Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

reply to post by PhantomLimb


You find another passion to profit from.

Everyone has to work, if you want to work in the "traditional sense" you need a good chunk of money to buy yourself land to grow crops and raise animals in a self sufficient manner. You will always need a bit of pocket money unfortunately so you would have to sell things you have made or grown on your property.

Perhaps you need to find a job with less hours even if it pays less that way you can go out and enjoy the city more often. If you live in a first world country STOP WHINING!

The way we live nowadays is un-natural, unless we stop popping out babies like rabbits it will only get worse.
The best thing we could do for humanity is to tell everyone to wear condoms and stop having kids at 16.

A very pertinent topic, and a good and courageous question. I wasn't able to look through all the replies, but there seems to be a general theme running in the suggestions:

1. Work on something you love.
2. We just have to work, we HAVE to. So gotta deal with it.
3. Work for yourself.

Well, your question actually is WHY do we have to work, and WHAT do we have to work on. In other words, the work which we have as employment or business or just being a housewife, is just a special case of the overarching concept of work, and effort. Work is required to bring about any change, and change is required if a possibility is seen where things are "better".

That means you have to identify what you consider worthy in this world, and what your notion of "better" is, THAT would be your work. That would involve questioning your motives, observing things around which you see as worthy motives...the identification itself would be work. And then seeing how your present line of day-to-day work accomplishes that (or not) would be the next. As they say, if you work, you can climb the ladder, only question is, which ladder is worth climbing?

I would just like to add another option:

4. Work on yourself.

In the old days, alchemists considered the world a way to work on themselves, and called it the Magnum Opus, or the Great Work. So in their view, the work outside is an opportunity to work inside. Well, maybe they had a point.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I totaly agree with you. Ok. as far as jobs go, I have it pretty sweet. I'm a graphics designer 9 to 5 type thing week-ends off. But before I had this job I did everything from sewing to landscaping. Yes, sewing...shut-up And eversince I started working I always thought "why not go out and live in the woods, hunt and fish for food..you know like the good ol' days." Ends up it's illegal. You live on the land you MUST pay taxes. You need to pay taxes, you need a job. It's all part of the slave state our world is in. None are so enslaved than those who think that they are free. is a paraphrase from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe a super genious from late16th to early 17th century Germany. Funny that this applies today as it did back then.

reply to post by XLR8R


There is nothing wrong with sewing.. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH SELLING COFFEE FOR $6 a cup.
Think about it. Sewing you clothed people... WHAT THE HELL DOES A $6 cup of coffee do?

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by lowki

 

I started scanning this thread and your perspective came into my mind right away and then I read your post. I've heard the term you describe before, but I heard it described as 'waged bondage'. I'm in the UK - the average citizen's salary runs out 8 days before the nexy paycheque is due. In 'affluent' Switzerland the cheque runs out about 5 days before the next pay day.

Even though I make less than half what the average Canadian makes,
I still put away 40-60% of my paycheck (after-rent) as savings to get a boat and sail-away.
I convert much of it to silver bullion so that even if hyper-inflation hits, can still hold onto savings.

Sure usually money runs out half way through the month, or 15 days before the next pay-check,
fortunately with a combination of magic-spells (prayer-writings), peoples generosity and foraging I get stuff throughout the remained of the month.
Buying only fresh produce and whole-grains can significantly reduce food costs.

It's been designed that way quite intentionally. I can now go out and buy a DVD player for a tenner

I don't even think of buying something that I don't deem would contribute to our future life living sustainable lives afloat.

- but it costs almost a month's salary to pay for my quarterly domestic fuel bills. Then there's petrol,

I take public transit

the mortgage, the housing tax (council tax here)

using magic I got subsidized housing.

, the VAT (sales tax) now 20% in the UK,

ya, in Canada it is 14 or 15%,
though I find online purchases seem exempt.

childcare costs (both parents now have to work to pay for the crazy house prices - I'm not sure that's what women's lib really had in mind when they advocated choice),

my partner's passion is child-care and she's currently getting certified for it.
fortunately due to my magically acquired stable income,
I can stay home all day, looking after our bunnies and kitties,
though I also do get out and do guerrilla gardening and tribal advocacy.

At home I mainly learn skills and work on various projects to help with our sail-away.
For instance I've made some model concrete boats, a book-case, pottery and such,
learned many various knots, lashings, survival-ism, plant-care, persuasion, planning.

