Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to the Native Americans?

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I got just a few comments to make, more like repeating some things

1. Native genocide happened 30 and 40 years ago, I'm sure your parents were alive back then, stop saying that just because things happened 200-400 years ago, doesn't mean it didn't happen as recently as 30 years ago, forced sterilization of female Natives, rough estimates are 25-48% of all native women were sterilized, that is genocide in its own respect, the American government just killed bloodlines, people, children, maybe Presidents and future leaders were destroyed with the flick of a scalpel

2. Who cares if the Natives were killing settlers? it was self defense, if some foreign country came in, made treatys with the US and repeatedly broke them, took you out of your homes, raped, murdered, and tortured you, your mom, wife, kids, aunts and uncles, wouldn't you get fed up? and start fighting back?

3. I can't wait for someone bigger and badder than the US to come along and treat you like savages, then maybe, 400 years later, they will be having this discussion on wether or not they should apologize to the New Native Americans ie: all of todays people, for genocide

The ones who committed the sterilization of many groups of minorities followed the political philosophy of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Don't expect a meaningful apology from them!

reply to post by apacheman

“I take you've never read Sun Tzu? Nor really studied any warfare much would be my guess.”

Sun Tzu? Is that the best that you can do? Any mediocre war novice has read the 13 scrolls of Sun Tzu. With 4 copies or more of the book at Camp Lejune any basic infantryman knows enough Sun Tzu to think of himself as superior in battle. Where do you think their false confidence comes from in battle? No, Sun Tzu is only the beginning of war studies for the true student of war. Had you have read even the first chapter of Von Clausewitz you would have realized that all of your comments are in conflict with the supposed war that you are waging.

“The kind of war it would be wouldn't involve guns or battles, and so you'd lose because you wouldn't comprehend what was happening until far too late. But I'd much rather deal peaceably with mutual respect.”

So you think that the Apaches are or would be winning a war of ideals? Pathetic. Even the elementary Sun Tzu has stated that if you do not know yourself then you cannot win. So, your attacking America now eh? With all of your political side stepping you must have forgotten who you supposedly are? You cannot even define your enemy as your ancestors were able to. At least your ancestors had the integrity to call their enemy “The White Man”. You however, lack their integrity. Instead, you have become the politically correct sooth sayer of your enemy. So what ideal are you winning? Your religion? I’m sorry, even here you have lost, for the liberals have stolen your spirit worship and have converted to the cult of Gia Worship. While reminiscent of “The spirit of the ancestors” it is devoid of devotion to any central figure of man and hence is why the Apache no longer own or control the idea or its evolution or conclusion.

To speak in half conviction that you would win a war only to then backtrack to claim that you never called for one goes against all knowledge of war or leadership. Is your conviction lacking supposed warrior? A shadow war then? Once again pathetic. For what you are doing is becoming the enemy in your shadow tactics and the supposed ideals that you strive for are lost. You have become the white man who cannot even admit to himself who he is fighting, what he has allowed himself to become, or why.

The tribes are greedy and making deals with the devil for the worship of money. Your ancestors would rise from their graves and destroy you for heresy of their gospel if they could. But you rely on the ignorance of the people in your side stepping politics to pretend to be of the earth while living in brick homes and eating from the grocery store? Did you kill your last buffalo with an arrow on horseback, brave warrior? Or was it a rifle shot from a moving train?

Win a war? No, you’ve all ready lost more than you will ever realize because you’ve only become your enemy, not beaten them.

Casinos? Congratulations. You think by using the Jewish ideals of corrupting your enemy you will gain control over his empire? Fools. The Protocols of the Jewish Elders were taken from older text and those concerned religion, not money or power. For religion is power, money is merely the means to act a will. Or did you not learn that school of war? At least the Muslims have learned this, so I can say they are much more advanced than the American tribes are even to this day.

