The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did William Greer Shoot Kennedy?

reply to post by Rising Against

Personally, I consider the theory that states the driver, William Greer, shot the president as pretty much debunked when taking into consideration everything I have added thus far. This being so, I really do hope those whom believe in this theory decide to come into this thread and give there thoughts still.

Great job, Rising......

I first heard of this theory a couple of years ago while browsing the Internet. I ran across a home video of William Cooper giving a dissertation, along with the video clip of the Zapruder film that is of lesser quality. At first, it does look like Greer turns around with the gun and shoots, but I personally never bought into that idea. I figured it was probably just the image quality that made it appear that way, so I dismissed it for the same reasons you have shown to be true here.

That particular video of William Cooper's raised doubts in my head about his credibility from then on, as he was adamant that Greer shot Kennedy. I think poor Bill was dipping into the sauce a bit too much when he made that vid. LOL

Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot Kennedy.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

Simple experiment - sit in the drivers seat of your car and hold any object in your left hand as if it were a gun then try to turn, aim and fire at a target sitting roughly in the middle of the back seat.
Had he used his right hand it would have been very evident since it would require readjusting his entire torso as well as having to fully extend his right arm for any accuracy at all.

It's a physical impossibility.

Right front entrance caused right rear exit

20) NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON: greeted the limousine with a stretcher. She claimed, "...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know..." Arlen Specter failed to elucidate what she meant by the "back of the head" being very bad. (emphasis added) (WC V6:136 Within 48 hours of the assassination the British press relayed a second hand account from Bowron through her mother: "...there was blood all over this neck and shoulders. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth , p. 180) Author Livingstone corresponded and spoke by phone with Bowron in 1993. He reported that Bowron claimed, "I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car. When we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about five inches in diameter and there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone. There was, however, some hair hanging down from the top of the head, which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole left fist inside." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 181) She also said, "...The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput. So there was quite a reasonable amount missing from the top as well." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 190) When asked her opinion of the nature of the defect in the rear of the skull, Bowron told Livingstone, "Well, to me it was an exit hole." (Livingstone, Killing the Truth, p. 192) Livingstone asked, "Did you see any entry hole in the back of the head?". "I assumed and I still do that that was an exit wound." Bowron answered. ( Killing the Truth , p. 195). Bowron prepared a drawing depicting the skull wound as she saw it for Livingstone which bears a striking similarity to the diagram of the wound prepared by Robert McClelland, MD and agreed to by Paul Peters, MD ( High Treason in group of images following p. 23 in hard cover edition.) It shows a defect squarely in the occiput on the right side; a second diagram depicting the skull from above shows the right rear quadrant of the skull absent with the notation "missing". (Killing the Truth,in images following p. 368)

reply to post by Rising Against


Bob Harris left out the footage where Greer passes the gun. He is debunked by simply pointing out that visual fact. You posted a horrible attempt at disinfo. Harris is pathetic.
i889.photobucket.com...
i889.photobucket.com...

Bob Harris, a disinfo failure at Kennedy research

www.youtube.com...
I knew a long time ago, bobharris77 had realized during the making of this clip that Zapruder had in fact been altered to hide the fact that Greer shot Kennedy. He did make some adjustments to it because you can no longer advance it with your mouse from 158-200-202. At two minutes you could see the red smoke and then advance to 202 and see the red blotch appear, both of those happening in unison with the white extending backward.

At around 1:30 he's babbling on about how the driver's left hand is at his side while holding steady at frame 312. At the end of his verbal nonsense he advances to frame 313 where you can clearly see it extend in sync with the headshot. What he did was create this effect which distracts the viewer from seeing the fake white working in sync with the fake red blotch. He did this because the screen didn't change for 30 or more seconds before advancing it to 313. This amount of time would have revealed to at least some viewers the connection between the fake reflection and the headshot. Bob, knows the driver fired on Kennedy and this effect proves it beyond any doubt. Bob, is a wannabe conspiracy theorist which means the driver did it, is off limits. This should teach anybody out there...do not try to use the film to disprove an obvious fact because some sleuth may come along and use it against you. After this idiot found out I was using his stupid video to prove the film was altered he went back and enhanced the effect to better hide the fake white and fake mist causing and hiding the headshot from the front.


The above effect was created to hide the fake reflection and fake blood mist from working in sync to cause and hide the heashot coming from the driver. Watch the fake white extend in unison with the red mist between 312-313.

You can see the back of the head start to gape with the fake mist and open entirely with the fake red blotch.


312-313


The Certified Idiot himself.

