Beijing warns US on Taiwan arms

Time for the wake-up call! First of all, don't even attempt to compare a war with China to our campaign in Iraq. There is NO comparison. We have every intention of rebuilding Iraq. You attack us and we will show no mercy and won't try to rebuild you... ergo, we'll blow your sh*t to pieces, mercilessly!

Drop your Pro-China military propaganda! Yeah, yeah, China's doing well... at least better than before, but I can think of about a dozen nations that could destroy you with their military technology alone, and rest assured, the USofA is right at the very tippy-top of that list. Look, we don';t want a war with you, we don't want to have to fight with you guys so just stay the hell out of Taiwan and you'll be fine. They're not at all interested in joining your bass-ackwards communism. They're doing just fine by themselves thank you, and they like it that way.

So just drop the whole thing. Yes, we realize that you got a few nukes. Big deal! You're like the kid down the street who just got a new BB gun and all of the sudden he thinks he's Rambo. Just calm down. We wouldn't have to fire 1 single nuke to send you guys back to the stone age and your government knows it. Period. End of story. Drop it!

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Fortunately, they were my Chinese friends and they let me know about the problem they faced, that is why i was aware of this fact. I mentioned that they came to see us, not to use the bathroom, the security guards did not even notify this to us. Foreign journalists might have been the reason why these Chinese were denied access. It happens to a lot of people i know, not just us. Anywhere there is the media, there bounds to be some sort of wall blocking.

[edit on 30-8-2004 by jazzmaster]

If they came to see you, why did not you arrange the meeting in a pub or any restaurant? With this, I have some doubts whether you deliberately make this up.

Because it was not even a meeting, just an informal greeting. I've said before, they are my friends. They have the right to knock on my door and say hi if they wanted to. Chinese are very friendly once friendship is established, I am sure you know of this. And you must know that Chinese come up to your door without letting you know in advance. Im sure you also know about this. Besides, who has a meeting in a hotel room?
This post is not that important to my life as you are trying to defend your country to make things up. That is very low of you

[edit on 30-8-2004 by jazzmaster]

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Those fighting are not Iraqis, they are militants recuited from around the region, noticeably Iran and Saudis. The Iraqis are not even fighting.

You are kiding yourself. Not only adult Iraqi people fighting US, but also teenages are defending their country.

You out such comments. You are sure blind with your eyes.

Could any of these listed above have the ability to detect an F-117, or B-2 and shoot it down? I think not

You sure think the downing of F-117 in Kosovo was just luck. Even if B-2 can not be detected, how many B-2 US has, and how many targets it can destroy for a country like China? B-2 might be invincible for country like North Korea, but I have doubt for country like China or Russia. We will never know until B-2 or F-117 is over Chinese air space. Just do not be so sure.

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Because it was not even a meeting, just an informal greeting. I've said before, they are my friends. They have the right to knock on my door and say hi if they wanted to. Chinese are very friendly once friendship is established, I am sure you know of this. And you must know that Chinese come up to your door without letting you know in advance. Im sure you also know about this. Besides, who has a meeting in a hotel room?
This post is not that important to my life as you are trying to defend your country to make things up. That is very low of you

You can tell the guards that your friends are coming to see you. Or your friends can tell the guards that they want to see you. The guard will usually verify with you and allow them in.

As I explained above, hotel may not allow everyone in. I just refuting your false accusation or impression of China.

Originally posted by kozmo
Time for the wake-up call! First of all, don't even attempt to compare a war with China to our campaign in Iraq. There is NO comparison.

Of course. US was invading and is occupying Iraq. All people are against US invasion of Iraq. Do you know the demonstration in New York yesterday?

For China on Taiwan, it will be the continuation of an unfinished civil war, reunification war. It will be supported by almost all Chinese people.

