Beijing warns US on Taiwan arms

check the bbc out for more infobbc "The US is on the verge of a deal to sell billions of dollars of new weaponry to Taiwan, and Beijing is determined to do all it can to stop it, our correspondent says." is the us starting an uprising so thay can defete the north ?



[edit on 10-7-2004 by leejones]

I don't think so. The reason is, we could become involved in China vs Taiwan and at the same time as N Korea. Don't think China isn't aware fighting 3 wars at once and winning is not possible, even for the US. This is getting sticky quickly.

unless we deploy our secret weapons lol

The Straits Times, Jun 19th 2004:
BEIJING - Pro-independence supporters in Taiwan could resort to terrorist tactics to split the island from mainland China, Chinese state media charged yesterday.

The United States was also accused of 'instigating Taipei to engage in terrorism to hurt China's core national interests'.

'It is shameless for the US, which has been urging a global anti-terrorism campaign, to encourage Taipei to promote terrorism.' -- AFP, Reuters.

straitstimes.asia1.com...

So it appears to the Chinese that America are aiding 'terrorists.'
This combined with independant reports proving insufficient reason to strike pre-emptively at a seemingly defenceless target is not good 'propaganda'.

Guardian, UK, July 10th 2004:
The principal claims justifying the invasion of Iraq - that Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons and was developing nuclear weapons - were fundamentally wrong and the result of a "global intelligence failure", a Senate investigation concluded yesterday.

www.guardian.co.uk...

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This could be all the reason they need in order to 'liberate' Taiwan.

Taiwan is part of China. This is an ironic fact recognized internationally. Matter related to Taiwan should be Chinese internal affairs. Any external interference or intervention to Taiwan affairs is inappropriate and will post serious threat to Chinese people.

We believe that Taiwan will be re-unified with Mainland China through peaceful resolution. Any independent movement supported by foreign powers will be seen as starting a full-scale war against all Chinese. America, far away from the other side of the Pacific, will not be so lucky this time to avoid casualty. Japan has hurt Chinese that much in the past and revenge in a war is a very natural human behavior.

www.index-china.com...

The Australian, July 08, 2004:
CHINESE soldiers will for the first time practise a D-Day style invasion of Taiwan on a densely populated island off the mainland coast this month.

The 18,000-man mock landing on the beaches of Dongshan Island is to involve amphibious assault craft, Russian-built fighter jets and submarines operating in the Taiwan Strait to ward off a simulated counter-attack by the US Seventh Fleet.

www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

Doesn't look good.

"God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." —George W. Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004

[Eyes roll back in head, finger on THE button]

"Tell me when Lord, tell me when. Let me be your servant Lord."
Bill Hicks, Revelations, 1993

World go BOOM!

[edit on 10-7-2004 by shanti23]

Sabre rattling. Period. The US should sell Arleigh Burke destryers to Taiwan period. We should open up the pentagon like a WallMart and let Taiwan come shopping for defensive weapons.

Originally posted by FredT
Sabre rattling. Period. The US should sell Arleigh Burke destryers to Taiwan period. We should open up the pentagon like a WallMart and let Taiwan come shopping for defensive weapons.

Actually I like that. Eventually those advanced weapons will be part of PLA. My only concern is that US only want the money, but not deliver the goods.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by FredT
Sabre rattling. Period. The US should sell Arleigh Burke destryers to Taiwan period. We should open up the pentagon like a WallMart and let Taiwan come shopping for defensive weapons.

Actually I like that. Eventually those advanced weapons will be part of PLA. My only concern is that US only want the money, but not deliver the goods.

You sure are some piece of work!

First off, the US would give them export versions, not anything that would compromise our advantage over the worlds seas. Second, they will never be part of PLA because the US will kick the PLA's ass, just like it did in Korea before. Third, China's navy is inferior to my local marina, so don't get your hopes up.

Yeah, Taiwan has a more powerful navy than China does, and so does Japan. I agree. Sabre rattling.

The US has sold military hardware to Taiwan before, and China has "warned" the US before. Nothing new here. The US can't invade China, and China can't invade the US, from a traditional military standpoint. So what are they going to do? Risk nuclear war? Not likely. How about a trade embargo on the US? It would destroy their economy, while only hurting the US's. I can see it now... people asking in a panic, "Where am I going to get my next McDonald's Happy Meal toy from?"

Everything is made in China, from computers and furniture to McDonalds toys... Trade embargo on China would cause major economic depression, possibly far worst than that in 1930s. There would also be need to build new production plants in US or some low wage countries like India. Cost of that is huuuge.. Simply impossible.

Hmmm... Well, you do have a good point. But, when push comes to shove, can't the US & its allies manufacture the important stuff (such as computers) on our own? If I were a manufacturing company, I'd be preparing to move my overseas plants from China to India, personally... then you'd be replacing a Communist nation that does not really like the US at all with a parlimentary democracy that has always been good allies with the US, as well as having lots of people, land, and resources that have yet to be tapped...

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Yeah, Taiwan has a more powerful navy than China does, and so does Japan. I agree. Sabre rattling.

If Taiwan is so strong and powerful, why not declare outright Independence? Why US is sending 7 Carrier to West Pacific? Do you know the only operable Subs of Taiwan are from US built in WW2?

