Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

reply to post by pirhanna


I would argue that because it sees no point to existence, it is by practice trying to degenerate to a more animalistic view of life, and therefore yes, would be closer to a clack of anything all together. However, to go into philosophy, the knowledge of choosing that life means one is making rules.

Like I said. It is the act of being human that prevents you from having a total lack of beliefs. Even the knowledge of having no beliefs is the act of choosing that life style. Only an animal, which does not have the capacity to choose it's life's direction and is bound by instinct alone, can truly have no belief system. All belief is an act of free will to choose that way. An act of restraining or changing one's instinct. We has humans cannot choose to not question instinct. We question our instinct, BECAUSE our instinct is to question itself. That, my friend, is a radical notion.

reply to post by The Djin


How come he says god and not christ ?

I think your title is garbage and misleading, and I have never even heard of this guy. Who cares that he works at bbc. Its just another new outlet and these days news is just some average guy expressing my opinion. Kind of like what i am doing now.

You should create a post
"News has become societies pariah..." Whatever that means.

I am not a Christian. I am a Buddhist. Furthermore, I am not a good Buddhist. I am a lout with all the usual vices. I don't even work particularly hard to control those vices. On the contrary I enjoy them, . . . in moderation . . . usually.

But I have to say that I am unhappy that a prominent Christian should be moved to remark that he feels like he is a member of a pariah class in a culture, particularly the culture of the UK, a bulwark of European civilization during the Nazi darkness of the twentieth century. One could write volumes on this subject matter if one were intelligent and learned, so I will leave that to others.

I will confine myself to a friendly word of advice to Christians in fear of loss of status and numbers.

It's all well and good to have faith and be joyful, but life is a serious business. Christians should not expect others to be moved simply by their joy and their conviction of truth and their good works and megaphones and hand wringing and knitting of eyebrows and cajoling and fulminations and threats and guilt trips etc., etc. etc.

Think of the person you are talking to as a person of immense power, to whom one is forced to be polite. I think you will fare better, because when one gets right down to it, as a practice Christianity is pretty damn good.

He might be taking it too far saying it's socially unacceptable to say you believe in god...

Originally posted by fianna
reply to post by The Djin

 

How come he says god and not christ ?

I think your title is garbage and misleading, and I have never even heard of this guy. Who cares that he works at bbc. Its just another new outlet and these days news is just some average guy expressing my opinion. Kind of like what i am doing now.

You should create a post
"News has become societies pariah..." Whatever that means.

Dude, FYI if you'd paid attention the so called misleading title is an article which I have linked according to T&Cs .
How come he says god and not Christ ? No idea mate I'm an atheist so the mind of a christian is somewhat of a quagmire to me.Off hand I would say that as it appears to be a make it up as you go along cult god,yawhe , christ, jesus,lord, jehova, eloi etc are all interchangeable. And they teach this nonsense to kids lol.

reply to post by Equinox99

I remember one science teacher at my school used to ridicule the religious kids because they were taught creationism. How is that any different from a religious person ridiculing an atheist for not believing?

Historically when xtians have held positions of absolute control over population ridicule becomes the least of the Atheists concerns being barbecued alive is of quite a concern.

reply to post by masterp

Isn't it already time to get rid of the fiction that is religions? all of them, not only Christianity. We should obey the morality laws Jesus taught,

You're kidding right ? Let's take a look at the godmans' morality -

Luke 14;26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household

Colossians 3:22 22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh

Titus 2:9 9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

Deuteronomy 20:13-14 13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: 14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

1 Peter 2:18 18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

(NRSV) First Corinthians 7:20-21 Let each of you remain in the condition in which you were called. Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes


NRSV) First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more

(NRSV) Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women,

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

And then the claim is that Jesus and Yahweh are one and the same being so by this reasoning jesus is responsible for the fikth in the old testament also.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

They are beliefs, both atheists and religious people have them, if they didn't have them they couldn't argue with each other

Dude see if you can wrap your swede around this =

I am an atheist I do not believe there invisible man in the sky is real, this is a rejection based upon evidence or lack of.

I have opinions and opinions are easily changed whereas beliefs are almost always ingrained and very very difficult to change.

Not stamp collecting is not a hobby as sure as bald is not a hair colour.

I believe that my arse has a hole in it because the overwhelming evidence points to this conclusion although I have never seen this hole in my arse.

I am of the opinion that jesus is imaginary the lack of evidence leads me to this opinion so I choose not to believe that jesus is not imaginary.