Degenerating the populace was for the goal of reintroducing to them stronger ideals along with religious moral backing. So, your war of gambling, drugs, sex, and degeneration is only going to enable your enemy to once again win over your victory. For the final chapter of the The Prince, Dialog in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, Mien Kampf, and The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is that the war of degenerating the nation through perversions always leads to a massive revolt against the degeneration and the burning of the those who caused it. It was this revival of spirit, of which this degeneration always is the result, was the entire goal of those in power. But they knew, each of them, that this degenerating of the nation was always only the first act that cannot be sustained indefinitely. What always follows is a revival of the people towards a religious/political backlash and rebirth of nation and purpose of which each in his time wanted to control. For the Jews it was a rebirth of the Jewish religion in that once the goyim demanded discipline it would be given to them in the form of the Jewish religion. For Hitler it would be Nazi Fascism that would be given to the Germans when they once again desired discipline from their debauchery.

So what is the Apache goal? To give discipline back to the people in the form of Spirit Worship? Ha Ha Ha. No, your degenerative war will only see yourselves as the casualty when another religious/political faction once again comes to power. You, the tribes who think themselves secret in their little war of debauchery will only gain for yourself the attack of retribution from the people once Islam, the Jews, or the Christians once again instill the discipline of discipleship to the people who will demand it. Once they do, no matter who wins, you will lose. You will be seen as the enemy of any discipline which always comes to power. And so, by using the tactics of your enemy in your pathetic, secret only to yourselves, war against America and the white man you will only bring down the downfall of your own people.

Giving coc aine to your enemy is suicide Indian if you do not also attempt to control the method of its certain eradication from the populous. Make no mistake, the powers at be will rightly finger you as the enemy of all that is right and true and they will have the truth at their side and watch in glee when the world turns against you and your not so secret war against America.

White privilege still exists. The thing is, privilege now comes with your income bracket, not so much skin color. Poor white America are finding out that TPTB don't give a damn about you. They don't care if you sink or swim, and they want you to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. The bootstrap theory is not all it's chocked up to be when you got $5 in your pocket and you need to buy groceries for a family of 3.

The country is becoming like one big reservation and over time, white privilege among the lower income bracket will sink further and white privilege will be flushed out for some time to come. It has nothing to do with your race, and everything to do with your connections and money.

But I do find it entertaining when certain people talk like they understand what it is to live in Native skin. You don't get it unless you ARE Native. I still get looks when I walk into certain gas stations owned by a white person. Same damn stigma that the Natives are going to steal something. My money is good and it's hard earned and sitting in my pocket with zero intent to steal. Doesn't matter though because my skin color says I 'm a thief anyway.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
White privilege still exists. The thing is, privilege now comes with your income bracket, not so much skin color. Poor white America are finding out that TPTB don't give a damn about you. They don't care if you sink or swim, and they want you to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. The bootstrap theory is not all it's chocked up to be when you got $5 in your pocket and you need to buy groceries for a family of 3.

The country is becoming like one big reservation and over time, white privilege among the lower income bracket will sink further and white privilege will be flushed out for some time to come. It has nothing to do with your race, and everything to do with your connections and money.

But I do find it entertaining when certain people talk like they understand what it is to live in Native skin. You don't get it unless you ARE Native. I still get looks when I walk into certain gas stations owned by a white person. Same damn stigma that the Natives are going to steal something. My money is good and it's hard earned and sitting in my pocket with zero intent to steal. Doesn't matter though because my skin color says I 'm a thief anyway.

I agree with you whole-heartedly! Except for one thing. There is no white priviledge..if you are talking about wealth and priviledge that is another matter. I have no more priviledges than you do, I get no more preferential treatment than you do, in fact, affirmative action in the case of Indians not only doesn't help your cause at all but it causes reverse racism. I don't care what skin colour someone is, if all black people are better suited to be firemen, I don't want one white guy in there because they need to have a white guy in there. He may be the best white guy out of all the white guys, but, he may fall waaaay short of being able to do the job as the black guy.

I have fallen on hard times. Lost my job, divorce, etc. I didn't sit at home sulking or blaming MY problems on society or even the gov't. I got TWO jobs and picked myself up.

As far as people staring at you when you go into the store just because you are a certain race...are these all White people? Do you think maybe they are staring at you because they have caught or been held up by many of the people that are the same race as you!? They do have a reason. Not all of them...but some of them.

Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to Native Americans?
Because the are afraid they may have to pay pain, suffering, grand theft
larceny etc,. in other words restitution. Can't have that in this day and age
no can we?

reply to post by Hot_Wings


As matter of fact, yes, I have read von Clausewitz, as well as Infanterie Gereicht by Rommel, Caesar's Commentaries, de las Casas, and numerous other renowned generals, commentators and histories. In fact I own copies of all those books, including the Chinese compendium of which Sun Tzu is merely a part. The military history section of my personallibrary contains about three hundred or so books, the ones I've chosen to keep out of all I've read.

I backtracked nothing and didn't declare any wars...if you read my posts carefully you will see that is true. You started waving the war flag for your own reasons, I simply said it would be a grave error and they would swiftly lose.

I know myself quite well, thank you very much, and I know more of the Americans than they know of themselves. They delude themselves in many ways.

As for Apache goals, well quite simply that is none of your affair.

As for the rest...you seriously need to check your meds, I think your having an unpleasant interaction.

reply to post by superman2012


You haven't experienced it, can't experience it in this country, any more than a fish can experience water as a seperate thing: it permeates the culture completely, showing up in odd ways when you least expect it. You can't experience it as we do because it is deep in your bones, inculcated with every western you watched, every false history you learned, every dismissive commentary about our "plight".

Of all the ethnic groups in America, we rank the lowest and are treated in ways both unconsciously and consciously racist, saddled with so many stereotypes and ignorant comments on a daily basis it drives you crazy.

Just look at some of the ignorant and racist comments made in this thread.

Know how many times I've been called "chief"? Or heard "woo-woo-woo" aimed at me? Or told the past is over, forget it and move on, join us, forget who you are? Or been refused housing, a job....the list is endless and unique to this country.

Do not confuse the place where the US puts us though, with where we stand or who we are.

I'm not complaining, mind you, just pointing out the reality we have to endure. It's annoying as all hell, but we've most of us worked around it and succeed despite it.

Not criticizing you, just pointing out a blind spot.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by superman2012

 

You haven't experienced it, can't experience it in this country, any more than a fish can experience water as a seperate thing: it permeates the culture completely, showing up in odd ways when you least expect it. You can't experience it as we do because it is deep in your bones, inculcated with every western you watched, every false history you learned, every dismissive commentary about our "plight".

Of all the ethnic groups in America, we rank the lowest and are treated in ways both unconsciously and consciously racist, saddled with so many stereotypes and ignorant comments on a daily basis it drives you crazy.

Just look at some of the ignorant and racist comments made in this thread.

Know how many times I've been called "chief"? Or heard "woo-woo-woo" aimed at me? Or told the past is over, forget it and move on, join us, forget who you are? Or been refused housing, a job....the list is endless and unique to this country.

Do not confuse the place where the US puts us though, with where we stand or who we are.

I'm not complaining, mind you, just pointing out the reality we have to endure. It's annoying as all hell, but we've most of us worked around it and succeed despite it.

Not criticizing you, just pointing out a blind spot.

I understand that "lets move past this" is a hurtful statement, but, the plight of your people has been addressed and the gov't is starting to do things about this. Rome wasn't built in a day.

That being said, it is absolutely unforgivable for a race to blame their hardships on what happened to their ancestors...if you were subject to going to a school, or you yourself were ripped away from your parents (without wrong doing on their part) than I would run over there and give you a hug. I don't think this has happened to you. I think that you are defending your people as a whole. Which is admirable. A little naive, but very admirable. When your people are willing to cast aside the shackles of "white" culture/money/rules/laws, start taking care of their own children instead of abusing them and in turn their children turn into abusers than I will be one of the first "white" men to applaud you and demand that Indians get ALL the respect they deserve.

I hope I haven't been disrespectful, I am merely trying to debate this with you. And I have to agree with the author of the thread, you do seem to be very charismatic and you choose your words well. Lead by example with your people, let them see what you have accomplished (alot if your comments are to be believed) and let them know that an Indian from the US can achieve alot!

reply to post by JR MacBeth


You are correct. I went off the topic a bit, but I get a little riled when I see that about the "Palestinian lands."

