Compasses going crazy...Theories and Research

reply to post by MadDogtheHunter



Just in case you weren't aware of this Info I'm presenting from Utube/News Sources... I just want to say that you were NOT full of crap as sooo many tried to make you and others like you feel! I knew it was changing when FL had to shut down their runway so they could recalibrate the runway due to a shift in their compass..

Magnetic shift

reply to post by LeoVirgo


This is where I got the information for my declination. Pretty simple, just put in your zipcode and then click the "compute declination" button. It's an official NOAA website so I am trusting that it's a pretty reliable source.

Here is the link


ETA: Oh and nenothtu was correct. I wasn't talking about following true north. If I follow magnetic north on my compass without figuring in my area's declination, I would be headed towards Greenland, which is not where magnetic north is currently suppose to be. BUT, with that said, if I do figure in my declination I still wouldn't be headed toward true north. If my magnetic north is "off" by 15 degrees then my true north is off as well going by my compass. Now I can follow a map and internet sources all day long and find "true north", but not following my compass. If I follow magnetic north on my compass, figure in my declination, then "true north" according to my compass is going to be somewhere in Ellesmere Island. And yes, I also understand that "magnetic" north moves, but certainly it doesn't fluctuate/move by 15 degrees, possibly more/less depending on which person you are talking to in this thread, each day.

Now I have chalked my strange reading up to a magnetic disturbance in my area, just for now, because I live so close to a military base, and artillery range and being that it's military you never know everything going on. It is the government afterall and who knows what they are using over there on the base. But that doesn't mean that it could not possibly be something else entirely, just that I have no definite proof yet and one of the last people on earth to yell "conspiracy".

Originally posted by tracehd1
reply to post by MadDogtheHunter

 

Just in case you weren't aware of this Info I'm presenting from Utube/News Sources... I just want to say that you were NOT full of crap as sooo many tried to make you and others like you feel! I knew it was changing when FL had to shut down their runway so they could recalibrate the runway due to a shift in their compass..

Magnetic shift

So what about other airports in the past that have had to do this?

reply to post by watchdog


Right...if your reading is incorrect, it wont take you where your needing to go. I was just saying, if it was correct, after you figure declination.....it should show you true north.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I think they were talking about following the north end of the needle. that's going to point to magnetic north (even if it's pointing to the magnetic north of a localized anomalous magnetic field) no matter where the declination ring is set.

edit on 2011/4/1 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Im confused. If you set your declination, then your compass should be able to show you true north.

?

Just for the record, it finally cleared up here last night and I was able to spot Polaris. No anomaly. The perturbations the others have been noting here may be due to local phenomena. I would suggest traveling around the local area and plotting the anomalies on a map.

Originally posted by DJW001
Just for the record, it finally cleared up here last night and I was able to spot Polaris. No anomaly. The perturbations the others have been noting here may be due to local phenomena. I would suggest traveling around the local area and plotting the anomalies on a map.

I think that is a good idea. Travel around and see how much space the anomaly is showing up.

Please ignore this space, I shouldn't have posted.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I think they were talking about following the north end of the needle. that's going to point to magnetic north (even if it's pointing to the magnetic north of a localized anomalous magnetic field) no matter where the declination ring is set.

edit on 2011/4/1 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Im confused. If you set your declination, then your compass should be able to show you true north.

?

Not if the declination is not what it's expected to be. When you set the expected declination, calculated by whatever method you prefer - either the NOAA site, a declination diagram on a map, or some other method or combination of methods (I use Terrabase II, a military mapping program that the Corps of Engineers and the Defense Mapping Agency and it's current children use, then cross check the declination), you expect that true north will be shown by the compass by setting what you expect to be the correct declination.

If either the declination is miscalculated, OR it's calculated correctly, but for whatever anomalous reason the needle is not pointing to the magnetic pole that it's expected to point at, then it will lie to you about where true north is. In other words, if magnetic north is "pulling off" in one direction or another, setting the declination, even if it's correct, will cause true north to show wrong in the same direction, and by the same amount. The only difference between the two is the declination, so even if it's right, a magnetic disturbance to the compass needle will show up as a deflection in true north as well. That's why I use an external source for true north. if true north is shown to be off by that, then either the declination or the actual needle deflection is off. If I double check the declination, and it comes out the same, then something has to be disturbing the needle.

