Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

This same thought/idea has been hovering around me for years too.

I am also in my early 20's. Materialistic things never caught my eyes. I never went on to college after HS (couldn't afford and didn't know what I wanted to do. I'm not about to waste my money when I have no idea what I want.) Most of my family members are against my decision not to attend. My mother, though, is proof of why I should not go if I cannot decide. My mother went to college to become a nurse. She finished all her schooling and what did she do? She never went into nursing. Instead she now works at the City County building downtown in the Planning Department. How did she get her job? Connections. Her older sister also worked at the City County building (different department) and referred my mother in. No college education was required of her.

Went a bit off topic there, sorry.

I, too, have had this feeling that work is un-natural. I have read a few pages of your comments and many I agree with. I will say, frame of mind is everything. I am fortunate enough that I have a job where when I am not working, I can sit on my butt and read (and during the winter it feels like I am literally paid to sit and read). I have recently been reading books on spiritual (not christian, but overall spirituality and inner growth, etc). These books I have been reading the past few months, and they have transformed my way of thinking and feeling in a tremendous way. Work doesn't feel so.. ugh this does not feel right, why must I do this? It really is a frame of mind, though that does not mean that the way work is portrayed as now is the best, or correct solution.

Over the past few months me and my husband have talked about what would make us happier in light of all of this. Course, we would love to live off of the land, have our own food and resources at our disposal, stop 'working for the man', etc, but we also know our limits. I have a rare heart disease, and he has a muscular problem, and in time it will be difficult for us to live off the land like we would truly love. Instead we have made a goal that we are intending on keeping. We plan on moving somewhere warmer (we now live in Indiana, and for some reason we both really want to move to Arizona). My husband is starting his own internet business, and though it is slow now we know that with patience it will work out (he is doing something he loves, that actually doesn't even feel like a job to himself, he loves it). Something I am highly into is herbalism, and natural remedies and the like. For roughly a year now we have been making our own sodas and tinctures. In time, I plan on becoming an herbalist and hopefully either sell tinctures to others or help educate others. If my husbands internet business does work well, then I could pursue my dream of working with tinctures and being an herbalist. An added benefit with these jobs is that we would love to live in a motor home and travel around (if I become an herbalist, we could travel to places where craftshows are happening and could sell that way etc.)...

My main point is, what should help you through this (like what's helped me) is first ask yourself what it is about work that seems un-natural about it? And then ask yourself what is your ideal work/living conditions (no matter how far fetched they seem). And then, little by little, see how you can compromise your current work life with what you'd like to see happen. For my situation, although nothing has happened yet to come towards my goal, just doing the tinctures and talking and knowing a plan has helped. In a few months it may not, but then perhaps I can do something different. I know that it'd be hard to become and herbalist right now (and perhaps his internet business wont succeeed?) but we wont let it worry us till that happens.


I hope I didn't get too far off topic here on you. I really do understand where you are coming from. I would love to travel the world in the end, especially Germany and Australia. My current work makes it feels like I have no personal life. Ever since I started working 3 years ago I have worked EVERY WEEKEND since I started. I have been promised I'd get X weekend off, or X saturday, etc and it never happens. I have 2 kids, and working every weekend is rough to spend time with them. I work from 5am till noon-2 depending on the day and must go to bed by 7 (before my own kids!) If I wish to have 8 hours of sleep. It's been like this for 3 years now, and though I really love my job (it is quite enjoyable) and I get paid pretty good (with no benefits though ) I need a different job.. something different to get my life back. Finally have the time to spend with my kids (and private time with my hubby too!).

reply to post by Dearheart

I think that we have been enslaved. You can talk about the far left the far right all you like it doesn't make a slight difference because all politicians answer to the same masters. The work ethic given to you by society is only to ensure that you work, not for yourself, but to earn money for them. You work, you are a slave, you work for yourself, you pay more taxes to them. Wake up people there is something very wrong with this system. Its not the politicians that need changing it is the system. When money is king then we will always be surfs, slaves. If you want freedom get rid of money and debt and live free.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I whoteleartedly disagree with this idea. Not only is working to earn one's keep absolutely natural, but it ought to be the chief source of pride for a human being. Your work is your source of independence and your means to provide for yourself, your family and any diversion you may be drawn to. If you don't work, you are necessarily dependent upon another individual or group's charity.... Unless you intend to cheat and steal your way to survival, which at least is more honest, albeit despicable.

reply to post by Replicator EYD

I respect your view. But in this current system you are nothing more than a slave, you meaybe a contented slave but you are a slave.
I think that we should consider a new way of life without money. Soon they will bring the economies to ruin as they have long planned in order to replace it with a one world bank and a one world currency. this will be switched to microchipping and then you will know what being controlled is like. You upset your masters then and your chip will be deactivated. think about how you feed yourself or your family then.
Your work does not define who you are.

