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Israel was involved in 911
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reply to post by Varemia
No it is not. Reasons are given, thats different. The official conspiracy theory is being repeated over and over, yet its not selling well, because many details and facts do not add up. So that old Gobbels quote works mostly only with an disinformed, not thinking public, something the people in the Reich were conditioned to do. Right now it is about looking into some information and verifying it. "i dont see the Israeli involvement" does not say anything. Its like saying every single Jew was in on it, nothing to back it up with. You would have to elaborate on why you think Israel wasnt involved this time. You should make your own thread though.
Back on topic according to wiki
In 1970, with the drawdown of the then-renamed Aerospace Defense Command, the Air Force released most of Stewart AFB back to civilian control.
Today, the former Stewart AFB is now Stewart International Airport. The old SAGE Direction Center (DC) blockhouse, still extant but with faded paint, is partially used by Bell Atlantic, and has a microwave tower on its roof. What appeared to be a radio transmitter or receiver site of typical USAF construction was seen on the ridge top east of the blockhouse, near the airport control tower. A few of the other buildings near the blockhouse were in use, but most appeared vacant. Baseball fields across the street were being used by Little League teams. The 4th floor of the old SAGE blockhouse still has plotting boards and other equipment left behind.
So it seems to be both, a private airport and also a hub for the national guard where c5 are being operated.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
No it is not. Reasons are given, thats different. The official conspiracy theory is being repeated over and over, yet its not selling well, because many details and facts do not add up. So that old Gobbels quote works mostly only with an disinformed, not thinking public, something the people in the Reich were conditioned to do. Right now it is about looking into some information and verifying it. "i dont see the Israeli involvement" does not say anything. Its like saying every single Jew was in on it, nothing to back it up with. You would have to elaborate on why you think Israel wasnt involved this time. You should make your own thread though.
Back on topic according to wiki
In 1970, with the drawdown of the then-renamed Aerospace Defense Command, the Air Force released most of Stewart AFB back to civilian control.
Today, the former Stewart AFB is now Stewart International Airport. The old SAGE Direction Center (DC) blockhouse, still extant but with faded paint, is partially used by Bell Atlantic, and has a microwave tower on its roof. What appeared to be a radio transmitter or receiver site of typical USAF construction was seen on the ridge top east of the blockhouse, near the airport control tower. A few of the other buildings near the blockhouse were in use, but most appeared vacant. Baseball fields across the street were being used by Little League teams. The 4th floor of the old SAGE blockhouse still has plotting boards and other equipment left behind.
So it seems to be both, a private airport and also a hub for the national guard where c5 are being operated.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 21-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
I think this post is a bit in error.
The conspiracy was pulled off by a organized global network of covert black operatives and white collar criminals. By pointing to this 'state' or that 'state' distracts attention from the 'network' itself and leads to the division into individualizes pieces that only complicate the puzzle.
However, I do agree with you that as a part of this network, intelligence operatives from multiple countries were involved, including Israel as well as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United States among others.
The conspiracy was pulled off by a organized global network of covert black operatives and white collar criminals. By pointing to this 'state' or that 'state' distracts attention from the 'network' itself and leads to the division into individualizes pieces that only complicate the puzzle.
However, I do agree with you that as a part of this network, intelligence operatives from multiple countries were involved, including Israel as well as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United States among others.
reply to post by Swing Dangler
That can be very true. Nobody said it was just israel or just the jews or just the zionists, but they seem to have been the ones most exposed or maybe the ISI and the Saudis are just better at keeping secrets and on that particular site, thats the info we have. For now I want to see how accurte the info is, maybe some is false, some is accurate but irrlelevant and some might be accuarate and tie in with other pieces of the puzzle.
That can be very true. Nobody said it was just israel or just the jews or just the zionists, but they seem to have been the ones most exposed or maybe the ISI and the Saudis are just better at keeping secrets and on that particular site, thats the info we have. For now I want to see how accurte the info is, maybe some is false, some is accurate but irrlelevant and some might be accuarate and tie in with other pieces of the puzzle.
edit on
21-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Cassius666
He correctly pointed out to you that his insurance policies had not been finalized on the day of 9/11/01 and you blew right by that little fact. One would think that if an intelligent person was going to be part of such a conspiracy, that they would ensure their insurance policy was complete.
www.nytimes.com...[ed itby]edit on 21-4-2011 by vipertech0596 because: needed to add
He correctly pointed out to you that his insurance policies had not been finalized on the day of 9/11/01 and you blew right by that little fact. One would think that if an intelligent person was going to be part of such a conspiracy, that they would ensure their insurance policy was complete.
