So What about the Rights of the POLICE!?!?!?

Originally posted by wytewingdove
But who would you call if you fell victim to a violent crime? What if a loved one was murdered by a drug addict or serial killer?

I see both sides of the debate and both are valid points.

"Who would I call?Pardon me for being cynical:
WTF?
I recommend you dial" 1911"...Because when seconds count the cops are only minutes away. They'll put up bright crime scene tape and take great pictures and file reports of your battered victimised bodies . If a loved one was murdered? I care that my loved one was murdered.Does catching him/her bring them back or really make us even? Its not my place to judge; I can come up with some pretty twisted retribution but don't in reality have the stomach to inflict torture on a fellow human being. With todays revolving door prison system? Arresting them may or may not prevent another murder..

reply to post by Magnum007


How can I like cops, they are very rude and treat everyone like criminals. The cops in my area are terrible and very racist. My friend has a scanner and me and him were listening to the cops, there were cops talking about how they like to pull a black guy out and beat the crap out of them. Cops do deserve the same rights everyone else, because they are human, but they need to respect the rights of others. I am sorry, but I do not like cops. I am a good law abiding citizen and I don't like being treated like a criminal. There are 2 cops I met that were nice, the rest were jerks with power that get to their heads and I am sick of hearing cops violating people's rights and think they are above the law. Cops make dictatorships possible in their abuse.

Kevin, I'm sure you know about the lizardmen from outer space threads that are the most entertaining works on ATS. But those threads are about five times more believable than your laugh-out-loud implication that the police are one of the groups in our country where people just trample all over them and ignore their rights. Seriously Kevin? You think policemen are a group that Americans just trample over in the way many people treat homeless bums?

I just read a story about how police in Michigan will now no longer have the right to privacy while on the job (Source: www.count.org...) which prompted me to post here about police rights. You are so right that police are losing their rights. But here is the thing Kevin: nobody else in the country has EVER had the right to privacy from their employer while on the job. Therefore what police are losing is rights that none of us have and that nobody should have. Our employers have a right to monitor our every word while at work because they set the conditions of the employment at whatever they want and if you don't like it then simply don't participate in that voluntary contract.

The idea that the rights of police are getting violated is more ridiculous than the idea we are being ruled by secret lizardmen from outer space. But for some reason I'm not laughing. Oh yeah its because the police regularly destroy people's lives if they own a plant they don't approve of. They regularly treat citizens as targets to collect cash in speed traps even when there is no real danger. Its a scam and I don't appreciate it. So I can't manage to laugh at your OP.

Believe it or not there are *reasons* cops are unpopular on ATS and it isn't just because they as you so correctly point out they have rights and privileges that nobody else has (even though they should have the same rights as everyone else). I now live in a more rural area than previously and find I can actually stand to look at a cop who are at least 60% half decent people, whereas in the more urban setting I was in prior a cop was nothing more than a rude ignorant prick more than 90% of the time. All the ATS users who can't fathom why you may dislike a cop probably live in a more rural area where they don't see what most people see.

Originally posted by civilchallenger
All the ATS users who can't fathom why you may dislike a cop probably live in a more rural area where they don't see what most people see.

edit on 3-4-2011 by civilchallenger because: (no reason given)

Come on out to rural America. There's a couple few and far between "good guys", but most of the pigs out here are just as happy to trample on someones rights as a city cop (more so, if you ask me). 90% them were donkey-holes in highschool, who after graduating found out they couldn't succeed in life with their donkey-hole attitudes, got a job where they could wear a shiney badge and carry a gun so they could continue being donkey-holes in the name of the government. Basically, these guys get by by camping out at the bar parking lots after close or harassing teenage potheads all day rather than dealing with any REAL criminals.

Originally posted by Prowler33

Originally posted by barkingdogamato one has a avatar of a drum fed AK47, and the other uses a screen name of a high powered round for a gun. Makes you wonder about their comments for being "one of the good guys."

"...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I believe in my (and your) constitutional right to weapons. Even as a policeman, I still have to fill out ATF Form 4s, pay for the stamp, and all the other red tape around getting an automatic weapon. I believe these fees are no different than a voting tax as my right to bear an arm comes with a bill to the federal government. While I think it is unconstitutional, I follow the law of the land and will continue to complete the required paperwork and pay the fees to the ATF.