What I hate more, and I simply don't understand is this: once in while my mother likes to go to one of the casinos here in Northern Wisconsin. It's owned by the tribe, with no mafioso connections. Driving through town to get there one has to pass some of the housing there, and it's like being in a slum of one of the major cities. With the money they bring in NO-ONE should be living like that. I know this is but a small thing compared to what is being discussed, but for tribe members to allow that to happen just burns my butt. I never hear them talking in native language, and I bet it's not taught in their schools. and definitely not in the white public schools many go to. It's a shame that so few of them are taught history by their parents or grandparents. I hate for any peaceful culture to lose their history, and for sure the history books, written by White liberal college professors, aren't going to tell the truth.

Of all the ethnic groups in America, we are of equal rank, and are treated in ways both unconsciously and consciously racist, saddled with so many stereotypes and ignorant comments on a daily basis it drives you crazy.

edit by Chakotay...

This is the saddest thread ever started.

If you think about it, you will agree.

reply to post by superman2012

I never discuss this, for indeed the past is past and irredeemable.

But know this: my son was stolen from me and given to a white Christian family.

I haven't seen him since he was three.

Look up the Indian Child Welfare Act and its history and why it was necessary.

What happened to my ancestors happened to them, the injustices and tribulations they suffered are theirs.

What happened to me has happened to me: my hardships and tribulations are mine... I have no need to mine the past any deeper than my own to find deep injustice and child-stealing horror.

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by superman2012

 

You haven't experienced it, can't experience it in this country, any more than a fish can experience water as a seperate thing: it permeates the culture completely, showing up in odd ways when you least expect it. You can't experience it as we do because it is deep in your bones, inculcated with every western you watched, every false history you learned, every dismissive commentary about our "plight".

Of all the ethnic groups in America, we rank the lowest and are treated in ways both unconsciously and consciously racist, saddled with so many stereotypes and ignorant comments on a daily basis it drives you crazy.

Just look at some of the ignorant and racist comments made in this thread.

Know how many times I've been called "chief"? Or heard "woo-woo-woo" aimed at me? Or told the past is over, forget it and move on, join us, forget who you are? Or been refused housing, a job....the list is endless and unique to this country.

Do not confuse the place where the US puts us though, with where we stand or who we are.

I'm not complaining, mind you, just pointing out the reality we have to endure. It's annoying as all hell, but we've most of us worked around it and succeed despite it.

Not criticizing you, just pointing out a blind spot.

I understand that "lets move past this" is a hurtful statement, but, the plight of your people has been addressed and the gov't is starting to do things about this. Rome wasn't built in a day.

That being said, it is absolutely unforgivable for a race to blame their hardships on what happened to their ancestors...if you were subject to going to a school, or you yourself were ripped away from your parents (without wrong doing on their part) than I would run over there and give you a hug. I don't think this has happened to you. I think that you are defending your people as a whole. Which is admirable. A little naive, but very admirable. When your people are willing to cast aside the shackles of "white" culture/money/rules/laws, start taking care of their own children instead of abusing them and in turn their children turn into abusers than I will be one of the first "white" men to applaud you and demand that Indians get ALL the respect they deserve.

I hope I haven't been disrespectful, I am merely trying to debate this with you. And I have to agree with the author of the thread, you do seem to be very charismatic and you choose your words well. Lead by example with your people, let them see what you have accomplished (alot if your comments are to be believed) and let them know that an Indian from the US can achieve alot!