Fake hand at 304 confirmed by nix gif

www.assassinationresearch.com...
Everyone can see, even the Kennedy Kooks that Greer's left arm is swiftly jerking over his right shoulder in unison with the headshot. CASE CLOSED, with no challenge from any lone nutter or ct'er like Groden and Marrs. It does NOT matter if 1000 people say a blue sky is black, it will always be blue. Every single person who has seen the NIX gif knows Greer's left arm crosses because it happens.


NO HAND OR ARM AT 304-305. IT'S OBVIOUS AND CONCLUSIVE.



THERE IS NO FAKE ARM ATTACHED TO THE FAKE HAND. That is how obvious and pathetic a cover-up it was and is.

Frame 319 is the gun bleached in white

The altered gun is visible before, during and after the shot.
318 is the fake reflection and 319 is the gun bleached in white.

COMING UP FROM FLOOR, BACKWARDS.


They could NOT edit out the gun so they covered it with white and grey. The driver killing Kennedy was always THE TRUTH but was universally ignored and covered-up.

www.assassinationresearch.com...

First off, S&f for the OP. I LOVE these JFK threads. Now for My opinions on the driver angle. One of the things I always found odd about the video is, once shots are fired, the driver (Greer) keeps checking back, and spends probably just as much time looking back as he does forward. However they still manage to maintain a steady course, even though all hell is breaking loose, AnD the driver dowdy even seem to be paying much attention to the road ahead. What I did notice however, is that the guy riding shotgun(forget his name) hardly takes his eye off the road. While greers paying attention to what's going on in the back seat, this guy has his eyes glued to the road aheAd. And since many peoPle use the "you can see both of greers hands on the wheel" bit to debunkthe Greer theory, I propose what if they are right, and you can see 2 hands on the wheel, Greers left hand. And the passangers left hand, in place of greers right. Considering they were dressed identically, and the quality of the original video, is it not possible that after the first shot, when the passenger leans In towards the driver, maybe he was merely taking the wheel so that Greer cOuld turn further, getting a clean shot with his dominant hand. It seemsto me that, IF itdead a "driver is the shooter" scenario, wouldn't they leave NOTHING to chance? Why risk an over the shoulder with your left hand shot, wth so much at stake? If it was in fact Greer, my bet would be that the passenger took the wheel, and steered the vehicle safely so that the driver could turn and take the clean "sure" shot with his right hand. That is, IF the driver is indeed the shooter(or one of multiple shooters) interesting point, not sure which frame, probably 314or 315, looked almost as if a shell casing discharged from t
Somewhere in the car, or at least in the camera shot. Anyways, just my thoughts. Comments?

reply to post by Rising Against


The 1st people to point to Secret Service complicity were authors Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams. Their self published 1974 manuscript Murder From Within was stamped Not For Sale and instead went to members of congress and the FBI. Recently Senator Russell Long's copy number 40 was put up on eBay for thousands of dollars. The case for shooting within the motorcade is laid out in Chapter 3 with extensive citations and personal interviews with police officers that were right there. They not only got sprayed by brain and blood but said the shots were "very close" as the smell of gunpowder was apparent. BJ Martin said "he wasn't far away when you can smell the powder burning right there" Newcomb and Adams found many others who smelled it coming from the car as it passed under the triple overpass and even a nurse who smelled it on Gov. Connally as he was wheeled by. No wonder his clothing was washed and laundered before the FBI could examine them. Powder residue would have indicated a shooter just inches away. MFW is now published and updated finally and can be found at the usual book sellers online. Those that rely on the extant Zapruder film for the truth miss the fact that the Secret Service had ALL the prima facia evidence before the FBI...The body, the Limo, the clothing the bullet and fragments and all the film evidence. If you pollute a river at its source then all information downstream is false.

reply to post by Rising Against


I am new on this forum, but I will try and give my two cent opinion:
Before we proceed with any investigation we need first to establish what we have as information, we have very little to go on to conduct a proper investigation to who shot kennedy, I make reference to the known fatal shot.

Now, as we all know that the conspirators have utterly tampered with the Zapruder film, we cannot possibly count on that version especially the one that is available to the public today.
There is an original version, kept intact by some of the people who were involved i.e Hunt, and some French agency and probably the FBI too.

Now, we know for instance, the shot coming from the grassy knoll is simply impossible if we take the wounds presented to us, meaning the entry wound and the exit wound, the gaping exit wound.
The Limo on that day was running parallel to the knoll, so nobody could shoot the president from that angle and strike the president in the right side of his forehead, I should insist that he wasn't shot on the right side of his there's a slight difference.