"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"

-- George Washington

Originally posted by Buford2
reply to post by kevinunknown

 

I know plenty of cops and they ALL think they are God walking the streets. It is so sickening that I no longer speak to them. One works for the US/UN in Afghanistan and he is so brainwashed it is not funny. The police you love are arresting people for everything these days. Just saw where they arrested an elderly homeowner because the Gov wanted her out eventhough she was paying her bill. Fannie Mae was involved and since the Banks and Gov are king they will abuse the elderly, kill the citizens, Kill people in any country they wish including you when they finish killing the rest of the world. Wise up and start to wake up. The police and military are nothing but hired Killers. Let people deal with their own lives. Arm everyone and dare someone to steal or harm them. The police do not even know the laws they are arresting people for. Sorry if I sound like I dispise the police but until they wake up and stop supporting the Royal Families that run this world then I have no respect for any of them. BTW the police and military will be the first to be done away with when the Royal families decide the get rid of the citizens. The Elite do not want trained police or military to get in their way. If the police in the US wake up and leave the force I would have much more respect for them. Right now they are sheep.

I find your statement interesting however it is lacking in evidence.

I could say the exact same thing, and sound very convincing and yet I'd be lieing through my teeth. I have been on this earth close to 3 decades and not once have I witnessed police brutality, or have I been beaten up, or been forced out of my house.

There are a lot of criminal out there who are ripping everyone one even on the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a criminal spreading fear and hate about police.

I'm just saying that it would be a good idea to give us proof. Because so far I'm seeing NONE.

I just find it really hypocritical that people are attacking police. And saying they have no right to have guns, and yet most American citizens owns guns. So police can't own guns, and NORMAL citizens can????

ALL humans can break the law. ALL humans can be corrupt. It's not just the police. The police are just an easy target. The ELITE and RICH are an easy target to pick on.

We are just venting our anger on them. We are always looking for some kind of enemy. And yet we never EVER look at ourselves.

WHY simply because we don't want to believe we are the bad guys.

ALSO I would like to tell everyone HUMANS LIE. WE ALL LIE.

How do we know if this guy is telling the truth???? How do we know if 100% of the members on here are telling the truth????

Blind faith????


NEXT TIME YOU THINK ABOUT ATTACKING POLICE. WHY DON'T YOU GO OUT THERE AND BE A COP.

The moment you out there in uniform and on the streets i can guarantee that you will be assaulted, beaten, and of course you could also be killed by a cop hater.

And that's every single day.

Originally posted by Sphota
Of course the police have rights. They have the right to choose not to be a police officer, for starters. That being said, this isn't some simple issue of pro-police arguments vs. anti-police arguments.

You have to take a step back. The police serve a function in modern society that is, if anything, enabling to a corrupt system. Rather than fixing the reason why we have drug abuse, we have police to punish the offenders and addicts. Rather than fixing the root of violence, you have police who fight the violence with more violence. It's not the police's fault there is violence, but it is also not the perpetrator's fault either. The two work in concert from the societal underpinnings of disparity that creates the vilence in the first place.

Society in most of the US and the rest of the third world in general (no, there is no missing comma or conjunction) tends to allow for higher amounts of disparity based on class issues that may or may not be ethnically oriented. Violence is at every level and as many - including Noam Chomsky and Derreck Jensen - have put forward, the violence is top-down when it is sanctioned. When it is not sanctioned (i.e., bottom-up), the police are called in to manage the misappropriated violence.

This is why many people take issue with the police (and to a larger extent, the justice system and the State as a whole) - it's lopsided to allow for top-down violence - which goes unnoticed, but harshly punishes bottom-up - even if that is the lesser of the two evils, both quantitatively and qualitatively, and despite the fact that the bottom-up is a direct or indirect result of the top-down.

They have rights to choose not to be a police officer????

I have one question for you. If there were no police in this world who would be running the show? Who would be making sure the law is obeyed?

The police are a nesesary evil. If there were no police officers the whole world would end up like a lawless town. And I can only think of one place. Detroit.

I would never ever want to live in a place like detroit. I wouldn't even be able to leave my house without a threat of being shot. Atleast I feel safe, and know that I won't be killed, or mugged.

At least I feel protected.

I really think you should really think about what you say, and think about the consequences of what could happen.

Police are there to make sure people don't get out of control. And sometimes egg heads become police.

But what is the alternative?

