We need a geoengineering forum..."Chemtrail" properly geoengineering, threads do not belong instan

Originally posted by DJW001
The problem is quite simple: some people just don't understand the difference between geo-engineering and "chemtrails." Geo-engineering is the theoretical capacity to artificially alter the Earth's climate on demand. "Chemtrails" are condensation trails that form at high altitude. Unable to comprehend their formation, some people have proposed vague conspiracy theories to account for them. Geo-engineering can and should be discussed in the "Science and Technology" and "Fragile Earth" forums. "Chemtrails" properly belong in the "Skunk Works" or "Grey Area" as there is no evidence to support any of the conspiracy claims.

edit on 1-4-2011 by DJW001 because: Edit to polish style.

Thank you for your input. Star on all your posts.

Most geoengineering threads posted there get put into skunkworks eventually from what I've seen. There seems to be no problem discussing any geoengineering with one exception: injecting aerosol particulates into the stratosphere. Which is odd considering almost all the geoengineering papers I've seen presented on ATS view this as the main way it is likely to get done.

please feel free to present any papers on geoengineering you might find here as well as the OP which you addressed.

I star all posts in my thread regardless of view until people troll.

I've been very busy for the last couple days and will be until Sunday when I hope to catch back up.

Cheers,
piano

Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by DJW001
The problem is quite simple: some people just don't understand the difference between geo-engineering and "chemtrails." Geo-engineering is the theoretical capacity to artificially alter the Earth's climate on demand. "Chemtrails" are condensation trails that form at high altitude. Unable to comprehend their formation, some people have proposed vague conspiracy theories to account for them. Geo-engineering can and should be discussed in the "Science and Technology" and "Fragile Earth" forums. "Chemtrails" properly belong in the "Skunk Works" or "Grey Area" as there is no evidence to support any of the conspiracy claims.

Thank you for your input. Star on all your posts.

Most geoengineering threads posted there get put into skunkworks eventually from what I've seen. There seems to be no problem discussing any geoengineering with one exception: injecting aerosol particulates into the stratosphere. Which is odd considering almost all the geoengineering papers I've seen presented on ATS view this as the main way it is likely to get done.

The reason why "geoengineering" gets chucked to skunkworks is, IMO, because it is invariably said to be happening right now in the form of chemtrails, and it is chemtrails that are the unproven and highly controversial theory - not the existence of study into geoengineering.

I agree the Fragile Earth forum is the place to discuss it in a rational manner - www.abovetopsecret.com...

but I'll bet a $ to a knob of goat dung that the 1st mention of chemtrails will see any such thread sent to skunk!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
The reason why "geoengineering" gets chucked to skunkworks is, IMO, because it is invariably said to be happening right now in the form of chemtrails, and it is chemtrails that are the unproven and highly controversial theory - not the existence of study into geoengineering.

I agree the Fragile Earth forum is the place to discuss it in a rational manner - www.abovetopsecret.com...

but I'll bet a $ to a knob of goat dung that the 1st mention of chemtrails will see any such thread sent to skunk!

Stared for your on topic, friendly post.

I view "chemtrails" like i view "illuminati"... they are overly conspiratorial word which distract.

There are GLOBALISTS, not illuminati, who have proven time and again they have no care for human life, but I don't see them as illuminated in any way. There is GEOENGINEERING which covers injection of aerosol particulates into the stratosphere, which most call chemtrails but which is not PROVEN to exist outside CIRCUMSTANTIAL and ANECDOTAL evidence... but there does seem to be a lot of it. What people like myself who believe it might be happening need to do is buckle down and get some hard scientific evidence such as the video with the weather balloon Mat provided. Researching illuminati or chemtrails leads you down the wrong path. But researching globalists such as the CFR and geoengineering lead you down the right path.

If you want to be taken serious you need to bring science papers for geoengineering or political papers for globalists. If we want to prove it's happening we need to find ways to analyze. The government will deny it until it's proven... unfortunately the burden of proof lies on us. Circumstantial evidence will only go so far.

Thank you and JW for the suggestion of posting fragile earth. I still think we need a forum for this for the reasons stated in my OP. Until then I will use fragile earth for any future geoengineering posts.

I would like to keep encouraging people to post the geoengineering studies they find. Mat and Burntheships are on fire finding all these wonderful resources!

Originally posted by pianopraze
What people like myself who believe it might be happening need to do is buckle down and get some hard scientific evidence such as the video with the weather balloon Mat provided. Researching illuminati or chemtrails leads you down the wrong path. But researching globalists such as the CFR and geoengineering lead you down the right path.

As long as you comprehend what it is they are saying and don't read stuff into them that isn't there.

