I'd like to be converted. Can you help answer my questions?

Originally posted by RapturedNotBeamed
reply to post by Akragon

 

Weak.

First, no - we can't know the day/hour/year that it's going to happen. Some people pretend to, and use that to sell books however.

Second, yes - if anyone has accepted Jesus as Saviour and God, and His death as payment for the penalty of our sins, then those are the people who get raptured. That's God's word, and everything else has held true so why would I doubt this?

See this is the problem.... the conflict between logic and belief.

You say "thats Gods word"........when in fact it is not Gods word, its mans word. I've covered this in that "rapture thread" i linked. Why would you think that a select few people will be wisked away... Do christians really believe they're better then everyone else? As if God prefers them to all other religious people...when in fact we're all created equal?

And what exactly has "held true"?

reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed

Go ahead. In fact, that is exactly what you're doing if you refuse what Jesus is offering.

Well I hope the end comes soon...
I wanna get my eternal sentence underway ASAP!!!

Originally posted by Akragon

See this is the problem.... the conflict between logic and belief.

You say "thats Gods word"........when in fact it is not Gods word, its mans word. I've covered this in that "rapture thread" i linked.

Just because it was written by men, doesn't mean that it didn't come from God.

Why would you think that a select few people will be wisked away... Do christians really believe they're better then everyone else? As if God prefers them to all other religious people...when in fact we're all created equal?

I don't know where you get that Christians believe we're better than everyone else. All I'm doing is telling you what is in the bible. You're completely missing that Jesus died for you too, all you've got to do is accept Him. I don't care what background you're from, Jesus died for you anyway. He came for the sinner, which is all of us. You can either accept Him or reject Him, and it's up to you. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm better than you. I sin too. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. But Jesus died sacrificed Himself for my sins anyway, while I was yet a sinner, just as He did for you.

And what exactly has "held true"?

Loads of stuff. I checked out your link, go back and check out the one I posted in my original reply to the op.

reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed


The conspiracy thing that you mention is kind what worries me. I agree that the bible is written by people from all different walks of life but my problem is when they submitted their work to be entered, there was a group that voted on what went in and what didn’t wasn’t there? Wouldn’t that be just like the editors at the news papers checking facts and making sure there were “just that” no contradictions?

What does the bible say about the people who believe in jesus to be their savior after the rapture happens? Are those people, once they have decided, raptured as well? The confusion really isn’t confusion at that point. No one will need to come with answers because the world just witnessed the followers of jesus proved correct all that time right in front of their eyes. If someone believes in jesus after the rapture it isn’t the same faith anymore. Those people had proof when the others didn’t have that luxury. Based on what I know of the bible and things god has chosen to do, why Jesus would come back after the rapture at all. Wouldn’t the rest of us just be screwed? If the antichrist is to hurt everyone on earth why not save us all because really we were all scared and didn’t know what to do. We were forced into confusion and when we needed him most he is just going to pluck the best ones from the bunch? The ones who were able to think that the bible wasn’t just another way to confuse us all were the only ones. I live a life focused on helping others at every step of the way and have lived that way since I was a little kid and all because I wanted to live like I thought god would want me to. If I’m not okay in gods eyes that’s fine but I cant say that I get it.

The events that we all are seeing and experiencing are written in a book. They have never kept it secret and its been around for years and years. I don’t think Im stretching here when I say that if someone or some group wanted to trick us then they would have had more then enough time to plan out these events that just went along with the script. It would cause everyone who believed that they were waiting for revelation prophecies to come true to take notice. They would all be waiting for the next prophecy to come true. The instigators would just have to keep following the script and then what I was talking about could easily happen. Of course if it turned out that we were not the only planet that had life on it or that god decided to paint with life again. If we are not the only ones and contact was made a very long time ago, they could of gotten very good by now at covering their tracks and had enough help to plan out an elaborate chain of events.

