To All Jews Who Are Under The Mistaken Belief That God Gave Them The Land Of Israel To The Exclusion

reply to post by starchild10


There is no such thing as "settlers" in Israel, they are indeed CITIZENS of Israel who should reside any where they see fit to build their homes.

As for your last comment.......

tell that to the last 2 remaining children of the parents and 3 little siblings who were brutally stabbed to death just recently!!!

reply to post by gdaub23


Actually, i have no issues with Jewish people or people of any other religion. Bible issues? Nope, simply used it as a reference. I spend a lot of time in Israel and recently through discussions with a few of my Israeli friends about their biblical claim to Palestinian land I decided to look into what they based it on. (biblical covenant) and discovered they were completely wrong. Didn't mean to give the impression you got.

Outside of the bible, is there any proof for the place called Israel or King David ?

From what i've seen there is no mention of Israel on any Roman maps of the period.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Well Lemon Fresh, The covenat is set by God Himself in chapter 24 of Genesis. The land is given to the seed or offspring of Abraham. The point is not whether or not anyone believes in the bible but that the Jews believe it was given solely to Jews. That of course is completely wrong as evidenced by C. 24 of Genesis. Whatever is said afterwards is said by men not God. Do a little reading of Genesis and you will gain some understanding.

reply to post by gdaub23


And that has what to do with a biblical claim to land?

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by starchild10

 

There is no such thing as "settlers" in Israel, they are indeed CITIZENS of Israel who should reside any where they see fit to build their homes.

As for your last comment.......

tell that to the last 2 remaining children of the parents and 3 little siblings who were brutally stabbed to death just recently!!!

Case in point. And what about the citizens whose homes built generations ago were bulldozed for those SETTLERS to reside anywhere they see fit? Do you honestly possess no empathy for the human beings suffering for the realization of such mythological delusion? Easy to say god gave it to them, but the fact that no proof of such a covenant ever has or ever will exist leads free thinking, compassionate people to believe that what is occurring is pure brutality against those without the means to protect themselves from it. There is no getting past that point.

reply to post by bluemirage5


No such thing as settlers? Really? Netanyahu calls them "settlers" Israel has a Settlers council. When anyone settles on land that they have NO legal right to they are naturally called "settlers" The whole world calls them settlers. Yours is the one lone voice that calls them "Citizens" Perhaps you meant Israeli citizens that have settled Palestinian land?

Originally posted by ken10
Outside of the bible, is there any proof for the place called Israel or King David ?

From what i've seen there is no mention of Israel on any Roman maps of the period.

It's quite well established by Roman and other historians that the Jews occupied that area for quite some time and Jerusalem was governed by Jews. The name for the Kingdom and the nation changed over time but they were certainly there.
A link to Wikipedia that links to various kingdoms under that name

Of course that doesn't mean that all that mythic stuff is real - but the people were certainly there and from time to time (sometimes for long periods of time) they had a kingdom right there

reply to post by JustSomeIdiot


That's not quite what i was asking...

There are many maps from the Romans that ruled that area at that time, So why is there not a place called Israel depicted......Its a simple question

reply to post by VariableConstant


There are NO settlers in Israel, only CITIZENS and foreign residents....

go join starchild & gem man; the quicker you three dig, the deeper the hole and maybe starchild will be your light bulb (rolls my eyes)

reply to post by ken10


NO Ken10, You will not find the name Israel on anything Roman as they identified the area as "Palestine" However, historically there was an israel alongside the State of Judah. Israel was contained in the northern part of modern Israel and Judah in the Southern part. They practiced a religion simular in some respects and different in others. Eventually the two religions merged into one. You can easily see the mergeing in the biblical story of Noah. There are literally two different stories skillfully weaved together.

reply to post by gem_man


If I recall, the "palestinians" identified themselves as such after the Six Day War in 1967

Now go find me this "Palestine" on any modern world map

oh, and while I'm at it.....name at least 2 Rabbis you had conversations with and I'll prove to other members you are telling porkies