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
The US has sold military hardware to Taiwan before, and China has "warned" the US before. Nothing new here. The US can't invade China, and China can't invade the US, from a traditional military standpoint. So what are they going to do? Risk nuclear war? Not likely. How about a trade embargo on the US? It would destroy their economy, while only hurting the US's. I can see it now... people asking in a panic, "Where am I going to get my next McDonald's Happy Meal toy from?"

Yes, nothing new. The only thing new is that now US is sending 7 Carrier group to West pacific. Why? I know the gas price is quite high.

Hopefully there wont be a war because China is pretty powerful. (Not as powerful as the U.S. or Russia though). There is no need for another war...again. Hopefuly Bush doesnt start it.

I'd be preparing to move my overseas plants from China to India


Why not manufacture and create jobs here in the United Staes and stop the raise of unemployment and the homelessness. Really think about it, Our farmers are paid to not grow but we have starving families, People dont have jobs,cause corporations are sending the work elsewhere (India) come on if we as a whole the United States are gonna fight, Lets fight for a reason to help Americans and leave the rest of the world out there to figure it out for themselves.

china warns the US are they out of their mind no country warns the US they must be asking for a war

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I don't think so. The reason is, we could become involved in China vs Taiwan and at the same time as N Korea. Don't think China isn't aware fighting 3 wars at once and winning is not possible, even for the US. This is getting sticky quickly.

There wont be 3 fronts. There will be
1. We could completely abandon the middle east and come back later... we aren't doing anything special over there to be honest anyway.
2. American air and sea power could completely shut down China's drive on Taiwan.
3. The Korean peninsula provides a compact and defense-friendly battle area where capable infantry with good artillery and airsupport could hold out forever so long as the rear area remains secured.

A war with China would likely unfold like this:
Unless we just happen to start the war with 7 carrier groups in Taiwan, we have to let them take Taiwan in order to keep a foothold in Korea.

The goals of American carrier airpower would primarily be to target key assetts to stall the North Korean offensive, and second to gain air and naval superiority over China to protect Taiwan. Both are able to be accomplished.

America may LET china get onto Taiwan in order to trap and starve a large number of Chinese troops and assetts.

America MAY make the mistake of fighting on the peninsula, but SHOULD hold a defense shortly to draw in additional Chinese forces, conserve US forces, and build the impression that China is unable to fight effectively against the US (as defense is easier and less costly).
At the critical time- that is when Chinese forces have an excessive need for support, such as during the winter or after a major push which costs them fuel and munitions- American forces should be ready and willing to mount a costly but decisive invasion of mainland China with the intention of making it impossible for China to support forces on the peninsula. With Korea conquered and forces in Mainland China, perhaps capable of threatening the major cities and bases in the North East, it may be possible to force peace.

It may also be considered that China may attempt aggression westward into Afghanistan, or that the US may make a misguided attempt to attack China from the West. I consider this unlikely on both sides, but more likely from the Chinese side, if they believe they can capture that oil without hindering their war effort in Korea. I do not believe that America is likely to maintain forces in the middle East in any strength, for fear of inviting attack from Iran or other opporunistic forces.
When peace is achieved, aloof politicians or military leaders may believe that they have been justified to take action against Iran and others who may have been too loud or aggressive during the war, but the American people are highly unlikely to back such a war- isolationism or even radical change of government would likely follow even a limited war with China, because tens of thousands of casualties would be sustained in a relatively short war which would end with the crippling of the Chinese economy and government but no resolution of the actual conflict- in fact the Koreans would likely resent the war, adding fuel to discontent in America.

We can do it, but lets not. It would be too ugly, and there's always the chance that it might not be a limited war. What if Russia upholds its defense agreements with China? What if a general offensive against US forces, interests, and allies from Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, etc were to result? Even worse... what if India felt threatened and got involved (which we would likely press for in a full-scale war with China). The entire continents of Asia and North America could become burnt and possibly glowing husks of their former selves. Sure would be a great time to live in Australia!

Originally posted by Justmytype
Why not manufacture and create jobs here in the United Staes and stop the raise of unemployment and the homelessness...

Well, that's my #1 choice, of course! But I was trying to think like the people who run those companies shipping jobs overseas right now I'd like nothing more than redevolping the manufacturing sector of the US economy and providing Americans jobs!

Originally posted by American Mad Man
...the US would give them export versions,...

what do u mean by export versions. is it like a precision limited missile?

Originally posted by The Vagabond

A war with China would likely unfold like this:
Unless we just happen to start the war with 7 carrier groups in Taiwan, we have to let them take Taiwan in order to keep a foothold in Korea.

The goals of American carrier airpower would primarily be to target key assetts to stall the North Korean offensive, and second to gain air and naval superiority over China to protect Taiwan. Both are able to be accomplished.

In a limited war ( No nukes), the carrier groups are the first target to take out. Can carrier defend 10 missiles from 10 different directions? What about 20, 50? In war, China can produce missiles like sausage.

If it is a all-out war with nukes, both China and US will be destroyed.

Let's keep peace between US and China. Do not ever think US can bully China, simply because US is stronger.