This is the OP's Husband, I've been reviewing this thread, and have made suggestions to my wife since she started this thread ...I'll tell you my story, I grew up on a reservation in Northern Minnesota, although I grew up to a "tribal royalty" my Uncle was chief for some time, and now an aunt of mine is Tribal Council, I was still too white to be Indian, and too Indian to be white, I have black hair and blue eyes, my grandmother, and 5 her kids were stolen and taken to missionaries around Minnesota, not at the same time, mind you, but it has happened, one of my aunts, was sterilized, the rest were not

My Grandfather, bought 26 acres, and in the 1950s, after returning from the war, surviving D-Day, and the battle of the bulge, found out, that his parcel of land was no longer part of the Reservation, and he would be compensated, but was it enough? no, my grandfather refused to leave, and for that, he was imprisoned for 2 weeks, he suffered humiliation, beaten, and intimidated, untill he finally accepted the fate, that he had to leave his farm

I understand, that 400 years ago, it didn't affect me, but it affects me, today. It affects people I know, people I love, I have gone to the IHS in my area, for a gall bladder problems, I couldn't eat, and I was puking day and night, and lots of other unmentionable things, the doctor looked at me, said it wasn't serious yet, and told me to come back in a week, I went to a white mans hospital, and they did surgery the next day, and it only cost me 25,000 because they didn't accept my IHS health card,

this thread does reek of racism, I just wish that people would actually see that we can't, as a people, we can't really pull ourselves up, we are stuck in a life style that is neither productive, nor beneficial, yet people say, well you have casinos, SO WHAT? it's a crying shame when we have to rely on other peoples problems to help our problems. I have no intent to see this thread go further, it only proves that people don't care about Americans slaughtering NATIVE Americans and with all respect to those that feel sorry it happened, SHAME ON YOU for those that spout that racist crap and think it's okay

reply to post by apacheman


I will absolutely do this in solidarity with you. I already dont celebrate this,as its a mockery. One day wont kill me. I will talk to my children on this though. I would want them to understand the importance of standing up for their own heritage,and the heritage of their fellow brothers who fight in this struggle,and to understand its the right thing to do. I am already anticipating what their teachers will say,when they ask how was your Thanksgiving meal.......

reply to post by zappafan1


Yes,My children belong to one of the tribes in Northern Wisconsin. I refused to take the Reservation health-care,and little money that was granted to my children,because I believe its blood money,hush money. I personally am not of American Indian decent.My childrens mother is. Their grandfather lives on the Reservation.We see him as much as my work allows me to. It is a sad place to be.A forced place to be. Its like an Island,of souls lost,in the world of Tribal Casino money.

reply to post by sonnny1


You have my deepest thanks.

You may be surprised at some of the reactions. I've known people to be offended, puzzled, understanding, and chagrined when I've declined their offer to join them for Thanksgiving.

What is especially interesting are the reactions of those who think to score a social coup by having a genuine Indian at their Thanksgiving table.

But I spend the day quietly remembering, doing chores, enjoying nature, centering myself and visualize a world and a time when our freedom is regained, and how to accomplish it peacefully.

And of course, watch football if the game is good.

reply to post by apacheman


I am honored to do it actually.

Here is my story in a nutshell.I am a single father,with custody of all my children. Their mother was a by-product of the reservation. Drugs and Alcohol,and its effects led her to a life of imprisonment,and now a slow death from the effects in an Arizona prison. I always wondered how someone who had such beautiful children,couldnt escape the life of her past. I really struggled with it. That all changed when I started to regularly see her father. The weekly visits,to get some intervention going,while she struggled with her dependency's.She hid them very well from me.I saw first hand how widespread the problem was.To see her cousins,aunts,sister,all facing this same problem,with no help in sight.The concept of intervention was foreign,because almost all of them were dependent on something.It was quite sad. No amount of Casino money to fix something that's been ingrained for years.It was so normal for them to continue to follow a predestined forced way of living,with no real hope. I gave up drinking shortly afterward.It was that profound. So yes,I do understand the extent of systematic eradication of Native Americans,and their culture,that still persists today. Anyone that says its not happening,still to this day,hasnt opened their eyes,or doesnt want to see.I talk to my children,to be proud of who they are. Not just Native American,but to be human,above all else. I am not always right on certain subjects,and my views might not always be the norm,but in this,I know I am right.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
One more thing…

What the hell makes you think that there is some white man conspiracy against all the minorities? The government doesn’t give a damn about “Anyone”, not just you. What do you think the tea party movement is all about anyway? It’s about everyone taking our government back from the evil corporate billionaires who have swindled all of us, red, black, and white.