That "something" could be nearby ferrous metal, a magnetic field induced by flowing current, some magnet (like in a speaker or a generator), a dipole anomaly in the local magnetic field, or something else. Then I either have to eliminate that source of trouble, or simply move to another location and take another reading.

I know that was sort of rambling, but I hope it was at least comprehensible. I'm sometimes not very good at that.

reply to post by tracehd1
Thank you so much for your comments and the video. Fear is the greatest weapon of evil. When Mad Dog started this thread there were those that thought "here goes another world coming to an end thread". I stopped watching Alex Jones for that reason. I believe mankind has been on this planet for millions of years and will be for millions to come. I do not believe this is the fault of humans that so many this are happening. From all I have studied about the past is that the earth has gone through much much worse in the past than what is happening now. The Documentary, "The Secret" is the greatest film ever made. The things that are happening with the Magnetic Field, I hope will be that we all discover how strong the human mind is. There is a thread on ATS about Emoto, and his water experiment.

The Secret



Emoto's Water Experiment

reply to post by LeoVirgo
Several people stopped coming on here because of the constant arguing over how to read a compass, and being told how ignorant they are. All this about holding the compass up to Polaris [North Star] and taking a picture of it. I wonder if any of these people tried that. If they did they would have found their compass wrong. The North Star is about 40 miles from the North Pole so as the earth make a complete rotation everyday 24 hrs. the reason we have day and night; The pole star makes a complete 40 miles clock wise circle around the point of True North. The people that said that True North is the pole star didn't know this, and still can't except it, as fact. I have noticed a lot of them not coming on this thread anymore too.

reply to post by coolottie


I don't think you said what you wanted to say right. The north star is not that close to the north pole. Or I could not be understanding what you mean lol.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Notice he says the North Star is "near the North Pole. The only reason it is the North Star is that it is the closes to where the North pole is. But Not directly over it. Part of the 24 hrs it is West of the North Pole, other part of the day it is East of the North Pole, As the Earth's Axis does a complete cycle which takes about 26000 years then the North Star becomes the closes to the pole. Thank god it does do it any faster. In 2350 BC the Earth was off of it's Axis by 23.7 degrees, now it is off by 23.5 degrees, so it has taken it almost 4,000 years just to correct it 0.2 degrees.

The Earth is spinning on its axis like a top, once a day. We define the points where this axis intersects the Earth's surface as the North and South Poles. If you stood at the North Pole (brrrr!) over the course of one day you would spin around once. Now, since we are stuck on the surface of the Earth, we don't really perceive this spin. We do see the sky, however, and our spin makes it look like the sky is revolving around us once a day.

the top spins. Well, the same thing is happening to the Earth! The gravity of the Moon and Sun provides a torque on the Earth, causing the axis to wobble. The Earth's axis takes 26,000 years to make a complete circle, and as it moves it points to different parts of the sky. It just so happens that right now it is pointing near Polaris (actually, Polaris is about a degree away from the actual North Celestial Pole). In a few thousand years, the Earth's pole will be pointed at the bright star Vega, which is one of the ten brightest stars in the sky. Imagine how hard it will be to convince people that's just a coincidence when that happens!

Link to Bad Astronomy [We follow each other on twitter]

www.badastronomy.com...

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I guess the only way to explain it is take you to the exact location of the North Pole and have you look straight up. You will not see the North Star directly over you head. I think even kindergarden can tell you that the earth makes a complete turn eveyday. If you were at the North Pole in the Morning you would see the North Star to your East, in the Evening it will be West of you. At Noon it will be South of the North Pole and at Midnight it will be North of you. Now I can't get it any simpler than that. The North Star is Not right over the North Pole. It will be another 22,000 years before another Star will be closer. Unless the Earth its self moves off of its axis. But now we are talking about the Magnetic North.

reply to post by nenothtu

Not if the declination is not what it's expected to be.