The only shot that came from the rear was the one that hit senator Connally in the chest just under the right nipple.
So it leave us with one solution, the Zapruder film we have today many frames are missing for instance when the actual Limousine came to a total stop, not just slowed down, but stopped for about 2 to 3 seconds.
The Video presented by Bill Cooper shows very clearly that Greer did in fact turn around had a gun in his left hand, shot kennedy and then drove off at top speed.

The reflection on Kellerman's had anyone can see it was faked, and made to cover the gun in Zapruder's film, nobody has a flat top like that, and if you compare with his other pictures you will see that the hight of his hair is much lower than the one shown on the video.

Thirdly the bullet that hit the Stemmons sign post was never seen publicly.

Hugh William Betzner's testimony was never taken seriously by anyone, he did say and was very specific that firecrackers were going off inside the limousine.
Another witness said the exact same thing he was a worker standing on the tripple pass.

So are we going to dismiss all of these facts? Plus the video that Bill Cooper presented back in the 70s was sent to Japan to have it computer analysed and the Japanese agreed with him, on top to which he did read secret documents that proves Greer did shoot Kennedy.
And finally Connaly's nephew who admitted that when he asked his uncle who do you think shot Kennedy, he replied without hesitation, "The Driver".

Now anyone is free to reach his own conlusions from the information that is available to us today.
Until new evidence comes to light to show different wounds on JFK's head, I cannot accept the knoll as the position where the shots originated from except the one in the throat because the limousine was still at the top of Elm street, jfk was looking directly in front of him and to his right while waving, so he could be hit in the throat, but when later his head was leaning to his left, just before he was hit by the fatal shot, there's no way anyone could hit him from that angle in the forehead.

A great deal of frames were removed in the Zapruder film and quite few things were added too, especially people's positions, lamposts, motioneless people and many other things were removed and other things that should not be there and somehow they made it to the Zapruder film lol

Like I said anyone is free to make up his own mind about this case, at this point in time, I do believe that Greer did it, because I did see the Gun in his hand.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


As a matter of fact it is very easy to replicate I have done it myself with my son in the car with a water pistol and I did hit my son right in the face, I did it both with a moving car and a stopped car and I am not at all an expert, so it is very possible if youi try.

Remember the car did stop for at least 2 to 3 seconds, first he checks where his target was, turns the second time hits the breaks, and shoots.

I don't know why people keep saying he put his left hand across his right shoulder, No not at all, as his upper body turned to allow him to shoot his right hand dropped on the steering wheel and he aimed and pulled the trigger and another thing, the gun was not as high as it was suggested it was slightly lower than Kellerman's head.
Which confirms that the shot came from down upward when it blew the rear-right of jfk's skull.

Just look at the arm and forearm of Greer's you will see that he wasn't just looking back, and most of the zapruder version that are out there are altered, many frames missing.

Check for instance what William Raymond's testimony when interviewed by Jim Marrs, that the car did stop.
Not slowed down, but stopped.
And as I know Jim Marrs is known of being a gatekeeper don't expect any truth from him, he is mostly interested in making money, selling books and DVDs.
So personally I don't trust him, but what W.Raymond said was very important.

Originally posted by Tytrumpet
reply to post by Rising Against

 

The 1st people to point to Secret Service complicity were authors Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams. Their self published 1974 manuscript Murder From Within was stamped Not For Sale and instead went to members of congress and the FBI. Recently Senator Russell Long's copy number 40 was put up on eBay for thousands of dollars. The case for shooting within the motorcade is laid out in Chapter 3 with extensive citations and personal interviews with police officers that were right there. They not only got sprayed by brain and blood but said the shots were "very close" as the smell of gunpowder was apparent. BJ Martin said "he wasn't far away when you can smell the powder burning right there" Newcomb and Adams found many others who smelled it coming from the car as it passed under the triple overpass and even a nurse who smelled it on Gov. Connally as he was wheeled by. No wonder his clothing was washed and laundered before the FBI could examine them. Powder residue would have indicated a shooter just inches away. MFW is now published and updated finally and can be found at the usual book sellers online. Those that rely on the extant Zapruder film for the truth miss the fact that the Secret Service had ALL the prima facia evidence before the FBI...The body, the Limo, the clothing the bullet and fragments and all the film evidence. If you pollute a river at its source then all information downstream is false.

I totally agree I read what Newcomb and Adams have researched, and the other witness was the nephew of Connaly who admitted that his uncle John Connaly did confirm that JFK was shot by his driver.

I agree, if you take away the zap-film as evidence because it has been modified. we know that
the driver almost stopped the limo. there was no secret service agents near that corner of the car,
that could have been hit by accident from a shot by greer. (stand-down)
also if greer did it, it would definitely prove the secret service was involved.
I know the zap-film is evidence against it, but I feel the driver did it.