You think the “White Guy” is in control in racist conspiracy? Ha Ha Ha, give me a friggen break! It’s the power broker billionaire oil men, bankers, lawyers, and globalist corporate ceo’s that rule the world! White suburban wal-mart worker is just as screwed as everyone else.

You want to point fingers? How about 700 billion in bail outs to banking fraud with not a single banker in jail? They are the ones to blame for the shortfalls in this country ever since the days of standard oil and JP Morgan. But you racist minorities can’t handle the truth! We have all been screwed over for decades by handfuls of billionaire globalist elites, all of us have, not just you.

You want the American government to fix your racist classified problems? Then buy out our senators and presidency like the Chinese have and then they might do what you want too. Our government elitists are all about money, and I don’t have it anymore than you do so, no, they aren’t going to do what you want anymore then they are going to do what I want.

Assuming any of what you say is true....
How does FURTHER insulting people who have also suffered indignities HELP anything?


I am a poor white girl and yet I have to count my blessings because my life could certainly be worse.

And that tea party....?

You are being divided and conquered again. Following the loudest voices and the fancy signs you miss the big picture completely. You back an event bought and paid for by the same elite that enslave the most workers and keep them hungry, insecure, desperate, surviving on crumbs thrown from profits.
You are marching for those vested interest monopolies, conglomerates, global groups responsible for the rise of the Chinese, supporting the same monopolies that brought us "made in China" send American jobs overseas, overwork people and take away benefits.
The giant corporations that made their fortune off the American people (people who purchased products broken or obsolete now) have left for greener pastures, they've gone global and cut lose their own people.
Do you shop at Walmarts? Do you enjoy the wealth you have brought to China? These global companies began in America, did not and will not keep and invest the money in the family, in America.

Government is acting now to try and make this at least undesirable, if not prevent it.

Who could be against something like health care? Health Care is going the way of family leave
Benefits? Vacations? Retirement or pension? 40 hours week?
Do you think it is "the government" taking all this away?

"Our government" working properly and with educated voters paying attention and participating is designed to prevent any undue influence from these sorts of conglomerates.
Our government is designed to act in the best interest of 'the people' and 'the people' can always force the issue. Legally. We don't have to have an uprising.

ALTHOUGH EVERYONE DID NOT AND perhaps would not PARTICIPATE OR CONDONE what amounts to sometimes clearly underhanded and secretive actions of "our government" such as genocide, assimilation, enslavement of indigenous peoples, forced slavery, war crimes, biological testing on it's own people, crimes against the mentally ill... etc. etc. but ....it happens. Less here in America than in many other places but ...it happens.

Still, when WE THE PEOPLE get hold of a story or see an injustice we will through media pressure, use the government, the courts and our constitutional rights and avenues for CORRECTION.
We try and right the wrongs.

Never properly, and it is never enough... but it is a step in a difficult journey that often involves innocent people on BOTH sides.
Some of the injustices cannot be repaid, ever, regardless of what is done.
This is no reason not to try and do our best to at least acknowledge a wrong.
No, no one can broadly sweep and say...."the white people" since a great many "white people" fought together and some even died for the civil and personal rights of various minorities and this diminishes their efforts and their lives. True enough they seem to be in the minority and wielded little to no power...but essential to the fight.

Under the auspices of the government tent there are drug experiments on it's own citizens in the news recently.
My sister has cancer we both trace it to secret atomic tests in the 60's where a radioactive cloud drifted away from the test site and settled over the Capital of NY State. Then it rained, bringing the radioactive dust to the ground in the city.
It affected everyone, the white working class as well as the Governors Mansion and rest of the people of Albany and to this day not many of them even know about it. They were not told about the "accident."
"A Good Day Has No Rain" is the only expose on the "injustice" to the people of Albany. If enough of the victims can prove their illness and cancer is related (I used to say there is something in the water - so many people got sick and died) they might get an apology and even damages if they pursued it through the courts.
I don't think anyone will, but nice to know we can.