Non belief is not a belief my friend

I am not religious. It has however scientifically been proven that Jesus was a real person and did in fact exist to live a life on this earth.

He is not imaginary.

The Djin,

It is a very interesting record of history that the most ungodly nations ...those under communist rule and philosophies have the highest and fastest history of death and killing of their own peoples and others...and in a much shorter period of time than the Christian nations.
How many were killed and or simply disappeared since the October Revolution of 1917 in Russia. How about Communist China?? Cambodia??

This philosophy or religion if you like came about after Charles Darwin and his origin of species and was picked up by Karl Marx and incorporated into his writings ..the manifesto and Das Kapital. Eventually it was picked up and incorporated into Communism..after going through the route of the Internationale.

What I find interesting is that Atheists so seldom want to go down this road..most avoid it totally in their religious rantings as if it never existed. Yet anyone with any thinking abilities at all..knows this and can connect these dots. Yet our media and history..public education ..totally avoids this history next to the significance of it.

England/ the UK has gone more and more secular..meaning Humanism..ie...athiest...since WW2. The pace is expanding rapidly. What one notices about the trend line and direction they are going into ..is that their secularism is becoming more in line with Islam and the Muslim beliefs than those of many Englishmen.
The Olde line of Englishmen are becoming second class citizens in the nation their forefathers built.
This is also the path slated for Americans as we are incorporating these very beliefs in our school system and media. Both of these..the school system and media are nothing but shills for the body politic. They are designed to turn out atheists and atheistic beliefs under the guise of Humanism...secular humanism. In short..anything ..and I mean anything but Christian.

Be very very careful is my point in this dissertation. Be careful about what passes for wisdom and intelligence..even religion. Not all is as seems out here. Much of it is hidden and often right in front of us...such that we do not see it for what it is.

To put it another way for clarity which I believe only those with a strong Christian background will understand/comprehend....the system is designed to bring in the kingdom of Ishmael..and not Issac.
This includes and particularly the body politic..which finances public education.

The Bible states...in Issac shall thy seed be called.

The body politic and its control agents..the public school system and the media shills..are attempting to bring out the kingdom of Ishmael..such that the child of the bondwoman (Ishmael) shall be heir with the child of the free woman (Issac). To do this they must have all religions as the same religion..and particularly to get rid of the Christian religion and beliefs.

This is what is going on and the direction intended.

This is also why the body politic in England is more inclined towards the Muslims than with Englishmen.
It will be so in time here in the United States as well..as we too take on English political/social beliefs and patterns.
Someone here too wants to make us Englishmen.

The method to do this is to approve of anything ...anything but Christianity...and I mean anything.

What has and is going on in England is predictable and has been noted by observers for over 30 years now. The pace is only accelerating and slated to take place here in the USA as well...and for the same reasons..to establish the kingdom of Ishmael and away from Issac.

What makes this clear is the knowledge of what happened in the Communist ungodly nations..and which is avoided by our politicians, media, and public education systems...in favor of anything but Christianity.

The Djin,
What you are attempting to post about the Bible..is made rediculous in it's time warp attempts at guilt..next to what the Communists have done and in a much shorter time period. Only public education non standards can dumb a people down so far that they cannot comprehend this in lieu of your guilt attempts at rationalilzation. You do not have to go that far back into history in a time warp technique to see this..only a hundred years will clear up alot.
I can do this with you and other non believers all day and night long...and have done so.
Be very careful what people think is wisdom.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Satan is alive and well and his army of demons is running rampant across this earth.

A pariah? That's fine with me. Call me whatever you choose, I don't really care. I know the difference in me before and after accepting Christ into my heart. I choose to have Him ...

I feel sorry for those who won't at least give Christ a chance. You'd be surprised at the changes in your heart!

reply to post by kidohno


Lee Strobel, who was an atheist, wrote a wonderful book, The Case for Christ. Strobel became a Christian while researching and writing this book.

reply to post by The Djin


Your probably right guy, there is no god for you. And when you die i bet all you see is darkness. Preach that too your kids, since you seem to have some daddy issues anyways.

it's pretty obvious that the same tactics that resulted in the deaths of jews, christians, buddhists, hindus, muslims and gypsies in hitler's germany and stalin's russia are once again (blatantly) in active mode but now they also have the advantage of large groups of new atheists, who share the common frame of reference regarding issues like genocide, euthanasia, and science used to force their version of "utopia" on the rest of the planet. and in their own minds, they justify this activity because "sometimes you just have to clear out the bottom feeders and idiots" (in other words, their view is the only viable one and if you disagree, you're an idiot. you must first dehumanize before you can genocide)

reply to post by kidohno

I am not religious. It has however scientifically been proven that Jesus was a real person and did in fact exist to live a life on this earth. He is not imaginary.

