Lost Cities and the states of Atlantis

Hi all,

Just wondering, has anyone heard of the following Ancient/Lost Cities:

Nimrol (a buried city in Egypt)
Ochunini (another buried city in Egypt)
Tridoia

...and the following seven states of Atlantis:

Artelmis
Trigas (also known as Poseidon)
Labruula
Apotemics
Nochs
Talenos (later called Astroeth)
Antipolinos

Currently doing a bit opf research on these.

Cheers

JS

We dont even know if Atlantis was real. Plato couldve been making it up for all we know. We never met him.

Im currently reading abook about atlantis and it is a book that has changed my thoughts completely about the world.
It talks about Plato's description of altlantis and what happened during the existence of the great Atlanteans.

what book would that be? i'd like to check it out

Originally posted by jumpspace
Hi all,

Just wondering, has anyone heard of the following Ancient/Lost Cities:

Nimrol (a buried city in Egypt)
Ochunini (another buried city in Egypt)
Tridoia

do you have any links to any information on these cities, i searched in google and came up empty, thx

I think Nimrol might actually be Nimrod. Is that the city you were talking about?

The only shred of evidence we have of an Atlantis even existing is predicated from Plato's Kritas, and though he mentions that the Atlanteans did trade extensively he only names the home island city and does not mention any of their trading partners. Lost antlantean cities in egypt are very improbable because the Egyptians faught a documented war against an invading sea people who were fleeing their sunken home land, these sea people being presumably Atlanteans. The Egyptians won the war and drove the invaders back into the sea taking a handful of captives. Therefor any existance of Atlanteans having outposts in Egypt is slim. I think its best if we think of Atlantis as any other Bronze Age civilization who may have been adept sea farers more so then their egyptian, greek, and trojan counterparts. When viewed from this perspective the story of Atlantis is far easier to swallow.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by IndianaJoe]

Is it not true that the Vedas speak of the Atleantians ? I do remember this somewhere.

Deep

I hate to seem dumb or ignorant but who are the Vedas?

The Hindu scriptures.
www.sivanandadlshq.org...
www.san.beck.org...
www.sacred-texts.com...

Ps. You don't sound dumb, lol.

Deep

Ochunini.........Ochus?

Upon the death of Artaxerxes the Persian throne was seized by a son who assumed the name of Xerxes(II) and then by a half brother of his who murdered him and then was murdered in his turn. Arsames was instrumental in securing the throne for Ochus, who renamed himself Darius(II); chroniclers called him Nothus, a bastard, since he was the illegitimate son of the late king.

-taken from Immanuel Velikovsk's Peoples of the Sea, 1977.


But I tend to see the Atlantis lengend coming from a different perspective. Here are a few names I think would fit the literal lost Island.

The Quiche Maya creation myth

users.erols.com...

In Tulan-Zuiva, the Place of the Seven Caves and the Seven Ravines...
(The source of the place where the peoples came from.)

Other names that I have come across associated near Zuiva's location within Atlan or Tulan are:

Pirhua (The Parana River of South America derive its name from this?)
Teocalli (associated with Teotihuacan and the celebration of Izcalli?)

Distant cities of refuge after Atlan's fall?

Surchi
Yonga

Submerged, extinct volcanoes of the time?

Kopalt
Noraghi

Altantis (the continent) was/is South America. It's the capital city that sank (see Altiplano)..

As for these

...and the following seven states of Atlantis:

Artelmis
Trigas (also known as Poseidon)
Labruula
Apotemics
Nochs
Talenos (later called Astroeth)
Antipolinos

I would suggest researching ancient/alternate names for South American countries/city states....

Originally posted by IndianaJoe
The only shred of evidence we have of an Atlantis even existing is predicated from Plato's Kritas,

And the timeas no? Also, apparently there is an older text by a chap named Hellanicus thats actually called "Atlantis"

The people here might find this usenet post interesting and relevant, its long, and is also where the hellanicus reference comes up very breifly.

makeashorterlink.com...
and another here
makeashorterlink.com...

and though he mentions that the Atlanteans did trade

Plato mentions them as having a world spanning empire (at least most of the world known at the time), not a trading emporium per see. Its also important to keep in mind that Plato mentions that Athens is the only city free from atlantean rule, which is just plain ludicrous. Athens was not a city that could at any time fend off a gobal empire on its own, and certainly not in the extremely early age that atlantis is -said- to exist in.

Lost antlantean cities in egypt are very improbable because the Egyptians faught a documented war against an invading sea people who were fleeing their sunken home land, these sea people being presumably Atlanteans.

Well, lost atlantean cities in egypt are improbably for a few reasons, unfortunately the conflict with the 'Sea Peoples' is not one of them. Thats an historic conflict, no one is certain where they came from but no one at the time seemed to think they were atlanteans or that they had even come from a sunken homeland. Keep in mind that plato tells the story as having been told to Solon by the egyptians. The egyptians certainly wouldn't confuse the 'Sea Peoples' with any atlanteans. Also note that the Atlanteans, acoording to the myth, ruled egypt. They weren't defeated by it.

I think its best if we think of Atlantis as any other Bronze Age civilization who may have been adept sea farers more so then their egyptian, greek, and trojan counterparts.

Even if one allows the existence of atlantis, placing it in the bronze age is probably untenable. We have lots of evidence for the existence of bronze age civilizations and their interactions, and none for this atlantic empire controlling europe and north africa and the med. island and even asia minor and the levant. Also, I think, and I may be recalling incorrectly here, but I think that plato put the estimate of the age of atlantis so far back that its out of the Bronze Age.

