Compasses going crazy...Theories and Research

reply to post by nenothtu


Sure, no problem.

Since compasses rely on magnetic north to point you in the right way up the trail, the average $2-dollar model could very well point you in the wrong direction. Depending on location and journey length, unaware hikers or boaters could find themselves hundreds of miles off course if they don’t calibrate for the shift, experts said.
“At Washington D.C., the compass points 10 degrees to the west of true north," Jeffrey Love, USGS advisor for geomagnetic research, told FoxNews.com. "And this is increasing at Washington at a rate of about 1/10 of a degree per year.”

But don't touch that calibration dial just yet: The accuracy of compasses fluctuates with the field, he said, meaning compasses are more or less accurate depending on where you use them.

“It's different at different places on the earth,” Love said.
www.foxnews.com...

One reason for the flurry of re-paints in Florida is that the state lies on the agonic line through the United States, which is the line with no magnetic variation. The agonic line presently runs roughly from Florida through Lakes Michigan and Superior to the magnetic north pole. Compasses used along that line require no variation, but the line is moving west along with the pole, leading to runway closures for renumbering.

www.blueskyexecutiveaviation.co.uk...

I've posted this information many times in this thread, including right in the first few pages and then probably every ten pages since. The only way there's any mystery about this is if you don't accept the official explanations. It was not discovered here, it doesn't need to be confirmed because it definitely is happening, and even the erratic and variable nature of the readings was anticipated. Now we'll have ten more pages of people showing up breathlessly excited at their amazing discovery of a compass doing exactly what a compass should be doing.

reply to post by LeoVirgo
The reason I never wanted to be a teacher, I don't have the patients. Go to the post right above you. Click on the link, now this is a US government Document showing the Magnetic Anomolies. You can see the darkest purple is all in the same area as we have discovered on this thread. The compasses that or off are all in the same area.

This is from a friend of mine replied to an email I sent him at the begining of this thread, He was in China and just sent this March 30 , Dr Barry Warmkessel, that works with NASA astronomers, looking for exo-planets.

I am away from my research sources, but the Earth has not just a single magnetic pole, but has several smaller dipoles that could be growing. In fact the one near South Africa has already flipped, so some of these minor poles could be growing in strengh.

Earth has a solid inner core made of iron and nickel that is about 2,400km in diameter and a fluid outer core about 7,000km in diameter.

I can't get all of the quote in the quote thing.

Quote Barry Warmkessel:


Earth has a solid inner core made of iron and nickel that is about 2,400km in diameter and a fluid outer core about 7,000km in diameter.
This so-called "superrotation" of the inner core is of the order of 0.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees each year. This means that in 900 years, the inner core would gain one full rotation on the rest of the planet.
The research could help test simulations of how the outer, fluid core generates the Earth's magnetic field, which shields our planet and the teeming life on it from harmful cosmic rays.

US scientists claim to have confirmed that the Earth's core is spinning faster than its outer layers.
The results show that the inner core is rotating faster than the rest of the planet by about 0.009 seconds per year.

Earth has a solid inner core made of iron and nickel that is about 2,400km in diameter and a fluid outer core about 7,000km in diameter.
This so-called "superrotation" of the inner core is of the order of 0.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees each year. This means that in 900 years, the inner core would gain one full rotation on the rest of the planet.
The research could help test simulations of how the outer, fluid core generates the Earth's magnetic field, which shields our planet and the teeming life on it from harmful cosmic rays.
End Quote,

A lot of people on ATS have tried to debunk Barry, but he has all of the background and degrees to go with it. He is one of the few people I know that can talk about the things he does and not get in trouble for it. [and not because he is some disinfo agent. He has been my friend since 1998. Because he talks about crop circles and ET's some think he just a little off. He is so right on the Mark about what he knows, and a lot I have verified by other people. You can dish me but not my friend.

reply to post by sepermeru


Forgive me please...

But are your trying to say this is all normal and mostly explainable or that it is abnormal and its not explainable through natural reasons?

I remember a poster saying the 0 degree line ran through Mississippi now and I dont think this is so. This may explain why their compass figuring was off. Ill have to look into that more though. From what I understand, the 0 degree declination line once ran through Florida and has since moved over to Alabama and of course goes upward from there. So those east to the line would have to figure their compass one way and west to that line another. I dont think the Mississippi info for 0 declination was correct...and again, Im always open to new info Im unaware of or further explaining that I am in need of.

reply to post by coolottie


But there can be natural reasons for magnetic anomalies...right? There are tons of maps that show them all over the world and that this is not something new. Depending on minerals ect...there can be natural anomalies. Plus, as you said, there are small dip holes in several places that dont show a particular polarity and these change over time.