“So where do you take it from here? Nobody can make that decision for you. Either you recognize your sins and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, and enjoy freedom from the burden of this world and all it's curses, or you pass and live a life with your head in the sand. But it really is a line in the sand, and you need to know where you stand.”
Are you kidding me with this part? What am I supposed to do with this? Oh okay if I don’t make up my mind with barely any information I will be tortured for the rest of my immortal life! I am not a bad person and if the god you claim is going to punish me that severely for not making up my mind because people have tried to make it hard. I have never stopped trying, and I always try to take others into consideration with every single choice I have. If I will burn from the life I’ve lived for something that my gods first people on this planet did to him, im sorry but its not hard to get that our perfect god wouldn’t be able to hold a grudge that long. Im sure in his infinite wisdom he would be able to understand how hard it has become and reward those that still found a way to be a good person. Even if the bible is right there is something not adding up to me. So if your answer to me is believe or burn I will ask you this: Would you support the devil if he was actually the one who made you just because he made you and has the power to really cause you some pain if you didnt!?!. Cause that’s what you just sounded like to me.

reply to post by lektrofellon


Thank you

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


What about the people the are good, honest, etc....that are still trying to figure it out....... It would be a contradiction in my book. God is supposed to be perfect right? He would know the good ones from the bad ones, if there were any bad ones in the first place. What if the bad ones were tricked by some unknown force. We have no clue. We are just human. God is the only one who has the luxury of knowing the def truth.

a hole would be right along the same thoughts as mine if that were true.

I dont think believers really agree with that fact but say they do because it would contradict all their other beliefs. I want an honest member to speak.

reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed


Because one lie in someone life isnt murder or adultry. Please dont put someone who tells a white lie (even though i agree it to be wrong) deserves to burn in hell.

Supposed to be a judge isnt he. Is that how he will judge everyone so he sent his son knowing he would be murdered just so his idea of good and bad wont effect us too much?

I do believe God would be love but what youre saying he is capable of is hard to put into the love category.

reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed

Just because it was written by men, doesn't mean that it didn't come from God.

True, but it doesn't mean it came from God either... Inspired by God...Written by man.

I can show you 100 different writings that were "inspired by God" Channeled from angels..... It doesn't mean they actually were. Then again its possible.

I don't know where you get that Christians believe we're better than everyone else. All I'm doing is telling you what is in the bible. You're completely missing that Jesus died for you too, all you've got to do is accept Him. I don't care what background you're from, Jesus died for you anyway. He came for the sinner, which is all of us. You can either accept Him or reject Him, and it's up to you. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm better than you. I sin too. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. But Jesus died sacrificed Himself for my sins anyway, while I was yet a sinner, just as He did for you.

You don't need to tell me whats in the bible believe me....

My point is.....this whole rapture thing is a load of (please insert word of choice) By saying "christians will be swept away to avoid the comming danger" You're buying into the con of this religion. Similiar to the idea of hell... IF you don't believe what we believe you'll burn in hell. This is just a different spin on the same idea, they're using your fear against you to make you follow the crowd (sheeple) IIF you believe what we tell you, you'll be magically swept away just before the comming danger....no logic there... just blind faith in a rediculous concept.

Why would God select only christians? Jesus himself wasn't a christian...

reply to post by Akragon


The words of one man that might of been translated into someones perspective as well.

If you believe that then isnt it easy to think that if god actually sent a prophet to help us figure answer all these questions we have been begging to have answered, that we are going to kill them thinking they would be the antichrist?

If thats not hard to jump on with isnt also easy to see that the one who csame to save us from that antichrist is actually the bad guy in disguise?

and revelation really didnt happen yet because it was staged!

reply to post by Brianegan


God doesn't pick out the 'best ones from the bunch' when He raptures Christians, he simply fulfills His promise to those who chose to accept Him. Christians are not better than everyone else, as I just finished explaining above, but we are not held accountable for our sins because we accepted Jesus' sacrifice. You can have that too if you want it.

After the rapture, life is hard for people who turn to Jesus because they are under the thumb of the antichrist during the 7 year time period before Jesus comes back. Many will be martyred because they refuse worship the antichrist.

