So What about the Rights of the POLICE!?!?!?

ATS has a plethora of videos showing alleged police brutality and threads about the creation of a police state with sweeping generalisations that market the police as the henchmen of the evil government. In doing this however I think, we are ignoring the rights of the brave enforcers of the law as this thread will illustrate. This however is not a defence of the police, without doubt it has its bad apples just like any organisation but on the whole I think the way we talk about police officers on ATS is downright disrespectful to those who rottenly put themselves in harm’s way to protect us. We don’t tread our armed forces like this so why do we treat the police with such contempt.

I guess this hate must stem from a complete hatred of all authority, people are envious of the power a police officer has over them. The ability to punish you if you break the law, they can assault you if it is justifiable in a court of law, and do just about anything to prevent you from committing a crime or putting yourself and others in danger. When you think about it at first glance it appears to be allot of power for one group to have over everyone else in society. But it’s not, it’s not the police that have this power, it’s the law, its society itself that needs laws for without law there would be anarchy and we need people to enforce these laws, the police. That does not mean they are above the law only that they enforce it, if they break it they will be punished just like the rest of us.

Considering that they must follow the same laws as us you would think they would have the same basic human rights but it seems they do not. A riot is a perfect example, up to 100,000 angry protesters some of whom want to break the laws that govern society and perhaps only a few thousand police officers. Once the law breaking starts they have an obligation that has been bestowed upon them by societies need for law and order to intervene, often by putting themselves at risk. In the UK a popular method used by the police when there is a risk of this happening is “kettleing” surrounding a group of protesters by a ring of police to prevent them moving. This was done recently in the riots in London after the anarchists left the city looking like post-apocalyptic disaster and they were criticised for it. What was the alternative, just leave them to get on with their reign of terror of the country’s capital.

Then there is my favourite one, the videos of the police punching a law breaker in the face that get leaked onto YouTube and we all go on about what a disgrace it is. I can think of one example of this that really sticks out for me, about 8 or 10 police officers were surrounded in London by about a hundred “protesters” who were shouting various obscenities at them and throwing projectiles. During this incident a police women tried to grab a police officer, first time she was warned to back off, second time she got smashed hard in the face by a male police officers fist, breaking her nose. At the time this was like treated like a national embarrassment, the police were slaughtered for it in the press (and on ATS if I remember rightly). If that women had grabbed onto the police officer into that crowed he would have received a savage beating, so when does his right to self defence become obsolete to that woman’s right to “protest”, when in fact she and others were really just breaking the law. Yet we expect the police to forfeit their right to self defence so that others have the right to “protest” even when that “protest” has really became a “riot”.

I find it ironic when Americans start moaning about how awful this is that the police are defending themselves like this. I mean the second amendment allows you the right to self defence by owning a gun, yet you all get upset when you see a police officer defend himself with a weapon or otherwise.

Last time I was on a protest was a years ago, during the protest (and it was a peaceful protest not a anarchist riot) I asked a police officer if he agreed with the way the local council was cutting back on money for public services, his response was that during a protest he has to remain impartial and cannot publicly declare his stance on the contested issue to a protester. In other words during the protest he had to sacrifice his freedom of speech. Last time I saw a demonstration between the EDL (English defence league, essentially the racist scum of the earth) and the UAF (Unite Against fascism, a bunch of lazy pseudo –intellectual’s who hate the EDL), the UAF started to call the police Nazi’s because they were preventing the UAF mixing with the EDL. They called the police scum for not agreeing with them, implying that the police agreed with the scum of the EDL and they couldn’t say anything to convince them otherwise other than to day “they also have a right to protest”.

I could go on all day about this, here is another one. During the last protests in London the law breakers covered their faces in black balaclavas, one of them offered my younger brother a hammer and a mask so he could “protest”. My brother also saw these guys throwing fireworks with bags of coins at police and blocking the exhaust pipes of their cars. Now because they have their faces covered it is very hard for the police to identify who the law breakers are and as we know the law has to be enforced, its not safe to have men running around the capital with a hammer destroying anything they don’t like. With this in mind the home office is introducing measures to allow the police to remove anyone covering up their face and now we have cries of “police state”. I bet these people are the same people who advocated the banning of the Burqa, but they don’t advocate the banning of other garments that cover their face when out law breaking. The police need to see who is violently attacking them to protect themselves not because the government is creating a police state.

I would hate to be a police officer in this country, everyone just piss’s all over their rights believing that they are somehow a bunch of evil doers. When the opposite is true, this is brave men and women who are only doing a job, a job to protect the public and up hold law and order. They are still human and entailed to the same natural rights at the rest of us, bestowed upon us by our very humanity (even though I don’t really like human rights)

Jus like soldiers, they have less rights than civilians. They know that when they become policemen. Soldiers just get a rude awakening.

So do I feel bad for the police officers? No, they're too abusive (majority) and work for a jacked up system. That's just my personal opinion.

I really feel that the reason those agents got shot is because people these days are actually scared of the police. When they do their raids, they come in screaming and yelling.