What is it you are really trying to say. Are you thinking that someone is lying to us about something and what is it you think that we are not being told?

reply to post by coolottie

This so-called "superrotation" of the inner core is of the order of 0.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees each year. This means that in 900 years, the inner core would gain one full rotation on the rest of the planet.

Is there anything out there to support this theory?

I have observed this phenomena in my lab since mid 2010 with all my magnetic compasses - and I am based in Thailand.
I have a number of them, some marine some military. Also checked occurance 50m away and 3.5 km from here. Sometimes the deviation was about 9 degrees, sometimes as much as 35 degrees. At that time I stated this on Energtic Forum too.

Android APPS should not have effect, it is GPS based not magnetic.

An interesting note:
The Earths magnetic field is directly affected by solar magnetic field and magnetic solar flares (CME's)
Keep an eye open for that.

reply to post by Aromaz


You said 'in your lab'.

Can you take some outdoor readings away from any buildings, power lines, ect? Or did you do that as well?

Just curious

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by ommadawn

 

Here in Southwest Arkansas, Today it has been right on Northeast. I even looked at it once and the hand was just bobbing up and down, I don't know what that means, but not changing direction just shaking like.

All of the other threads I have been reading are like a result or symtom of Magnectic field. I posted on each one to look at their compasses and left them a link to this Thread. The more results we get the better.

So Im still reading back into some posts. In Arkansas....would it not be normal for magnetic north to be northeast from you?

reply to post by coolottie


Im seeing something strange now. As Im reading back trying to understand some things you were saying I see a map you posted.

www.compassdude.com...

But the maps I have been looking at shows a different declination line.

www.ussartf.org...

You kept saying you were 2 clicks away from the 0 declination line and mentioned Mississippi and I was confused because I know that in Alabama where I live the declination line has currently moved from Florida into Alabama. If it has moved all the way to the map you are showing then that is a big move.

So looking into this further.

Edit for another map....

education.usgs.gov...

Ok, for declination data maps, most floating around the internet are based on data from varying dates in the recent years... For a more up to date map, I would try this link:

www.ngdc.noaa.gov...

76 pages and still going!

I'm on holidays, so I thought, what the heck, I'm gonna read every page and see if even a single person has posted *evidence* for anomalous readings.

How is it possible that so many people on ATS can fail at basic science!?

Check your equipment:
-- check you have a real compass (GPS ones don't take a measurement of the magnetic field, electronic ones such as the ones found in some smartphones are not accurate even if they do happen to measure the magnetic field and not GPS and/or gyro coordinates)

-- make sure it is a reliable brand (I would probably accept Silva compass readings, but would prefer a compass with a known tolerance, but I certainly would not accept a compass in the end of a torch or a watch)

-- check your compass works by comparing it to other known working and reliable compasses (see above for definition and I would prefer comparison with two other such reliable compasses)

Find true north:
-- for those who don't know, True North is the direction which points to the earth's geographic north pole, which is in the arctic at 0 degrees lattitude. The geographic north pole is basically the point about which the earth rotates.

-- to find true north, it's usually good enough to use Grid North on a map. It's not quite the same thing but good enough when trying to detect a 30 degree variation as reported in this thread. Grid north is usually indicated on maps by grid lines running across the map. Often there is also a little arrow in the corner of the map with an N above it, indicating which of the perpendicular sets of grid lines point north.

-- to identify the direction of True North, site between two points that can be definitely identified on an accurate map. Google maps is fine for this. It'll certainly be good enough to detect a 30 degree variation. What I mean is, find the two landmarks (the further apart the better). Stand so that both of them are in your direct line of sight. Take a compass reading in that direction. If the objects happen to lie in an exactly North-South line according to Grid North on your map, then you do not need to do any computation to determine the direction of True North. Otherwise you will need to measure the angle from Grid North on your map using a protractor.

-- another suggestion (posted more than once) is to find a quiet street running North-South according to your map. Stand on the very edge of the road being careful to avoid any traffic which might hit you and take a reading in the direction of the very edge of the road. As I have said before, I would prefer you use a compass with a mirror sight so that you can be sure of the reading. But I'd accept a Silva reading if carefully conducted.

-- another solution is to use Polaris. This is a dodgy one because it requires that you can identify Polaris in the sky. It's also hard to photograph without special gear. You'll also need to be in the northern hemisphere to see it. And you'll need to know roughly where it is in order to identify it. How are you gonna do that? Why with a compass and/or a map of course. Hmm.