Many things may have been lost in the translation....the age being one of them... Many believe the age of 900 years, not 9000, due to a simple tranlslation error. Also, yes, it must be considered that Plato would elevate Athens in his tales, as he was Greek. I've read the dialogue many times, and I do not recall a claim of Atlantis ruling Egypt... Do a google search on Atlantis Altiplano. Read it, then see if you disagree...

I read an interesting book about the theory that Cuba was part of the lost continent (I.E the top of what would have been a mountain). Originally the Spanish called it Antilles....suggesting that they may have thought so too. Another theory is that the reason nobody can find Atlantis is because it was everywhere...representing an era (b4 the end of the ice-age?) as much as a continent.

The most recent scientific analysis of the Meditteranean coast indicates that the geophysical description of Atlantis' land was actually the cote d'azure, now known as Cannes, Nice and other tony places along the northern Med coast. Remember Grace Kelly? She was the late queen who lived in this area.

Sorry, Atlantis-followers. The mystery is over. Some civilization did live in other areas now underwater but most of those have been identified and they weren't Atlantis.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I've read the dialogue many times, and I do not recall a claim of Atlantis ruling Egypt.

Plato had said that the Atlanteans ran everything, that Atlantis was the seat of an empire, and that only the Athenians were free.

Do a google search on Atlantis Altiplano. Read it, then see if you disagree

Well, I haven't seen any evidence that supports the idea of ancient cross atlantic communications (trade, migration, etc), so I just can't buy the idea that Atlantis was in a place that neither plato nor any one else in the 'old world' ever heard of. I -do- keep an open mind on the subject tho, but I really need convincing evidence for all of this.


Honestly tho, no one goes out looking for the site of 'The Republic'. Why Atlantis? I think that he used this idea as the setting for another 'ideal' state. However, I do agree that that's not a perfect explanation. Why include any mention of athens if it was just a 'fairy tale'? And one can find other problems with this idea. None of that tho supports the idea that it was an actual place.

I think that the most promising or at least interesting thing to happen recently wrt atlantis is the underwater topography done around Cyprus. However, thats -just- topography, there hasn't been any actual archaeological work done there yet.

All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

So the question is: should this be interpreted inclusively? Maybe it stopped at Egypt? But let's just check this out real fast. Suppose that it was 900 years before, not 9000. I have to go right now, so could somebody else tell us what was going on in Egypt around 1800 BC, give or take 100 years?

It just came to me... Gades is supposed to be named for an Atlantean king, but it was actually a colony of Tyre. So, this would mean Atlantis held Tyre, and that would mean that if the legend in true, which we can't just assume that it is, then Atlantis would have been the ruler of most of Northern Africa and the eastern Med. including Egypt.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

[i am assuming this is from plato]All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

Maybe it stopped at Egypt?

Then there wouldn't be any reason to include any part of greece. I assume by tyrrhenia he meant etruria (aka modern tuscany?)

Suppose that it was 900 years before, not 9000. I have to go right now, so could somebody else tell us what was going on in Egypt around 1800 BC, give or take 100 years?

900 years before plato would be 1300 bc no?

From the wikipedia
1300's:
Cecrops II, legendary King of Athens dies after a reign of 40 years and succeeded by his son Pandion II. His brother Metion leads a successful revolt by Nobles to gain control of Athens and most of Attica, Greece while Cecrops becomes reigns from Megara.
1303 BC - Seti I becomes Pharaoh of Egypt.
*****
19th century BC
Hittite empire in Anatolia
1829 - 1818 BC -- Egyptian-Nubian war
1818 BC -- Egyptian Campaign in Palestine
1813 BC -- Amorite Conquest of Northern Mesopotamia
1800 BC -- Hittite invasion of Anatolia
and
Rule of Amenemhat III of Egypt

this webpage
makeashorterlink.com...
notes

Second dynasty of Babylon
First Bantu migrations from west Africa
Hittite Old Kingdom in Anatolia (1900 BC)
Civilization in Palestine (1800 BC)
Middle Kingdom in Egypt (2052�1570 BC)
Egyptian domination over Palestine and Syria (1600�1360 BC)
Conquest of Canaan (Palestine) by the Israelites
Mycenaean civilization (c. 1600 BC�1200 BC)
Athens founded (1235 BC)
Beginnings of Judaism (1200 BC)
Olmec civilization in Mesoamerica (1150 BC)
Fall of Troy (1184 BC)

Significant people:
Hammurabi, king of Babylon (1792�1745 BC)
Pharaohs Akhenaton and Rameses II of the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt
Shalmaneser I, king of Assyria (1274�1275 BC)
Saul, King of Israel

Inventions, discoveries, introductions:
Indians developed caste system
Horse domesticated
Chinese record the earliest known sighting of a comet

So it doesn't look like any sort of hemispherical empire is going to work out here, certainly the nations existing in these areas wouldn't exist.

here is a link on that king, it (along with a link on it) mentions he was worshipped as a god later on in the roman period in some places and his temple complex was called 'the labyrnth' by some of the greeks
makeashorterlink.com...

It just came to me... Gades is supposed to be named for an Atlantean king, but it was actually a colony of Tyre.

The wikipedia under 'gades' /cadiz lists it as being called that because its phonecian for 'walled city' (gadir). It mentions tradition says it was founded in 1100 bc, archeology has the earliest remains in the 9th century bc, and that local tradition has the founder as Hercules, and it notes that there was a temple to Melqart, which it suggests is the source for the 'pillars of hercules'.

Why include any mention of athens if it was just a 'fairy tale'? And one can find other problems with this idea. None of that tho supports the idea that it was an actual place.

There are THREE distinct times when Plato claims this is a TRUE tale, in the dialogue. This was actually a debate topic for me a while back. Soon, I'll either locate the thread, or replicate the research for you here.

Try here www.geocities.com...