We need a geoengineering forum..."Chemtrail" properly geoengineering, threads do not belong instan

I'm posting this here in skunkworks as I have no clue where else to post it, it seems like all posts on geoengineering are moved here anyways.

I thought "chemtrails" were a hoax. I've been in a few threads now where geoengineering has been discussed and changed my mind. I use geoengineering as those who want to seriously study it will find all the real scientific papers and political papers under geoengineering not "chemtrails." I think the vernacular should be changed by all who want to forward the debate as using "chemtrail" shoots the argument in the foot as searches on "chemtrails" do not come up with the scientific papers.

I find the evidence compelling even if it does not provide conclusive proof. There are several theories that provide circumstantial evidence. This is a site which caters to the conspiracy theories according as is written in several places. Well.. this is a conspiracy theory with much more evidence than many on this site. Just because many view the evidence differently does make it any less valid.

I find several forums on ATS that have a lot less debate than geoengineering much more speculative with much less data. I know a lot of the mods and people who pay for and run ATS view geoengineering as nothing but a hoax, but there are a lot of us (and I just switched to this view) who think there is something to this and it deserves to be discussed.

I don't know 100 percent geoengineering has begun. But I do know they are planning it, and it's a mater of "when, not if" according to their own words. So this needs to be addressed in a much broader way.

There are no end of threads on this topic. There are a lot more threads on this than there are on "conspiracy theorists" for example. I humbly submit it deserves it's own forum. If I can shoot for the moon (not sure this is even possible) it deserves two mods also - one from each side to moderate the other. ATS has wonderful mods, not suggesting it doesn't. But I think this would deescalate an oft expressed feeling of one-sidedness many have expressed in the way some situations have been handled.

I've not seen another subject as hotly debated. Which is even more of a reason it needs it's own forum. You want to draw outside people into ATS... well... this is a big draw. It is a conspiracy many of the non conspiracy minded are drawn to also. So maybe it can enhance the bottom line as well by having a easy to access forum which does not scare away people with being branded as skunkworks.

Thanks as always for providing a wonderful site and all you do!

reply to post by pianopraze


Good post OP S&F. I agree with you. I saw a documentary with a woman named Rosalyn Peterson. She expresses some of the same concerns. She is the founder of Skywatch California. It was based on the geoengineering aerosol spray activities in my area. It's about an hour long but lots of good info.

EDIT:
In the first 10 minutes she describes how she was asked to be a key note speaker at the UN and she also talks about the SCOOL program by NASA.

Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch was a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. She now spearheads a watchdog group that monitors uncontrolled experimental weather modification programs, atmospheric heating and testing programs, and ocean and atmospheric experimental geoengineering programs Peterson is at the forefront of the chemtrail research field and how the unexplained patterns that scar our skies are "causing detrimental human health effects and environmental degradation."

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I was watching the video. Starting around 8:00 she starts to say how she refuses to use the term chemtrail and only uses geoengineering. And how she is getting invited to nasa etc now and taken seriously.

I think this is vital to this debate. We must switch the discussion away from chemtrail to geoengineering. Language is everything. As in the written words perception is based upon vernacular. Word choice shows educational level.

reply to post by pianopraze


I agree, using the term chemtrail seems to immediately place a tinfoil hat on yourself. Although I still think that I'd rather where a tinfoil hat than breathe chemtrails.

Slightly off topic but ........

The Tinfoil hat lady seems pretty smart to me



A little knowledge and comedy from the Tinfoil hat lady

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


This video you presented is absolutely the way we need to go.

"they tried to keep geoengineering out of the public. they admitted they kept it out of the textbooks" wow! This woman is amazing. One of the best videos on geoengineering I've seen! She goes into how to change the discussion to geoengineering very well.

We have got to shift the whole discussion to geoengineering to expose this and stop using "chemtrail".

Ats really needs a forum on geoengineering because, as the video points out. There are a lot of geoengineering experiments going, not just aerosol spraying.

reply to post by pianopraze


I agree with you that there should be a forum all itself for this topic. I have noticed a few threads on Geoengineering in the fragile Earth forum. If chemtrails is not the main topic of th OP they seem to do ok and not get moved.

Did you see the reason I think chemtrails is in the skunk works section?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3a2fdee445b2.png[/atsimg]

SKUNK WORKS

en.wikipedia.org...

Skunk Works is an official alias for Lockheed Martin’s Advanced Development Programs (ADP), formerly called Lockheed Advanced Development Projects. Skunk Works is responsible for a number of famous aircraft designs, including the U-2, the SR-71 Blackbird, the F-117 Nighthawk, and the F-22 Raptor. Its largest current project is the F-35 Lightning II, which will be used in the air forces of several countries around the world. Production is expected to last for up to four decades. The designation "skunk works", or "skunkworks", is widely used in business, engineering, and technical fields to describe a group within an organization given a high degree of autonomy and unhampered by bureaucracy, tasked with working on advanced or secret projects.

other geoengineering techniques
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/118a56273d6f.jpg[/atsimg]

Another one of the very dangerous Geoengineering techniques is the algae blooms. It tampers with the natural balance of the Oceans ecosystem. The "concept" (I call it a concept even though we have seen some strange appearences of algae blooms in some areas over the years recently) is to genetically modify algae so it absorbs extra carbon particles from the air. But the effects have been shown to be dangerous. The modified algae is eaten by plankton which is then eaten by fish. Some of those fish end up dying because they have a large build up of methane gas in their stomaches due to the extra carbon in the plankton that ate the algae. Some of the large fish die offs can be blamed on this. Although there is no actual "proof"

www.krqe.com...