Remember also that since Christians are gone when the rapture happens, the only people remaining will be those that did not believe. And we know already that people who do not believe in Jesus will look everywhere but the bible for answers to what is going on. When somebody steps in who is offering answers he will look pretty good at that point considering the chaos the world will be in.

However, after 7 years Jesus returns and defeats the antichrist and his army, and then sets up His own kingdom here on earth. This is all in the book of Revelations if you want to know more.

Finally, Jesus didn't say you get to go to heaven if you're a nice guy, He said that "no-one comes to the Father but through Me". Sin, no matter if it is murder or a white lie, separates you from God. This is the whole reason that Jesus did what He did. He bridged that gap.

Originally posted by Brianegan
reply to post by Akragon

 

The words of one man that might of been translated into someones perspective as well.

If you believe that then isnt it easy to think that if god actually sent a prophet to help us figure answer all these questions we have been begging to have answered, that we are going to kill them thinking they would be the antichrist?

If thats not hard to jump on with isnt also easy to see that the one who csame to save us from that antichrist is actually the bad guy in disguise?

and revelation really didnt happen yet because it was staged!

More then likely if a "prophet" sent from God emerges, he will be killed either way. Teachers of the true way are always killed apparently. Im sure theres a reason behind it.

How do you know the events in Revelation haven't already happened? Btw revelation was written by a Old man in a cave

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed

 

Just because it was written by men, doesn't mean that it didn't come from God.

True, but it doesn't mean it came from God either... Inspired by God...Written by man.

I can show you 100 different writings that were "inspired by God" Channeled from angels..... It doesn't mean they actually were. Then again its possible.

I don't know where you get that Christians believe we're better than everyone else. All I'm doing is telling you what is in the bible. You're completely missing that Jesus died for you too, all you've got to do is accept Him. I don't care what background you're from, Jesus died for you anyway. He came for the sinner, which is all of us. You can either accept Him or reject Him, and it's up to you. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm better than you. I sin too. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. But Jesus died sacrificed Himself for my sins anyway, while I was yet a sinner, just as He did for you.

You don't need to tell me whats in the bible believe me....

My point is.....this whole rapture thing is a load of (please insert word of choice) By saying "christians will be swept away to avoid the comming danger" You're buying into the con of this religion. Similiar to the idea of hell... IF you don't believe what we believe you'll burn in hell. This is just a different spin on the same idea, they're using your fear against you to make you follow the crowd (sheeple) IIF you believe what we tell you, you'll be magically swept away just before the comming danger....no logic there... just blind faith in a rediculous concept.

Why would God select only christians? Jesus himself wasn't a christian...

Please lets not get into a mine is bigger than yours debate. Lets act like we actually care about eachother not about being right.

The point is that it is a fact that no matter what god wrote way back then when certain portion can be removed to tell a copmpletely different story. If anyone can deny that then you kidding yourself and do not care about truth att all. We know that you believe and that isnt the point. Its the ones that are having a hard time deciding that need HELP.

Lets state how we feel because so many different things could be going on that we do not know about yet we back up our beliefs in fear of sounding like a hypocrite. I for one will be listing for heartfelt replies. I knew that posting this was dangerous but I also know that you all really do care about eachother and just want the best for your family so lets behave.

Quoting scripture wont help
saying that events have backed it up wont help
telling others they are stupid for not believing what you believe wont help.

etc..........

lets try to help by being careful about what we say so we can move forward. We are going to stand still if we just continue on with what has confused me all along.

Im looking for help and so are many other. Does anyone really care about the people themselves instead of themselves being right?

