, indigenous people under Roman tyranny, or opportunistic people taking advantage of the overextended military.

Any way one looks at it, Rome and the USA have a lot in common and those which are their greatest weaknesses are a direct cause of their own policy.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


You know, I'm surprised you did not say something sarcastic about the History Channel.

reply to post by Section31


Sure. You want to talk Buddhism or any other subject, have at it. I'm always ready for some insight.

reply to post by Section31


Okay, symbolism in religious articles. What do you know about Ombra Sacra?

Originally posted by fredvcall
reply to post by Section31

 

Sure. You want to talk Buddhism or any other subject, have at it. I'm always ready for some insight.

Lol... You should say enlightenment.

Lol...

reply to post by Section31


What do you know about Ombra Sacra?

reply to post by fredvcall

You know, I'm surprised you did not say something sarcastic about the History Channel.

History Channel got you to think, though I do not agree with your conclusions. It did something at least. I wish history classes did at least that.

reply to post by fredvcall

It went both ways for the Romans. They tried welfare payments to get Attila to work for them. They tried welfare payments to get Attila to just leave them alone. Neither effort worked for the Romans. The more welfare the Romans paid Attila, the more Attila sacked, pillaged and plundered Roman goods.

You do realize there was no welfare back then do you not, in fact that is a big problem Rome had that lead to the city sacked and problems from people like Attila and his army among many others, who most were disfranchised former members of the legion's or merc's under the pay of Rome in there many former past conquests in there provinces.

In fact you could say that the opposite happened because ancient Rome did not have any system of welfare. Rome couldn't afford to deal with them or pay them and it became to big for it's breaches and ego. And so they turned on Rome eventually because they got a better deal elsewhere and under other banners, Attila being another banner as a leader and conqueror of a empire that Rome could not handle because of it's size and might, hence the bribes and tributes it pay'd to Attila.

And since your trying to tie this to what is happening today in America, well how about this. In fact you could say in troubling times such as depressions or dust bowls, one of the major reasons that america is not breaking up into little groups and infighting and all that stuff is because of welfare to at least tide over the populous and army personnel.

You know we wouldn't want no disfranchised large groups of people roaming around getting any strange ideas, now would we. I mean look at the big ruckus that happened when they were going to suspend pay for a little because congress were all talked out, and decided to take a break, and people might have to take a little pay cut, bet you the people didn't like that idea. So if anything if they would of had welfare back then in ancient Rome then Attila army's would of not gotten so big, and would of not been much of a problem for Rome to deal with.

And also Rome had many problems that lead to it's fall or as I like to say to it's downsizing and minimizing, other then it's disfranchised and rebellious provinces. And also Rome did not fall really, it just had to much to handle on it's place so it split and shrink'd and changed in its internal structure and external structure to suit the times and under different powers and banners, but it still existed in one form or another even to this day. In what world structure do you think you live in? When basically everything we do in our current civilization is molded and derived from ancient Rome.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Look. You liberals have three replies that are getting redundant.

There was no welfare. Yes, there was. I supplied articles stating as much. Nobody reads anything. Everyone is a drone repeating the same thing.

There was no illegal immigration. Yes, there was. I supplied articles, etc.

The third redundancy everyone is beating to death is that you don't like the History Channel. Other than that, nobody is saying anything to back their comments.

So, why don't you all just give it up and close this discussion. You've all gone around in circles going nowhere.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

You do realize there was no welfare back then do you not, in fact that is a big problem Rome had that lead to the city sacked and problems from people like Attila and his army among many others, who most were disfranchised former members of the legion's or merc's under the pay of Rome in there many former past conquests in there provinces.

Damm, all one sentence. Welfare has existed in many forms.... back then it was a bribe to ensure of the welfare of the Romans.

And since your trying to tie this to what is happening today in America, well how about this. In fact you could say in troubling times such as depressions or dust bowls, one of the major reasons that america is not breaking up into little groups and infighting and all that stuff is because of welfare to at least tide over the populous and army personnel.