An estimated 1 million fish turned up dead on Tuesday in a Southern California marina, creating a floating feast for pelicans, gulls and other sea life and a stinky mess for harbour authorities. Boaters awakened to find a carpet of small silvery fish surrounding their vessels, said Staci Gabrielli, marine coordinator for King Harbor Marina on the Los Angeles County coast. Authorities said there was also a layer of up to 1.5 feet (0.46 metres) of dead fish on the bottom of the marina. All indications are that "this is unusual but a naturally occurring event," said Andrew Hughan, a Fish and Game spokesman at the scene.

reply to post by pianopraze


Although I agree, ATS admin will argue that Skunkworks is a reputable forum though many would disagree..

Heck, if the Japan issue gets it's own forum then why not Geoengineering/Chemtrails ??

reply to post by backinblack


I'm sure there are as many threads on "chemtrails", which I again say we should stop using and insert geoengineering as it is the term scientists and politicos use, as japan.

@Mat I happen to like the term skunkworks. The problem is those who deny geoengineering make fun of the subject because it is put here by moderators. I could post quotes where key individuals practically parrot a school yard mantra "skunk works skunk works"...

I hope this discussion does bring about some positive results.

Many threads on Geoengineering are left to stand in the other forums, as they should be.

Anything less is a travesty, as geoengineering is real, has been carried out already to some degree.

Proof of that is here in this thread, even has an article from Reuters:

United Nations Urged To Freeze Climate Geo Engineering Projects

[Size=4]U.N. Urged To Freeze Climate Geo Engineering Projects
www.reuters.com

The United Nations should impose a moratorium on "geo-engineering" projects such as artificial volcanoes and vast cloud-seeding schemes to fight climate change, green groups say, fearing they could harm nature and mankind.

The risks were too great because the impacts of manipulating nature on a vast scale were not fully known, the groups said at a major U.N. meeting in Japan aimed at combating increasing losses of plant and animal species.

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

.
We have got to shift the whole discussion to geoengineering to expose this and stop using "chemtrail".

I agree, however...the professional debunkers will not stand for that, as once the terms are correct, their argument is all but lost. They will bring the word into the argument., the goal being to discredit.

Geoengineering is real, its billions a year of industry, and its not going away.

The Powerful Coalition That Wants To Engineer The World's Climate

A Future Tense Event: Geoengineering The Horrifying Idea Whose Time has Come?


And we can not ignore the fact that the idea of modified planes, part of the scheme to release stratoshperic aerosols has been proposed, and is the preferred method, according to the Elite Royal Society.

But the option that is taken most seriously is altogether grander in conception and scale. The scheme proposes nothing less than the transformation of the chemical composition of the Earth's atmosphere so that humans can regulate the temperature of the planet as desired. Like volcanic eruptions, it involves injecting sulphur dioxide gas into the stratosphere to blanket the Earth with tiny particles that reflect solar radiation.

Various schemes have been proposed, with the most promising being adaptation of high-flying aircraft fitted with extra tanks and nozzles to spray the chemicals. A fleet of 747s could do the job.

Above Top Secret

www.guardian.co.uk

royalsociety.org
www.pnas.org
www.guardian.co.uk

reply to post by burntheships


Post after post you amaze me with the shere quantity and quality of your information.

Between you and mat I've changed my mind on this whole issue.

Black is more tenacious than I am, I weary of posting so much and don't have the emotional energy to respond like he does.

We must switch the fight to geoengineering turf. Otherwise we are fighting on the geoengineering denyer's ground and they can more easily manipulate the argument towards tinfoilhatitus.

As you all have so eloquently demonstrated here is the hard science papers. Here are the political actions. Here is where the fight needs to take place. We need to, like the lady in Mat's video, refuse to use the term chemtrail and always shift to geoengineering.

reply to post by pianopraze


Its true, the facts are all in plain sight.

Scientifc papers, Elite societys, mad scientists, politicians...carbon tax....
its all right there in black and white.

Yet I am amazed, thread after thread of pages and pages of back and forth semantics.



Guess some like the game...

I however just like to collect all of the documents, the articles...and the proof.

So that someday, when its revealed that this was already underway...there will be vindication.

Lets just throw this into the mix, as last time I checked this info had not even been posted on ATS
anywhere.

At an international symposium held in Ghent, Belgium May 28-30, 2010, scientists asserted that “manipulation of climate through modification of Cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory.” It is “fully operational” with a solid sixty-year history. Though “hostile” environmental modification was banned by UN Convention in 1978, its “friendly” use today is being hailed as the new savior to climate change and to water and food shortages. The military-industrial complex stands poised to capitalize on controlling the world’s weather. “In recent years there has been a decline in the support for weather modification research, and a tendency to move directly into operational projects.” ~World Meteorological Organization, 2007 real-agenda.com...

The only conspiracy surrounding geoengineering is that most governments and industry refuse to publicly admit what anyone with eyes can see. Peer-reviewed research is available to anyone willing and able to maneuver the labyrinth of scientific journals. So, while there is some disclosure on the topic, full public explanation is lacking. A brief list of confirmed cloud seeding events is produced at bottom, starting in 1915.

Going under a variety of names – atmospheric geoengineering, weather modification, solar radiation management, chemical buffering, cloud seeding, weather force multiplication – toxic aerial spraying is popularly known as chemtrails. However, this is merely one technique employed to modify weather. The practice of environmental modification is vast and well funded.real-agenda.com...

Case Orange Report rejects the use of the word "Chemtrails" precisely becuase it is associated with ameteur conspiracy theories.

This is why the professional debunkers like the word, its a stumbling block.
They throw it out there, and people trip.

Hopefully, many here on ATS will read this, and correct the language that contributes to the semantics.