The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did William Greer Shoot Kennedy?

reply to post by Rising Against
Interesting thread. My idea of a time traveler killing J.F.K. comes from the short lived sifi T.V. show time cop. Criminals using time travel for their own personal gain and the time enforcement commission stooping them. It was originally a movie. but i liked the show allot.

The top of the front passenger's head is EXACTLY as reflective as polished chrome in the full sun. Check the RGB's and compare them for yourself in a photo editing software, this film was manipulated and withheld from the public for years. I tried debating in favor of this theory before on ATS and there's a thread somewhere on here that goes into alot more detail but I think you've done a fine job here OP.
You might also find this old thread of mine to of interest as well...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Jackie wasn't jumping out the car to grab a piece of brain, she was running from a gunman IMO.

reply to post by twitchy


Well, I make it no secret that I don't believe in this theory at all. That's not to say it isn't true of course but I just think that by far to much points to a shooter from other locations as opposed to one coming from inside the car itself.

Questions immediately come to mind also, such as why didn't Greer try and escape for example? Why didn't Connely and his wife notice a bullet whizzing past them? Why didn't any of the witnesses claim a shot came from inside the car (instead the majority of them ran up the grassy knoll)? And so on..

In regards to Jackie, well, I think the theory stating that she shot Jack is about as true as the theory stating Greer shot him. There is just no evidence for it despite what some claim.

I agree with you when you say that the Zapruder film was edited though, but let's not forget that this film was edited in what seemed to be many different ways. One of which was the speed of it as well as when the first shot had struck. And this wasn't even the only one suspected.

The Hughes and Towner films appear to have been edited as well and at exactly the same time - a time where Kennedy has a clear reaction to "something" (the very first shot?), so It's not just this film (Zapruder film) being edited and edited to hide one single thing - Greer being a shooter.

Jackie wasn't jumping out the car to grab a piece of brain, she was running from a gunman IMO.

Again, I respectfully disagree. I think her first thought was to escape mainly because her husbands head had just been blown apart right in front of her.

Escape would surely being the first response from most upon someone being shot as graphically as this literally inches away from them, is it not?

Thanks for you post and that link btw.

I'm glad you made this thread because roughly 4 days ago someone made a thread at DTV claiming either Jackie, or the driver, were responsible for the assassination. After less than an hour of investigating, drawing from many different sources, I came to the same conclusions that you made in this thread. The most compelling evidence against this claim is the lack of visual proof, ie the glare created by the sun off of the passenger's hair, is clearly not a firearm.

I also brought up the point in that thread that the reason the agents in the front seat were looking backwards was because a shot had already been fired. I won't get into Jackie's actions, since you are wanting to make another thread, but those are easily explained away as well, and I'm sure you will do a great job in your upcoming thread.

I really hope this can finally be put to rest. I have actually spent quite a bit of time researching the Kennedy Assassination, and out of all the areas where a conspiracy could be claimed, only one holds water in my opinion. That is that Oswald was working on a loose basis with the CIA. That is the only area where a conspiracy could be claimed. I forget the name of it, but there was a great documentary done which provided the evidence, including an interview with Oswald's Russian wife, for Oswald having a CIA handler...And if this is so, it can be no coincidence that he is the one who ended up killing the President. But, that is for another thread.

Again, great presentation.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Hey, thanks for that great post,

I also brought up the point in that thread that the reason the agents in the front seat were looking backwards was because a shot had already been fired. I won't get into Jackie's actions, since you are wanting to make another thread, but those are easily explained away as well, and I'm sure you will do a great job in your upcoming thread.

I really hope this can finally be put to rest. I have actually spent quite a bit of time researching the Kennedy Assassination, and out of all the areas where a conspiracy could be claimed, only one holds water in my opinion. That is that Oswald was working on a loose basis with the CIA. That is the only area where a conspiracy could be claimed. I forget the name of it, but there was a great documentary done which provided the evidence, including an interview with Oswald's Russian wife, for Oswald having a CIA handler...And if this is so, it can be no coincidence that he is the one who ended up killing the President. But, that is for another thread.