Everyone has had the thought, at some point in their lives, that life itself may be pointless. I am here to tell you that you are correct. Life is completely pointless. You are born, live for a cosmic blink of an eye, and then die. There is no Heaven, Hell, Valhalla, Nirvana. The same thing happens to you when you die that happens to a fly when you swat it. It was alive, then it's dead. Here I am going to tell you a very basic truth. What exactly are you. You are not a spirit, a soul, or even anything special. I know that sounds very hard to believe as most people spend their entire lives trying to convince themselves they are special. For if you are special then your life is not pointless. One of the reasons religion has done so well is the fact they convince people that there is a magical man in the sky watching everything they do and that he cares very much about them personally. How prosperous would a religion be that stated "God created the universe, then lost interest and went to get a Slurpee." If you really think about it, what motivates most people's actions is the desire to feel special. Competition is a huge byproduct of this need. The need to make money, gain power, even respect are all driven by the same need. Everyone just wants to feel as though their life means something and is important. Well I have bad news for you... you're not special. Don't take it too hard for I am not special either. We are both just accidents of evolution, lucky enough to live for a little while before we die and cease to exist. No matter what you do, or how much you want it, nothing will change the fact that you are not special and once you die nothing you did while you were alive will mean anything. This is actually very good news. Due to the fact that this is it, you might as well accept it. Enjoy every moment you can, because when your time is up, that's it. No reason to get stressed out or worry. None of it matters. No matter how much money you get, how many friends you have or how many homeless cats you rescue, you are still going to end up the same way the Pope, Jay Leno, and Dahmer will. So relax, take a deep breath and enjoy what little time you have.

Life Is Pointless

reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed

Jesus didn't say you get to go to heaven if you're a nice guy, He said that "no-one comes to the Father but through Me". Sin, no matter if it is murder or a white lie, separates you from God. This is the whole reason that Jesus did what He did. He bridged that gap.

So again, because you believe jesus came to earth and died for the sins of the world....you get a free ticket to heaven...

Now first off......does everyone get this free ticket if they believe this? What about those "christian" pastors and bishops that like to touch little children? Im sure they believe in jesus...

Secondly.... You say sin seperates you from God.....Does that mean those that are sinners don't get in? Or is it that you're allowed to sin a little bit.... What is the cut off point?

Ooop....sorry buddy but that last lie you told, that sealed your fate..*slams the door*

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RapturedNotBeamed

 

Just because it was written by men, doesn't mean that it didn't come from God.

True, but it doesn't mean it came from God either... Inspired by God...Written by man.

I can show you 100 different writings that were "inspired by God" Channeled from angels..... It doesn't mean they actually were. Then again its possible.

I don't know where you get that Christians believe we're better than everyone else. All I'm doing is telling you what is in the bible. You're completely missing that Jesus died for you too, all you've got to do is accept Him. I don't care what background you're from, Jesus died for you anyway. He came for the sinner, which is all of us. You can either accept Him or reject Him, and it's up to you. It has nothing to do with me thinking I'm better than you. I sin too. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. But Jesus died sacrificed Himself for my sins anyway, while I was yet a sinner, just as He did for you.

You don't need to tell me whats in the bible believe me....

My point is.....this whole rapture thing is a load of (please insert word of choice) By saying "christians will be swept away to avoid the comming danger" You're buying into the con of this religion. Similiar to the idea of hell... IF you don't believe what we believe you'll burn in hell. This is just a different spin on the same idea, they're using your fear against you to make you follow the crowd (sheeple) IIF you believe what we tell you, you'll be magically swept away just before the comming danger....no logic there... just blind faith in a rediculous concept.

Why would God select only christians? Jesus himself wasn't a christian...

Please lets not get into a mine is bigger than yours debate. Lets act like we actually care about eachother not about being right.

The point is that it is a fact that no matter what god wrote way back then when certain portion can be removed to tell a copmpletely different story. If anyone can deny that then you kidding yourself and do not care about truth att all. We know that you believe and that isnt the point. Its the ones that are having a hard time deciding that need HELP.

Lets state how we feel because so many different things could be going on that we do not know about yet we back up our beliefs in fear of sounding like a hypocrite. I for one will be listing for heartfelt replies. I knew that posting this was dangerous but I also know that you all really do care about eachother and just want the best for your family so lets behave.