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by VariableConstant

 

There are NO settlers in Israel, only CITIZENS and foreign residents....

go join starchild & gem man; the quicker you three dig, the deeper the hole and maybe starchild will be your light bulb (rolls my eyes)

Perhaps there are no settlers in Israel, but there are many in Palestine. The only hole I see being dug happens to be your own. The heartless position you espouse is abhorrent. Please think about what you are saying. Would your god really be proud of you?

reply to post by VariableConstant


I know exactly what I'm saying.....

now show me this "Palestine" on any modern world map

There are NO "palestinians" in the land of Israel, only Israelis, Arabs and foreigners

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by VariableConstant

 

I know exactly what I'm saying.....

now show me this "Palestine" on any modern world map

There are NO "palestinians" in the land of Israel, only Israelis, Arabs and foreigners

Strange, I have known many Palestinians. I have spent time in Gaza, and seen with my own eyes the grotesque conditions human beings are forced to live in as a result of the hubris of people such as yourself. I really don't think that you do know what you are saying, but I'm sure you believe what you are saying. Quite a difference.

In any event, there is no ground to be gained for anyone in a discussion like this. May you reap what you sow. Aloha.

The Nation of Israel is an abomination. It is not created by God or it would always have been there since the beginning. Israel means "Struggle with God" in Hebrew and rightly so. The formation of the Nation of Israel is Man's attempt to force the will of the divine. It is a nation formed by England and the United States to advance their resource crusade in the middle east. The people of Israel have turned their backs on God and his commandments to love God, and love their neighbor.

Israel will suffer greatly. Those who support Israel will suffer with her.

This is not to say that Islam is any more justified for the Arab countries have been equally lead away from obeying God's commandments. The whole middle east is a story of two Brothers fighting for the affections of their father. The father does not choose between his children. The two Brothers will either learn to love one another, or they WILL destroy one another.

Cain and Able playing out for all the world to see.

This world was not given to Man with borders and nations built upon it. It was given to Man as a gift for all to share. Support either side of a conflict and you will be drawn in. Condemn both for their conflict and leave them to suffer the wrath of their inner hatred.

A Jew is not a citizen of Israel nor is it a follower of Judaism. A Jew is one who submits to the will of God and obeys his commandments to love one another.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by bluemirage5


You add nothing to this discussion. Not one of your posts address the topic which is, incidently, the mistaken belief That being Jewish gives Jews a biblical right to the land. Now IF you can stay on topic address that!

reply to post by VariableConstant


I don't know what the hell you are going on about.......

the title of the thread is not a debate on the "palestinian" issue; I never brought the Arabs up, you did!

As for the conditions in Gaza.....start your own thread and I'll prove to you that more than half of the Gazans are not poor, NONE are starving and things are not quite as you want onlookers to know about.

Here's what the media won't tell you gulliable people:
israelseen.com...

Fish farming project in Gaza:
www.life.com...

Chicken farm project in Gaza:
www.life.com...

Here's the olympic size swimming pool in Gaza....
elderofziyon.blogspot.com...

Did you stay in any one of these fine Gazan hotels?
britanniaradio.blogspot.com...

Gaza's shopping mall:
palestinenote.com...

Look and READ this....Tony Blair's sister in law sucking it up in Gaza and refuses to tell the REAL truth:
www.think-israel.org...


Don't you EVER come in here and tell me or any other ATS members porkies because I know exactly whats going on in Gaza better than you do!!!!!!!

NOW.....show me just ONE photo of a Gazan starving.....of all those trips you made to Gaza, surely you have ONE single photo of a starving Gazan!!!

reply to post by gem_man


I said earlier, I would had debated you on your topic and given you the real facts but you down right told porkies in the first sentence of your original thread

The non-Zionist Torah True Orthodox Jews do not accept Israel. They say it goes against the Torah.
They say the Moshiach must first come, and Jews are to live around the world, and the creation of Israel was a Zionist act that is against True Judaism.