Remember money is simply here to persuade people to give or do something for you.
Magic or prayer is a way of persuading the world or spirit-entities to help make something happen.

food, clothing for work and then whatever's, if anything, can contribute to quality of life.

Usually I get my clothing by casting magic spells,
though I do buy some on a rare occasion.

Crazily enough, we do this to ourselves by mass concensus. If we refused to play we could stop this sick game in ooooh about 18 days.

there is a lot of momentum in the system,
many people will continue going to work,
even if they aren't getting paid at all,
as demonstrated in the soviet union,
after the collapse.
It's force of habit.

I like the sound of 'intentional communities'. It appeals to me on a very human level.
It's all well and good being a participant in the 'rat race' - but we're NOT rats.

For sure dunbar's number says we function best in fairly small communities up to 200 people or so.

Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. These are relationships in which an individual knows who each person is, and how each person relates to every other person.
Proponents assert that numbers larger than this generally require more restrictive rules, laws, and enforced norms to maintain a stable, cohesive group. No precise value has been proposed for Dunbar's number. It has been proposed to lie between 100 and 230, with a commonly used value of 150.
en.wikipedia.org...

As for intentional communities,
here is a listing from ic.org of intentional-communities around the world by geographic location:
directory.ic.org...
In United Kingdom there are 101 registered communities.

Work isn't unnatural, as many have pointed out. Today's society is highly unnatural. Our very existence is centered around struggles, things which require work and effort in order to accomplish something. Our mother struggles to bring us into the world. At the end of our life there is a struggle between life and death. In between all that, life is filled with struggles. As an animal, primitive Homo sapiens struggled in primal ways, as you pointed out. There was never an obligation to society, it was simply the natural order that to survive, you had to be able to find food and shelter.

Society is in disarray. Anyone with half a brain knows this. Is anybody doing anything about it? No. Nobody knows how to fix society. I have an idea, but it's impossible to implement. This is where the conspiracy aspect comes into play. Governments exist solely for controlling people. Why else would a group of people assemble for the purpose of dictating what people are allowed to do or not do? They have crafted this intricate society of wickedness that is getting worse literally every single day. The things you talk about, the unnatural feeling in "work", it's your instincts telling you that something is wrong. A human being should never be enslaved, and that's what this society has done: enslaved us. Sure, we're allowed many "freedoms" in our homes and such, but the real matter here is the system and how it keeps us coming back to the master's feet, doing whatever he asks us, so that we can have that societal security.

I have a little advice. It involves two potential options. First: find a job that doesn't suck your entire life away, which means you will probably have very little money in your pocket, but you will hopefully be a lot happier with the time you have. OR Second: break off from society. Go live in the wilderness, join the Amish, become a monk, whatever you can come up with to abandon society to live your life with personal freedom. The only other thing you can do is strive to become a millionaire, which requires many, many hours of "work".

I've been reading a lot of responses saying, "if we don't work, we won't have food, shelter, electricity, etc."

A very small portion of our labor as a whole goes towards these life necessities. The majority of our labor goes to filling the pockets of the CEOs and upper management of corporations and supporting our over consumption of a bunch of products we don't need.

Until we can give up our addiction to materialism, this process will continue. The rich will keep getting richer and the struggling will continue to struggle. Social mobility will come to a stand still if it hasn't already.

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth


I hear you Loki. I was just poking fun at myself. You are so right about the coffee thing. As long as people will continue to dish out stupid amounts of cash for the pure arabica or the I Pod made from Child Labor or what ever the product may be we will always be moneys b@#$%ch.

Originally posted by Reflection
Until we can give up our addiction to materialism, this process will continue. The rich will keep getting richer and the struggling will continue to struggle. Social mobility will come to a stand still if it hasn't already.

This is the root of all the problems that we face.

We expect to have the best with the least amount of work. How's that possible with standard jobs? We have to work harder and harder to gain those things.

If we actually just worked for the basics than we wouldn't have to face all those problems. And when i say basics i mean just food, shelter, water, gas and electric.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I just turned 18 a few weeks ago and i have decided (Not to get out of work and paying taxs) that i will get a backpack, a tent and everything else i need and just travel around freely where i will feel as if i am free and not a robot.. dont get me wrong i finished school with good enough grades and i am in second year of college but there was something my dad said to me that made me think hard about work.. he works from 8AM till 9PM driving a lorry around the country and we were having a talk about things and he said about working and he told me he never has time to see his friends anymore because all he can do is work otherwise he cant support his children, he is 60 and i see him once every year and only for two days on christmas and then he has to leave to go to work again.. That isnt the way i want to live my life full of work, i have seen it happen, he is like a robot with commands and he goes along each day with no time for anything but sleep, eat, work and drive.. That is not the way we should be living, and people say im lazy because i dont want to work?!.. its just a shame we all live life like that, i spent life in eduacation and it takes your childhood.