Quoting scripture wont help
saying that events have backed it up wont help
telling others they are stupid for not believing what you believe wont help.

etc..........

lets try to help by being careful about what we say so we can move forward. We are going to stand still if we just continue on with what has confused me all along.

Im looking for help and so are many other. Does anyone really care about the people themselves instead of themselves being right?

My friend this isn't what im about... I don't deal in definitives. I don't claim to have all the answers, what im saying is don't put your faith in a book. God isn't in a book.

I have no need to be right, i know whats right in my heart.....other then that i could care less what others think.

Honestly im trying to give you this help you're asking for...but i can only do so through my own point of view. Unfortunatly it usually turns into an arguement, and im always up for a religious debate, thats just me

Let me show you something that opened my eyes....

reluctant-messenger.com...

Originally posted by RapturedNotBeamed
reply to post by Brianegan

 

God doesn't pick out the 'best ones from the bunch' when He raptures Christians, he simply fulfills His promise to those who chose to accept Him. Christians are not better than everyone else, as I just finished explaining above, but we are not held accountable for our sins because we accepted Jesus' sacrifice. You can have that too if you want it.

After the rapture, life is hard for people who turn to Jesus because they are under the thumb of the antichrist during the 7 year time period before Jesus comes back. Many will be martyred because they refuse worship the antichrist.

Remember also that since Christians are gone when the rapture happens, the only people remaining will be those that did not believe. And we know already that people who do not believe in Jesus will look everywhere but the bible for answers to what is going on. When somebody steps in who is offering answers he will look pretty good at that point considering the chaos the world will be in.

However, after 7 years Jesus returns and defeats the antichrist and his army, and then sets up His own kingdom here on earth. This is all in the book of Revelations if you want to know more.

Finally, Jesus didn't say you get to go to heaven if you're a nice guy, He said that "no-one comes to the Father but through Me". Sin, no matter if it is murder or a white lie, separates you from God. This is the whole reason that Jesus did what He did. He bridged that gap.

Its sounds like you are just telling the same story in different ways hoping I finally get what your saying. What even in the first place made it so christians seperated from catholics. Why wasnt the church correct because both groups seem to believe the same thing but both claim to be the truth. A catholic will not call themselves christian and goes both ways right?

I know what the bible says and you are just repeating it. I want a rational reason why you can ignore the rest of the information that was available to you before you chose what you decided to chose.

You know you were once someone who didnt know the truth and probably searched for answers to. The responses that you are giving right now would have seemed closed off to you as well back then. You may be completely right but what if the bible is being used to manipulatre you. I mean you guys are one of the biggest religous groups around arent you. Perfect target if you ask me. The chance that the rapture is being staged to be near could easily be seen as a cry to finaly have jesus return and save you. That would be nice for you guys if so but isnt it hard to believe that its happening in your lifetime. Isnt that the smallest chance that the compliment is easy to believe! We all want out from this torture place but think about all that is available instead of fearing a contradiction in the bible or your preaching. Your credibilty is not up for dicussion its if your are being manipulated because you believe in so much that you would back it up no matter what.

Originally posted by Akragon
Why would God select only christians? Jesus himself wasn't a christian...

To be a Christian is to follow Christ. Jesus is Christ. Lol, what a ridiculous thing to say, and you are still missing the point. Jesus' sacrifice is for everyone who accepts Him. He offers salvation to anyone who wants it.

The real con here is what you're buying into. This whole universalism idea is completely bogus. It's a counterfeit and it's a lie. Even the pope has declared that the Muslims serve the same god that the jews and christians serve. But he is deceived as well and he's just playing into the interfaith and one world religion that will exist during the days after the rapture. No secret society, military power, or government could pull off everything we see going on. Again, these things were declared in the bible and it's coming together just as God said it would. To know and understand what the bible teaches, and to not believe it after seeing what is going on in the world, is to be deceived.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Brianegan
reply to post by Akragon

 

The words of one man that might of been translated into someones perspective as well.

