Tried to Hire a Homeless Man Today

reply to post by jacobe001


I believe I have a similar view such as you explained about reincarnation. I also believe in compassion. We cannot always know what is what with other people's lives. If we put ourselves in their shoes we can have more compassion. But if we enable people to make wrong choices, that is not necessarily the answer. Too many people feel we must use govt to solve every problem we see in the world. Centralized control has never been the ultimate answer.

You know the old Marxist maxim "from each according to his ability to each according to his need", well who is the govt to decide for us what our individual needs are and how much to give to whom and what charity.

reply to post by notsofunnyguy


Yup. I saw the same thing myself. You know I see the same thing everyday in DC. I go to work in the morning and a woman and man switch off every day begging at the light on my off ramp. I know they're related because they have the same children pictures on their signs. They have signs that basically say 'I have four children, have lost job, please give money, god bless!' It makes me so angry because they don't even try to wear dirty cheap looking clothes. They look pretty well off for sub normal standards. The other day the woman was wearing nice brown leather boots with nice pants and a cute looking gray sweater with a brand new looking light brown leather purse. She even had a 12 pack of bottled water there for her to drink while walking up and down the lines, and still people still hold up the traffic handing over hand fulls of cash to these free loaders. Makes me wonder why I even bother commuting to work. Needless to say, I am disgusted every morning on my way to work, because I know they are not real homeless people and still make very very good TAX FREE money.

The guy on the left says to give the homeless man money because work is too hard and how dare you judge him.

The guy on the right says that homeless man should go get a job like the rest of us; no effort, no pay period.

The guy in the middle offers the homeless man some food and/or work but get's spit on.

The 4th guy drives by the homeless man without stopping, doesn't even look his way...

The only winner here is the "homeless" man with a pocket full of tax-free cash. The other guys are subject to criticism and ridicule.

edit: what a damn fine society this is...sigh.

reply to post by primus2012


Hahaha.
Nicely said. Star for you!

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Yes, it's sad we all have to become destitute because of some do gooder marxist who think we owe the world something. and the lobbyists and the pork barrel recipients, and so on...and oh how about the revolutionaries we try to free, the list goes on.

Originally posted by eueseh
what i find wrong with the picture. Is nothing.....you offered a hobo crumb pay that is even too low for a bum,so he rejected you.

That's the marketplace! You offer someone a job at a reasonable market price and they think hey I cant live off that so I will just panhandle, or ummm bargain for taxpayer baillout and higher pay and better benefits.....

reply to post by ker2010


Funny thing that. I dont give a monkeys nut about religious freaks. If someone is hell bent on my destruction I shall react and behave accordingly. And I mean personally hell bent. Not some wackjob on tv claiming death to America. Real enemies dont tell you they are enemies. Barring that...I am not here to judge you...your lifestyle...or your lifestyle choices. That is between you and your own karma or whatever you choose to believe in. I dont even judge you for that. Only idiots worry too much about someone else's motivations. If someone needs some help...and there are many types of help...I dont mind helping them. We are all trying to make our way in this world and it says a lot about a society....how they treat those whom they consider lower on the totem pole. Do I think everyone should run out an help the first bum they see? Not if they dont want to. But Nor do I have to absorb others cynicism to the point where everyone is a suspect. Its suits I dont trust. The tattered are okay by me. Theres an honesty about life in the gutter. It doesnt pretend to be anything other than it. Its the rest of the world that tries to pretend that the same laws of the jungle dont apply. Its the rest of the world that claims civility but behaves anything but.

reply to post by onehuman


This reminds me..my brother told me last week near his tattoo shop, a bum approached him and asked him if he had twenty bucks he could "borrow".. my brother was like "Good god man, panhandling rates have certainly gone up!" He offered him change in his pocket but the man refused it!
We couldn't get over it..approaching someone and asking..nay, demanding twenty bucks!

Once,, when I was younger,, more naive,,, and a little bit mean when pushed,,, I met a crack whore,, which at the time,,, I didn't recognize as such until too late. Listened to sob story as I went to the grocery store..
her baby needed diapers, and she couldn't afford it plus food... so I went bought diapers for her. Went through the line,, and I TOOK THE RECEIPT.
she thanks me profusely.
I feeling odd and not good like I thought i should,, as my intuition kept kicking me in the ass. Sat in my car and watched through the window,,
she goes back in the store,,, No Reciept,,, gets the cash.
I was flabbergasted at my own stupidity.