Complicating the picture is the fact that there was no insurance policy yet issued on the properties when they were destroyed. Since the Port Authority transferred management of the properties to a group of investors led by Mr. Silverstein shortly before the attack, the insurance policy was under negotiation at the time the buildings collapsed and final wording had not been completed. The insurers have agreed to be bound by the ''binder'' agreements on the coverage although differences of opinion emerged yesterday about their interpretation.
www.nytimes.com...[ed itby]edit on 21-4-2011 by vipertech0596 because: needed to add
reply to post by vipertech0596
Well he got an insurance payout though. He actually sued and won to get twice the ammount, arguing that the 2 impacts represented tow separate attacks, so I dont know what to make of that article in the times.
I read the link and it does not say what either of you 2 said that it said. The policy was not issued yet, given the relatively short ammount of time between him taking owenrship of the WTC and bringing to therms the negotiation he did the best he could in the ammount of time he had. I guess taking out a billion dollar insurance on an object that has been "attacked" in the past isnt quite the same as insuring your 50k$ home.That the insurance policy was not finalized yet is an interesting detail that shouldnt be left out though.
Well he got an insurance payout though. He actually sued and won to get twice the ammount, arguing that the 2 impacts represented tow separate attacks, so I dont know what to make of that article in the times.
I read the link and it does not say what either of you 2 said that it said. The policy was not issued yet, given the relatively short ammount of time between him taking owenrship of the WTC and bringing to therms the negotiation he did the best he could in the ammount of time he had. I guess taking out a billion dollar insurance on an object that has been "attacked" in the past isnt quite the same as insuring your 50k$ home.That the insurance policy was not finalized yet is an interesting detail that shouldnt be left out though.
edit on 21-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason
given)
Yea according to this grand conspiracy he purchased the building. And in two weeks he had it wired up for demo. But forgot to finish the insurance
policy. Not really the characteristics of a man known for building real estate empire, is it.
reply to post by samkent
He didnt forget, he moved as fast as he could to get insurance policy. A multi billion dollar deal might take some time. Also he was one of many actors. In fact, he had the widsom to get some kinda of coverage, although the deal was not finalized yet. Why the hurry? Was he on a deadline? Did he really absofrickenloutely need to have coverage by 9/11 ? Would it really have been so bad if he was without coverage against terrorist attacks until the deal is finalized a few days after 9/11? Why was he in such a hurry?
He didnt forget, he moved as fast as he could to get insurance policy. A multi billion dollar deal might take some time. Also he was one of many actors. In fact, he had the widsom to get some kinda of coverage, although the deal was not finalized yet. Why the hurry? Was he on a deadline? Did he really absofrickenloutely need to have coverage by 9/11 ? Would it really have been so bad if he was without coverage against terrorist attacks until the deal is finalized a few days after 9/11? Why was he in such a hurry?
edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
To recap
1. Israel has a history of terrorism against the united states, perpetrated to blame it on any group of their chosing. Although Israel might have acted with the blessing of the US gov. (the uss liberty attack gives reason to suspect that) that part checks out.
2. The story about the messages received by Israelis as depicted on that particular site checks out as far as the information they present goes, but they ommit or were not aware of many details to that particular story.
3. Silverstein acquired the WTC lease in 1999 and took out the maximum terrorist insurance just weeks before the attack. Although the deal was not finalized yet and the insurance policy not issued yet, he had the widsom to get coverage under a binder agreement, a widsom that payed out well for him, seen as by 9/11 he had coverage although no insurance policy was issued yet. That part seems to check out. He also took the day off on the morning of 911, his children did not show up at the towers either.
4) The general information given about Frank Lowy seems to check out.
5.) The info given about Lewis Eisenberg seems to check out too.
Apparently the use of former Stewart Airforce base is not exclusively civillian. The National Guard seems to have multiple Wings there, mainly C5 Galaxy airplanes.
Anything to say about this? Untruths, Hoax, or is it all genuine?
1. Israel has a history of terrorism against the united states, perpetrated to blame it on any group of their chosing. Although Israel might have acted with the blessing of the US gov. (the uss liberty attack gives reason to suspect that) that part checks out.
2. The story about the messages received by Israelis as depicted on that particular site checks out as far as the information they present goes, but they ommit or were not aware of many details to that particular story.