If you believe that then isnt it easy to think that if god actually sent a prophet to help us figure answer all these questions we have been begging to have answered, that we are going to kill them thinking they would be the antichrist?

If thats not hard to jump on with isnt also easy to see that the one who csame to save us from that antichrist is actually the bad guy in disguise?

and revelation really didnt happen yet because it was staged!

More then likely if a "prophet" sent from God emerges, he will be killed either way. Teachers of the true way are always killed apparently. Im sure theres a reason behind it.

How do you know the events in Revelation haven't already happened? Btw revelation was written by a Old man in a cave

old man in a cave.... I needed that.....

lol

that is a pattern that seems out of wack to me. Who keeps knocking them off and why? No one seems to really put much thought into that or talks about it.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy

Everyone has had the thought, at some point in their lives, that life itself may be pointless. I am here to tell you that you are correct. Life is completely pointless. You are born, live for a cosmic blink of an eye, and then die. There is no Heaven, Hell, Valhalla, Nirvana. The same thing happens to you when you die that happens to a fly when you swat it. It was alive, then it's dead. Here I am going to tell you a very basic truth. What exactly are you. You are not a spirit, a soul, or even anything special. I know that sounds very hard to believe as most people spend their entire lives trying to convince themselves they are special. For if you are special then your life is not pointless. One of the reasons religion has done so well is the fact they convince people that there is a magical man in the sky watching everything they do and that he cares very much about them personally. How prosperous would a religion be that stated "God created the universe, then lost interest and went to get a Slurpee." If you really think about it, what motivates most people's actions is the desire to feel special. Competition is a huge byproduct of this need. The need to make money, gain power, even respect are all driven by the same need. Everyone just wants to feel as though their life means something and is important. Well I have bad news for you... you're not special. Don't take it too hard for I am not special either. We are both just accidents of evolution, lucky enough to live for a little while before we die and cease to exist. No matter what you do, or how much you want it, nothing will change the fact that you are not special and once you die nothing you did while you were alive will mean anything. This is actually very good news. Due to the fact that this is it, you might as well accept it. Enjoy every moment you can, because when your time is up, that's it. No reason to get stressed out or worry. None of it matters. No matter how much money you get, how many friends you have or how many homeless cats you rescue, you are still going to end up the same way the Pope, Jay Leno, and Dahmer will. So relax, take a deep breath and enjoy what little time you have.

Life Is Pointless

You know what: I could get on board with that being true but it doesnt explain away all the weird humans that have been alive that accomplsihed things out of normal everyday life expectancies. unless we believe that we killed witches that werent witches. We had people on earth that have experienced things that as long as the large group of them werent all liars then something is a little off with that theory as well.

Close to seeming like a perfect answer but not definate ya know what I mean.

Originally posted by RapturedNotBeamed

Originally posted by Akragon
Why would God select only christians? Jesus himself wasn't a christian...

To be a Christian is to follow Christ. Jesus is Christ. Lol, what a ridiculous thing to say, and you are still missing the point. Jesus' sacrifice is for everyone who accepts Him. He offers salvation to anyone who wants it.

The real con here is what you're buying into. This whole universalism idea is completely bogus. It's a counterfeit and it's a lie. Even the pope has declared that the Muslims serve the same god that the jews and christians serve. But he is deceived as well and he's just playing into the interfaith and one world religion that will exist during the days after the rapture. No secret society, military power, or government could pull off everything we see going on. Again, these things were declared in the bible and it's coming together just as God said it would. To know and understand what the bible teaches, and to not believe it after seeing what is going on in the world, is to be deceived.

Believing anyone will just magically disappear is a joke....thats what im saying. The rapture is a fairytale similar to humpty dumpty....remember him?

This is going to turn into a long arguement where no one gets anywhere...

This salvation he offers is knowledge of the spirit.......knowing that death isn't final. That is your salvation.

I've said it before and i'll say it again.....you'll be waiting a loooooong time for this rapture to happen.

Good luck with that.