Originally posted by Replicator EYD
reply to post by GeminiSky

 

I whoteleartedly disagree with this idea. Not only is working to earn one's keep absolutely natural, but it ought to be the chief source of pride for a human being. Your work is your source of independence and your means to provide for yourself, your family and any diversion you may be drawn to. If you don't work, you are necessarily dependent upon another individual or group's charity.... Unless you intend to cheat and steal your way to survival, which at least is more honest, albeit despicable.

If you work for someone you are fully dependent on them keeping you on and paying your wage, so your argument that work makes you independent is moot. The only people who are truly independent are those on farms, etc, who can provide their own food, use their own cattle, and burn wood etc to warm their homes. The rest of us, if you follow the trail down the line, are always dependent on the government whether we like to admit it or not... And at some future point the government can either withdraw your benefits or raise your tax to the point you can't live anymore. Either way, the bastards have us all by the short and curlies...

Ok so how the heck do you expect to get from where ever you live to Europe if no one works. Because if you dont have to work then no one should have to. Fact is this is the biggest bunch of pathetic whining I have heard since I stopped communicating with my X-wife.

If you dont like your hours....get another job. I am US military, and I cant count on my fingers and toes the number of countries I have visited......all because it is PART of my Job.

Fact is buddy, you made the choices you did, which landed you where you are now...in a job where the hours suck and you dont make enough to travel the world.

If we were meant to all live self sufficiently without work, in little communities then no one would travel anyway, because there would be no long distance means of travel.....

Anyway....my point is.....the world is what it is....the system is what it is....you are capable of changing your circumstance...BUT YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!

reply to post by ATC_GOD


First off, I would like you to understand that the "external content" box, shows that this is not typed by me. Therefore it is not me who is daydreaming about Europe.

I do agree with you that where I am now is a sum of all choices I was faced with, some which were not voluntary mind you.

You may have unresolved emotional issues with your ex wife, please dont assume to know who I am and put me in the same group.

--GS

reply to post by Reflection


I never meant to imply that I believed that working any job you hate is what makes the world go around, I tried not to, and I apologize if that's the way it comes across.
But you make a good point: If the machines and technology took over the majority of jobs, the economy would crumble and people would lose shelter, clothing and food. I don't believe that everyone should live chained to their job - I believe that they should find a 'calling' if you will, and go with that. Some people enjoy a large corporate style setting, and thrive in it, some prefer smaller settings, some prefer to live as minimalists and work only the total number of hours it takes to feed and clothe and shelter themselves. It's all well and good. I just don't believe there is one right answer to this. Do I think that a single mom should have to scrub toilets and work factories and lose her quality of life? No. Do I think that there are some people who are perfectly content doing these things, and focusing on their personal life for fulfillment? Yes. I know these people, I work with some. I'm not one of them, and I don't see them as particularly ambitious, but it's their life.
From the beginning of time, work in some form was required in order to survive.
Farmers in the 1800s worked sun up to sun down six days a week and didn't blink. It was a survival issue. The average work week of a modern day American is a fraction of the hard labor of 60+ hours that farmers worked in order to have the basic necessities.
Work is very necessary, even if you're not working for "the man"...If we don't work, we die. Sharks stop swimming they die, and it's the same basic concept. I'd rather work then not do anything; would I prefer to have the time to devote to my interests, and travel the country and beyond? Yes, but that's not the hand life dealt me, and the sooner I come to terms with my poverty level job and the fact that I'm going to have to pick my own life up and make it what I want it, the sooner I'll be happy.

I find this an interesting topic and it makes me wonder if we are not beginning to see signs of a shift in global consciousness. The dawning of the age of Aquarius...cue music

Seriously though, looking at many of these posts, particularly those by people in their 20s, it does seem that attitudes are changing. OK this site and thread cannot be considered an accurate sample but it should be given further study.

