French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

Originally posted by Saracen1

Originally posted by IronArm
reply to post by Itop1

 

I'm in Canada....and there are spots that we dare not go here. But the Liberals speak of equality (minority over the majority in actuality) but you are completely correct. The UK has it even harder to be safe, and yes I know this to be true, I've been to London, I've been to Yorkshire, and yes, it can be completely unnerving being anywhere at night in "cultural centers" as I call them.

I had a good old laugh when I read this one.
Hey dude, do black/brown folk really scare you that much? BOO!...nah I`m only kidding.

Minority over the majority eh? does that include the first nations people....you remember them, they use to own the place.

I'm part Cree. I have enough First Nation blood to have assorted "rights" in Ontario, the land some of my forefathers lived. And yes, I am afraid. So afraid that I have joined numerous white supremisist groups. Or perhaps...I'm lying about the supremacy.

Speaking of the invasion of a naturalized established country...if we know it was wrong for the Anglo-Saxons to invade and take over Kanata and what is now the United States of America, why is then kosher (ironic statement!) for the "brown" people to subtley take over Europe?

Anyone know if belaclavas are ok? This whole thing is childish. I saw footage of French Bacon sizzling a poor old granmda. Real tough, but hey, everyone's a possible terrorist these days. I'm a visible minority and my biggest fear is of the counter terrorist team! Harper would sell me out in a second, and if propaganda keeps working the way it is, maybe someone at Walmart might call DHS because I had a bad day and look like an angry terrorist from NK, or mexico, or yemen, they all look the same .

Banning burkas? How about a boycott of 'champagne' (TM) ...... another day, another real life episode of south park.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


In other words, the people of France are tired of what they perceive as Muslim aggression and hostility towards their culture, and they are willing to put aside all other political considerations to elect politicians willing to do something about the growing, hostile Muslim population within their country.

Guess what? this change on European attitudes towards Muslims isn't going to go away, and in fact it is going to get worse. What you are seeing is a massive pendulum swing of pubic opinion in Europe, and the more the hostilities continue to grow, then the farther that pendulum will swing towards the right.

Like it or not, the window of opportunity to find cultural common ground with Islam is closing quickly. Multiculturalism is becoming very unpopular, and for good reason. The situation is being heavily abused. The ongoing war between Islam and the rest of the world (and it is the world verses Islam, not just western countries) will most likely continue to expand, and get uglier and bloodier.

reply to post by Saracen1


Aside from all this, preytell, if you are so proud of the heratige and knowladge of the Islamic nations...why not reside in the birthplace of the culture? Not being sarcastic, it is an honest question.

reply to post by Saracen1




Again, clearly you don't know the difference between a bath house and a city, or between a palace and a city.

Your ability to develop a close relationship with the truth, is necessary for you to be able to make things happen in this world. You really need to throw aside your delusions, and start embracing the truth once again.

Islam is the path backwards, not forwards.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

That IS my point. That they expect to be the exception in our rules and laws. That is the subversive nature of Sharia. It is for the purpose of subverting Western ideals. I don't care if they wear a burkha, but to demand to have the drivers license pic with a face covering defeats the purpose of it. I remember a time when we didn't need to have pics on our license. Why should they have the exception and not us? They also apparently can get waivers on healthcare. Do you think that is fair?

When we challenge a law whether it be a speeding ticket or an IRS levy or a fine for not cleaning up after one's dog, I dont see that as "subversive". I see that as our right. It doesnt mean that we will prevail but I support the right to challenge any rule or law.

I would agree that covering one's face in a picture used for identification would defeat its purpose which is why I am guessing that she probably lost.

Saying "apparently they get waivers on health care" doesnt really mean much without some kind of source.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

In other words, the people of France are tired of what they perceive as Muslim aggression and hostility towards their culture, and they are willing to put aside all other political considerations to elect politicians willing to do something about the growing, hostile Muslim population within their country.

