Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

ATS is supporting ignorance concerning chemtrails--every time it fails to place [HOAX] around yet another thread on this so-called conspiracy. The whole Chemtrails issue shows how gullible some people are, mistaking simple contrails for some vast spreading of, oh, something, anyway, all over the earth. Nobody can quite say what or what for, or explain the logistics involved. I don't know if the issue of Chemtrails has done quite as much harm to the ATS reputation as threads like "I was an alien in my past life" or "Queen Elizabeth is a reptilian," but it surely comes close. The belligerant attitude of proponents of this nutjob idea just makes it less credible. Do you actually expect to be taken seriously?

reply to post by Blaine91555

Explain why the Pilots and Crews who would be fully aware they were spraying are all keeping it secret. Most of the Contrails being called Chemtrails are from Commercial Airlines. Meaning they could not carry any luggage or cargo so how could the crews not know?

Why don't you explain why you fail to understand what compartmentalization is?

I think this most certainly belongs with the speculative topics. At least until all the believers get some air samples in a verifiable way and have them tested by competent labs, which would be easy to do if you are right.

You also think that ALL Chemtrail researchers believe the same exact thing.
I would put little stock in your opinion, mostly due to your overtly obvious discrimination-based tactics.

"Make you feel unwell" Sorry that is just grabbing at straws. You seen how many Seniors are out running every day lately? The truth is simple enough. We live longer every generation and we are healthier in our old age. I know that totally debunks some conspiracy theories but perhaps it's time for those theories to die. They are mostly propagated by Snake Oil companies selling their books and Snake Oil. Sad how many they fool out of their money. Now there is a real conspiracy. Fake conspiracies to trick people into buying worthless health products.

That person wasn't grasping at straws, that is called hypothesizing. You call it "grasping" to make Chemtrail researchers look desperate.

All those seniors did most if their living before Chemtrails started. Their bodies are less saturated with crap, then younger people.

It's funny, you keep asking for "proof" but you spout nonsense without any real basis.
If we were living so long AND healthily, then why do nursing homes exist?
You do know what a NURSING home is for right?

Nothing about long-life really debunks any conspiracy theory. You just make that claim because it suits your purpose. You certainly FAILED to explain how...I can only wonder why....LMAO.

Why don't you prove that most conspiracy theories are propagated by Snake oil companies, after all you are all about the proof right? Oh, that's right...you just make claims and don't back them up. Then you cast an accusing tone at Chemtrail researchers when they do it. That makes you a hypocrite.

Fake conspiracies...LOL. The irony that YOU would use that statement after what you have been posting. You don't want to recognize chemtrails, that's fine. But you have no intellectual high-ground if all you are gonna do is make up lies, and invent extensions onto a possible-conspiracy for the purpose of making it look ridiculous.

You love proof so much, then you can start by showing your own.

reply to post by laterallateral


Go ahead and show us persistent trails that stay in the sky and spread across it for hours.

Show us on a video that was made pre-90's.

reply to post by Rohdan


I know. For some unknown, illogical reason, this thread OP doesn't recognize "contrailscience" because the person who does all the work to keep it going uses "GoDaddy" as a host server!!!

Gee....what a logical, and well-thought-out reason to dismiss a website that is full of factual, scientific information!!

Found the thread, on the KC-10 tanker. Mistaken by THAT (now banned) OP for a real "chem"-trail video:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

An excellent resource, from Page #1 of that thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Page #3:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

There was another thread that branched off this one (can't find it yet) where the guy holding the camera, and speaking on the soundtrack, posts and explains his joke! (He took the video down from his YouTube Channel...but, it went viral before that)....

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Gee....what a load of fanciful rubbish!!

It boggles the mind, the fantasies people can concoct. You may be able to sell that to Hollywood, it's about as realistic as most modern movies of that genre.....

Being skeptical is a good thing.

Not accepting something because there is no evidence supporting it is not ignorant.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Of course I know what a Contract is Your saying they signed a contract to poison the citizens and nobody is going public? I'm not buying that without proof.

So you are completely ignorant of NDA's?

Why are you asking me to prove that Chemtrails are real? If your asking me to prove they are not, that is irrelevant. The onus is on you to prove they exist. You are claiming they are not speculative. Prove it to me.

Why don't you prove your claim that Snake-oil companies are inventing conspiracies?

Could you please enlighten us as to the history of Chemtrails, how they were discovered and by Who. Also the chemical composition of them and their purpose. Please include the names of the labs who tested the air samples, who took the samples and any other pertinent information.

Oh, so you are NOT familiar with the history of the subject?
Thanks for proving that every statement you have made is from ignorance of the subject.