I think the whole assassination went according to plan except that Oswald was to be
shot upon arrest at the theater or by tippet .
if ruby had never killed Oswald to silence him I'm sure the whole thing would
have been almost forgotten by now.

I have to admire the genius of the people who organised and carried out the assasination of JFK when almost 50 years later we're still no closer to knowing exactly who and why than 50 minutes after it happened.

reply to post by tired

I think the whole assassination went according to plan except that Oswald was to be shot upon arrest at the theater or by tippet .

Maybe even before that if you believe Marrion Baker was involved.

He was a police officer who ran into Oswald less than 2 minutes after the assassination took place. He was being taken up the building by Roy Truly, Oswald's Boss and building manager I believe, and he ran into the building after seeing birds fly off the roof from gun shot's. Anyway he ran into Oswald on the second or first floor in less than 2 minutes after the assassination took place and he drew his gun against him.. it was only for Roy Truly pointing out that he was drawing his gun against an employee of his that Oswald was allowed to go on his way.

Originally posted by tired
I agree, if you take away the zap-film as evidence because it has been modified. we know that
the driver almost stopped the limo. there was no secret service agents near that corner of the car,
that could have been hit by accident from a shot by greer. (stand-down)
also if greer did it, it would definitely prove the secret service was involved.
I know the zap-film is evidence against it, but I feel the driver did it.

The Zapruder film is the only "evidence" people use to try and show the Driver/Greer theory is plausible, but if you take away the "zap film," you have no driver theory at all because there's nothing to suggest he could be responsible in the slightest.

Also If Greer was responsible, why did every witness, from all sides of the limousine, claim a shot came from a direction other than the inside of the limousine? There was witnesses with-in meters of it after all

But no, witnesses claimed a shot came from behind the limousine or from the side..

reply to post by Focus

The only shot that came from the rear was the one that hit senator Connally in the chest just under the right nipple.
So it leave us with one solution, the Zapruder film we have today many frames are missing for instance when the actual Limousine came to a total stop, not just slowed down, but stopped for about 2 to 3 seconds.

We also have another shot from behind which struck JFK in the back, most probably around the third thoracic vertebrae as I explained in this thread here. We also have another shot which went onto injure James Tague.. In my opinion most probably coming from the Dal-Tex building. That's 3 shots from behind at least as I'm including a separate shot to Connolly's chest. It's also worth pointing out he had injuries to his wrist and thigh although possibly from the same bullet

And Connolly was a Governor, not a senator.

Also no, the car didn't come to a complete stop, that's silly. It slowed right down, yes, but it didn't come to a complete stop. Certainly not for 2-3 seconds anyway.

The reflection on Kellerman's had anyone can see it was faked, and made to cover the gun in Zapruder's film

You mean what we saw was a gun and not a reflection from Roy Kellermans forehead? Hm, interesting....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bf4e71336af0.jpg[/atsimg]

You're wrong. Simple as that. This is frame 312, the fatal head shot taking place at frame 313.. There is no gun. It's clearly a reflection from Roy Kellerman (to the right of the driver), not a gun.

It's as clear as day.

I cannot accept the knoll as the position where the shots originated from except the one in the throat because the limousine was still at the top of Elm street

You're wrong, it wasn't still at the top of elm street at all.

The throat shot almost certainly took place at frame 223 as JFK reacts immediately after this (which we can see as he's only just coming out from behind the Stemons freeway sign) and we can clearly see no reaction when he goes behind the sign. Here are some frames to prove it:

Zapruder Frame 223

Zapruder Frame 224

Zapruder Frame 225

Zapruder Frame 226

Zapruder Frame 227

The top of elm street was littered with witnesses also, the towner family being the most recognizable, and if a shot had struck JFK at that point.. we'd know a lot about it. Also please at least look at the above frames I'm linking.

Of course you'll most probably claim these are altered.. but if you believe the Zapruder film was altered you can't believe the Greer theory because the Z-film is the only reason we believe a shot came from inside the limousine at all....

A great deal of frames were removed in the Zapruder film and quite few things were added too, especially people's positions, lamposts, motioneless people and many other things were removed and other things that should not be there and somehow they made it to the Zapruder film lol

Like I said anyone is free to make up his own mind about this case, at this point in time, I do believe that Greer did it, because I did see the Gun in his hand.

Oh, so you admit you believe the Z-film was altered.. and yet you go onto say you believe Greer did it because of what you saw in the Z film.

Interesting, lol. *facepalm*