Admittedly, I've had a change of heart in regards to my thread on Jackie. I'm now thinking of just skipping It altogether really. Reason being, there just isn't much which can be brought forth for discussion you see and anything that can, isn't much in itself anyway. So, please do feel more than free to bring her up here instead. I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts and theories. I'm a keen researcher of this case myself so I'm always happy to see new opinions on the various aspects of the case.

My next thread will be on Oswald now It seems btw. I'm actually writing it up as we speak, and trying to pull all the information together and so on. A lot of which many don't seem to know a lot about too so It should be interesting. It may be a while before I post I guess but I'll send you a PM if you like? I disagree with your opinion of him being involved in such a way which would result in him being the guilty party after all so I'm sure we could have an interesting debate over it.

In case you was interested, I'm looking to give my theory on whom actually shot and killed Kennedy in my other future threads too. I'll try and show why I believe they were the killers as opposed to Oswald of course but In my Oswald thread, I'm just going to concentrate on why I feel he isn't the killer, and I'll attempt to show why he couldn't have been although in all honesty, I do think It's at the very least plausible he fired a gun still. This gun wasn't the fatal shot and didn't hit It's intended target, IMO.

I look forward to posting.

reply to post by Rising Against


Sounds bizzarre, but imo, it was a shot from the rooftop and whoever shot JFK from the rooftop was not a real person, but an echtoplasmic manifestationof some1s echtoplasm. I know the name.
Remember its only my opinion

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

Remember its only my opinion

Yes but you brought this up for discussion remember, so prove it like I've tried to prove my theory....

Oh, and I look forward to your proof as well btw, especially as I know you're incorrect.

Originally posted by paranormal78
reply to post by Rising Against

 

It was just a thought. I have an interest in time travel stories As well as some conspiracy and paranormal and unexplained stuff.

Ever since Tesla said he conquered time and space with his 300mps aircraft the whole
idea has been twisted by writers that can't make enough gas to power such a ship.
The nonsense about time travel is for HG Wells and the likes and has to be dropped in reality.

JFK JR must have been hot on the trail of his fathers killers.
Can't say JFK going down has anything to do with hiding Tesla technology but there is always
a chance. Talking with von Braun might have made JFK wonder why so many German saucer
pilots were gathered around Roswell in the 40s.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

JFK JR must have been hot on the trail of his fathers killers.
Can't say JFK going down has anything to do with hiding Tesla technology but there is always
a chance. Talking with von Braun might have made JFK wonder why so many German saucer
pilots were gathered around Roswell in the 40s.

As Carlos Marcello once said (This being the man whom later admitted to ordering the murder of Kennedy via hidden tape as well as being the man whom was deported by RFK himself): Cut off the tail of the dog (the tail in this metaphor being RFK) and the head (JFK) will turn around and bite you. But cut off the head of the dog, and the tail dies along with it.

In other words, this was why was possibly why JFK had to die when he did (At this time, RFK was going after the highest mafia "officials" in the country (Carlos Marcello being one of the highest).

Nothing to do with Roswell, Aliens, Tesla or anything like that.

reply to post by Rising Against


So JFK going down was just a mob hit.
Well that was also in the mix of reasons and not new at all.
Nothing to do with the old reasons like ending the FED or going into the space shame of
landing on the moon.
The more reasons make the hit more of a unanimous vote as the LBJ party before the
JFK arrival with illuminaries like Nixon and such that thoroughly disliked JFK make one wonder.
Sort of reminds me of the Bush reaction to JFK JR going down which was nothing.

In any case the JFK threat against the FED was reversed by LBJ and Huston got a
space center. You see von Braun wanted to go to the moon and he did so backed
by not revealing the Tesla ship technology he had built. JFK said to the moon we
go but what went on afterward we do not know.

reply to post by Rising Against


Just in case english is not your first language.
Opinions are not necessarily based on theory/proof. They can stem from visions/obe's, hunches etc
Any way your thread is good and food for thought.