3. Silverstein acquired the WTC lease in 1999 and took out the maximum terrorist insurance just weeks before the attack. Although the deal was not finalized yet and the insurance policy not issued yet, he had the widsom to get coverage under a binder agreement, a widsom that payed out well for him, seen as by 9/11 he had coverage although no insurance policy was issued yet. That part seems to check out. He also took the day off on the morning of 911, his children did not show up at the towers either.
4) The general information given about Frank Lowy seems to check out.
5.) The info given about Lewis Eisenberg seems to check out too.
He is the key individual who lobbied for the privatization of the WTC (Source, 9th pp) -- but he also got the former Stewart Air Force Base to become privatized. Oddly, the flight paths of flight 175 and flight 11 converged directly over this airport.
Apparently the use of former Stewart Airforce base is not exclusively civillian. The National Guard seems to have multiple Wings there, mainly C5 Galaxy airplanes.
WTC Security In Zionist Hands The second crucial aspect of control that needed to be established in order to pull off 9/11 was to gain control of security of the WTC complex. This way, Mossad explosive experts -- that just so happened to be in town just prior to and on 9/11 -- could be readily allowed access to strategic areas of the buildings in order to prep for the demolitions. The contract to run security at the WTC was designated to Kroll Associates after the 1993 wtc bombing. Kroll is otherwise known as "Wallstreets CIA". Who gave them the contract? The Port Authority of New York paid them $2.5 million to revamp security at the complex. The owners of Kroll was two Zionist Jews named Jules & Jeremy Kroll. The managing director of Kroll at the time was Jerome M. Hauer. Hauer was also the guy chosen to run Mayor Rudy Guiliani's office of emergency management( OEM) from 1996 to 2000. He is the key individual that pushed for this office to be placed in Silverstein's building 7. Jerome Hauer is also Jewish and a staunch Zionist. Hauer's mother, Rose Muscatine Hauer, is the retired Dean of the Beth Israel School of Nursing and the Honorary President of the New York Chapter of Hadassah, the Daughters of Zion movement that is one of the central Zionist organizations involved in the creation and maintenance of the State of Israel.
Anything to say about this? Untruths, Hoax, or is it all genuine?
edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Cassius666
1. Silverstein aquired the lease in July of 2001, not 1999. That checks out. The insurance requirements were not at his discretion, so his "wisdom" or lack thereof does not enter the equation. That checks out. He did not take the day off on 9/11, he went to the Dr. in the morning, that checks out. His children were not at the towers on 9/11 and neither were mine, that checks out.
3. Silverstein acquired the WTC lease in 1999 and took out the maximum terrorist insurance just weeks before the attack. Although the deal was not finalized yet and the insurance policy not issued yet, he had the widsom to get coverage under a binder agreement, a widsom that payed out well for him, seen as by 9/11 he had coverage although no insurance policy was issued yet. That part seems to check out. He also took the day off on the morning of 911, his children did not show up at the towers either.
1. Silverstein aquired the lease in July of 2001, not 1999. That checks out. The insurance requirements were not at his discretion, so his "wisdom" or lack thereof does not enter the equation. That checks out. He did not take the day off on 9/11, he went to the Dr. in the morning, that checks out. His children were not at the towers on 9/11 and neither were mine, that checks out.
reply to post by Cassius666
Why do you continue to lie?
If you can’t check one simple fact about the lease why should anyone believe you about your other information? You have been told several times the lease was signed July 2001 but you continue to spout 1999. Your investigative skills are flawed to the core.
What do you have against Jewish people?
3. Silverstein acquired the WTC lease in 1999 and took out the maximum terrorist insurance just weeks before the attack.
Why do you continue to lie?
If you can’t check one simple fact about the lease why should anyone believe you about your other information? You have been told several times the lease was signed July 2001 but you continue to spout 1999. Your investigative skills are flawed to the core.
What do you have against Jewish people?
reply to post by Cassius666
1. There has never been a single act of terrorism or war perpetrated by the Israeli government against the United States. That checks out. Israel has been an avid supporter of the United States and an unwaivering ally in the Middle East, that checks out. Even with full knowledge of the Holocaust there are still rabid anti-semites in the world, that checks out.
1. Israel has a history of terrorism against the united states, perpetrated to blame it on any group of their chosing. Although Israel might have acted with the blessing of the US gov. (the uss liberty attack gives reason to suspect that) that part checks out.
1. There has never been a single act of terrorism or war perpetrated by the Israeli government against the United States. That checks out. Israel has been an avid supporter of the United States and an unwaivering ally in the Middle East, that checks out. Even with full knowledge of the Holocaust there are still rabid anti-semites in the world, that checks out.