I don't think people should have to work to obtain basic needs, e.g., food, clothing, shelter. Imagine that all of your basic needs are met - what would you do? I think you would still "work", but you would do what it is that you LIKE to do.

I'm currently 25, going on 50 through the daily grind of getting up in the morning to the sound of an alarm that I want to blow up, getting dressed in clothing I hate, eating a breakfast that is quickly and carelessly cooked (if ever), getting in my car and driving amongsts others in the same poor mood and hopefully making it on time to work. My job is great as well, as far as pay and happiness standards can be at work. Alas, I still feel like Winston Smith walking the halls of the Ministry of Truth. Never being able to speak my mind without repercussions or act as I would normally, or even ever tell a cute coworker how much I would like to get busy with her (sorry, not sexist, just a normal virile male who feels that it's natural to find a beautiful coworker desireable). It is refreshing to hear from younger, yes even by a year, generations that there are others who notice that this grind is soul-killing. If you could for one moment daydream of the deterioration of our society due to cataclysm or way, when the grind becomes impossible but pure savage living comes back, would we miss this? Would we for one second look back and miss travelling on a freeway in a rush? If our "civilized" way of lives and work were displaced and we were forced back to a more tribal, disconnected through internet and cell phone lifestyle, where no television told you the "truth" and all that you knew of was the land on your horizons, would you at all miss this outsourced living? Living vicariously through celebrities, in envy of their ability to use their 40 hours a week to travel the world at their luxury is what we do as we watch the TV.

Originally posted by Joshsetafire
I'm currently 25, going on 50 through the daily grind of getting up in the morning to the sound of an alarm that I want to blow up, getting dressed in clothing I hate, eating a breakfast that is quickly and carelessly cooked (if ever), getting in my car and driving amongsts others in the same poor mood and hopefully making it on time to work. My job is great as well, as far as pay and happiness standards can be at work. Alas, I still feel like Winston Smith walking the halls of the Ministry of Truth. Never being able to speak my mind without repercussions or act as I would normally, or even ever tell a cute coworker how much I would like to get busy with her (sorry, not sexist, just a normal virile male who feels that it's natural to find a beautiful coworker desireable). It is refreshing to hear from younger, yes even by a year, generations that there are others who notice that this grind is soul-killing. If you could for one moment daydream of the deterioration of our society due to cataclysm or way, when the grind becomes impossible but pure savage living comes back, would we miss this? Would we for one second look back and miss travelling on a freeway in a rush? If our "civilized" way of lives and work were displaced and we were forced back to a more tribal, disconnected through internet and cell phone lifestyle, where no television told you the "truth" and all that you knew of was the land on your horizons, would you at all miss this outsourced living? Living vicariously through celebrities, in envy of their ability to use their 40 hours a week to travel the world at their luxury is what we do as we watch the TV.

NICE!

The things you own end up owning you.

Would I trade this #e all fake existence for a simple "savage" life? SURE WILL plan to next year regardless of end of the world or not. I AM OUT OF THIS, its killing me, any soul I had left after my 20's is dying even quicker.
BY THE DAY!

The best part to me, about a catastrophic event? THE FEEDERS AND USELESS FRACKS DIE! All those dumb arse inner-city gang bangers will starve, all those yuppies who have never seen a cow in real life.. dead.. all the greedy egoic bastards who got us into this mess, that have made BILLIONS off our families hard work and blood.. well they are worthless.

World War Z: a book about a zombie end of the world said something I love and I do not have the quote but more or less:

All the bankers and lawyers, the tax men and sales reps got used as bait for the zombies as fodder and soon had to do nothing but basic farming as their other "skills" are useless. SO TRUE!

