If Jesus knew that he was God and had God's powers, how is that considered "making a sacrafice" ?

So can you explain why and how Jesus died for my sins? How are his death and my perceived sins related.?

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


Why? Because we are all his children, his creations, the fruits of his loins.... He loves every soul he created. Wouldn't you want to do the same for your children?

How? Read my first post. It was more about guidance and evidence. Its not like, Bam, all the sudden, people from now on can be cleansed of their sins. If that were the case, could you assume that nobody predating the death/resurrection of Jesus can enter heaven? No. I believe nobody has been judged yet. No humans are in heaven or hell yet (relativity of time). If i were to die today, i believe that i would immediately awaken during the 'end times' (Revelation of John) to endure the final judgement. No time would pass between those two events from my perspective.
Over time the Jews (God's chosen people) went ballistic with their religious rules/law making. When i said earlier, Jesus came to put mankind back on track, that was to instate the 'New Law'. Instead of the 10 commandments, and all the other ridiculous laws they made during those times, we now have Jesus's law which is 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. A lot of Christians like to throw in a #3 which requires you to show your acceptance of Jesus's salvation via ceremony ((baptism). I believe the salvation is extended to everyone, regardless of ceremonies. As long as you follow 1 and 2, i believe you will be judged favorably.

All sins are Equal... Think about that for a second. Every person has sins, its just a matter of whether or not you will be judged according to those sins. I dont believe murder, adultry, covetry, (the list goes on) will disqualify you from heaven. Those are moral issues. Morality and religion are related, but still 2 very different concepts. However, i believe that if a person heeds the 2 laws and takes them to heart, the byproduct will be a moral, happy, fulfilling life.

The death is a symbol of the cleansing of your sins. If there is no death, theres no sacrifice, so no symbol, so no
enlightenment and no love.

God has his values. One of them is the "life for life". Adam lost his perfect state before God because he made a sin,listening to Satan and not trusting God.So, Jesus is named "the last Adam" in the Bible, because he was like Adam before he sinned, a perfect human being, with the perspective on life on earth. This sacrifice(value) was represented in the Israel by a animal sacrifice. They must remember the israelites that they are not anymore "sons" of God, but humans who are condemned to death. To deal with this situation, God must bring to death someone else, as perfect and carnal as Adam, for satisfying the values of God. This means that God have "moral" standards and he isn t change his standards.
He could choose not to make a sacrifice and to forgive all. But that implied that He has no values. The demonstration of his righteousness is that he let us choose betwen his or own standards of life.The sacrifice of God Son, Jesus doesnt imply that he automatically forgive us, but that He has the channel for doing so, if we are ready to repent and to adhere to his moral system.
Hope my resume was helpfull.

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
reply to post by TomServo

 

So can you explain why and how Jesus died for my sins?

How are his death and my perceived sins related.?

Jews sacrificed animals for the remittance of sin. Jesus was the lamb of God sacrificed for all sin. Pretty much that's it from a Christian perspective

reply to post by Buddha1098


I think i've said a lot more than that...

reply to post by deutschbag


Yes I too see the "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" as, almost a divide that shows the difference between Jesus and God. How can God BE Jesus if he is crying out to himself? But I am sure there are many different versions and interpretations of that statement.

Perhaps he is saying it to the Mortal Human's who he had hoped would change their course and not try and kill him?

Maybe he is saying it to Judas?

Maybe "My God" is just being said as a curse to the pain like "Fudge it hurts Fudge it hurts....why did you betray me?".

Maybe he is talking to himself. Maybe he is saying to himself, why did you create these events this way when you knew exactly what would happen if you had the power to make it any way that you wanted?

Maybe he created a fail safe device that would prevent himself from using his powers and smashing his way off the cross once he was crucified. Maybe he is talking to himself that way. Maybe the pain is so much that he is tempted to use his powers and when he tries they do not work and he is saying it to himself in the past when he created the fail safe device?

reply to post by TomServo


The 10 Commandments of Moses is not difficult at all to live by, really.

If thats too hard, try the 7 Commandments of Noach.

Both are common sense really.