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Cassius666
1. Israel has a history of terrorism against the united states, perpetrated to blame it on any group of their chosing. Although Israel might have acted with the blessing of the US gov. (the uss liberty attack gives reason to suspect that) that part checks out.
1. There has never been a single act of terrorism or war perpetrated by the Israeli government against the United States. That checks out. Israel has been an avid supporter of the United States and an unwaivering ally in the Middle East, that checks out. Even with full knowledge of the Holocaust there are still rabid anti-semites in the world, that checks out.
No hooper that does not check out. I am starting to think you are not interested in the facts at all. I am starting to think you want your version of the facts to "win". Nobody is denying there is antisemitism in the world, but please do tell, what has antisemitism to do with the topic at hand? I am intrigued.
reply to post by samkent
I am going by the info of the site. Also why jewish people? Nowhere on the site does it say jewish people, it names names and shows faces thats neither in favor of difavour against jewish people, unless you hold the believe that a whole group of people should be held accountable for what members of this group do. Okay Silverstein signed the lease on July 2001, so it is understandable an insurance deal was not finalized by september. But he did have the widsom to get insurance under a binder agreement, just to be on the save side.
Also some fo you come across as kinda hostile. You should ask yourselfs, are you interested in what really happened or merely interested in championing the official conspiracy theory?
For the record I am not pushing a conspiracy theory, it isnt my fault mossad agents where were they were and did what they did. I am just looking into getting the facts straight, no need to get mad at ME. If you want to get mad at somebody for making jews look bad and guilty, start with the people who make jews look bad through their own actions.
edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
Please do not let us jump back and forth between the points. Lets go through the end of the list and then you have your chance to say anything on the
earlier points, when you did not before, else the thread gets confusing and derailed. Or make your own thread. It aint like you pay for it.
1.) is a well documented fact.
on 3. Silverstein signed the lease on July 24 2001 not in 1999.
Now still on to
Anything to say about that?
1.) is a well documented fact.
on 3. Silverstein signed the lease on July 24 2001 not in 1999.
Now still on to
WTC Security In Zionist Hands The second crucial aspect of control that needed to be established in order to pull off 9/11 was to gain control of security of the WTC complex. This way, Mossad explosive experts -- that just so happened to be in town just prior to and on 9/11 -- could be readily allowed access to strategic areas of the buildings in order to prep for the demolitions. The contract to run security at the WTC was designated to Kroll Associates after the 1993 wtc bombing. Kroll is otherwise known as "Wallstreets CIA". Who gave them the contract? The Port Authority of New York paid them $2.5 million to revamp security at the complex. The owners of Kroll was two Zionist Jews named Jules & Jeremy Kroll. The managing director of Kroll at the time was Jerome M. Hauer. Hauer was also the guy chosen to run Mayor Rudy Guiliani's office of emergency management( OEM) from 1996 to 2000. He is the key individual that pushed for this office to be placed in Silverstein's building 7. Jerome Hauer is also Jewish and a staunch Zionist. Hauer's mother, Rose Muscatine Hauer, is the retired Dean of the Beth Israel School of Nursing and the Honorary President of the New York Chapter of Hadassah, the Daughters of Zion movement that is one of the central Zionist organizations involved in the creation and maintenance of the State of Israel.
Anything to say about that?
edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Cassius666
What is so nauseating about your jew-bashing threads is that you try to pose as a reasonable investigator researching the facts.
But the stuff you wallow in and post on here is very far from reasonable and when the gross factual errors are pointed out to you , you just shrug and repeat them. The Larry Silverstein lease signing and insurance arrangements, the Odigo employees warning and the supposed, but unsupported, foreknowledge of the " dancing Israelis being cases in point. If you are looking into facts, as you claim, you could also look into the falsehood that Peter Zalewski was the atc controller with responsibility for the WTC flights on 9/11 and a previous Egyptair crash.
The wretched video you posted in your op begins with a list of people, some or all of whom are of jewish background, and it labels them all as " Jewish Zionists " as though that equates to " Child Murderer " but with no explanation or evidence as to what they are supposed to have done.
The miserable piece even includes some poor woman on an Oprah show saying that part of her jewish childhood involved devil worship and the sacrifice of babies. Are you seriously putting forward the proposal that devil worship and baby killing is a normal integral part of jewish culture which means they were definitely responsible for 9/11 ?
If you want to criticise Israel's foreign policy then go ahead. But stop dredging up the most putrid material you can find on youtube.