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


Well, you gave a very bizarre theory so I would love to see you try and back it up is all.

And English is my first language.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

Well, you gave a very bizarre theory so I would love to see you try and back it up is all.

And English is my first language.

Deflectors toward ignorance are always around as far as I can tell this thread just
caught one.

the agents are big on the net ... ruled (and paid) by the cartels and CIA perhaps

Was JFK killed because of his interest in aliens? Secret memo shows president demanded UFO files 10 days before death

Paranormal and aliens are code words for we can't tell you about Tesla and this energy
deflection has been going on way before JFK and he just happened to meet the wall at full speed.
Whether von Braun wanted to use the Tesla ships he made on Moon trips or JFK was told too
much about Tesla tech, the death of JFK told von Braun he better use rockets for his life long
dream of going to the moon.
von Braun may have assumed JFK held the sway over the use of technology as Hitler once did
but was rudely surprised. The most powerful of the cartels rule even if Hitler might have been
kept in hiding along with their Tesla treasure. I would not be a bit surprised.

reply to post by Rising Against


I saw a video that implicated one man you did not mention. When I look at the photos of your fireball it seems to confirm the presentation I saw aout this man. It was not the driver. Line that fireball angle up with Connelly. It lines up. I saw excellent proof, as good as any that detailed him out. Keep in mind you are seeing his corsage not his left hand in the fire ball pictures. His suit was cleaned before being submitted into evidence and the hat has never been part of any evidence collection. Check it out, it is crazy, I would have never even suspected to look at him until I saw this video. This is part one: www.youtube.com...
This is part 2: www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Turkenstein

I saw excellent proof

Oh, well please show this "excellent proof" then because the video you showed certainly is no such thing.

I have a couple of quick questions also.

1.) How could Connelly have shot from the location the video claims without a single witness noticing? Instead they all seem to point to a grassy knoll shot which fits into the movement and injury of Kennedy at this time.

2.) Bearing question 1 in mind, which is more likely: A shot from inside the car which not one single person noticed, despite eyes from all angles looking in this direction, or a shot from the Grassy Knoll out of view where most of the witnesses claimed a shot had come from?

3.) Connelly at the time of the fatal shot had many wounds, one of which was a shattered wrist (fact). How do you propose he located, then reached up to fire a gun to deliver the fatal shot with his injuries? Not forgetting from the video we can see his right arm the entire time, and It's nowhere near where the video claims it is.

4.) Connelly was facing slightly away from Kennedy. Are you seriously suggesting he simply took a blind shot? really?

Sorry but I'm not buying it in the slightest and this is, with all due respect, one of the most ridiculous theories that I've ever come across. Feel free to try and change my mind though of course.

EDIT: Btw, just so you know, I was unable to view the first video so my post is directed at the second one.

The reason for the slowdown/stoppage of the Presidential limo may have been the through and though bullet hole in the front windshield. This bullet hole was witnessed at Parkland Hospital and by George Whitacker, Glass Engineer at the Ford Motor Co. Rouge Plant, Detroit, MI.

He came to work on Sunday November 24th, only to witness his employees removing said windshield from the limo. They were making a replacement and a few extra's. He examined the hole and determined the shot came from the front due to glass shards on the interior side of the windshield. This extremely important piece of evidence was destroyed and a forgery substituted. The limo was back in the White House garage on Monday morning.

If Greer noticed this shot hitting the windshield, it might have caught his attention, bringing the limo to an almost complete stop. It might also have caused him to look into the backseat, just in time to see the fatal headshots.

Source: The DVD, The Men Who Killed Kennedy.

reply to post by Oldnslo


Hey Oldnslo, thanks for that post.