You have no place asking for proof, since you don't prove your own claims.

Patents for aircraft mounted aerosol delivery systems is not proof, unless you can show they are being used for something other than crop dusting or cloud seeding.

That's actually called circumstantial evidence. Not that your proven ignorant amount of knowledge of the subject qualifies you to decide what is cogent or germaine.

Also since it is a fact we live longer and are healthier, explain why these dangerous Chemtrails you can't even define are causing us any harm if they do exist?

Living long is only a fact for certain people, not all of them.
Again, why do all these healthy seniors need NURSING homes?

Chemtrails are easy to define.
A persistent trail left by KC-135 tankers, when known environmental conditions make such persistent trails very unlikely. Especially when commercial flights in the same skies don't make any persistent trails.

I won't even get into the fact that KC-135's circle my area and fuel NOTHING. But since I'm biased, I'm sure my testimony is just "snake-oil company" generated conspiracies, like you claimed but failed to prove.

As for WHY they are spraying us, why do they do anything?
Why do they purposely devalue money by printing to much?
Why do they force-feed people Fluoride through the water system?
Why do they allow Aspartame, a Lupus causing substance, into our foods?

Why do you make claims and fail to back them up, but deride Chemtrail researchers for the same thing?

Who knows?

reply to post by Blaine91555


You can go ahead and take this opportunity to go back through your posts on this topic, and prove 100% of your claims.

I'm waiting for you to prove that "snake-oil companies" generate conspiracies.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I choose to opine that your claim that the elderly are "running alongside the young people" is completely fraudulent.

Please provide proof of your claim. Since you stated the elderly in general, then you will have to prove that most seniors can do this.

just watch What in the world are they spraying, that did it for me

reply to post by DJW001


Cause one single population represents everyone?
How does that work?

You say we are being hysterical, well you are being ridiculous.
You are also drawing unreasonable conclusions.

Perhaps there is something invigorating about living in Canada.
Maybe Universal healthcare actually works somehow? (lol)

But, no...you draw the conclusion that makes people opposing you look ridiculous.

How selective of you.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Nefarious
I find it nothing short of amazing that despite such a plethora of official documentation regarding aerial chemical dispersion this topic is shrugged so ignorantly. Sure, you can argue which trails are actually chemically laden (versus normal commercial exhaust), who's doing the spraying, and why. But if you look at all you'll find plenty of documentation showing this to be done by various agencies for various reasons, and given how people dismiss the blatantly acknowledged there certainly is left a door wide open for far more sinister exploitation of this technology.

You'll find DOE, NASA, and DOD acknowledgement of chemtrails for:

Geoengineering (flood/draught avoidance, weather optimization...)
Anti-Geoengineering (AGW counter measures, pollution simulations...)
Weapons simulations (chemical attacks, biological attacks, fissile dispersion...)
EMF shield (natural EMF such as that from solar & earth interactions, unnatural EMF such as EMF weaponry)

nobody denys that it's happened in the past. We deny that every contrail that lasts longer than 10 minutes is a chemtrail, and we deny that a guy in michigan can watch a contrail make it snow.

dude, you're in Michigan, it snows there with our without airplanes.

I find it absurd to assume that it has stopped, but I can understand the desire for proof.

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by dreadblitz
just watch What in the world are they spraying, that did it for me

Did you bother to check into any of their claims? They took junk science to new highs in that one.

Here is a hint - the earths crust is around 8 percent aluminum by weight, and its everywhere in the soil and present in dust. They actually get alarmed, at lower than average levels of aluminum, and try to claim that you should not have any in the soil.

