The Roman Empire Collapsed Under the Weight of Illegal Immigration and Welfare...

Why is it so hard to admit someone else might know more then you, or have knowledge to add?

Pointing to a History Channel show is trivial

I wish the OP had done more homework before starting this thread and coming to the conclusion as he did by watching a History Channel program on Attila the Hun.

There are many books, documentaries, papers and discertations on the fall of the Roman Empire. The decline took well over a century and had many, many factors and reasons. One of the main reasons which most professors and experts have agreed on, is Christianity was definitely a main contributor to the fall of the empire.

The empire itself was made up of many different cultures and peoples to start off with.

reply to post by fredvcall


You really need to learn some better comparisons..

The majority of the Roman Empire was not even Roman.. Everywhere they conqured they gave the people a choice, be with us or not.. Those who would they would subsidize (welfare) IE alll of roam was welfare due to there conquring ways..

Dang Fredvcall taking a beating on this one.
I think the op's main sin was in the title of his thread.
Rome imploded for a number of reasons.
One thing i must point out that someone posted.
Atilla was afraid of Christianity.
Atilla was in no way afraid of Christianity.
He was paid off by the pope.
The only thing Atilla was afraid of was defeat and that didn't happen often.
Fred should have stated that the decline of Rome and the US are similar.
Assimilation of foreign peoples, corruption in government, Over extending itself, Inept leaders.
Loss of morals, influence of the millitary ... well we could go on forever.
But all civilizations fall for most of these reasons.
I would like to state that if you look at it the assimilation of some of the Germanic tribes.
It actually put off the inevitable decline of the western roman empire.
The Germans were awesome warriors and their inclusion into the army when the roman population
was on the decline helped a stem the tide for awhile.
All i can say is Fred a minor attempt at a major thread.
And the history channel mmmehhh!

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Wasn't christianity a major factor in the fall of the Roman empire ? ( I'm no historian ) Also The empire got split into two , an east and west version which created massive political and military problems. I've often thought they decided that the upkeep of the army was too costly and complicated and instead came up with The Roman catholic church. Much easier to control people via psychology than with an army.

My main point is that yes they fell but turned into something more insideous and possibly more powerfull - Catholicism's lasted longer than the Roman empire. Well done Constantine !

edit on 15-4-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: info added

In accordance with what you have said...you are on the right track. The Roman Empire never really did collapse...The Holy Roman Catholic Church IS the Roman Empire. By consolidating all duties, militaristic as well as governmental under the guise of the Catholic Church...the Roman Empire guaranteed it's self a permanent position in the world powers of then and now.

LOL...think about it...prreeety sneaky huh?....

ETA: did y'all know that the Catholic Church even carried out it's own executions?....The first being under Theodious I.
He was a "heretic" named Priscillian. The time frame around 380 AD.

en.wikipedia.org...

LMFAO - "I've been watching the History Channel"?

The history channel is levelled at about the intelligence height of a 7 year old - or, converted to Adults within the USA, about 50% of the population.

This post could not have come from ANY other country other than the USA.

A country that is in it's death throes and has been since about the mid 1970's.

PLEASE roll over and die America. ASAP......

(cue this post to appear for about 15 minutes then be removed/deleted by a pro-Yank Moderator thereby proving once again that ATS is managed by American republicans.)

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by DevilJin

Oh c'mon now. Do a little more research than that. The fall of the Roman empire is way more complex than "welfare and illegal immigration". I had to do a paper on it in college. You should go to a library and read up on it - the fall of the Roman Empire is very interesting.

Oh, so you watched the entire History Channel biography of Attila the Hun in...what....like three minutes?

And you're telling me to do more research?

Thanks. I needed that laugh.

Errrrm, you could do with a little research yourself. Are you calling the invading force of Attlia illegal immigration??? Don't you mean war? Did you really put that forward at college?????? Do you get all of your research via the TV?

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Wasn't christianity a major factor in the fall of the Roman empire ? ( I'm no historian ) Also The empire got split into two , an east and west version which created massive political and military problems. I've often thought they decided that the upkeep of the army was too costly and complicated and instead came up with The Roman catholic church. Much easier to control people via psychology than with an army.

My main point is that yes they fell but turned into something more insideous and possibly more powerfull - Catholicism's lasted longer than the Roman empire. Well done Constantine !

edit on 15-4-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: info added

Yes, the empire was split in two when Attila took Constantinople. It helps to have watched the History Channel biography.

Helps to go to the library mate, is all your research done via the TV? How can you compare a faith with the Roman Empire - that is like saying Persia didn't last as long as Islam - what is the point? If that is the crux of your college work all I can say is........ can I have fries with that?