That's an interesting theory you gave but It seems to be a direct contradiction from what Roy Kellerman, the man sat next to Greer, had claimed. Here's a snippet of interest from Page 85/86 of his testimony:

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any crack in the windshield as the President's automobile was being driven from the point of assassination to the hospital?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did not.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe it at any time prior to the time you saw the automobile in the White House garage on or before November 27?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did not, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any occasion to examine closely the windshield after the time of the shooting up until the time you saw it in the White House garage?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, at the time of your examination of the windshield in the White House garage, did you feel the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. On the day that I visited the White House garage and checked this car over for my own personal reasons, and this windshield crack was pointed out to me, I did--

Mr. SPECTER. When you say it was pointed out to you, by whom?

Mr. KELLERMAN. There were other people in the garage, Mr. Specter, like Mr. Kinney, I believe was there at the time, Special Agent Henry Rybka was the other person.

Mr. SPECTER. Was it sufficiently prominent without having to have it pointed out specially?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Oh, yes; very much. And I felt this windshield both inwardly and outwardly to determine first if there was something that was struck from the back of us or--and I was satisfied that it was.

Mr. SPECTER. When you say struck from in back of you, do you mean on the inside or outside of the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Inside, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Inside of the car?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Right.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the outside of the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did on that day; yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What did you feel, if anything?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Not a thing; it was real smooth.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the inside of the windshield?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I did.

Mr. SPECTER. How did that feel to you?

Mr. KELLERMAN. My comparison was that the broken glass, broken windshield, there was enough little roughness in there from the cracks and split that I was positive, or it was my belief, that whatever hit it came into the inside of the car.

Here is the entire report.

It seems as though the last flurry of shots caused this crack in the windshield which would mean It was not the reason Greer had slowed down. Let's not forget also that nothing up until the point of the fatal head wound actually sounded like a gun at all - instead, It sounded like a firecracker according to witness testimonies.

It was only after hearing something which sounded like a gun shot did Greer speed off and Hill jumped into action to climb into the back of the car.

reply to post by Rising Against


This is no theory. This has been discussed in previous threads.

Here's a statement by Stavis "Steve" Ellis, Solo Motorcycle Officer, Dallas Police Department, JFK Motorcade:

Some of the jockeys around the car were saying, “Looky here!” What they were looking at was the windshield. To the right of where the driver was, just above the metal near the bottom of the glass there appeared to be a bullet hole. I talked to a Secret Service man about it, and he said, “Aw, that’s just a fragment!” It looked like a clean hole in the windshield to me. In fact, one of the motor jockeys, Harry Freeman, put a pencil through it, or said he could.

SOURCE

The bullet hole in the windshield occurred prior to the fatal volley as seen in the Altgen's photo of the motorcade. JFK with his hands still at his throat. Also notice the size of the damage to the windshield in the photo taken from the rear as the SS agent climbs aboard the Presidential limo.


SOURCE


I would have posted the youtube video of George Whitakers statements but the video has been remove at the request of A&E Network who control the rights to The Men Who Killed Kennedy, volumes 1-9.

Believe what you want, but Greer and Kellerman were under great pressure for their actions during the assassination and were quite careful with their statements and testimony. You cannot take as gospel the statement of any Federal employee regarding the events of that sunny November afternoon.

reply to post by Rising Against

1.) How could Connelly have shot from the location the video claims without a single witness noticing? Instead they all seem to point to a grassy knoll shot which fits into the movement and injury of Kennedy at this time.

2.) Bearing question 1 in mind, which is more likely: A shot from inside the car which not one single person noticed, despite eyes from all angles looking in this direction, or a shot from the Grassy Knoll out of view where most of the witnesses claimed a shot had come from?

3.) Connelly at the time of the fatal shot had many wounds, one of which was a shattered wrist (fact). How do you propose he located, then reached up to fire a gun to deliver the fatal shot with his injuries? Not forgetting from the video we can see his right arm the entire time, and It's nowhere near where the video claims it is.

4.) Connelly was facing slightly away from Kennedy. Are you seriously suggesting he simply took a blind shot? really?