Originally posted by Whiteknight2000

NEXT TIME YOU THINK ABOUT ATTACKING POLICE. WHY DON'T YOU GO OUT THERE AND BE A COP.

The moment you out there in uniform and on the streets i can guarantee that you will be assaulted, beaten, and of course you could also be killed by a cop hater.

And that's every single day.

edit on 3-4-2011 by Whiteknight2000 because: (no reason given)

No thanks. I don't want to knowingly risk my life for people I can give less than two shicks about, and vice versa.
Like I stated in my previous posts...

The public isn't out to get you (the police). Sure, there are a few who might be, but just like you say -- we can't "paint everyone with the same brush". This is how the Us VS. Them mentality comes from.
Everybody lives and works in the same community. If you as a police officer feel threatened in the community you are supposed to be serving, imagine how the community feels...
Police have power (more than they need). Not only "with the law" but in numbers.

Let the people take care of business a little more and you will see crime decrease.

You can't even defend yourself these days without being charged.

Originally posted by Prowler33






My department has cut my pay, given me furlough days, taken away my overtime, my raises, and even cuts to my pension (yes, I did know that the job included low pay, dangerous conditions, and being the bottom of the totem pole, i'm not complaining). The one thing they cannot take away from me is my INTEGRITY. Taking money off a traffic stop or getting an extra "lick" in on a suspect is not worth me going to prison, embarrassing my family and most importantly losing my integrity.

You all should funnel your dissent against the New World Order and TPTB that create the laws benefiting the Elite and kick off the peaceful revolution this country so desperately needs!!!

edit on 3-4-2011 by Prowler33 because: classified

I cannot say that I disagree with your point of view, especially with your last sentance.........................but, with that said, would'nt it be more indictive of your INTEGRITY to help us in the fight against the NWO and TPTB, and stop ENFORCING the laws that go against both your moral compass and the constitution?????

Parker

As a police man I have personally stood in 100+ degree heat to block off traffic so liberty minded people can peacefully MARCH and protest the tyrannies of the government, federal reserve, and other issues even as recent as the Libya/Egypt conflicts. I

With that said:

"Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.... And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!"

Okay maybe that was an extreme quote but A Few Good Men is on tv at the moment and reminded me of this thread.

Originally posted by servant2


We were taught, by a civilian self-defence instructor on a course that we are allowed to use a 'pre-emptive strike' when being threatened.

Do you believe that a citizen has the equal right to use a "pre-emptive strike" ?

You have acknowledged that yes there are some bad apples, but that dosen't make all leo's bad. I do agree, but, how many fellow officers have you turned in for being a bad apple?? Please do not state that you haven't witnessed it, the odds are stacked against you to deny that you never seen a fellow officer break the law' even if it was just speeding.....................Have you ever pulled over an on duty officer for not signaling a lane change??

when you have done these, and continue to do so on a regular basis, then I will agree that you are for the people and not just for the system..

Parker

reply to post by kevinunknown


I think you've got a lot of waking up to do. Law enforcement is another brick in the wall of the world we are born into. There is nothing natural about assault batons, handcuffs, police cars or prisons. It is part of the problem thrust upon us as we exit the womb. As long as we continue to accept the violent insanity that civilization and modern man is we cannot hope to rise above it.

Law enforcement is another form of 'muscle', enforcers. They are part of the chain of discipline and control put in place by those who lord over us. Candidates for law enforcement in America are carefully screened; their ideal candidate is physically aggressive, limited in IQ, and capable of carrying out commands without question. Ideal candidates come from families with history of law work; these people already have their minds made up, the cop/them against us mindset is already in place.

Law enforcement in most small American towns mainly serve to issue citations, fines and summons that will result in revenue for the court system. In crime-ridden city areas most serious crimes are solved through the use of paid informants and others looking to curry favor for self-benefit. Police like to view themselves as heroes; perhaps they've been watching too much TV.

There are deeply rooted psychological problems present in people who act on the desire to wield authority over others. Much is written on the subject, easy research.

Project Innocence is one of a few programs in America that offer last hope to prisoners who may be wrongly imprisoned. There are people being released regularly across the country as advanced forensic method results are used to have false convictions overturned. The under-publicized problem being exposed: law enforcement is quick to make the arrest & conviction. But they don't care enough to arrest the guilty party.