What is so nauseating about your jew-bashing threads is that you try to pose as a reasonable investigator researching the facts.
But the stuff you wallow in and post on here is very far from reasonable and when the gross factual errors are pointed out to you , you just shrug and repeat them. The Larry Silverstein lease signing and insurance arrangements, the Odigo employees warning and the supposed, but unsupported, foreknowledge of the " dancing Israelis being cases in point. If you are looking into facts, as you claim, you could also look into the falsehood that Peter Zalewski was the atc controller with responsibility for the WTC flights on 9/11 and a previous Egyptair crash.
The wretched video you posted in your op begins with a list of people, some or all of whom are of jewish background, and it labels them all as " Jewish Zionists " as though that equates to " Child Murderer " but with no explanation or evidence as to what they are supposed to have done.
The miserable piece even includes some poor woman on an Oprah show saying that part of her jewish childhood involved devil worship and the sacrifice of babies. Are you seriously putting forward the proposal that devil worship and baby killing is a normal integral part of jewish culture which means they were definitely responsible for 9/11 ?
If you want to criticise Israel's foreign policy then go ahead. But stop dredging up the most putrid material you can find on youtube.
reply to post by Alfie1
Sure, if somebody appears to be genuinely interested in the facts, he is a nauseating jewhater. How could I forget that? People like you remind me of mafiosi who claim to be persecuted because they are of Italian descent, when they have been caught redhanded doing mischief.
Sure, if somebody appears to be genuinely interested in the facts, he is a nauseating jewhater. How could I forget that? People like you remind me of mafiosi who claim to be persecuted because they are of Italian descent, when they have been caught redhanded doing mischief.
edit on 22-4-2011
by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by Alfie1
Sure, if somebody appears to be genuinely interested in the facts, he is a nauseating jewhater. How could I forget that? People like you remind me of mafiosi who claim to be persecuted because they are of Italian descent, when they have been caught redhanded doing mischief.edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
And the relevance of devil worship and baby sacrificing to your earnest 9/11 research is what exactly ?
Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by Alfie1
Sure, if somebody appears to be genuinely interested in the facts, he is a nauseating jewhater. How could I forget that? People like you remind me of mafiosi who claim to be persecuted because they are of Italian descent, when they have been caught redhanded doing mischief.edit on 22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
You know, it is possible to post without sounding like an egotistic jerk. Example:
"Sure, if somebody wants to investigate the idea that someone Jewish may have had a hand in 9/11, he is labeled a jewhater. That's just nonsense. The only reason I would be accusing anyone Jewish of doing anything would be if there was evidence that the person had done it, not that they were Jewish. Please stop being insulting, and I will respond in kind."
I, personally, am extremely tired of seeing people toting their views and beliefs as facts when they are opinions and ideas. If you want a real debate to happen, rather than a monkey-throw-poop storm, then act like a human being and stop being so crazy-sounding.
This goes for the non-truthers too. I've seen a lot of personal attacks going on, and they are unnecessary. (I know I'm not a mod, but I also feel that this shouldn't require mod attention. We are decent members, are we not? Why don't we act like it and take responsibility for our actions?)
reply to post by Varemia
I just took an real example out of the real world. The Italian mafia even tried to set up an Italo-american version of the adl. The tone on how I approached the tread was clear, there was no reason to call anybody a jewhater. It was all about the faces names and info presented on that particular site. Nowhere did I say that jews are genetically inferior have all big noses or any other antisemitic drivel, yet some people went ahead and pretended that was how I conducted myself. Also I moved the discussion to another thread that is more consistent with the opening post.
I just took an real example out of the real world. The Italian mafia even tried to set up an Italo-american version of the adl. The tone on how I approached the tread was clear, there was no reason to call anybody a jewhater. It was all about the faces names and info presented on that particular site. Nowhere did I say that jews are genetically inferior have all big noses or any other antisemitic drivel, yet some people went ahead and pretended that was how I conducted myself. Also I moved the discussion to another thread that is more consistent with the opening post.
edit on
22-4-2011 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Cassius666
Yes. Responsibility for security at the World Trade center was the responsibility of the Port Authority Police Department. Always was. Period. But I guess you think they are a zionist organization, right?
Anything to say about that?
Yes. Responsibility for security at the World Trade center was the responsibility of the Port Authority Police Department. Always was. Period. But I guess you think they are a zionist organization, right?
reply to post by Cassius666
And you still cling to the "maximum insurance" lie.....Sad......
Why is that?
And you still cling to the "maximum insurance" lie.....Sad......
Why is that?