Here in Sweden, a study was done into attitudes to work among the young. It found that there has been a shift in the way young people viewed their future work and careers. They differed from earlier generations, seeing work more as a means to an end rather than the end itself. I have tried searching for this study online and couldn't find it. Will have another look after I finished posting, but it was reported on TV some time in the past year.

So what if globalisation, the internet, access to more information with sites like ATS are enabling young people to challenge the status quo and question the perceived wisdom that, you gotta get a job and work hard until you can retire, blah, blah, blah...

I think it is also interesting to consider whether improved communications are making young people feel more like they are part of a global society than one that is restricted and defined by its historical borders.

Somewhere out there, among the bright young twenty-somethings (I exclude myself being positively ancient at 36) somebody may well be on the cusp of finding an alternative way for us to live our lives. Some ground-breaking idealogical shift that will enable us to move away from the pernicious greed of capitalism to a more productive and far-sighted vision for our species.

Thoughts?

at least you have a wife. sure you can find a way out of it. There are some who are alone who have no motivation or sense of purpose, who do they work for? Themselves? Who are they without someone else to work for? Is your job purposeful? Do you feel you are the best for the job? Does being alone scare you and you'd think you have no real purpose?

L.E.T.S. (Local Exchange Trading Systems) is a means of exchanging goods and services without using the state's legal tender. We must earn legal tender to pay taxes but apart from that it is used by concensus alone as a means to simplify barter.

L.E.T.S. requires only about 12 people to get started. Everyone is paid the same hourly rate of whatever notional currency the group decides upon (just make up a silly name for it) no matter the task. (Pet sitting, joinery, gardening, accountantcy services etc) The person carrying out the admin receives their 'pay' for undertaking that task. Those using the services of a tradesperson that requires materials provide the materials required.

Time is the most valuable asset we have - this system recognises that and the value of every individual participant - unlike the corporate world.

reply to post by ATC_GOD


If people are capable of changing their circumstances then why is there little to no social mobility in America?

Are you implying that the bottom 50% are mostly lazy losers and the top 50% are there because they worked so much harder than the rest?

reply to post by StopandThink


I agree with you that work is necessary. However, LABOR is not! The reason people over a hundred years ago had to spend so much time in the fields had to do with their lack of technology and mechanization. Science and technology can free man from mundane, robotic labor to produce life necessities.

In an ideal world, we would use that freed up time for other important "work" like education and innovation. Instead of spending so much time doing robotic, mundane jobs that a machine could do.

star and flag
most of the Work, in my opinion, serves today as the way to ocuppy and exhaust people, i dont imply its intentional, it doesnt matter so much, what does matter, is that when combined with consumption of various entertainments as a form of relaxation, there remains really tiny bit of space for proper evolution of society.

Originally posted by ATC_GOD
Ok so how the heck do you expect to get from where ever you live to Europe if no one works. Because if you dont have to work then no one should have to. Fact is this is the biggest bunch of pathetic whining I have heard since I stopped communicating with my X-wife.

If you dont like your hours....get another job. I am US military, and I cant count on my fingers and toes the number of countries I have visited......all because it is PART of my Job.

Fact is buddy, you made the choices you did, which landed you where you are now...in a job where the hours suck and you dont make enough to travel the world.

If we were meant to all live self sufficiently without work, in little communities then no one would travel anyway, because there would be no long distance means of travel.....

Anyway....my point is.....the world is what it is....the system is what it is....you are capable of changing your circumstance...BUT YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!

Amen! People have been working since the beginning of recorded history, and people used to work much harder to meet basic needs. Today, people in western societies have far beyond what basic needs are. You have a car, a mobile phone, running water a sewage, weekends and so much more you obviously take for granted, and if you live in the Western world you should be no where near starvation. Those starving are substance abusers, or insane. Period.

The people here complaining are simply that, whiny, lazy people who have no idea how to function in our modern society. They complain about how the want to go back to living in simpler ways, but would never in a million years give up their Blackberry or Facebook.

Of course our government has massive corruption and wastage, but to place on the blame on them for your own shortcoming is pathetic. I would like to see massive, sweeping changes in the way things are run, but communism is not the solution. Nor is socialism, which IMO has gotten us into this mess. In many Western countries you are better off on welfare (dole), than you are working a minimum wage job. This is wrong, and places much greater burden on those who actually want to work and acheive a measure of success with their lives.