My first post here at ats was about persistant contrails/chemtrails.I was a longtime lurker here at ATS but events compelled me to finally join so I could reply to an earlier thread. I live in a rural area. Very rural. I know what is the "norm" as far as aircraft flying around my area. Normally it's not strange to see a plane at very high altitude flying over every now and then. You can hear them and then spot the plane. The nearest descent size airport is about 3-4 hours away. The only airport(s) closer are gonna be basically very tiny. Mostly for cropdusters lol.....About 2 months ago the amount of airtraffic increased exponentially. I'm talking about seeing 4 and five at a time in a 10 minuite time span. That was just what I saw when I was outside. There was obviously something different going on. Oddly enough these planes were leaving a long trail behind them that persisted for quite some time. During this same time period helicopters were also flying around the area. Two of them actually flew over low and close enough for me to see them close up. These things were flying low people. This activity was/is extemely out of the ordinary. I've been living there for over 25 years. The two choppers that I saw were black in color and I could not make out any markings on them. This increased plane activity lasted for about 2 weeks. Sometimes the planes looked like they were flying paralel to eachother leaving a very long line of contrails-chemtrails behind them. All in a row. It was very very strange. The plane activity has since died down. But you can still very clearly hear choppers around the area. Mostly at night around 3-5 am. I have not seen any more choppers with my 2 eyes since then though. But I know that they're around. I can hear them in the distance. When I related my story I was met with much sarcasm. Like: "oh well it's just crazy to have planes flying over your area huh....." OR, "oh it must be a conspiracy to have choppers fly over your house....." That is not what I was trying to say at all. I dont really give a damn though. I was just relating what I've been seeing. Well I'm telling you guys that it is very out of the ordinary. I know my area. I know what I saw and had other people take notice too. We all saw the what was going on. I am not a liar nor was I seeking some sort of recognition for my claim. I was just relating my story. I know something out of the ordinary was (is) going on. I saw it for weeks. You couldnt go outside without seeing 4 or 5 planes in the air at one time (during the day). Leaving long trails of course.
To add to this strange activity: 3 nights ago I got a semi frantic/excited call from a friend of mines father. It was about 9pm. He told me to go outside and look the the west. Him, his son, and my cousin were looking at some very strange lights in the sky. I live out in the sticks with no street lights so I was sure that I would be able to see what they were seeing. I could not. The object were to low on the horizon and I beleive that I had trees blocking my view. This guy is ex special forces while he was in vietnam. He said they lights started out as one big "row" of very bright white lights moving slowly. Not over his house but off in the distance. The lights then changed into a triangular pattern. At this point I was very excited because I know countless numbers of other people have seen this same sort of triangular pattern. I myself have never seen a UFO. I was of course desperately trying to see what they were seeing and I couldnt. I then grabbed my video camera and jumped into my car very quickly to go and meet them in the part of "town" right outside of the rural area that I live in. When I say small town, I mean small. I wouldnt call it a city. It's a town. By the time it took me 10 mins to get there we could not see the object anymore. They also said that the object was accompanied by several planes. Flying parallel and behind it. I cannot veryify this account because I did not see it for myself. I tried my best to document this but could not get there in time. I really dont think these 3 trusted people would lie to me. They were all pretty shook up over it. I told them months ago about the planes/choppers in the area and have also been taking notice of the strange events around here. My friend and his dad have seen rows of "military" choppers flying over during the day occasionally. I myself have heard choppers flying around here just about every night. Like I stated before, I havent been able to see them though with cloud cover. It always seems to be between 3-5 am (I'm a night owl) and I'm assuming at a distance. It's very quiet where I live and these aircraft are very noisy. It's pretty easy to determine the sound of a helicopter. Especially where I live. My mother has also witnessed a row of 5 what she described as military style choppers flying over our town while driving from our rural home to the small town that we work in. She saw this once. She does not believe in conspiracy theories what so ever. All of this equals "something going on" in my opinion. I'm not saying that it was aliens that my friends saw. Nor am I saying that the increased plane activity was sinister. But I can say this for sure. It is NOT normal. Everything I have said here is true. Like I stated before I really dont give a damn if people dont believe me, think I'm trying to get attention, or just blowing things out of porportion. I know what I saw and I know what I am continuing to see. Take this story how you will but it's all true. I'm just trying to figure some of this stuff out.
Regards,
Riff

reply to post by stars15k


You are disingenuously grouping ALL chemtrail researchers together.
Why should anyone pay attention to such discrimination?

You assume that not a single one of us knows anything about the weather.
Care to conclusively prove this?
Or are you just desperately making up "facts" to go with your discrimination?

You assume that conditions are right for persistent trails, without considering that these persistent trails may be forming where they shouldn't. That's called ignorance.

People have done numerous tests on the material left behind. You refuse to look at or consider it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist like you claim. It just means you aren't willing to look at all the evidence.

I don't know why you keep saying cloud. Where talking about trails left by aircraft, not natural clouds. Perhaps you need a refresher course in the subject.

Sure, maybe this or that particular Chemtrail researcher might be goal-post moving, but claiming that we all are is just a big old lie.

Uh, the fact that there is a group of people who can be thought of as Chemtrail believers, or researchers, or whatever else...does mean there is a consensus of sorts. We weren't born believing in Chemtrails, in fact some of us are old enough to remember a time before Chemtrails. It's something we have considered and found true.

The chemical sheen of a chemtrail is quite obvious, at least it is to me with my 20/10 vision. Your limitation and inability to recognize the difference is your own issue.

reply to post by network dude


You can ask a group of men how women think, and get a different answer from every man.