Determine your local magnetic declination:
-- Compasses do not point towards True or Grid North. They point magnetic north. Note that this does NOT mean they point towards the point at the current location of earth's magnetic north pole. If you draw a line from your current location on a map in the direction your compass is pointing, it may very well not pass through the magnetic north pole. However, you can still determine where your compass is supposed to be pointing with a simple computation. Look at any one of the numerous declination maps available on the net and determine the current declination at your geographical location. Note that the declination changes with time, so you need to determine the *current* declination.

-- Take care to note whether the declination is EAST or WEST of north.

Now do a computation. How many degrees away from True/Grid North does your compass point? 42 degrees EAST of north? What is your local declination? 12 degrees EAST of north? Then the difference is your anomaly: 42 E of N - 12 E of N = 30 degrees anomaly.

OK, you have an anomaly. I believe you, as you did it all carefully, right!?

The *very next thing* a scientist would now do is check everything! No scientist ever reports a remarkable anomaly without checking, rechecking and checking again, then asking their colleagues to check, scrubbing everything, going back to the start and checking again.

1) Check the readings. Take them again to make sure.
2) Check the calculations.
3) Check the data you used. Try another source for the declination.
4) Try taking readings in multiple different locations.
5) Check for interference. Make sure you are away from electrical applicances, large metallic objects, including steel reinforced concrete, power lines, etc.
6) Ask someone else to check the readings and computations with you.
7) Try another compass.

OK. You *still* have an anomaly. I believe you, as you did all of this very carefully, right!?

Now we want to convince everyone else. For that we need *evidence*. Evidence is not a story. It's hard data.

Record all the details. Take down the model of the compass. Write down all the readings, the names of the objects used for sights. Find a link to a map which clearly shows these objects. Record precisely how you took the measurements. Show the working for your computations. Film the entire thing or have someone film you while you do it. Take photographs. Be meticulous.

Simply putting a compass on a table in some random orientation with a line marked on the *compass* of where you thought north was vaguely supposed to be, inside a house, etc. is not meticulous. It's lazy and prone to error.

Finally, post all the details here and/or on youtube with a link for us to see.

Once we have one person who can do this, and there are no known magnetic anomalies in their area, we need two, and then three people to do this. Once the effect is confirmed with actual evidence, then we have something to really ask questions about.

As it is currently, we have a whole pile of people claiming something is going on but absolutely refusing to post any evidence whatsoever. Or people who do go and do it properly suddenly find the anomaly is mysteriously gone.

This issue is knowable. It's not some bizarre claim about an object in a pixelated image which is subject to interpretation or which may have been faked. If the OP is correct, lots of people should be able to independently verify this with actual hard data. In many ways, this whole thread is completely wasted on ATS. As a conspiracy board, a fact which can be 100% checked with hard verifiable data in about 15 minutes of work by anyone reading the thread makes for a lousy "conspiracy theory".

I have checked magnetic North, Phage has, numerous other people have, and we don't see the anomaly. We need proof. How are we to know that all the positive reports are not from the same individual with made up ATS accounts? We simply can't know if we are being strung along or if this is for real if people don't post their evidence.

Finally, let me just say, I came to this thread because I thought maybe something interesting was really happening. I did not rule out that some of these measurements could be real just because all the sensitive magnetometers around the world dedicated to measuring the precise strength and direction of earth's magnetic field in three dimensions over time say otherwise.

But what am I to conclude when not one individual of all these hundreds which are reporting anomalies agrees to post their evidence!? Now *there* is a conspiracy theory.

Wow, that is really, really funny.

I'd have to think it was a joke if it wasn't so long and the wrong date now.

Buddy...there's no mystery whatsoever here. Compasses are giving anomalous readings, and there is no conspiracy, and it's not people doing bad science, and it's a very well-known and completely non-controversial fact everywhere in the world except on ATS, where nobody ever reads before posting and everybody just knows they don't have to actually, like, type the word "compass" into google news just to see if maybe thousands of people might have already noticed, explained and began to correct for this.

Originally posted by Sek82
Ok, for declination data maps, most floating around the internet are based on data from varying dates in the recent years... For a more up to date map, I would try this link:

www.ngdc.noaa.gov...

Thanks for the link. After looking around some I did find this one to be correct. I think its important to double check that everyone is using (at least those that are using declination to see if true north is showing up right) the map you posted.

And to note, the map declination that coolittle was using was correct.

I hate that people probably feel like Im doubting them. I just feel that with such a topic, we have to check, double check, and then check again...that everyone is using the same methods.

I know some here are using declination and some are not...and this alone could cause alot of different readings.