Drop your Pro-China military propaganda! Yeah, yeah, China's doing well... at least better than before, but I can think of about a dozen nations that could destroy you with their military technology alone, and rest assured, the USofA is right at the very tippy-top of that list. Look, we don';t want a war with you, we don't want to have to fight with you guys so just stay the hell out of Taiwan and you'll be fine. They're not at all interested in joining your bass-ackwards communism. They're doing just fine by themselves thank you, and they like it that way.

No one ask Taiwan to join communism, they can continue their current insititutions, millitary etc, and way of life. Is Hong Kong now communism?

US should not mess in Taiwan. Unless US want an all-out war with China.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Those fighting are not Iraqis, they are militants recuited from around the region, noticeably Iran and Saudis. The Iraqis are not even fighting.

You are kiding yourself. Not only adult Iraqi people fighting US, but also teenages are defending their country.

You out such comments. You are sure blind with your eyes.

Could any of these listed above have the ability to detect an F-117, or B-2 and shoot it down? I think not

You sure think the downing of F-117 in Kosovo was just luck. Even if B-2 can not be detected, how many B-2 US has, and how many targets it can destroy for a country like China? B-2 might be invincible for country like North Korea, but I have doubt for country like China or Russia. We will never know until B-2 or F-117 is over Chinese air space. Just do not be so sure.

abcnews.go.com...

Read this article and find out.

Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef has acknowledged for the first time that Saudi militants may have gone to neighboring Iraq to fight against the U.S.-led occupation force.

I am sure a lot of Mid-East countries are involved in this fight after the US helped Israel to become a country. If you think I am blind with my eyes, then you must be deaf with your ears then, Mr. Zcheng.


If you consider civilian targets as striking targets, the no, we may not have enough planes to bomb them. But the US does not bomb civilian targets, we strike military targets instead.
I am sure our F-117, and B-2 forces can bomb out all of your airbases (36 airbases).
The thing is, all of your air defense (air guns, SAMS) concentrates directly to Taiwan, leaving the rest of the country vunerable. A lot of jet fighters in those airbases will be destroyed easily.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Because it was not even a meeting, just an informal greeting. I've said before, they are my friends. They have the right to knock on my door and say hi if they wanted to. Chinese are very friendly once friendship is established, I am sure you know of this. And you must know that Chinese come up to your door without letting you know in advance. Im sure you also know about this. Besides, who has a meeting in a hotel room?
This post is not that important to my life as you are trying to defend your country to make things up. That is very low of you

You can tell the guards that your friends are coming to see you. Or your friends can tell the guards that they want to see you. The guard will usually verify with you and allow them in.

As I explained above, hotel may not allow everyone in. I just refuting your false accusation or impression of China.

As i said before, they came without a call in advance, how could us have known they were coming? Then they told me the hotel guards (the hotel shall remained nameless) would not notify us.
Anyway that already happened and it already left an impresson on me.
However, this is none related to this threat of Taiwan and China. Get back to the debating of the main purpose of this post. We are getting off track here

Why so much China Vs USA war talk when there will NEVER be a war between the two? Neither of them have enough money anyways.

Originally posted by Wask
Why so much China Vs USA war talk when there will NEVER be a war between the two? Neither of them have enough money anyways.

Well i tell you what. We are getting carried over by some of our military experts in this post and website

Originally posted by jazzmaster

Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef has acknowledged for the first time that Saudi militants may have gone to neighboring Iraq to fight against the U.S.-led occupation force.

I am sure a lot of Mid-East countries are involved in this fight after the US helped Israel to become a country. If you think I am blind with my eyes, then you must be deaf with your ears then, Mr. Zcheng.

Yes, You are blind. He said Saudi millitants may have gone to Iraq. Does that mean all fighter are all from neighboring countries? In fact, it is most ordinary Iraqi people do the fighting.

The thing is, all of your air defense (air guns, SAMS) concentrates directly to Taiwan, leaving the rest of the country vunerable. A lot of jet fighters in those airbases will be destroyed easily.

If that is true, why do not you try? I think you better try North Korea first, before testing China.