OR...if you do want to speculate (which is fair enough too) - keep it as speculation, and don't start stating such speculation it as fact :/

You've undoubtably seen some of my stuff on various chemtrail threads....now if those discussions had been along the lines of "how soon could this be implemented" rather than " this (some proposal or other) is proof positive that chemtrails exist" I'd not have lost my cool quite so often

I would like to keep encouraging people to post the geoengineering studies they find. Mat and Burntheships are on fire finding all these wonderful resources!

I haven't seen Burntheships...but I agree Matty is a wizz at finding info on geoengineering........now if he'd only use some of that prodigious talent to understanding what he's found....oopps...OT....sorry...

Here's a nanotech study by the AirForce from 2009 where they are finding a way to add aluminum to jet fuel.

www.airmanonline.af.mil...

The research team recently produced aluminum nano-particles in the laboratory to test the material's ability to boost the energy content of aircraft fuel. Because the surface area of the aluminum dominates on the nano scale, the material is very reactive to air and water. The particles theoretically would boost the energy density of JP-8 jet fuel by 10 percent and increase its stability at higher temperatures.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
As long as you comprehend what it is they are saying and don't read stuff into them that isn't there.

OR...if you do want to speculate (which is fair enough too) - keep it as speculation, and don't start stating such speculation it as fact :/

You've undoubtably seen some of my stuff on various chemtrail threads....now if those discussions had been along the lines of "how soon could this be implemented" rather than " this (some proposal or other) is proof positive that chemtrails exist" I'd not have lost my cool quite so often

I haven't seen Burntheships...but I agree Matty is a wizz at finding info on geoengineering........now if he'd only use some of that prodigious talent to understanding what he's found....oopps...OT....sorry...

Start trolling I stop starring. You're not my 8 year old that I need to play "see how far we can push it".

You can find burntheships earlier in this post. I collected several of the links from other threads of her and reposted them in an earlier post also.

I think Mat understands more about this topic than I do. I spend more time making music and art (check out my art, the link is in my signature) than studying geoengineering. I'm more than a little overwhelmed right now in my real life, I can't wait to catch up on all the information on ATS, but ATS afterdark is coming on at 12, so I will stop listening threading then...

You can sometimes hear one of my songs on there ATS after dark at midnight EST. They've actually played it a few times now
Tonight ATS live After Midnight show thread link

Prince talks about chemtrails!!!!! I love when people are will to expose the truth even how threated they may be.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by vesqui1990


Thanks for the video link vesqui.

I suggest you try and use the term "aerosol dispersing/injection" or "solar radiation management (SRM)" or "aerial obscuration" instead of chemtrails. We find that those terms give more credibility to our statements than the word "chemtrails" does.

Here's an interesting study I found

Templated Synthesis of Aluminum Nanoparticles - A New Route to Stable Energetic Materials

www.dtic.mil...

Materials. Lithium aluminum hydride (LiAlH4), anhydrous aluminum chloride (AlCl3), titanium(IV) isopropoxide, and 1-methylpyrrolidine were supplied by Sigma-Aldrich. The solvents diethyl ether, THF, and hexane were carefully dried and freshly distilled over sodium metal before use. The 1-methylpyrrolidine alane, H3AlN[(C4H8)(CH3)], was prepared according to the previously reported procedure.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
Here's a nanotech study by the AirForce from 2009 where they are finding a way to add aluminum to jet fuel.

www.airmanonline.af.mil...

The research team recently produced aluminum nano-particles in the laboratory to test the material's ability to boost the energy content of aircraft fuel. Because the surface area of the aluminum dominates on the nano scale, the material is very reactive to air and water. The particles theoretically would boost the energy density of JP-8 jet fuel by 10 percent and increase its stability at higher temperatures.

The article says it is being done to increase fuel efficiency - get more thrust for your fuel - which is what aluminium is used for in rocket fuel too.

So what has it to do with chemtrails? Is it being done to poison us? To amplify HAARP? To reflect sunlight??

Was this happening 15 years ago?

why aren't these chemtrails visible all the time? Shouldn't you be more concerned about the amount of aluminium that this will release at ground level concentrated around airports??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Those are some good questions I would like to have the answer too...

Also are we poisoning ourselves with deodorant and other products with aluminum in them?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


As usual you are here to distract from the topic of the OP. This is not a chemtrail thread.

It is a Geoengineering thread and also a thread seeking a new forum for Geoengineering.

I already answered your question in a different thread. So why are you spamming the same question here again?

No one here has claimed to know how or why the "persistent contrails" are happening. We only claim that it is not normal from we all used to see and how contrails of the past behave.

Abnormal amounts of aluminum have been found and the study that shows aluminum nano particles being added to jet fuel might help explain some of the new phenomenon we see with "persistent contrails"

"Persistent contrails" are having an effect that is very similar to proposed geoengineering techniques. It's not a very far leap to suggest that there is a connection between the two.