I admire people like Bill Gates for the same reasons you despise him. He came from poverty and now is one of the richest men in the world. Just goes to show what ANYONE can accomplish in our western society. The opportunities are there for those willing to seize them.

Unsatisfied with your job? Get a new one! Unqualified for a better job? Work two lesser jobs, save up and educate yourself. It is in your power to do these things. Unsatisfied with your government? Form or join a lobby group with goals similar to your own. Hell, run for office! DO SOMTHING ABOUT IT!

The point is, no one is going to do it for you. Nor should anyone, especially the government do it for you. We are all responsible for our own happiness in this life at the end of the day.

Those who have given up and refuse to work because they say their are only feeding the rich are lazy sods who are trying desperately to justify their actions while at the same time being a tax burden on the working folk. Working people contribute to society as a whole, capable people who decide to leech off the welfare system are a drain and parasite on our economy. Who do you think im mad at?

Why has no one mentioned the number of hours worked? It's really not what you do, it's how long you have to do it. I'm sure a horrible, "unnatural" job a couple of hours a day is preferable to even natural work that is "fulltime" 8 hour days.

Who said 8 hour days is natural/normal? What if it was 10, would we just go with that number?

Maybe if we lived "naturally", growing food or something, the hours we worked would be natural. Difference is growing food, you can only work so much...there's a limit. Working at a desk, you can do a lot, and there is no productivity limit.

Originally posted by casinoed
So what if globalisation, the internet, access to more information with sites like ATS are enabling young people to challenge the status quo and question the perceived wisdom that, you gotta get a job and work hard until you can retire, blah, blah, blah...

I think it is also interesting to consider whether improved communications are making young people feel more like they are part of a global society than one that is restricted and defined by its historical borders.

I don't know if I'd be so optimistic. Young people seem to conform to the popular ideas on the internet more so than they do in life. People don't tend to use the internet to find and explore their own ideas, as much as they do to see what other people think. Few people probably actually research.

Young people are probably more impatient because of the internet. When you can whip around the internet fast and get everything you want....working long, slow, boring, low paying hours isn't going to be something some young people are going to want to do.

I sort of think if that is the case that young people feel more part of a "global society", it's going to mean we have less "leader" type individuals in our society. I think the "general" is starting to overcome the "particular" in that regard.

I don't think people should have to work to obtain basic needs, e.g., food, clothing, shelter. Imagine that all of your basic needs are met - what would you do? I think you would still "work", but you would do what it is that you LIKE to do.

I actually agree with you. Everyone, bar none, should be provided with the bare necessities at the very least.
And it is not at all as utopic as it may sound.

And of course, I agree with all those who pointed out that only work you do not enjoy may be "unnatural".
I adore working; I often find it more engrossing and entertaining than most parties, or watching TV
(even though it can be annyoing too - like everything in life).

"What if the markets go down", you ask?
My personal experience may not be of much help because I work for an industry that traditionally performs BEST when the economy is bad.
But that's beside the point.
I don't think it is necessary or profitable to dwell on "what if".
There will always be room for people doing their jobs well because they like doing what they do; and most people I know have more than one talent or passion.

Just find something you really feel happy or useful doing, and stop worrying.
Worrying will only get you in trouble, sooner or later.

I'm sure a horrible, "unnatural" job a couple of hours a day is preferable to even natural work that is "fulltime" 8 hour days.

I actually don't count the hours of work, but I am pretty sure I usually work considerably more than 8 or 10 hours a day.
Sometimes I have to pull myself from work, so I don't exhaust myself; or because it's almost dawn.

Becuse I am a workaholic?
Not at all. Simply because I love what I do.
It's not only entertaining (mostly or very often, not ALL the time), but it makes me grow every single day.

If I could find myself work like that, I am sure others can too.
And they should.

Work should be enjoyed. But work can only be enjoyed when both hemispheres of the brain are being used. When you are doing a repetitive act for 8 hours straight that means you are only using the left side of your brain and the right side is being neglected. Our brains are not meant to do that. That's why some of our jobs can feel "unnatural."

Again, science and technology can solve this problem. Mechanization can take over the repetitive jobs that require repetition and little to no creativity. Then our WORK will go towards education and innovation.

Of course, that type of human efficiency would require an entire social and economic paradigm shift. And we don't seem mature enough yet to make the transition. Gotta crawl before we walk I guess. Hopefully we survive the process.