Originally posted by Wask
Why so much China Vs USA war talk when there will NEVER be a war between the two? Neither of them have enough money anyways.

If US insists its meddling in Taiwan Strait affairs, I see the inevitability of the two Giant colliding, and doom for both US and China.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by fawlty
Who said anything about going nuclear? You are the only one eager to use nuclear weapons in response to a conventional war. Chinese leaders want Taiwan so that they can milk it for profit....they wont go nuclear because then it is all over for China. Unlike you, Chinese leaders use a little more rational thought. There wont be a nuclear conflict over a tiny little island off of China. If there is a conflict, it will stay conventional and China will lose sorely. If China ever wants to cease as a country then they can play with their WMD's. Chinese as a race would cease to exist. The American population would kill all chinese in retribution for nuking american cities. China itself would be a deadzone for centuries...nothing would survive there. Chinese everywhere would be massacred...it would be genocide...and rightfully so.

Did not you ever read the statement by the highest leaders of China on Taiwan? Taiwan is the core interest of China. Nuke or not, All options are on the table to defeat any foreign intervention. In nuke war, both US and China will destroyed. Due to the geographical difference between US and China, I believe China will survive such war, but not for US.

Just do not think you can nuke China, while keep US intact.

You suck at propaganda Zcheng. Nothing you say is even remotely believable and I pointed that out in my previous post. Only thing you can say is China has some nukes. You dont even consider that using nuclear weapons against the U.S. would spell doom for your country and your people. Luckily you are in no position of power and just one of the many brainwashed masses.

Sure. Luckily, even Bush is also wiser to know the severe conquences in war with China.

You think China would survive a nuclear confrontation but the U.S. would not. What kind of geographical difference points you to that conclusion? Is it one of those "geographical maps" you get when you join the communist party? They have the U.S. the size of England or something? Currently you do not have enough nuclear weapons to pave the U.S., however, we have enough to turn every square inch of your country into glass. Let me say again for you....if China ever launched nuclear missiles at the U.S., your country and people would cease to exist. You would not be able to put together a large enough breeding population of Chinese from all of the continents. There would be no internment camps for you.

We have been and still are selling Taiwan advanced weapons despite your propaganda. It just isnt working Zcheng. We are doing what we want and you cant and wont do anything about it.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by jazzmaster

Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef has acknowledged for the first time that Saudi militants may have gone to neighboring Iraq to fight against the U.S.-led occupation force.

I am sure a lot of Mid-East countries are involved in this fight after the US helped Israel to become a country. If you think I am blind with my eyes, then you must be deaf with your ears then, Mr. Zcheng.

Yes, You are blind. He said Saudi millitants may have gone to Iraq. Does that mean all fighter are all from neighboring countries? In fact, it is most ordinary Iraqi people do the fighting.

The thing is, all of your air defense (air guns, SAMS) concentrates directly to Taiwan, leaving the rest of the country vunerable. A lot of jet fighters in those airbases will be destroyed easily.

If that is true, why do not you try? I think you better try North Korea first, before testing China.

Would prefer if you stop with the insults

Please read the whole article before you say anything

Iraq was expected to raise the subject of infiltration at a gathering of foreign ministers of countries neighboring Iraq that will be held July 21 in Cairo, Egypt. Besides the Saudis, Iraq has said it has in custody 26 Syrians, 14 Iranians, 12 Egyptians, nine Sudanese, five Palestinians, five Yemenis, five Jordanians, five Tunisians, a Lebanese, a Moroccan, a Turk and an Afghan.

These numbers are just miminal, there are a lot more out there that successfully entered Iraq because Iran refused to close its border. Iran also supplied the militants with weapons to fight. They supplied weapons to the fighter in the shrine in which the stand-off happened a week ago. Those countries are more than happy to help these extremist Muslim fighters to kill Americans. Hey they are threatening to behead a French guy right now. It is just not Americans these Muslims are trained to kill, it is the Westerners.