Sorry but I'm not buying it in the slightest and this is, with all due respect, one of the most ridiculous theories that I've ever come across. Feel free to try and change my mind though of course.

EDIT: Btw, just so you know, I was unable to view the first video so my post is directed at the
So, what you are saying is yours is a half cocked reply. You wouldn't be so sure if you watched both videos. You do not see Connelly's left hand the whole time. You can also see Connelly struggle until john's face is shot off then he falls back and relaxes. His story did not match the video. You, my friend need to look at all the material before making announcements as if you were there yourself.



Anyway:
#1) He reached under his jacket to fire the gun. The echo could have easily confused people. Whatch both videos for the alignment. If you want to see part one bad enough you will find it on you tube.

#2) People in the car said the gun shot sounded like a revolver. Up to three different guns were heard, "according to witnesses." How do you look at a card trick and not see the trick. With the hand under the jacket it could easily be missed, except by the camera. Watch both vids.

#3) Connelly's right wrist was shattered. He shot with his left not his right. Your orientation is obviously off. If you watch the video"s" you will see that he did not exhibit the body language in his testimony, partna. Connelly's hat has never made it to any sort of evidence or exhibits, it vanished. Why, because of evidence. His suit, the outter part, was ordered to be cleaned before being submitted into evidence. I would think this would be to erase gun residue. The hat had to disappear because of the bullet holes in it. Also, in a pic in the first video you can see a gun protrusion under Connelly's jacket as he stands in the limo awaiting john.

#4) Really, really, come on really.? He doesn't take a blind shot, he looks shoots collapses. Watch the video.

Find it, watch it. Connelly even made the statement in the car, "they are going to kill us all"

reply to post by Turkenstein


Wow, interesting logic.

#1) He reached under his jacket to fire the gun. The echo could have easily confused people. Whatch both videos for the alignment. If you want to see part one bad enough you will find it on you tube.

No, he couldn't have. Again, we could see his arm for the entire duration the video claims he took the shot. And how does an echo confuse people from seeing him reach under his jacket, obtain a gun and then shoot it without any of the hundreds of witnesses noticing? Sorry, but you're really not making much sense here especially with that last statement.

#2) People in the car said the gun shot sounded like a revolver. Up to three different guns were heard, "according to witnesses." How do you look at a card trick and not see the trick. With the hand under the jacket it could easily be missed, except by the camera. Watch both vids.

No, that's a complete fabrication. No one in the car specifically claimed the shots sounded like a revolver at all, you seem to be just making stuff up now. And even if they did, why on earth didn't they claim who really took the shot if they claim It came from a revolver - they obviously would've known where It had come from as It was so close to them? And most witnesses report different sounding guns yes. One of which (the fist) sounded like a firecracker, the second sounded like a high powered rifle - this one seemingly came from the Grassy knoll according to witnesses.

This noise which resembled a high powered rifle conveniently occurred at around the exact same time as the fatal head wound struck. Coincidence? No. No, I don't think so..

#3) Connelly's right wrist was shattered. He shot with his left not his right. Your orientation is obviously off. If you watch the video"s" you will see that he did not exhibit the body language in his testimony, partna. Connelly's hat has never made it to any sort of evidence or exhibits, it vanished. Why, because of evidence. His suit, the outter part, was ordered to be cleaned before being submitted into evidence. I would think this would be to erase gun residue. The hat had to disappear because of the bullet holes in it. Also, in a pic in the first video you can see a gun protrusion under Connelly's jacket as he stands in the limo awaiting john.

This is completely and utter nonsense yet again.

#4) Really, really, come on really.? He doesn't take a blind shot, he looks shoots collapses. Watch the video.

Wow. Watch the video closely, he doesn't look at Kennedy at all. Now you're just ignoring something obvious here.

Find it, watch it. Connelly even made the statement in the car, "they are going to kill us all"

Err... why does this mean he shot Kennedy? If anything, this means anyone but him fired the final shot.

This is a ridiculous theory and It holds no water.