With my paranoia I probably won't hear the word police. Just all the screaming and yelling. I would probably start shooting too. Not because they're the police but becase they scared the sh!t out of me.

Perhaps too many have been belittled and mistreated by police that they just don't like them.

And if police want rights they are welcome to all the same ones civilians have.

reply to post by Tnewguy


Well under international law the only people who are not civilians are those who serve in the armed forces, therefore technically the police are still civilians.

and if its a drug raid they can’t exactly knock at the door because by the time you’ve waited for them to open the door the other guy in the house has the drugs down the toilet. And if you think there is a gun in the house, when the door opens there is very good change the police officer is going to get shot

What is this thread about? Defending police? Justifying what they do and how they feel? The police are brainwashed, period.
Alleged police abuse? Alleged? Go outside, drive the highways, and have encounters with these psychopaths as a citizen NOT connected to any dept or uniforms, they all take care of their own, everyone knows this.
I'm not even going to give any more time of my life to this mentality towards reality worse than a blind mouse underwater in a cave on Neptune.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Of course Police Officers are entitled to rights, just as anyone else is.

I agree that the protestors should remove the scarves and masks, in order for any law breaker to be recognised and punished accordingly. No doubt these people who incite violence could be identified quicker and receive the full force of justice.

But with that being said, Police Officers should also be banned from wering Balaclavas and scarves, in order for their faces to be recognised if they do step over the line when policing events. I think last week a good 75% of officers wore these. If protestors are required to remove them, then so should the police. Otherwise they open themselves up for some of the claims that are thrown at them.

The majority of the Police feel they are untouchable by the laws they are sworn to uphold. What's happening is the Police now realize that armed citizens are not going to stand for their *snip*. The arguments I have heard are similar to the ones you make, about how Police are saving the world, protecting everyone.

The truth is that is not the case, it's an illusion. The reality is that most situations where Police would be needed, they are not around. They spend the majority of their time harassing citizens with laws designed to "protect people from themselves" or dealing with repeat offenders.

While theft, vandalism, murder, home invasion, go unsolved.

reply to post by zestor


The police cannot be everywhere at once, sure they have some spectacular failures but at the same time they do have their successes.

When they choose to wear a badge and up hold the law they choose to be held to a higher standard. If they don't like the job there paid to do and feel like they should not be held to a higher standard than quit.

It i human nature to classify and generalize things.

Every human organization is a sample of the population.

Police are people. Some are operating correctly, some are corrupt. Same is true of teachers, politicians, military.

One problem, these days, is people take one snapshot and associate it to the entire group. This is why indigenous people didn't want their photo taken. It "steals your soul" as it were.

if we want to succeed, as a race, we should quit using failures as our point of reference.

as far as right. they are determined by the hat they wear. on duty they have more rights than the average citizen. off duty, they are a citizen.

peace

reply to post by JBA2848


That is a fair comment, but why with all the liberals running around screaming about the pathetic notion of “natural rights” do they stamp all over the rights of the police. It’s a inconsistency.

They might chose to become police officers, a position that holds authority but so does becoming a doctor, teacher, lawyer, solider or just about any other profession. Yet we do not ignore their rights.

reply to post by zroth


Police are citizens regardless of them being on duty or off duty. They don’t have any more or less rights than the rest of us, we are all subject to the same laws it’s just that they enforce them on behalf of society.

reply to post by JibbyJedi

Alleged police abuse? Alleged? Go outside, drive the highways, and have encounters with these psychopaths as a citizen NOT connected to any dept or uniforms, they all take care of their own, everyone knows this.

How very true

I was once a witness to police brutality a few years ago, I saw police break a man's arm using unreasonable force and I gave evidence in court for the injured man.

I watched the officers stand up in court, one by one, and listened to each of them lie through their back teeth ON OATH, to help their accused fellow officer escape justice. I stared open-mouthed in disbelief as they committed perjury and I knew instantly they had conspired in this case, to pervert justice - a crime you and I would be jailed for. I was disgusted, and still am.

The injured man won his case against them and the Constabulary had to pay thousands in compensation and legal and court costs.

It seems to me that police officers are the most diabolical abusers of the very laws which they are entrusted to uphold.

LOL! They all take care of there own. I was astounded by the people our town hired as cops. Guys I went to school with who were the worst example of having "integrity" I have ever seen. By the time they were in there second year, they were probably suspended 3 times. I remember when a big Tyson fight was on one time the dispatcher was unable to reach a single car for a whole hour. The reason was the entire force was at the sergeants house watching the fight on pay per view, and get this!!! it was a stolen chipped box!!lol the only reason they got caught was because neighbors called the chief to ask why there were 12 cars at this guys house for an hour. Also This guy lived in a $500,000 house. Where does a cop make that kind of money to pay for that house? this was quite a while ago too. His father was a politician, and that is how he got the job.