If that is true, why do not you try? I think you better try North Korea first, before testing China.

No one wants war right now, the US is "peacefully" supplying arms to Taiwan, nothing more, just like China supplying techs to North Korea, Iraq, and a few other countries. Plus i do not have the authority to command our forces. It's useless you are trying make dare me into doing this. I ask you, Taiwan is still weak right now, why does China not invade it right now before it totaly arms itself and become less depedent on the US?

[edit on 30-8-2004 by jazzmaster]

Originally posted by fawlty
You think China would survive a nuclear confrontation but the U.S. would not. What kind of geographical difference points you to that conclusion? Is it one of those "geographical maps" you get when you join the communist party? They have the U.S. the size of England or something? Currently you do not have enough nuclear weapons to pave the U.S., however, we have enough to turn every square inch of your country into glass. Let me say again for you....if China ever launched nuclear missiles at the U.S., your country and people would cease to exist. You would not be able to put together a large enough breeding population of Chinese from all of the continents. There would be no internment camps for you.

We have been and still are selling Taiwan advanced weapons despite your propaganda. It just isnt working Zcheng. We are doing what we want and you cant and wont do anything about it.

I said China will have a better chance to survive due the numberous mountain ranges in China. You can see that in any map.

I know the capability of US, and I know the capability of China. So I am warning on the consequences of wars between two Giants. Only when you know the severe consequences, will you caution in attacking China.

Yes, US is still selling "defensive" weapons to Taiwan. China is swallowing the bitter pill now, and buy some more time to develop more stronger economy and more powerful weapon. But China will never allow Taiwan go Independent. Now China is in preparation for the eventual unification, and will defeat any intervention from any force.

Originally posted by jazzmaster

Iraq was expected to raise the subject of infiltration at a gathering of foreign ministers of countries neighboring Iraq that will be held July 21 in Cairo, Egypt. Besides the Saudis, Iraq has said it has in custody 26 Syrians, 14 Iranians, 12 Egyptians, nine Sudanese, five Palestinians, five Yemenis, five Jordanians, five Tunisians, a Lebanese, a Moroccan, a Turk and an Afghan.

These numbers are just miminal, there are a lot more out there that successfully entered Iraq because Iran refused to close its border. Iran also supplied the militants with weapons to fight. They supplied weapons to the fighter in the shrine in which the stand-off happened a week ago. Those countries are more than happy to help these extremist Muslim fighters to kill Americans. Hey they are threatening to behead a French guy right now. It is just not Americans these Muslims are trained to kill, it is the Westerners.

Does it say how many Iraqi people are in custody? Who knows who is holding the French guys? I think Al-CIAda is more likely to punish French.

No one wants war right now, the US is "peacefully" supplying arms to Taiwan, nothing more, just like China supplying techs to North Korea, Iraq, and a few other countries. Plus i do not have the authority to command our forces. It's useless you are trying make dare me into doing this. I ask you, Taiwan is still weak right now, why does China not invade it right now before it totaly arms itself and become less depedent on the US?

China want to reduce the destruction to minimal to both Taiwan and Mainland. China need more time to develop economy, and more advanced weapons to deter US intervention in Taiwan. Without US support, Taiwan will not dare to seek Independence, thus avoiding Chinese attacking Chinese, the ultimate tragedy for Chinese.

I've read most of the posts on this thread, and I must say that they are filled with misinformation. Just to clear up a few things:

China does in fact have a legitimate claim to Taiwan, going back over 300 years, which was forcefully interrupted by the Japanese then reclaimed by China after the end of WWII.

China has no issue with Taiwan's semi-independence, it does however take exception to it trying to secede. I believe the U.S can relate to the fight to keep its union whole.

The U.S has no authority with which to intervene in the affairs between China and Taiwan since the true diplomatic ties are with China the nation, one China, with teh obligation being to Beijing. As well, there is no defense of Taiwan allegiance. Fact is, the U.S is involved for one reason and one reason only in my opinion; a sovereign Taiwan would allow diplomatic arrangements with the U.S and easier military access to Asia Pacific.