Right, just was making sure we were on the same page with that. Thanks for the response

reply to post by coolottie

The North Star is about 40 miles from the North Pole so as the earth make a complete rotation everyday 24 hrs. the reason we have day and night; The pole star makes a complete 40 miles clock wise circle around the point of True North. The people that said that True North is the pole star didn't know this, and still can't except it, as fact. I have noticed a lot of them not coming on this thread anymore too.

I appreciate your feedback coolottie. Im not here to tell anyone of any ignorance. Im only here out of interests.

Polaris is called the north star because it is the closest (less then 1 degree) from true north. This is unnoticeable so much so that literally this star seems 'fixed' in the sky. From what I understand, our north pole is fixed right now to that position of Polaris and from what I understand our true north does not circle around this star every 24 hours. Can you give me a link for that? All the links you gave before about a 'circle' was not talking about the north star in a 24hour period but was talking of the earths wobble and thousands of years through precession. Im open to further discussion though.

Im certainly not here to run anyone off. I would like to clear up this idea about us circling around Polaris in a circle in a days time though because from what I understand, since Polaris is less then 1 degree from our true north, it 'appears' to be fixed, unmoving, and only over a long period of time will that change.

Please dont feel like Im here to cause any trouble, I am only wanting clarity and understanding for myself and others.

So can you find another link that supports your idea that Polaris makes a circle in a 24 hour period?

The spin and wobble have different effects. Sure, we spin full circle every day. A full wobble takes almost 26,000 years.

Thanks
LV

reply to post by coolottie



I understand the wobble and the effects of that changing the north stars over long periods of time. Im not aware that in 24 hours though that the north star will seem to make a small circle and I have yet to see any links saying this is so.

Can you give a link to show that if you stand at the north pole you would see the Polaris to the east and to the west all in 24hours? From what I understand, Polaris looks fixed to us, over the north pole, because less then 1 degree is not enough to make it any different. All other stars seem to move around Polaris through a night sky while Polaris stays fixed. Only over a couple thousands of years due to wobble and not spin, does this change.

Im completely open though for any evidence of what you say.

Here is a timelapse of polaris, you can see how tiny the circle is it makes here. It is really only a tiny circle, and will not throw you far off true north...

Timelapse

reply to post by coolottie


From the link you gave it says this...

Note that stars near the two celestial poles will make little circles around the pole as the Earth spins. The farther you get from the poles, the bigger the circle.

Only the stars around the pole star seem to move in a circle with one spin of the earth. Polaris appears to be fixed in the sky, staying in one place. The pole star does not move in a circle in 24 hours.

Later they talk about the wobble of the earth and this causing the pole star to change but this is not something we can notice in 24 hours.

Over 24 hours, Polaris seems fixed while all other stars SEEM to move around it due to the spin of the earth. Hence, we can watch the big dipper circle around Polaris every every night like hands on a clock.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Here is a timelapse of polaris, you can see how tiny the circle is it makes here. It is really only a tiny circle, and will not throw you far off true north...

Timelapse

edit on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 20:51:35 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

AHHH! Thank you! Im seeing it now. Very interesting. I never thought that it being less then 1 degree from true north would cause that.

I must thank coolittle for her patients with me on that then. Thank you for not getting rude with me out of all of my debating on this topic. All links that I have ever read say it appears 'fixed' and I have yet to read one that talks of this. So forgive my confidence in all of what I have read. I feel that my surefootedness in the topic was due to articles not explaining this so I was going on the fact that its such a little degree from true north that as the articles always say, it would appear 'fixed'.

Thank you both for helping bring clarity in that and Im sorry its takin so many posts for me to 'get that' point.

Its still such a small circle, do you really think that if you were to stand at the north pole that you would see the north star in different directions like east and west? I dont think it would be that noticeable? Only with the time laspe would it be even noticed that its not true north completely and I dont think you would have to look east to west at the north pole to see it.

Anywho....Ive learned something!!

My best
LV