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone

Roman Catholic church is the Roman Empire today!

Don't you remember back in the dark and middle ages it was illegal to speak out against the church. It still is today and who do you think the richest corporation in the world is as well as the most artifact rich.

I would even be willing to bet they are in fact NWO/Illuminati or whatever you want to call it.

Makes you wonder why in the bible jesus says "Why have you forsaken me father", as he was being crucified on the cross. My guess is that he was really the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra who swept him away to the Buddhist temples in Nepal until he was grown.

Roman Empire never died it just changed it's face/faith!

reply to post by fredvcall


YouTube: History Channel: Dark Ages
What caused the initial downfall of the Roman Empire was a tiny-tiny invasion by transients, lack of boarder control, the black plague, corrupt rulers, famine, and war. It was a combination of elements, which ended up trashing the entire culture. When the empire finally collapsed, the Catholic Church stepped in and helped rebuild society.

People don't want to hear this truth, but here goes...

Roman Empire (Key Events: First republic to exist, Invasion of Vikings/Norse, & Black Plague)

--- leads to ---

Knights & Christianity (Key Events: Renaissance, Crusades, Inquisition, & Reformation)

--- leads to ---

King George (Key Events: Rebellion & Treason: Revolution, Discovery of New World)

--- leads to ---

Independence of the United States

Even though many people will ignore history, the Catholic Church and early Christianity stitched the Roman Empire back together. Only for it to dissolve and fade into the background.

United States is becoming the new Rome Empire. If you look at all of our government architecture (banks, courts, White House, Lincoln memorial, etc...), you will notice they were designed as a nod to the Roman Pantheon. Our founding fathers built the United States in a manner, which reflects the successful elements of the Roman Empire.

Rome may have fallen, but now its being slowly rebuilt.

reply to post by fredvcall


I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I do believe that you just referred to the Hun invasion as an 'immigration,' and Rome's offering them concession payments to not be attacked as 'welfare.' Wow, maybe you should go look up the definitions of those words again... talk about stretching facts to fit your point of view..

In addition to your altering of the definition of words, if your going to post a claim like this, please do not just state that it happened around the same time, and thus it must have been the cause. If this was true than Polonius Maximus eating dinner around that time could have just as easily caused the downfall of the Roman Empire. You're claim ignores the multitudes of other factors that contributed to its collapse.


Edit: nvm, i see these points have already been made... wheeww

Originally posted by IncognitoGhostman
reply to post by Hopeforeveryone

 

Roman Catholic church is the Roman Empire today!

Don't you remember back in the dark and middle ages it was illegal to speak out against the church. It still is today and who do you think the richest corporation in the world is as well as the most artifact rich.

I would even be willing to bet they are in fact NWO/Illuminati or whatever you want to call it.

Makes you wonder why in the bible jesus says "Why have you forsaken me father", as he was being crucified on the cross. My guess is that he was really the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra who swept him away to the Buddhist temples in Nepal until he was grown.

Roman Empire never died it just changed it's face/faith!

Exactly what I posted...sad to see that not too many believe
what's right in front of them...hiding in plain sight.

Wait so... let me get this straight, you got all of this information just by watching one ... just one show?

...from the History Channel?



The Roman Empire fell because of corruption within the government and civil turmoil. The 'Barbarian' invasion added fuel to the already out of control fire.

No. History will repeat because we don't learn. The idea is to have every country eventually collapse so one influence can be driven over all.

reply to post by something wicked


I suppose all of you are suggesting going to the library because all of you are already at the library?

reply to post by Tiste


I like your use of the word 'homework.' Has the feeling of, oh, I don't know...the prom?

Originally posted by anon102
Wait so... let me get this straight, you got all of this information just by watching one ... just one show?

...from the History Channel?

The Roman Empire fell because of corruption within the government and civil turmoil. The 'Barbarian' invasion added fuel to the already out of control fire.

Me? No. While I was attending college for my main degree, I was required to take around 13 courses in Art History. Outside of my graphic design background, I have been trained in understanding the psychology of art movements through social constructs. Technically, I can go into an art museum, look at art pieces, tell you the art movement, tell you its creator, tell you the art techniques used, tell you when it was made, tell you what the individual was thinking, and what was affecting society at the time. Its crazy. I do it automatically now.

reply to post by anon102


It's pretty amazing what can be accomplished by paying attention.

reply to post by Section31


You spent four years of college majoring in art appreciation?

Originally posted by IncognitoGhostman
reply to post by Hopeforeveryone

 

Roman Catholic church is the Roman Empire today!


Roman Empire never died it just changed it's face/faith!

So, the question begs: what change does America take? Who takes over? One thing for sure, it won't be those on welfare.