Wordy....but I think you have it in several bags of nutshells.

Guess what? this change on European attitudes towards Muslims isn't going to go away, and in fact it is going to get worse. What you are seeing is a massive pendulum swing of pubic opinion in Europe, and the more the hostilities continue to grow, then the farther that pendulum will swing towards the right.

More or less.

I don't see hostility ot Islam as necessarily being right wing - it may piggy-back on anti-immigration coat tails for a while, but IMO it's not an all-encompassing anti-immigrant feeling - Europeans dont' mind immigrants that "fit in".

But mostlems do not fit in....and make a point of making sure everyone knows they don't fit in.

Like it or not, the window of opportunity to find cultural common ground with Islam is closing quickly.

Islam has no common ground with any other socio-political-religous belief.

It maintains it is the perfect word of god and everything else must submit to it. Some others may be tolerated....but that's all it is - tolerance, and it is often too much for some sections of islamn to tolerate anything non-islamic.

Multiculturalism is becoming very unpopular, and for good reason.The situation is being heavily abused. The ongoing war between Islam and the rest of the world (and it is the world verses Islam, not just western countries) will most likely continue to expand, and get uglier and bloodier.

Yep.

reply to post by Dhimmie


I was simply pointing out the fact that assumptions are easy to make. Firstly the individual made the assumption that women are forced by their husbands to cover their face. I made the same assumption by pointing out that women and little girls are forced by their husbands and their dads to wear miniskirts.

Then he made the assumption that women don't like wearing those black things in 30c. So I made the assumption that women don't like wearing miniskirts in -10c snowy weather.

My ultimate point is that you shouldn't rely solely on assumptions to support your argument.

Now that I have explained my previous post, let me reply to you and your aggressive post.

Why are you bothered with what women wear or don't? How does that differentiate you from the extremists you are lashing out on?

I'm fully aware of Kazakistan, and thanks for admitting the fact that they do wear mini-skirts in the cold winter when they "go to night clubs".

It was the same in Afghanistan (100% Muslim), in the University of Kabul, in the harsh cold snowy Kabul weather girls wore mini-skirts. The government didn't mind. This was before the US proxy war in Afghanistan which led to USSR's invasion (under the pretext of helping the Afghan government), and the resulting defeat of USSR.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a67fb9070277.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/778616104932.jpeg[/atsimg]

Arab women have beautiful faces. It's the ugly men who should wear a veil.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by deessell
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I am in complete agreement with you on many things (especially the All roads lead to Rome) but as someone who has lived in nine different countries, I enjoy other cultures, that's why I travel. And yes, governments should reduce immigration.

Currently, I live in a small country with a tin-pot director at the helm, so the only paper I'm asked for is the international symbol of democracy -- the US Dollar. Here, the problem is impunity and a lack of laws.

I am not against limiting or ending immigration as a way to preserve national culture or identity.

That's the only way it can really be preserved though.

Rome itself was a multi-cultural empire (the first) and multi-cultural city, many of the later Roman emperors weren't even Roman or Italian.

Rome is all about commerce and control of resources, and they have used national divisions to create a competition to secure those for the oligarchs and elite.

Once the oligarchs and elite are in complete control of the resources that make urban life anywhere possible they will collapse these nations in ugly bankruptices, religious strife, and ethnic rivalries to where they are no longer viable nations and a One World System of laws that regulate everything will be used to restore order, and the only way to get resources to survive will be through that government that the Corporations that control them all make to make the rules you have to live by to get resources to survive.

The most vital resource presently is oil, and the anti-Islam paranoia that the governments create and play up is designed to make sure you support the wars to give it to them.

It is what it is, people are simply fighting the people they have been pitted through manipulation to fight, the winning move is not being the dog or rooster that responds with a fight, but by being that person who fights those who are doing the manipulating, and that is really not the muslims.

That's our own corporate oligarchs.

