French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by Annee

 

The fear of criminality was the fear I was referring to, I have no such fear therefor don't call for a ban on face covering and I try to argue against those that make such a call, my prerogative.

Yeah - your prerogative. You can think it is about fear all you want. I don't see it that way.

I suppose - - I could even take the position that covering your face in public infringes on the rights of others.

But fear? No - - that's how you see it.

It all, really and truly, boils down to...

Respect the laws and customs of where you live.
If you don't like them, move.
If you still don't like them, deal with it.

Originally posted by Annee

I suppose - - I could even take the position that covering your face in public infringes on the rights of others.

I can see how you could take that position but I can't see how it has merit, what rights of others are infringed.

Originally posted by marinesniper0351
reply to post by wingsfan

 

Amen to your comments, I have told my own family members if you dislike it here is the US so much and you are always praising your country of birth like Iran, than I see no reason why you should not move back...?

Then they change the content to well America is the land of the free etc...and detract from why they left their wonderful country to begin with.

Blend in, enjoy a different culture...I am Muslim/Persian/American and speak English, Farsi, Spanish and some Portuguese...

yup, you sound and think like an american, no matter what your cultural heritage is, and that is what this country is about. good post.

reply to post by Dreine


The French people did not invite muslims into France

that was the work of politicians, so called

Muslims didn't give a damn how the French population felt about the imposition of tens of thousands of muslims. Instead, muslims said, in effect, ' You don't like it, too bad. We're here. Your government brought us here. Tough about your French traditions and culture. Yes. You're losing all that. We're imposing our culture over yours. Too bad for you. Your French politicians and laws are in our favour '

Well, now muslims are feeling French law. And now muslims are being required to curtail their foreign culture and adhere to French law and live more in line with the culture of the host population

Now what ? How strongly about their face veils do muslims in France feel ?

Are they prepared to depart France in order to continue sporting their face veil ?

Let's see

The reason the whole Burqa loi came up was within the concern for integration, not any security concerns !


Xavier Bertrand, January 2011, secrétaire général de l'UMP:

« Le secrétaire général de l'Elysée, Claude Guéant, a estimé de même sur Europe 1 que le port du voile intégral ne s'inscrivait pas dans une volonté d'intégration en France. "On peut imaginer par exemple que, pour entrer dans la nationalité française ou dans un dispositif d'intégration, on ne porte pas le voile intégral", a-t-il dit lors de l'émission Le Grand Rendez-vous. »

« le porte-parole de l'UMP Frédéric Lefebvre a souhaité l'"interdiction de l'accès à un certain nombre de droits" aux femmes portant le voile intégral, citant les "prestations sociales", les "allocations familiales" et les "titres de transport public". "Quand on ne respecte pas ses devoirs, on n'a pas à avoir accès aux droits. Les droits et les devoirs, dans la République, ça compte", a déclaré le porte-parole du parti présidentiel lors du point-presse hebdomadaire au siège de l'UMP. »

lci.tf1.fr...


The pre-existing law that forbids hoods and masks in public for security reasons only became used to get this law passed.

I am sorry I don't have the time to translate all that... but I see there is a frenchman here who can read it, and I mostly wish to respond to his position in particular.

But included in this is a statement here which makes an interestign point also- and that is the relationship of duty and right. The french system, which has much socialist type of programs (but a capitalist economy of private business, I do not wish to confuse people) only can work if it is a trade off. The "right" to have free medical care, and the financial aid requires a certain amount of duty in return. Duty to be a constructive part of the community, and to integrate it to an extent. I think this is a relevant point. If you want to benefit from the protection and services of any community, then there is a minimal amount of restraint required. If I want to stay on this site, I need to respect their guidelines, which allow for it to stay organized. (by the way, on that note if I have accidently broke any rules, please tell me, I haven't a real good sense yet for what quotes are too long or not)

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Annee

I suppose - - I could even take the position that covering your face in public infringes on the rights of others.

I can see how you could take that position but I can't see how it has merit, what rights of others are infringed.

i have been to 3 casinos here in california, and you are required to pull down the hood on a "hoodie" sweatshirt while in the casino, so it doesn't cover your face...apparently they have stricter security concerns than france does.

reply to post by Dock9


If anything I'm afraid we'll see the usual Muslim protests, hopefully peaceful, but that can all go downhill quickly.

Once again, I applaud the French government and people for supporting and enacting this legislation and I wish them all the best. Their courage is refreshing to say the least.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by marinesniper0351
reply to post by wingsfan

 

Amen to your comments, I have told my own family members if you dislike it here is the US so much and you are always praising your country of birth like Iran, than I see no reason why you should not move back...?

Then they change the content to well America is the land of the free etc...and detract from why they left their wonderful country to begin with.

Blend in, enjoy a different culture...I am Muslim/Persian/American and speak English, Farsi, Spanish and some Portuguese...

yup, you sound and think like an american, no matter what your cultural heritage is, and that is what this country is about. good post.

Agreed, I'm all for if you don't like it leave, no problem what so ever with that stance, I would though draw back on making it so unpleasant with silly and intrusive laws that folk feel they have to leave.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Annee

I suppose - - I could even take the position that covering your face in public infringes on the rights of others.

I can see how you could take that position but I can't see how it has merit, what rights of others are infringed.

i have been to 3 casinos here in california, and you are required to pull down the hood on a "hoodie" sweatshirt while in the casino, so it doesn't cover your face...apparently they have stricter security concerns than france does.