Met her at the door as she walked out with my cash in hand.
I said.
Give me my money.( i recall also a few choice words,, and threats to beat the CracWhor with my fist pretending it was her imaginary baby) Yeah,,, I know,,,, I wasn't a Buddhist thinker back then.....just another southern redneck.

And snatched MY MONEY out of her hand.

Another story.... cries,, boo hoooooooo!
I get in my car,, drive away
Just a wee bit wiser.

My compassion has taken some beatings in this life.. I still have it,, believe it or not.
sad sad sad

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
No way in hell would I go with a stranger for twenty bucks to do anything. Yet here we have an OP who is trying diss on this homeless guy, and others trumpeting, if you are really hungry you would do it, then others claiming they are really scammers. Give me a break. The homeless are often the first ones sadistist killers go for, because they usually won't be missed.

The old, twenty bucks to rake my yard scam has likely resulted in a lot of misery and death for homeless men and women.

This thread, and some of the attitudes it displays towards the topic of homeless disgusts me.

I would do anything I had to if I was hungry. But I wouldn't pretend to be a homeless veteran, which was what my story was about. It happens here often. I take no issue with the homeless in general, but the problem with the panhandlers has gotten out of hand despite there being two food kitchens open and two shelters. I live in a small town. Despite the services available to them, they have lied about being vets, or homeless all together, and some have become aggressive with people on the street, and have defacated and urinated on business sidewalks in retaliation for being asked to move to the corner to do their panhandling as they were harassing people. Now they have passed a law against panhandling in the downtown district. If caught, they are warned, then the police will take them to a food kitchen or shelter.

The real homeless people I have encountered do not act this way, and they know where to go for help. The ones who are just hobo-ing around from town to town looking for hand outs with zero interest in working are the ones who have been the trouble makers.

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


And no one here is saying they all are greedy bums, but you can never tell who is working the system. But look, one night I went to Walgreen's and when I came out, some guy tried talking to me, and he started to come toward me and was talking about my car tire being flat. But before he said that he just said, "Can i talk to you" and I was like forget it its dark and Im alone in a dark parking lot. Plus he came toward me aggressively. My only thought at this time was to protect myself, so I fumbled for my keys as fast as I could and just said no, and he retorted that he just wanted to warn me about my tire. My response was its my business. He said eff you &^%itch and so sometimes I just dont care about people like this.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


Amen! Ditto!

I was just emailing a gal who I'm sort of seeing who invited me out tonight. I said I might meet here at a place we sometimes have drinks at. A nice place, average middle age middle class safe crowd for the most part who frequent the establishment, but it skirts a part of town that has a few dive bars. I commented on what I thought of those places and that part of town. That part of town, the bars are havens for the "Hey buddy can you spare me a beer? I'm broke." type patron. Meth crackhead bars is what they are. She took offense when I described them as such. I guess she thought I was running down our town in general in an opinionated manner. She is a local business woman, so I can understand why she took offense, but what I was trying to communicate is that there are commonsense places you just don't go unless you like being around the hard drug and con game scene. I wanted to make sure we didn't have one too many and ventured into the dive bar scene. I was just setting some casual date boundaries. Anyway my point here is that homeless sometimes means hard core drug user and violent con. Some people are simply down on their luck, but most of them are hard drug users statistically speaking, that's a fact. Some might be fearful of strangers offering help in odd ways, ( I'm thinking of Eddie Murphy here in the movie Trading Places when he is approached by the Dukes. If you have seen the movie you'll know what I'm talking about.) but that's rare. Since most homeless people are statistically junkies, and Junkies are dangerous a person's show of kindness should be shown at arms length toward the down and out. On the other side of this, yes, there are dangerous folk on both sides of the equation here. Pervs. This whole matter is one of pervs vs junkies. I guess that's what this boils down to. Both equally dangerous in my opinion. The truly kindhearted and the truly down and out who are not looking for their next fix and planning their next crime to pay for their nest fix are out there. The hope is that they do happen on each other and the spirit of goodwill creates the magic of real and appreciated help that helps to undo social injustice.

He actually said he can make 20 bucks in one hour?