Here's my idea after death; I'm reincarnated to teach me a lesson for my sins in my previous life. If I fail, I keep coming back until I learn. Now whether I come back to white middle class or a starving African, that is up to God to decide my fate.

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
reply to post by TomServo

 

So can you explain why and how Jesus died for my sins?

How are his death and my perceived sins related.?

i'll give an explanation a shot, however i feel you're mind is already made up on this topic.

Through the disobedience of one man, Adam, sin was brought in to the world and passed to everyone who would ever live.

Jesus was the "second Adam" so to speak, and through his obedience a way out of sin was givin.

Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

It's not something anyone can mentally grasp, i don't really understand it. I don't feel like i need to, i believe in Gods plan and am at peace with that.

I'm not saying Christianity is "the only way" ... find what brings you peace and go with that.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Well said... I would have to agree with that. I have to believe that Jesus had every opportunity to elude the pain and death. but it was his mission. Jesus was definitely tempted throughout his life. And, at this time, more than ever!

reply to post by TomServo


So when people say Jesus died for my sins, it means that Jesus died to show me a way to live without sin, or a way to repent for my sins?

Let me ask another question I never got answers to.

In order to go to heaven, I have to acknowledge Christian god.

What happens to isolated tribes, living in the jungle. They never heard of Christianity or Jesus. Will they go to hell by default?

Thnx for replying.

reply to post by amadeus30


Agreed! I by no means believe that only Christian will go to heaven. One beauty of humanity is differing interpretations. We are all different and very creative.

idonotcollectstamps, Jesus was not talking to himself at his death, because Joh(20.17) statesJesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'". Besides, in Joh 17,before his death, he is making a prayer, of course not to himself

Originally posted by TomServo
reply to post by Buddha1098

 

I think i've said a lot more than that...

I was just boiling it down.. =)

i'll give an explanation a shot, however i feel you're mind is already made up on this topic.

reply to post by amadeus30


I´m sorry you feel that way.

I´m just annoyed by the fact that several people have said that Jesus died for my sins the past month, but none of them were able to explain that statement.

Now I asked the question again, and again no answer, I get told to read the bible.

My point is, if people gonna throw punchlines around, they should better know what they are talking about.

It's not something anyone can mentally grasp, i don't really understand it. I don't feel like i need to, i believe in Gods plan and am at peace with that.

If that is the case, I hope you don´t try to push your beliefs and punchlines on other people, like people did with me.

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent

What happens to isolated tribes, living in the jungle. They never heard of Christianity or Jesus. Will they go to hell by default?

No... Bible states that during the end times and the final judgement, that every eye will see and every tongue will confess. I dont know how it will happen, but i can fathom it.

reply to post by bluemirage5

The 10 Commandments of Moses is not difficult at all to live by, really.

I think you'd be supprised how hard they are to live by my friend....

reply to post by alexandrinos


The Adam and Eve thing seems more of a metaphor. If you were to take the Garden of Eden and the Adam and Eve story literally it has more plot holes than a C movie made in Bollywood.

God Tells Adam and Eve not to eat the apple
The apple, once eaten gives Man and Woman the knowledge of right and wrong
How can man and Woman know NOT to eat the Apple if God has not given them the knowledge of right and wrong?

That is like telling a child not to stick a knife in the light socket "Because I said so".

reply to post by Akragon


Perhaps you are thinking of the 613 Mitzvot.......

Now how on earth are we supposed to remember all those?

The 10 Commandments is pretty easy

Originally posted by TomServo
reply to post by UrgentInsurgent

 

What happens to isolated tribes, living in the jungle. They never heard of Christianity or Jesus. Will they go to hell by default?

No... Bible states that during the end times and the final judgement, that every eye will see and every tongue will confess. I dont know how it will happen, but i can fathom it.

You do realize that your statement implies that it is totally unnessecary to believe in God, or Christianity, in order to avoid hell?

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Akragon

 

Perhaps you are thinking of the 613 Mitzvot.......

Now how on earth are we supposed to remember all those?

The 10 Commandments is pretty easy

I disagree, as a matter of fact i've tried to live by them in my first few months of bible study....I gave up after 2 or three sabbaths....Trust me its not easy.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Did they really have apples back then?

I always thought it was the fig for some reason