America has no monopoly on greed, corruption, screwups.
Yet these can be found in every group, family, tribe, and country.
They infect the party, the religion, the race.
We have traitors, the few among many good people.

Our country is no better than any one of us...it has a dark side.

This is no reason to deteriorate from the inside- just because we all share a "different" mottled past.

In fact...here's what I think.

Probably cos to do so would be to admit guilt and liability....

...leading to reparations of $trillions.

Cosmic...

reply to post by apacheman


Billions in foreign aid are given to governments like Pakistan and you say nothing.
Imports from China flood our markets and destroy American companies and you say nothing.
Thousands of our troops are dying in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that are based on lies and you say nothing.

Instead, you cry a pity party for an apology for the Indians. But the Indians will not give an apology to America for all its murder and theft. Blood are on both hands here Indian, and the red skin title is befitting for you in this case. Take down your debauchery casinos that are trying to destroy America from within and first apologize for your own actions and then I might think about even mentioning an apology for you.

You think all that has happened to you is because of your DNA differences? You have learned nothing then. There are no problems in the world that are because of race. Instead, things happen because of the physics that every action causes an equal and opposite reaction. There is only one Bible, one Quran, and one Torah for all people. There is only one supposed unifying idea of a faith even for the Indians. This highlights the truth that all evils are done because of the sins of greed, avarice, gluttony, sloth, murder, and so forth. The commandments are not one set for the black, one set for the whites, and another for the reds. No, they are one set for all that state the “Actions” that all of us are not to do. Thou shalt not “Steal”. Thou shalt not commit “adultery”. Thou shalt not "Kill", and so forth. And “Thou” means all people for all time.

But no, your racism demands that you falsely see your problems from rose colored glasses. It was racism, hatred, and murder that was the root cause of all your problems. And you claim to have studied war? War is about actions and has nothing to do with racisms. Racism is not even mentioned in the books on war or logic, for it has no merit in either. Why? It is because we all know from the very core of our being that the color of our skin is outside of our control. The human mind cannot attach meaning to a cause from something that is only a factor of circumstance outside of choice. Instead, people are grouped by color due to ease of association only and then actions are then attached to the group as a whole.

It is those actions that are the cause of any racism, not a sense of false bigotry. Every race of people in history is judged by their actions alone, they are only grouped by their race if it is convenient. If you feel wronged Indian, then all logic and texts of warfare would state that it is because of your own actions. Stop waging an illogical war as a racist before demanding an apology from the other side who won the war that you started.

“The White Man” you Indian racist, came to America in peace and it was the Indians who slaughtered them. The Indians first declared war against others and have been paying for it ever since. Do you want to blame someone for your loss? You have no further to look than the actions of your own people. But you go ahead and claim that you are a student of war to me and then demand an apology from your chosen enemy for a war that you started. And by the way, warrior, in what document on war does it state, “Ask for an apology when you lose battle"? You need to re-read what you think you know.

reply to post by Chakotay


Nice to see you Chakotay, and after mangling your name on the previous page (sorry), at least we know now how the name is properly spelled!

I mentioned Chakotay, the Star Trek Voyager character because it seems there was a message in some of those episodes that (finally) had some of the Native American perspective. I don't know if the actor was personally involved in some of the writing, but there must have been some Indian input, I would think.

If I recall, some of these issues were first brought up on the "Next Generation", when we learn that in the future, some Indians went to colonize a planet, specifically to preserve their ways, with the assumption being that even in the future, they apparently still couldn't do it on Earth. As poignant as that was to begin with, the episode I'm thinking of ended up with yet some other alien empire giving them the boot.

The "message" seemed to be that perhaps things would never change. I don't know if there was a Native American writer on the show, but these select episodes on the two shows did a great job of conveying the paradoxical attitude that I pick up from the few Indians I have known. On the one hand, they seem to have lost all hope, but on the other, there remains a hope that just refuses to die.

I wonder if in the fictional Star Trek future, a real "apology" was ever given?

JR