You'll find that those measures are so their cameras can identify known counters and folk using computing devices connected to their ears, the ban on the Burqa will not stop a single terrorist outrage but might inspire a few, that's what troubles me about this issue.

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Annee

I suppose - - I could even take the position that covering your face in public infringes on the rights of others.

I can see how you could take that position but I can't see how it has merit, what rights of others are infringed.

Its just one position.

And as far as the criminal mask aspect - - - criminals seem to be very blatant these days - - - hiding their faces doesn't seem to be a priority. So its really not that.

On a human level - - people should be up front - - and face to face. That's just how I feel about it.

I suppose this stance might seem unusual for me - - since I am a total social liberal. I just don't support covering your face.

Just me.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/51102b2f2b4f.jpg[/atsimg]


This is taken from inside a burqua.

Tried to capture what it's like looking through the mesh but in fact the holes are much bigger to your eyes and because you're in stereo, the netting is semi-transparent. So while you can see the netting, you see much better than this out of it.

www.nowpublic.com...


It was taken by a suburban American woman from her experiment entitled the Burka Experiement.

She also had this to say

For the woman under a veil, it is a strong sense of security. If the world around her considered it normal, it would in fact be a very nice feeling. Here where it is a dramatically weird thing the safety is much eroded.

A pink burqua is somewhat less threatening!

I have a LOT of problems with Islam, not the least of which is the way they treat their women. That being said, making the wearing of a face veil illegal is simply ridiculous. If I were French - thank God I'm not, but if I were - I'd be more interested in tackling REAL problems like unemployment among French Muslims, which was the cause of the riots there a few years back; or the entire issue of immigration of Muslims into France.

As I said, the face veil is a minor thing when compared to the way Muslims integrate - or FAIL to integrate - into their new surroundings. I see this as a major problem with immigrants nowadays, in the US as well; the immigrants either fail, or refuse, to acclimate themselves to their new surroundings. I find this a real quandary: Why would someone want to leave their country, presumably to make a better life for themselves and their children, and then DRAG all of the cultural biases and Middle Age-style barbarity they are fleeing right along with them?

As far as I'm concerned any honest, hardworking individual is welcome in the United States if that person can do three things:
1. Leave their Old Country garbage in the Old Country - especially Shariah Law.
2. Swear allegiance to the US, agree to abide by its laws, and uphold the Constitution.
3. Fill out a visa and an application for residency, get in the back of the line, and WAIT THEIR TURN like everyone else.

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

My actual issue though is with people who cry about the state of our governments and then support the crazy things like this that just make them all the more powerful and all the more intrusive.

Whilst you Sir decry every official edict as proof positive of 'The Shadow Government' or imminent NWO thus deflecting from those which genuinely are.

They (muslims) KILLED people because someone burned a koran.

You folks don't think they'll get all bent out of shape over this? I'm just glad I don't live in Paris.

reply to post by Thepreye


But of course you don't really believe for one moment that muslims will leave France and return from whence they came simply because of the face-veil situation -- do you ?

As if

LOL


No. They're very dominant. They live to dominate, those from the middle-east

They won't leave

They'll just continue to make life unpleasant for the host population

In private, middle eastern muslims laugh about the whole face veil issue. They don't wear them as a rule, until they enter the West. Then, they're instructed to wear them as ostentatiously as possible

Because that face veil, plus the soaring towers (all funded by the Saudis) are SYMBOLS of muslim domination

Those things are external, are highly visible and they are used to place the muslim stamp on the West

which is why it is such an issue

Because of course, the host population know exactly the reason for the veils and minarets. And the host populations do not enjoy being dominated any more than they enjoy watching their culture being changed forever by foreigners whom they did not invite

So I'm very glad about the new laws prohibiting the face veil. It's acknowledgement -- way too late of course -- of the sentiments and rights of the host populations

and that's exactly why it's being argued right here and elsewhere

because it's being regarded by certain factions as a 'loss' for the muslim side and a win for the Western host populations

which does NOT sit well with the Saudis or zionist world shapers

I love it

Next, I hope they start tearing down the minarets

I volunteer to help with that in fact

Islam is not compatible with Western values or culture

which is exactly why muslims were imposed heavily all across the West

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

 

I can understand banning any form of face covering for security reasons but not based on religion..
I mean you can't wear a helmet into a bank or many other buildings..

But to ban Muslim veils when people can still walk around in hoodies,scarfs and sunglasses is not right IMO..

This is not actually labelled as a banning of the veil. It is a banning of any sort of face covering. Of course we all know the veil is the real target but the new law is not veil specific. It should be noted that some muslim groups actually support this.

reply to post by Dock9


We will see, and from the looks of it, they will. Electing Sarcozy was the first sign of growing conservatist opinion, and right now the Front Nationale is gaining popularity at an astounding rate (I never thought I would say that, but it is happening).

Originally posted by jimmyx
i have been to 3 casinos here in california, and you are required to pull down the hood on a "hoodie" sweatshirt while in the casino, so it doesn't cover your face...apparently they have stricter security concerns than france does.

I have seen signs in businesses in Los Angeles that require you to pull your "hoodie" down.

It is so the security camera can see your face. It is not just about religious freedom.

Originally posted by beezzer
They (muslims) KILLED people because someone burned a koran.

You folks don't think they'll get all bent out of shape over this? I'm just glad I don't live in Paris.

Agree with this post as firmly as I agreed with OldCorp's post above it.