Ironic in a way that Mr Rome doesn't believe in the "when in Rome" adage.

If I was in Cambodia and it was understood that staring directly in others eyes was taboo, it would be the last thing I did. I've been taught to repect the culture. If a burka is a cultural item, and not religious, why the resistance?

Your so focused on your NWO paranoia you don't see any other clear and present danger in front of you. A cultural and possible political subversion by foreigners.

You state that restricting immigration is a possible step to preserving cultural integrity, but would not bear with unobtrusive laws trying to diminish differences and promote equality?

Yes, I hate the government meddling in my affairs too, but I'd rather that than have the house stacked with 62% Muslim majority and find out Sharia law is now in full effect in my home country.

Ask some British how they feel about that. My cousins have described to me how towns in areas have become predominantly Muslim and it is the white people who are discriminated against.

I have no problem with countries trying to maintain their cultural integrity. It's a small law banning a discriminatory, sexist article of clothing. I wish Canada would do it, but we never will.

Originally posted by poet1b


Like it or not, the window of opportunity to find cultural common ground with Islam is closing quickly. Multiculturalism is becoming very unpopular, and for good reason. The situation is being heavily abused. The ongoing war between Islam and the rest of the world (and it is the world verses Islam, not just western countries) will most likely continue to expand, and get uglier and bloodier.

I think that is a wildly and broadly exaggerated claim.

It is the 'ptb' who benefit from perceived culture clashes as it encourages divisions among people who likely have far more in common.with each other than their respective leaders.

Yes, there is backlash against cultural and economic minorities. This is not new, nor is it un-common in a rapidly changing world as people lash out at easy targets.

But to paint this issue with such a wide brush is misleading, either by intent, or by the repeating of the disinfo from others who spread it with mal intent.

When one looks at the specifics, one finds far more nuance and subtlety.

reply to post by nightbringr


Yeah because 4,000 women wearing Burkas are likely to 'take over France'.

Considering how many times the Germans did it (3 in less than 50 years) I could see where maybe the French might be worried about this kind of 'army'.

In reality we all live in Rome, but I think it's quite funny how people can complain that western women traveling to some Islamic Countries have to wear a veil or Burka and that's wrong, but now in France you can't wear a Burka.

Seems all rather childesh to me.

I will keep my eye on the Shadow Government while you keep your eye on those dangerous women!

Thanks for having my back!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Yeah because 4,000 women wearing Burkas are likely to 'take over France'.

That's disingenuous PT. You know as well as me that it's not about that at all. It's about the subjugation of women within western society. We all know that women are not deemed equal to men in islamic culture regardless of what any antiquated book says... and when a woman must survive within a fundamentally patriarchal culture such as Islam, the burqa becomes a symbol of indoctrination and survival as opposed to one of choice. The only thing the islamic female is choosing in regards to wearing the burqa is the opportunity to be let out of her house (which would otherwise be a prison) and to not be beaten by her husband should she not wear one.

IRM

reply to post by incrediblelousminds

I think that is a wildly and broadly exaggerated claim.

Then the least you could do is write something that illustrates this claim of yours.

It is the 'ptb' who benefit from perceived culture clashes

Yeah, no kidding! Who would a thought? Excuse me, I was born yesterday.

as it encourages divisions among people who likely have far more in common.with each other than their respective leaders.

Believe it or not, but I wish this was true.

Sorry, but in this instance, Islam is the perfect tool for the job. The problem is that everywhere along the periphery of Muslim control is a war zone, and it has been this way for over a thousand years.

Sorry, but you need to do a lot better job of backing up claim number one.

OK we pretty much all agree that woman being forced to wear something is bad, countries like Saudi Arabia etc culturally enforcing woman to wear it is bad and woman not having freedom to choose is in those countries is bad.

However, everyone that has supported this ban has so far forgotten that some woman do actually want to wear one so should be allowed to.