Does that mean women don't think, because a group can't decide how they think?

www.scientificamerican.com...


www.dri.edu...
Lots to drill down at many of these sources, and the above:
adim.dri.edu...
www.dri.edu...
www.dri.edu...
www.dri.edu...

This laboratory is used to prepare for field experiments at DRI’s Storm Peak Laboratory and other locations around the country. The focus of our research is the effect of aerosols on cloud properties, precipitation formation, and regional haze. Cloud, snow, and aerosol samples are processed in the laboratory for chemical analysis at DRI and outside laboratories like INSTAAR at the University of Colorado.

www.dri.edu...

There are a lot of descriptions that would have made good quotes, and that's such a small portion of what's out there regarding just the atmospheric research aspect of field experiments that will fall under the "chemtrail" umbrella.

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by stars15k

 

You assume that conditions are right for persistent trails, without considering that these persistent trails may be forming where they shouldn't. That's called ignorance.

no it isn't. Ignorance is saying that the conditions are not right without evidence.

the conditions for formation of persistant contrail are well known - given a persistant contrail it is a perfectly reasonable assumption to conclude that teh conditions at the contrail are suitable for formation of a persistant contrails.

claiming that we don't KNOW that is fair enough - but that lack of actual knowledge is not evidence of a chemtrail either.

People have done numerous tests on the material left behind.

Wher and when? All the testing I've ver seen has been of dirt, sludge, airborn dust, and has not actually shown any reasonable connection with anything sprayed oteh than they aer in the same rough geographical area - by which I mean anywhere withing 100 miles!

You refuse to look at or consider it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist like you claim. It just means you aren't willing to look at all the evidence.

Rubbish - the so-called testing by Arizona Skywatch, in WITWATS, at Mt Shasta, the KSLA - it has all benn looked at in some detail and shown to be utterly useless - eithe simply incorrect, or measuring dirt, and, as one otehr posteer pointed out, getting all bothered about levels of aluminium that are less than you would usually expect in dirt!!

I don't know why you keep saying cloud. Where talking about trails left by aircraft, not natural clouds. Perhaps you need a refresher course in the subject.

And yuo have the audacity to accuse otehrs of ignorance?

do you realise that one of the major components of combustion exhaust is water vapour? whether on the ground from your car or at 35,000 feet from a jet liner - both are making water vapour.

And what are clouds if not water vapour? Whether you believe in chemtrails or not, contrails are mostly water vapour - so if conditions are suitable for clouds of "natural" water vapour to hang around for hours, why can they not be suitable for clouds of "unnatural" water vapour to hang around? teh water vapour does not care how it was made - only what the atmospheric conditions are.

The chemical sheen of a chemtrail is quite obvious, at least it is to me with my 20/10 vision. Your limitation and inability to recognize the difference is your own issue.

And that's about the level of so-called evidence that is ever offered - you can "see the chemical sheen" .......what colour is it then? Simlar to rainbows perhaps?

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

Get this ridiculous devastation of the skies figured out then , and find a goddam fix for it,,

WELL, if everything is better than before WHY IN BLAZES cant someone find a way not to destroy the skies...why are these BETTER engines causing contrails that somehow keep finding ice particles to attach to for up to SIX HOURS !! HOW IN THE BLOODY HELL DOES 4 planes flying across the sky , in -40 or so blot out the entire sky !!! .

Well, to get rid of this "devastation" would require changing the laws of physics. Got any ideas on how to do that?

As for the engines, yes they are cleaner and more efficient, but the condensation trails they leave are not an emission, they are a by product of of the heat and an emission from the engine, an emission called water.

Please take a read here:
Turbofan

Those particles would have cooled INSTANTLY

They actually cooled much faster than instantly. As the water vapor exits the engine, it sublimates (turns from vapor directly to ice while skipping the water phase) and creates the condensation by nuleating the supersaturated air. If the humidity is high enough and the temperature is low enough, the resulting condensation will persist...just like a cloud.

I am starting to get angry with this crap..

People tend to get angry at things they don't understand...

reply to post by Blaine91555



Strangely enough, we keep living longer and longer lives each generation and we are healthier when we die, despite the Chemtrails. Any explanation?



Because our understanding of health, well being, healthcare, nutrition and the life cycle and life development has grown a thousand fold in the last 200 years. Therefore, each generation has the oportunity to live longer and healthier lives. It should be considered that despite the poisoning we receive from our environment, whether you believe in chemtrails or not, polution is everywhere and our healthcare measures help to counteract those effects.