The reasons I feel that one can not just look for magnetic north is because magnetic north is going to show up differently in different areas. This is why I and others have stressed the importance of true north and declination for your area. If you figure declination and true north is not showing on your compass to be right...then you have an anomaly (as long as you are making sure that you are away from any interferences as many others are saying).

Now that we have alot of issues covered and we know that people have good maps, valid sites to look up for their declination, lists of interferences that can cause bad readings, and it known that posters here want some evidence that people are doing things right....hopefully we can keep checking and double checking the strange information that posters are giving us.

There are a couple of videos on ATS that show a compass and show it reading strange but those that I have seen were with a compass indoors. I hope that the main posters on this thread can stop taking offense of the people that want to know for sure everything is being used correctly.

Im going to refrain from my posting here and step aside and hope that the thread will go back on track for posters to continue posting their readings and hopefully we can get some videos and let us know your method (are you figuring declination or not, and if not, how do you know where magnetic north is supposed to be compared to what your compass is showing it to be).

I promise no more side track questions from me and thanks for helping me learn something!

LV

Originally posted by primus2012
My compass is in my army duffle bag in the parents' attic; haven't used it for years, but I know where the North Star / Polaris is and how it should appear in relation to my property. It's cloudy tonight, but I'll have a look on the next clear night...and I'm in Minnesota btw.

If you can't find Polaris, find the Big Dipper; the 2 stars furthest from the handle line up with Polaris. Polaris is also the star at the end of the Little Dipper's handle, so if you can find the Little Dipper, you can find Polaris. It shouldn't be more than 1 degrees off of the celestial "north" pole.

edit to add:
If you confirm Polaris is North, where it should be, and your compasses are still off, then it's not a pole shift, but some kind of magnetic anomaly in your area.

edit on 20-3-2011 by primus2012 because: (no reason given)

I was outside last night and the sky was clear. Polaris was pretty much dead-on to what I believe to be North. The pole has not changed.
Magnetic anomolies of some kind are to blame...altering magnetic north but not true north.

Would just like to add that I'm out in the Sonoran desert, in Sourthern California, and my compass gives a strange reading too. This compass replaced my old one about 4 or 5 months ago... it basically shows North as being East, pointing only slightly north from where the Sun rises over the mountains. It's way off.

reply to post by primus2012

How much Declination did you do? A compass will only show Magnetic North.

reply to post by primus2012
The whole reason a compass has a "magnet" in it is so it will point to the Magnetic Pole, Your compass does not show True North because the North Pole is not Magnetic at all. What we are doing is trying to find how far off Magnetic North is your compass, Magnetic North is a long way from even being close to the North Pole. Like Magnetic North for me is now Magnetic Northeast.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


As stated, I did 50 meters from any building, power or even phone lines. Nearest cell tower is 3 km from here. I am on small farm. Within 3 km from me are plenty of open land, few private houses and sea. I also took readings at our marina where I have factory 3.5 km from my home/lab. All same thing on same time.

Reasons why I did this was that I felt a bit disorientated and was repeating old experiment that just did not want to work out as before. For past two weeks compasses are near correct when compared with GPS; average only 2 to 8 degrees off; variations seems to be a three day cycle. That is reasonably normal.

I do begin to suspect solar flux but does not have enough data yet. Today I have 12 degree off and we do have a increased solar wind speed, proton density and x-ray occurance in atmosphere.

I am amazed this thread is still going,.
though I could believe a compass not doing what it always does
would be alarming,. I think if compasses were to really start moving
More would start ringing the bell .
AS I stated earlier on in this thread,. My compass has not moved from its position
for a long while,.much longer than the "concern" this thread posted at the time.
Oh and I set my compass to a permanent position a few years back to see if there would be a
actual pole shift,. has been disappointing so far

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
I am amazed this thread is still going,.
though I could believe a compass not doing what it always does
would be alarming,. I think if compasses were to really start moving
More would start ringing the bell .
AS I stated earlier on in this thread,. My compass has not moved from its position
for a long while,.much longer than the "concern" this thread posted at the time.
Oh and I set my compass to a permanent position a few years back to see if there would be a
actual pole shift,. has been disappointing so far

I am now officially certain this entire thread is an enormous hoax directed at driving me completely !@%%#^ insane.

As has been explained over and over and over, it really is happening. If you think it isn't, please contact the media, because they reported on it months ago. As you say, if this happened, a lot of people not on ATS would notice. They did notice. They wrote articles about it, and published them in major newspapers. You don't know this because the majority of people posting in this thread want to make it absolutely clear that they not only don't read the whole thread, they often don't even read the page they are posting on.