You should have hired a Mexicano.
How many were black?

I got it. I've got the solution.


I've been upset greatly by all the distrust and prejudice. So I figured out away you can discern the real homeless from the con-artists. We can tattoo the lower classes with a registation number. Licence the poor so to speak. I mean they already certify the mental ill. Like all the veterens with PTSD. So what's the problem with a special numbered tattoo?

That way you can ask to see their proof of poverty before you decide to assist their request.
Then you won't be cheated or manipulated.

But I found a problem with my solution. Technically, those that are engaged in fraudlent behaviour like pretending to be poor in order to trick people into charitable acts, are mentally ill. Because to do such a thing means they are psychopaths. So they would qualify as mentally ill and therefore they would need a special tattoo.

So I quess it's a complicated problem and I don't have the final solution. Since you can't really tell the difference between a real homeless person and a person pretending to be homeless, you should obviously, instantly, assume they are a fraud and protect yourself. It's survival of the fittest don't you know? It's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Because it is better to punish the real homeless for the actions of psychopaths, isnt it?

Since you can't tell them apart.
Neglect them all.
Or just gather all the real ones up, and put them in a camp.
Then they won't get all mixed up out in the public square.

Most homeless (if they're actually homeless and not just pretending to be to make a living) go through there money so fast because they are alcoholics. They could probably drink about 2 bottles a day. In Bangor, ME a homeless guy died because another homeless guy set him on fire underneath a bridge. That homeless man died because they were fighting over a bottle of alcohol. Kind of sad isn't it? Also pathetic.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by onehuman

 

Well, there is the trust factor. for all these guys knew, you wanted to kill them and make a suit out of their skin. Live on the street long enough, and lesson one - TRUST NO ONE - becomes pretty ingrained. I've been there, have you?

$20 to rake your lawn though... huh. Back in the 90's, as a young teenager, I wouldn't take less than thirty. Thirty dollars bought a lot more Magic cards back then than it does now, for sure (I guess, I haven't played that game in years!)

Twenty bucks is nothing. Seriously, you might as well offer him a quiznos sub with chips and large soda for his time, since that's more or less what it amounts to these days. -I- wouldn't rake your lawn for twenty bucks, and I doubt you would, either. He was running a cost-benefit analysis. Is he so on the outs that he's going to spend his time doing a favor for a stranger, for chump change? 'Cause, really, at that price, he's basically giving YOU a handout.

What I read above let me understand finally why the world (and the USA first of all of course) is going down the toilet drain... cost-benefit analysis for a desperate/hungry homeless?

Unbelievable.

reply to post by AwareOfSurroundings


no more pathetic than fighting over a parking space, kids soccer game, skanky chick, crappy guy, sports team, D&D game or trivia question and yet us home having folks do just that. We do awful things to eachother in the name supposedly noble causes and yet look down our noses at those who have regressed back to baser instincts. Anyone who has never lived on the streets..dare ya to try it. It sucks and can scare the f**k outta ya if you are unfamiliar with what you might encounter. Urban Outdoorsman, as I like to call them, have a unique perspective into this whole system that long ago chose to either spit them out or they simply walked away from. They get to stand outside of it, largely ignored, often sneered at and yet no one seems to get that all that talk about connection ends if it doesnt extend to even those we find distasteful. To love the unlovable is a sign of spiritual growth and we are nowhere near that place. Fight or flight should go without saying but the rest is up to you. How will you know what that person wants and what they plan to do unless you talk to them? And I mean TALK to them...not grill them about what they intend to do as you stand their with our benevolent dollar, lol.

People would prefer that the bums make things known outwardly so that they can be spared having to actually converse with these poor souls. Good ole anonymous giving. It puts money in their pocket and keeps you from feeling like a tool. everybody wins. Right? Wrong. Even as we drop some coins in a cup many are failing to realize that these are still people. People walk away and forget all about it. And anyone who uses the excuse that they are possibly criminals or crazy to disconnect themselves should hurry up and buy that farm out in cornhole county somewhere because crooks and nuts are EVERYWHERE....even our very own families But they shower right? They dont look....scary. They dont visibly offend us. Not all of them smell like burbon with a dogcrap chaser. But where's the challenge in that? lol. I have had the privileged of being a bartender in an urban area and you meet all sorts of people with some very interesting stories. Imagine what someone might tell you if you asked them to tell you an interesting story in exchange for the money and didnt trouble yourself about what they intended to do with the money.