Mankind does not have to live this way. Police are another part of armed enforcers TPTB use for convenience. They are part of the problem, not the solution. I feel we should seek to strive for a better world, where people work together and get along. As long as we are under the thumb of government & religious manipulation we are being hindered from seeking our true path, our destiny. Mankind as a whole has been retarded from progressing for far too long. Sooner we remove the Iron Fist, sooner we can return to living with nature and seeking our bliss.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not rob this country blind and crash the economy into the abyss. Goldman Sachs and Ben Bernanke did.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not fill your kid's vaccinations with mercury. The Rockefellers and the AMA did.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not fire your children's teacher. The corrupt politicians that serve the Elite did.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not create the military industrial complex and send trillions of YOUR money to Raytheon, Halliburton, KBR, etc. Your federal government did.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not bring down the Twin Towers and WTC 7. Bush & CI-AlQaeda did

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not reshape american healthcare into a new form of slavery to Big Pharma and Insurance companies. Barry Soetoro did.

Deputy Dan and your local cop did not create the ban on automatic weapons. The puppets of congress in 1986 did.

Your anger should be directed at the Banksters and the Puppetmasters. The police are peacekeepers, not soldiers. We are not here to enslave you. Protest peacefully for your constitutional rights and we will ensure that your civil rights are protected. Just look at Wisconsin! The police were right there in the chambers protesting along side with the innocent victims of the tyrannical and corrupt government!

Originally posted by Prowler33
Your anger should be directed at the Banksters and the Puppetmasters. The police are peacekeepers, not soldiers. We are not here to enslave you. Protest peacefully for your constitutional rights and we will ensure that your civil rights are protected. Just look at Wisconsin! The police were right there in the chambers protesting along side with the innocent victims of the tyrannical and corrupt government!

Pontius Pilate was just keeping the peace also.

Keeping peace is not what Police are about. They are "Law Enforcement", not peace keepers. If the Law says you cannot protest, Police will make sure you cannot protest. If the law says you cannot fish without a license, the Police will arrest you for doing so. If the law says you cannot smoke a medicinal plant, Police will do their part to ensure you do not.

There is no washing the hands this time around. If you are arresting people for freely exercising their free will, you are part of the machine.

If you do not want to be judged as part of the machine, join the rest of your Brothers and Sisters on the street.

As for needing you on the wall, the wall is coming down. Get off before the fall.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


You said it better than I ever could, as usual.


This is of course an extreme example............but could not the SS at the death camps have said the same thing......if you dont like what were doing take it up with Hitler......not us.

The cops might not be the people destroying the econemy, starting the wars, looting the country, etc......but they ARE the enforcement arm for those that do.........and to try to claim innocence is at best ignorant.......at worse a knowing lie.

I have one question for you. If there were no police in this world who would be running the show? Who would be making sure the law is obeyed?

the people..... but they would make sure it applies to everybody not just those below a certain position.

"In doing this however I think, we are ignoring the rights of the brave enforcers of the law as this thread will illustrate."

I've never met one of these Modern Day Knights of Olde. One of these 21'st century Samurai.

You know why?

Cause they don't exist.

Just like Knights and Samurai, the nobility of the ruling classes "enforcers", is fictional, manufactured as propaganda and if it were true, would be the worst thing for the governments and the wealthy in every single case.

I will confidently say that 98% of police that I have ever come in contact with are the type of men that I look down on and make fun of for having such low self esteem and such a lack of imagination, and a lack of ambition that they actively seek a mediocre role in society that gives them a false and inflated sense of authority because they lack the ability to generate their own personal authority on a daily basis.
They are bullies in waiting.

Enforcers are created as a subclass of society of enforce the will of the collective at the behest of some ruling class, which in every society on earth, have been since written history, corrupted by the power they take from the collective.

The history of humanity is a single story of good ideas, being taken over by greedy charismatic people and warped and tainted and then directed as a weapon against the masses that backed the good ideas, as a mechanism for power and greed, and control.

And in all cases a group of enforcers is plucked from the midst of the plebs and armed, and given imbalanced authority over their brothers for the purpose of keeping them in line, and protecting the ruling class from the eventual anger of the masses.


Law enforcement is a buffer between the people and the government. Meant to act as legal knee breakers and defacto tax collectors.

I felt I should add this ONE small example of how Police are treated VERY differently than the average citizen.
This is again just 1 small "public" example, I can only imagine all the incidents we never hear about similar to this...



I could fill 5 pages of a thread with these kind of examples and I'd only be going back no more than a few years.