I don't care who you are or how much you think you are worth.. unless you can build shelter, hunt/farm food YOU ARE USELESS! If you cannot feed yourself YOU ARE USELESS and in that uselessness think about all the people waiting for "food stamps" the "Sit-Around-The-Forts" as my ancestors called them. Waiting for a handout of food, not knowing how to survive, feed and sometimes even how to cloth themselves. They forgot how to hunt, they became drunks and fell away from the land and Great Spirit. I digress.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I feel the same way. We should all just share everything. Isn't that what parents teach their kids? SHARE

This guy just nails it:

reply to post by SecretSky


Yeah I know what that mental block is like. it used to happen to me in school. People would think I'm lazy...but it's more that I just didn't care or I was insanely bored.

We weren't meant to live like this...I just know it deep inside my inner being. We were meant to be out in nature...think about this, if you never went outside you'd get sick from lack of vitamin D from the sun. I think it's obvious that we were designed to be outside...not sitting behind desks or working in stores or in an office..but outside doing physical labor.

reply to post by GeminiSky

Sorry to interupt, I am new to this.
What you say about work I believe to be true. We are but slaves to the corperate interests. I believe money, especially debt, to be the tool of enslavement. Wouldn't it be nice if communities came together to grow and trade their own food, perhaps trade their own manufactured goods. No money, no debt, no slavery. Money tuely is the root of all evil. Imagine a world without it where everything was free, including your time.
Sorry If I have over stepped the mark or done something wrong, this is my first reply.

Originally posted by Loki Lyesmyth
reply to post by XLR8R

 

There is nothing wrong with sewing.. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH SELLING COFFEE FOR $6 a cup.
Think about it. Sewing you clothed people... WHAT THE HELL DOES A $6 cup of coffee do?

Nothing at all wrong with selling a $6 cup of coffee.

No one is forcing you to buy this coffee. If you dont want to pay that much, go to a lower end coffee place and buy a $1 cup. I dont see a problem. If i want to buy a $6 cup of coffee why cant i?

reply to post by flameoffire


I know your post wasn't directed at me but I want to respond anyways.

I have to ask, do you really want to go back in time to the age where man hunted, fought to defend his plot, and built his own shelter?

Have you ever been hunting before? It's pretty exciting, and the first kill is always the best. And no one ever said we had to go back to bows and arrows. Also I don't think anyone would have to 'defend' their plot these days.... and building your own shelter could be fun. I've built a lean-to once on the Appalachian trail. And it only took an hour....slept under the stars with a fire next to me to keep warm.

If you did not work, how would you afford things like, electricity, cable, phone, internet, a car? How would you afford health insurance? How would you pay for things like glasses or dentist visits?

Don't need electricity, cable, phone, internet or a car to survive. Health insurance & dentists? It's called eating real food. Not man made garbage. And back then people didn't need eye doctors...they weren't sitting in front of computers all day screwing up their eyes. These days we screen kids at early ages for myopia when 99% of these cases could be fixed by taking away books that make them stress their eyes constantly.

All the stuff you've been taught that is vital to your survival really isn't. Only if you're living in the system.

And hunting only accounts for a small portion of human nutritional needs. Are you also willing to plant and farm, tend flocks, grow your food, etc

Actually you can get 100% of your daily vitamin needs from animals. Research 'Inuit Tribe'. And who says you have to actually go old school hunting for food...ever heard of cattle?

What you are suggesting is actually more work, than just going to a 9-5, or a 9-9 in your case, and then collecting a paycheck.

You call 9-5 corporate/store job work? I call that hell. I'd rather be out in the sun plowin some fields or adding to my shelter. Reap what you sow.

I think you have become complacent and forgot about all the luxuries we have been afforded, by the progression of technology and the ability to buy and pay for these new commodities.

Luxuries? Who need 'em. I'd gladly trade my '97 Ford Explorer for a stout horse.

I personally prefer to not go back to the olden days. I enjoy being able to watch tv, get online, go to the doctor when I need to, get in my car and drive, etc.

Good for you. Some of us are not truly happy with material possessions...

Either way, you are going to work. Whether it be in the field and with the flocks, or in the office or workplace. God created man to work.

That he did! And good point on the work thing...but I'd rather be in the field or with the flocks...I guess it comes down to preference...

He said that by the sweat of man's brow you will eat. He said that a man who does not work, does not eat.

You don't sweat much sitting in an air conditioned room all day.

yes. working itself is not unnatural. working your whole life away is. i am one of the many people in the usa that work just to keep working. making enough just to get to the next month and just enough to keep me working. it is slavery, and if anyone can't see that they are blind or they don't have to work for a living.