I think you've entered the foray with without adequate weaponry and armour my friend there is no "Scientific proof" if so please provide the scientist and his/her proof.

Indeed my friend jesus was a very real person his remains are to be found in a tomb at Talpiot along with his family a real flesh and blood person.

Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ! In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus:

Jesus ben Phiabi,
Jesus ben Sirach
Jesus ben Pandira
Jesus ben Ananias
Jesus ben Saphat
Jesus ben Gamala
Jesus ben Thebuth.
Jesus ben Stada
Jesus ben Sec,
Jesus ben Damneus
Jesus ben Gamaliel.

There is just one issue for me about Christians, their whole belief states unbelievers like myself go to hell. People can dance around this all their life and not make it a big issue but somewhere at the bottom line the Christian psyche will consider unbelievers as being lesser human beings and some will treat them as such. This must influence their approach to others in society, I can't see how you can be happy while speaking to someone whom your faith predicts will suffer in hell for all of eternity, while you get to go to heaven. Further developing that attitude and it would appear it is best for Christians to see fellow Christians as whole people and non Christians as defective in some way. However one puts it, nonbelievers may treat Christians with genuine kindness while Christians have to fake kindness in their attitude against the nonbelievers.

reply to post by The Djin


yeshua is a common jewish name (joshua). that other people were called joshua in the same time frame, is irrelevant. i'll look at the rest of your argument but no one is ill prepared, we are all guessing at historical data, based on current understanding (i call this translational bias).

Originally posted by undo
it's pretty obvious that the same tactics that resulted in the deaths of jews, christians, buddhists, hindus, muslims and gypsies in hitler's germany and stalin's russia are once again (blatantly) in active mode but now they also have the advantage of large groups of new atheists, who share the common frame of reference regarding issues like genocide, euthanasia, and science used to force their version of "utopia" on the rest of the planet. and in their own minds, they justify this activity because "sometimes you just have to clear out the bottom feeders and idiots" (in other words, their view is the only viable one and if you disagree, you're an idiot. you must first dehumanize before you can genocide)

Undo,

What I find of interest about Atheists is that most of them are heavy believers in Science. Many also think that Science/logic and reason is a better paradigm to follow..a better devout religious belief pattern to follow than Christianity.
What is of interest to me is that both Hitler's Germany and the Communist's Russia were also very heavy believers in Science/logic and reason to justify their making of the New Man and the Party.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by The Djin



Religion is a personal matter, or should be. I am sick and tired of hearing about the "beast" and the "anti-Christ" and "Satan" and "atheists" and "pagans". I don't want to hear any more about the "end times" or the "rapture" or "tribulation". Good on all those who are "born again". I don't care if anyone "speaks in tongues". "Evolution is just a theory". "Creationism should be taught as science". "Science is Godless". Go away with all that, please. Keep it to yourselves. Teach your kids what ever you want but I forbid you teaching my kids your religious edicts. Your religious beliefs do not trump my parental prerogatives.

God is real enough and each of us knows this well enough. My sins are my concern. I do not reject God. I reject religion.

reply to post by orangetom1999


personally, i don't think all atheists are exactly the same on this issue. where the problem arises, from what i can tell, is it's similar to the concept of sharia law: if enough people agree in the population, sharia law is instituted. this is a natural result of populations without an unbiased judge (sadly, the judge is no longer unbiased).

the USA was originally founded on the idea the power is with the individual, not the mob. but we've edged back towards mob think (something most americans tried to escape from when they left europe, to begin with). and mob think + atheism or mob think + religion equals the end of individual rights.

reply to post by undo

it's pretty obvious that the same tactics that resulted in the deaths of jews, christians, buddhists, hindus, muslims and gypsies in hitler's germany and stalin's russia are once again (blatantly) in active mode but now they also have the advantage of large groups of new atheists,

Come on Undo you've been at this long enough and been corrected time enough Hitlers Germany, the people that put him in office "the german people" and backed him all the way were mostly "Christian". All the German army swore an oath to god.
Adolf Hitler was a roman catholic Christian, the church celebrated his birthday.