I resent the fact that cops are always made out to be a hero as well! For example we had two state troopers who were shot, one died, it was tragic yes but the hero crap went on for months and continual requests for donations to the family christ! If I chose to be a cop I and my family know that this is something that is part of the job, it may happen some day. If I still knowingly choose to do this job I cannot expect to be "special" other wise let someone else do the job! The state has benefits built into his position "hazard pay" among others for the family. If I was killed performing my job is the news and state going to call for donations to give to my family, hell no.

Now, if you say, then become a cop! LOL let me tell you. I am in that process, It has been a upward battle because of age, and politics. I have walked a str8 line my whole life! scored higher on exams than people who were hired have no issues with background. I truly believe my problem is I just don't know the "right people in the right places".

So when I hear cops tooting there own horn, and the woo is me it burns me up, because I know there are good people out there who are willing to do the job with out the macho image. People who want to do the job not for the money but for the compassion, to help others. People who show empathy and make good judgment calls based on the situation, not just protocol!

reply to post by kevinunknown


I guess there different in the UK than the US. During a protest or riot the police come out equiped with shields and batons not to mention tear gas. When there at these events they are combat ready. So defense is no more than standing behind the huge shield they carry. And if it gets real scary for them that bring out the amoured transport carriers and water cannons.
www.officerstore.com...
www.army-guide.com...

I'm a conspiricist and fully onboard the liberty movement but one thing I cannot understand is the hatred of the police.

I'm a policeman in Texas and I can tell you that most police officers I know are concerned with losing their jobs and having to be on foodstamps to feed their family. We are afraid of federal civil rights violations lawsuits, internal affairs, and being in the media. We all know that no matter what level of force is used, it does not look good on camera. There is a saying in my department, "No one ever got in trouble for doing nothing."

Now, one thing that I think people need to realize is that "survival" is engraved into our heads as recruits. We know there are people out there that will kill cops and the "officer safety" is always in the back of our heads. Every cop's goal at the end of his shift is just to go home to his wife and kids.

With that said, police often get put into dynamic and highly stressful situations. We have to make lots of decisions in a short amount of time. We make lots and lots of decisions and the vast majority of them are the correct ones...but the wrong decision will end up with the cop on the news, getting fired, and indicted.

I'll also say that the rookie cops are a different breed. A police training academy makes a recruit afraid of his own shadow and he thinks everyone has an automatic AK-47 and wants to kill him. Rookie cops tend to be more aggressive. The older guys are wiser and have CAREER on their minds rather than kicking the tar out of the dope dealer and throw him in jail.

Just know that we do not feel we are "gods" amongst civilians. We do feel like the world is a very dangerous place and we have to survive to put food on the table for our children. We are scared of getting fired, of getting sued, and of being embarassed on the news.

ok So Police Officers are just like any civilian and undergo a rigorous training regiment which reshapes their mind and the way they think. They study for hours on end trying to figure out how to catch those that are breaking the law. Most rookies with the new found power make massive mistakes because they let it go to their head. I have only had a couple bad experiences with a single Police Officer in my town and he's no longer an Officer of the law. This shows that the system of internal investigations is not as robust as it should be. Eventually the officer will get caught and punished for the breaches of people's rights but in most opinions it's not fast enough or not shown enough. I think the reason people get this feeling that people are pompous, arrogant and rude is because the officer's training and experiences have made them suspicious of EVERY person that approaches them. The problems are the laws and not the officers. The laws are laws just to keep you and me under Laws. The police only uphold these laws and believe they are protecting you and me. Currently our system is run by a bunch of double standards which is why people get angry.

Police officers are civilians! Because they happen to collect taxes for a corporation and are backed by a union they are some how not civilians? I for one question anybody that has any authority. My question is why is a "cop murder" any worse than a "murder"? Look at a cop cross eyed and there all over you. They have their place I understand this. But a lot are ignorant of the laws they are swarn to uphold and break the laws themselves. I personally feel that there should be only Sheriffs and deputies. Sheriffs are elected and not owned by corporations. Take the Wisconsin ordeal, Police ordered to remove protesters from the capitol. Did they do it? No some of them joined the protesting. So you have Private government security gaurds (basically) not doing what there ordered to do. Why? Because it effected there unions. You think, if it, when it goes to hell in a hand basket they will "protect and serve"? One thing comes to mind, KATRINA. They will be concerend with their own. I think the biggest issue is the unconstitutional laws they help enforce and the silly city corporation revenue collecting schemes. Police are nothing more or less than an average joe. and should not be treated with anymore or less respect than a average joe. People watch to many movies and think cops ride speeding busses with bombs attached all day and every day. If anything the respect should be from them to us. And if they feel threatened they need to find a deferent job.

reply to post by Prowler33


Than you are aware of the training and how you are told to arresst someone. You are trained on how to perform a arm hold and leg kick to drop a person to the ground. And during that training you were told more ways of not to do it because you would break someones arm or cause facial injuries to person because they would land on there face with no way to protect themselves. But you also know other officers that do it the wrong way on purpose and know what there desired effect is on that person. Now what are there rights again?

Police rights!???!! What about constitutional rights!!!????