More nanotech for geoengineering, I find these studies and inventions to be very interesting. They are not that easy to understand but these tiny particles might play a big role in our future.

Nano particles being developed for CO2 sequestration.

pubs.acs.org...

Increasing atmospheric CO2 levels have generated much concern, driving the ongoing carbon sequestration effort. A compelling CO2 sequestration option is its photocatalytic conversion to hydrocarbons, for which the use of solar irradiation represents an ultimate solution.

This has nothing to do with "chemtrails" Aloysius..so there's no need to ask "what does this have to do with chemtrails". However it might have a strong connection to Geoengineering CCS, CDR and SRM techniques.

CCS = carbon capture sequestration

CDR = carbon dioxide removal

SRM = solar radiation management
EDIT:
www.dtic.mil...

why aren't these chemtrails visible all the time? Shouldn't you be more concerned about the amount of aluminium that this will release at ground level concentrated around airports??

This fuel is only being used in military and maybe some private aircraft as far as I know.

The aluminum nano particles create a hydrogen gas when mixed with certain liquids. That hydrogen gas can be used as fuel.

I also think it would be a great idea to have a forum dedicated to Geoengineering in order to study and document this phenomena.

I just found this little commentary from Michael J Murphy about (SAG) Stratospheric Aersol Geoengineering

www.rense.com...

What Are They Spraying Us With? - Pt II
Could Aluminum, Barium and Other Substances From Stratospheric Aerosol
Geo-Engineering Programs be Destroying Eco-Systems around the World?
By Michael J. Murphy
4-11-10

Because this movement has come under attack from those who appear to be protecting the many political and corporate interests associated with SAG, it is essential that all of us around the world get involved by testing the rain, snow, soil and various outdoor surfaces and reporting the results to our elected officials and local environmental agencies. We must also reach out and educate all those involved with SAG who might be unaware of the environmental implications associated with their programs. Testing for pH changes and metals is simple and can be performed almost anywhere at a nominal price.

Simple testing instructions and more information about geo-engineering programs can be found on the internet at www.geoengineeringwatch.org... geoengineeringwatch.org. Biologist Francis Mengels can be contacted by e-mail at [email protected] for more information on this issue, the tests he has performed and suggestions on testing procedures. Please take action by testing, reporting and demanding answers on this ever so important issue. Both nature and humanity depend on it. For more information, please contact me at [email protected] or visit my blog: truthmediaproductions.com...

(SAG) Data page at rense.com

www.rense.com...

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
CCS = carbon capture sequestration

CDR = carbon dioxide removal

SRM = solar radiation management

Thanks for giving these definitions, I forgot to the other night when I was typing back and forth with JW...

I meant to and totally forgot to. The terms are frequently mentioned throughout the geoengineering research but most people would be scratching their head reading those...

Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I also think it would be a great idea to have a forum dedicated to Geoengineering in order to study and document this phenomena.

Welcome and thank you for the encouraging words

I do really think it needs a forum of it's own. As many have pointed out there is a log of great info on geoengineering and there is a lot of solid science on aerosol particulates as a possible engineering application. The question is not if, but when they will or have started it according to the way they frame the discussion.... "it's a necessary evil, someone's going to do it, so we must be in control"... is how the CFR framed their discussion as I pointed above not.. "we must stop this"...

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

As usual you are here to distract from the topic of the OP. This is not a chemtrail thread.

It is a Geoengineering thread and also a thread seeking a new forum for Geoengineering.

I already answered your question in a different thread. So why are you spamming the same question here again?

Except, you are already crossing the lines:

Obviously any of the debunkers who have said geoengineering has nothing to do with chemtrails is not aware of any of the real facts and actual arguments behind the "chemmies" positions.

Who would've guessed?

reply to post by jdub297


Did you have a point you were trying to make?

What is it? Please state a coherent hypothesis.

Your incoherent ramblings are quite confusing, did you forget how to put words together to form sentences with actual meaning?

What is the purpose behind your comment?? Come on be honest now. Do you even have a purpose?

reply to post by pianopraze


You're welcome, I have trouble remembering all the different acronyms used in these report too.

Seems to be one of the methods of being "transparent" yet still not overt.

I think it's kind of sneaky the way they word everything in these reports.

I completely agree with you OP. I guess the litmus test will be when someone starts a thread using 'geoengineering' in a forum other than 'skunk works', and we will see whether it is allowed to stay.

I have seen some other, much less plausible subjects be allowed to stay in other forums....I'm honestly not sure what the problem is with 'chemtrail' threads. I've asked and the reply I got from site owner was basically, a circular argument. It's in SW because SW is for highly speculative topics. When it was pointed out there are much more highly speculative topics in other forums, the reply was repeated. When I asked for clarification the thread was closed!!

Perhaps this is the way forward for this very important topic.