I really can't get my head round the fact that we are 'protecting' women by oppressing them with this draconian ruling and half of ATS is actually going along with this level of governmental control.

If we allow the ban of the burqua and Islamic veil but don't allow the ban of ALL materials covering the face then we are hypocritical. Simple as that.

But i can appreciate the other side, don't get me wrong it's an oppressive and downright silly piece of clothing, but fighting opression with opression makes us all opressed.

A huge concern is that now these woman who we are supposedly helping, the ones that are forced to wear it and not the ones that choose, now wont be allowed out the house at all. Way to go France.....

Here's a few link with some opinions that i found interesting.

To Burka Or Not To Burka - That Is The Question!

Why I'm proud to wear the burqa

Beneath the Burqa: Islam, Secularism and Liberty

My Burqa Is None of Your Business

This article shows why wearing a burqa is like living in an isolation tank, which i totally agree with, and the last paragraph sums up my stance perfectly as to why no matter what our opinions are we should allow women the choice:

What it really feels like to wear the 'burqa'

Feminism spread in this country because women were given the confidence to make choices about how they wanted to live and I can only hope that living in the West will give Arab women the courage to confront the veil and make choices based on what they want and not on the whims of the clerics and their men.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by Dhimmie

 

For someone who claims to be living in Kazakstan, you should know that the Kazakh hordes fell under the Russian Empire from 1731-1917. In case you don`t know the significance of those dates, it was before the bolshevik revolution and the final victory of communism.

You can repeat your baloney all you like, facts is facts chump.
Its not surprising some Kazakhs speak fondly of the communist period, it did have its merits.
However, communism has dissappeared from the pages of history, so to has fascism, Islam is everlasting.Even after 1500 years it is still the fastest growing faith on planet Earth.

Chew on that chump!

As I said, I live here, you read wiki sites.
Islam won't win here, it was forced on them, they hate it and I love then for that.

reply to post by Dhimmie


It does`nt matter what you love.
Kazakhstan is an Islamic country, just like the rest of central asia.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by Dhimmie

 

I was simply pointing out the fact that assumptions are easy to make. Firstly the individual made the assumption that women are forced by their husbands to cover their face. I made the same assumption by pointing out that women and little girls are forced by their husbands and their dads to wear miniskirts.

Then he made the assumption that women don't like wearing those black things in 30c. So I made the assumption that women don't like wearing miniskirts in -10c snowy weather.

My ultimate point is that you shouldn't rely solely on assumptions to support your argument.

Now that I have explained my previous post, let me reply to you and your aggressive post.

Why are you bothered with what women wear or don't? How does that differentiate you from the extremists you are lashing out on?

I'm fully aware of Kazakistan, and thanks for admitting the fact that they do wear mini-skirts in the cold winter when they "go to night clubs".

It was the same in Afghanistan (100% Muslim), in the University of Kabul, in the harsh cold snowy Kabul weather girls wore mini-skirts. The government didn't mind. This was before the US proxy war in Afghanistan which led to USSR's invasion (under the pretext of helping the Afghan government), and the resulting defeat of USSR.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a67fb9070277.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/778616104932.jpeg[/atsimg]

edit on 12-4-2011 by P3ACE0WAR because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2011 by P3ACE0WAR because: typo

I don't think those pics are of Muslim women mate. Certainly not Kazakh.
The best bit about how Islam is practiced here is there love of pork. I love cooking them a fry-up after our 'haram' night of passion.
LOve KZ

Originally posted by Dhimmie

I don't think those pics are of Muslim women mate. Certainly not Kazakh.
The best bit about how Islam is practiced here is there love of pork. I love cooking them a fry-up after our 'haram' night of passion.
LOve KZ

You said "NOBODY wore a mini skirt unless they were in a club at night."

So many people are in denial, they believe denial will solve all the problem around them, grow up and accept reality.

Muslim veils when people can still walk around in hoodies