Finally, economic embargo would be futile. China holds anywhere between one quarter to one half of the U.S treasury's debt.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
I've read most of the posts on this thread, and I must say that they are filled with misinformation. Just to clear up a few things.

Great summary of facts. The problem is people like FredT, jazzmaster, fawlty, kozmo, westpoint23 will never accept or acknowledge above points, let alone TI member like ludahai.

Originally posted by zcheng
Yes, US is still selling "defensive" weapons to Taiwan. China is swallowing the bitter pill now, and buy some more time to develop more stronger economy and more powerful weapon. But China will never allow Taiwan go Independent. Now China is in preparation for the eventual unification, and will defeat any intervention from any force.

Any intervention? From any force? I understand your patriotism man, but come now - you won't defeat an intervention from the US. The very BEST you could hope for would be MAD. And even in that case you don't win because the US has many times the number of nukes.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by zcheng
Yes, US is still selling "defensive" weapons to Taiwan. China is swallowing the bitter pill now, and buy some more time to develop more stronger economy and more powerful weapon. But China will never allow Taiwan go Independent. Now China is in preparation for the eventual unification, and will defeat any intervention from any force.

Any intervention? From any force? I understand your patriotism man, but come now - you won't defeat an intervention from the US. The very BEST you could hope for would be MAD. And even in that case you don't win because the US has many times the number of nukes.

I for one am curious to know how it is the U.S will go about defeating China by force relative to Taiwan, and further, how the U.S will pull this off while supporting Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a sound strategy.

China does in fact have a legitimate claim to Taiwan, going back over 300 years, which was forcefully interrupted by the Japanese then reclaimed by China after the end of WWII.

I do not have much knowledge about Taiwan's history, so I am going to leave this one open to ludahail

China has no issue with Taiwan's semi-independence, it does however take exception to it trying to secede. I believe the U.S can relate to the fight to keep its union whole.

What semi-independence? of China allowing Taiwan to have a military force, an independent economy, and its own democratic government? More of like China cannot stop the process taking place right now. China takes every chance it has to dismiss Taiwan. At the Olympic, Taiwanese athletes were called Chinese Taipei. China cannot stand Taiwan doing what it wants to do right now, it's more like China has no control over the situation.

The U.S has no authority with which to intervene in the affairs between China and Taiwan since the true diplomatic ties are with China the nation, one China, with teh obligation being to Beijing. As well, there is no defense of Taiwan allegiance. Fact is, the U.S is involved for one reason and one reason only in my opinion; a sovereign Taiwan would allow diplomatic arrangements with the U.S and easier military access to Asia Pacific.

The US has been involved with Taiwan's internal affairs since the 50s, when Taiwan was trying to establish itself. The US helped Taiwan to become a democratic country. This policy has been established since the Cold War, in which the US will help any country that wants to become democratic. I believe the Domino Theory justified this policy. Not only now the US is supporting Taiwan, it has been doing this since the 50s. The US is a world police. And I've said this before, the US wants to support Taiwan because Taiwan is a sweet piece of pie. Hey the US is actually benefiting from this right now. Right, its location in the Pacific makes Taiwan a perfect military strongold for the US in Asia.

Finally, economic embargo would be futile. China holds anywhere between one quarter to one half of the U.S treasury's debt.

I am not familiar with this figure, give me sometime to dig this up. Or better yet, please provide me a link to it..

Great summary of facts. The problem is people like FredT, jazzmaster, fawlty, kozmo, westpoint23 will never accept or acknowledge above points, let alone TI member like ludahai.

And what facts am i trying to dismiss? The United States cannot allow Taiwan to be invaded and its future determined in Beijing without the population of Taiwan agreeing. Taiwan has followed the model of American democracy and American cannot betray or abandoned Taiwan and remain a leader in the world or a nation with credibility in East Asia.