This is directed at the original poster. Is that what OP means? I don't even know and have never asked before.

I'm not stupid and I understand your argument. I never comment on anything on ATS other than the Fragile Earth Topics. But I saw your headline and knew what I would find before I started reading. I understand your perspective, and I understand your frustration. But I don't think you understand the mentally ill and the homeless. I do. I have a mental illness. I am not homeless at present. But one never knows if that's a definative statement when your poor. I don't really consider myself poor exactly. I live in the Western Hemisphere in a land of affluence- so it's all relative. I know your heart was in the right place. And I know that you had good intentions.

I knew I would find lots of intolerence on this thread. I was correct. I knew I had to fight for those that couldn't. The homeless don't have computers. Well, someone said they were homeless and living in a bus, and they must have a connection. But that's an exception. I knew that there wouldn't be many poor or mentally ill people out here to argue their case. It's be like having a trial and not letting the defandant have a lawyer.

I do not know you or the person you tried to help. So I cannot say anything with any real certainty. But the person may not have wanted to go with you for many different reasons. A simple one may be that they had a routine and didn't want to stray from the program. Many, many people on the street are obsessive. They have regular spots and they are comforted by the familiar. You were a stranger. And you are the exception. Most people will either give and rush away, or many will just ignore them. So you were throwing the person a curve ball- perhaps.

Doctors barely understand mental illness. They have no cures and the medications are terrible with horrible side-effects. I don't expect the average person to comprehend all the preplexing complexities. It's a really effed up dysfunction. You can't expect people with mental illness to make choices you'll understand. That's their problem. And that's why they're on the street. Sure there are people preying on the compassion of others, and they are manipulative. But they're sick in the head as well. So what if every once in awhile you give ten bucks to the "wrong person". So what if these people leech off of the good graces of others. Would you want to be them? Would you want to be a parasite?

No.
So just be thankful you're not immoral like them. So just be better than them and be content in that. It's like letting your first romantic love in your life be your last. Unless you've married your high-school sweetheart, you've probably had your heart broken before you found true love. Did you let your first love cloud your heart and stop you from dating?

People will break our hearts.
People will lie to us and decieve us.
But we can't allow one experience determine that all things are alike.
Because they're not.

reply to post by onehuman


Well, I figured I'd leave my own thoughts on this subject here since I have worked with the homeless a lot and I just got a surprise job today. First, as to why someone without a job, a home, or much money might refuse a job, there are plenty of reasons, ranging from fear and distrust of strangers to how much the job pays to attitude.

Our logic doesn't always make sense to others. For instance, many soup kitchens end up with a lot of uneaten food. Why? Well, when you eat three meals a day and pay for all your food, there is a tendency to eat until it's gone, rather than until you're full. If being hungry is the norm, you fill up faster, and are less likely to overeat, especially if the food you're eating isn't something you had to pay for. In other words, once you're full, why eat more?

Ultimately, it comes down to perspective and attitude. I got a call from a friend asking if I could wash dishes at the restaurant she works at today, and now I have a crappy minimum wage job that I love because IT'S A JOB. I'm one of those people that likes to help out, especially if I'm getting paid. I would probably gladly rake a yardfull of leaves for $20, but once again, that's just me.

reply to post by Robin Marks

Since you can't tell them apart.
Neglect them all.
Or just gather all the real ones up, and put them in a camp.
Then they won't get all mixed up out in the public square.

You are either 12 yrs old or so naive that u might as well be. First off, homeless and down and out people aren't that way from birth. Some are just like normal people to start with, like eh? and then something happens to them. Sometimes like, they get better -- so what do you do, use temporary tattoos? Every generation breeds a new generation of bums. Do you just keep expanding the camps to hold them??

Jeez. As society moves ever towards the richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer, there will be an ever growing crowd of people willing to take advantage of that. This is because those who are lucky enough to still have work, and make good money will feel guilty that there are so many without. There will be more of those in real need and more of those who take advantage of the situation to get money free from those who have it.

Camps are not the solution. Reducing the gap between rich and poor and bringing back a middle class would probably be a better solution.