Good point. Tyranny is a lot easier to pallet when one is being bribed to forget the problems caused by the tyrants.

So if anything if they would of had welfare back then in ancient Rome then Attila army's would of not gotten so big, and would of not been much of a problem for Rome to deal with.

I think you are making the opposite point you intended. From what I gather, you are saying welfare is good because it keeps people from revolting from tyranny.

I am saying welfare is bad because it keeps people from revolting from tyranny.

If welfare stifles man's will to be free, welfare is the enemy of man.

edit: I want to reiterate this point.... Rome's perceived immigration problem is a direct result of its rapid empire expansion, not with immigration itself. This is much like the illegal immigration crap in the US..... if it weren't for our overextension militarily, draconian legal system and the welfare state, immigration would be a non-issue.

Taking on the world, stretching a military too thin, allowing jobs to be outsourced, a dwindling middle-class, treating people of both domestic status and those who are foreign to the US with suspicion -- those are just a few of the reasons why the US is on the verge of collapse.

I'd say that immigration and welfare are one of the only ways to sustain the US from breaking out into anarchy. I would seriously love to see the reactions on the idiot's faces who want to take away a means to living a meager existence (IE welfare) from 10% or so of the US population and see what happens. Welfare is sustaining a lot of these people. Or what, do you want to cut them off and see how they fend for themselves... either that or do you want to watch them die?

People really need to think before they act.

Originally posted by fredvcall
reply to post by Section31

 

You spent four years of college majoring in art appreciation?

Is that somehow funny to you?

Are you fourteen years old?

Theres no reason to be a defensive prick. Why not listen to the educated, rather then dismissing them because they disagree?

You saw a History Network show, jumped to some false conclusions, and posted a thread about it. People make mistakes, but you have opened yourself to criticism.

just admit that theres more to the story and move on. If your looking for an excuse to rant about the immigration issue, this isnt it.

reply to post by SPACEYstranger


You're being redundant.....again.

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


Sorry. But anarchy is already here. The lamestream media is not telling you about it.

Originally posted by crichton13

PLEASE roll over and die America. ASAP......

Be careful what you wish for.
If the US rolls over and dies anytime soon.
The world will be in a crap hole no time flat.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


We haven't invaded Mexico in quite a while. Yet, all those illegals coming across the border? What gives with that?

I "love" how people go after poor people first as the downfall of a country, instead of wars costing trillions upon trillions of dollars, instead of the politicians who "lose" hundreds of billions of dollars into nowhere, the elite bankers who literally rob their life savings for trillions more dollars. No, it's the 88 billion a year that makes the lives of the the poorest souls in the country slightly less hopeless that is the downfall of everything. It would be better just to let them all die, right?

This is how the elite turn people against each other. Don't help the poor and disabled, just let them die and that will solve all your financial problems. There is no greater crime than keeping a disabled person off the street.

Oh but you weren't talking about THEM right? You are talking about the imaginary armies of drug addict welfare queens who deserve to die because they aren't as educated as you, because maybe they take a drug you don't approve of, or some other lifestyle choice you abhor. But hey, those bankers who rob you blind and the military industrial complex that murders countless people across the globe and steals countless trillions from the economy, they are doing the right thing. Yeah, it's those damn disabled people in poverty that are ruining your life.

If you actually think any of that, then you are a sad little person who is so desperate and full of powerless feelings that the only way you can puff up your chest is to imagine somebody who is a scumbucket of the earth and see yourself as better than them so that you may blame them for the world's problems, for your problems, and oppress them for it.

Get real, stop blaming the victims of this world infected and infested with greed and corruption and evil run amok and focus your anger where it truly deserves to be directed.

reply to post by shtf2012


America is not going to roll over and die because welfare liberal socialists want it that way. Welfare liberals socialists have no more power than maybe to throw a Molotov Cocktail or two. They'd be locked away in a FEMA camp forever, along with Bradley Manning, if they got out of hand. It's all talk.

reply to post by 0001391


Have you noticed that the majority of Americans are getting just real tired of hearing poor people whine?