Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

reply to post by orangetom1999


i think sitchin was right: jerusalem's temple mount was originally the site of a pre-flood temple complex to enlil. there's a hidden history of that location that goes back before recorded history. why did they call it the land flowing with milk and honey? why were there nephilim descendants living there? one guy actually did some research on it and according to him, sir isaac newton wrote a treatise on the importance of it. here's a video that describes the premise of it:

Re Eqinox99

You wrote:

["I remember one science teacher at my school used to ridicule the religious kids because they were taught creationism."]

And from this you draw what general conclusions?

I can ofcourse only support your opinion of an egalitarian, liberal society, but in all my time on ATS I've only seen one atheist, who got so heated, that he suggested 'atheist' extremism. Whereas I constantly see christian fundies, who in various ways openly recommend a return to some variety of anti-liberal situation.

And the opposition here and elsewhere on ATS is directed against the use of ATS as a pulpit for sermons, against claims of christian privileges, against the perversion of the principles of science, logic etc., against the endless embellishments covering up bizarre doctrinal points (seen from a non-believer perspective) and not least from the individual performances of the really bad cases of a christian paranoia/megalomania syndrome, who will rave and rant.

As long as such types exist, there will be opposition, suited to the situation. I do not recall anyone suggesting that christian congregations, christian churches or christian civic rights (on par with everybody else) should recieve some special negative status in terms of laws, legality or violence.

Re Gorman91:

You wrote:

[And yea, What I believe, I believe to be true. So do you. So does all 6 billion people. I fail to see how this is wrong way of viewing things."]

Learn to swim, before you go into the deep end.

Your pseudo-epistemology is just so many words, meaning nothing. Do you actually HAVE any real epistemological basis, from where it's possible to have a real communication with you, instead of rhetorics and demagogy?

Re Muzzleflash

You wrote:

["But they "believe" in that "lack of belief".

Therefore it's a religion.

I honestly don't see any difference from atheism and a theism."]

Ofcourse you don't see any difference, living in a world of your own devoid of logic, but filled with rhetoric.

You can play on your own rules, but if you want to use the rules/methodology of your opposition, it would definitely make you more credible, if you had the slightest inklings about those rules.

And in any case, is there ultimately any real POINT in presenting such demagogy on 'belief systems', when practically all pro-christian propagandists wouldn't know the difference between asummption, axioms, absolutes, logic, semantics, methodology, tests and especially couldn't present any reasonable basis for all their absurd claims (called epistemology by us 'eggheads').

Start from SOMEWHERE communicable (your choice). Tons of words without meaning are only for zombis.

Re Squizzy

You wrote:

[" In parts of the UK these are actual problems that Christians face
1. You are not allowed to have the word christmas displayed in your window or in shops in town, it must be winterfest......."]

How can that be a problem for christians? Christmas is a church-compromise to create a faked syncretism between invading christianity and local religions/practises.

Re AQuestion

You wrote:

["With all of that being said, some atheists feel a need to attack anyone....... (christian)"]

I think the keywords here are SOME atheists, and ANYONE christian (what anyone?).

While there is a definite and strong opposition to christian doctrines etc., this can be taken as an expression of intellectual, scientific, social or academic criticism (as with anything else in life, where there are options of perspective/opinions).

The really heavy non-christian artillery usually only manifests, when preaching or raving fascist-fringe christians turn up.

RE Kidohno

You wrote:

["I am not religious. It has however scientifically been proven that Jesus was a real person and did in fact exist to live a life on this earth."]

With what kind of 'science' has this been proven?

In any case the Jesus usually referred to is the one described in NT, based on the opinions of a sociopath, who never met the alleged 'original' Jesus.

Re Orangetom 1999

You wrote:

["How many were killed and or simply disappeared since the October Revolution of 1917 in Russia. How about Communist China?? Cambodia??"]

[" What one notices about the trend line and direction they are going into ..is that their secularism is becoming more in line with Islam and the Muslim beliefs than those of many Englishmen.
The Olde line of Englishmen are becoming second class citizens in the nation their forefathers built."]

And ofcourse christian soldiers are the natural first line of defense against these enemies of yours (but not so much enemies of mine). Christian clichée no 117 b.

Quote: ["Both of these..the school system and media are nothing but shills for the body politic. They are designed to turn out atheists and atheistic beliefs under the guise of Humanism...secular humanism. In short..anything ..and I mean anything but Christian."]

And instead you suggest what? A theocracy, and teaching about a geocentric universe 6000 years old. This is one of the 'whining' arguments: "Why are we treated like everybody else, without the special privileges we crave?"

Quote: [Be very very careful is my point in this dissertation. Be careful about what passes for wisdom and intelligence..even religion. Not all is as seems out here. Much of it is hidden and often right in front of us...such that we do not see it for what it is."]

Dude, I've been in contact with 'esoteric' aspects of religion since 1965 and seen most of the fake approaches to it: 'Spiritually' advanced man in bar to targeted woman: "I can scry your thighs". Christian doctrinalist 'seeing' secret messages in the bible or 'talking' with the demons send out by OT 'god' to slaughter people (only ofcourse christians call them 'angels'.

Quote: ["To put it another way for clarity which I believe only those with a strong Christian background will understand/comprehend...."]

Aaaaa, the elite.

Quote: ["The Bible states...in Issac shall thy seed be called."]

Against such logical and powerful arguments no opposition is possible. All atheists stand corrected.

Quote: ["The body politic and its control agents.."]

Some of the christianities had a go at ruling Europe earlier. The result doesn't inspire to a repeat.


Quote: ["The method to do this is to approve of anything ...anything but Christianity...and I mean anything."]

Or you could inverse this argument and say, that the christianities just have DISproved themsleves.

Quote: ["What has and is going on in England is predictable and has been noted by observers for over 30 years now."]

If that worries you, you should take a look at some of the continental or northern european contries. They make UK look like the vatican in comparison.

Quote; [".....is made rediculous in it's time warp attempts at guilt...]

What ATTEMPTS? Extremist christian guilt is written all over the place, but that can ofcourse be conveniently forgotten in the light of your competitors on the atrocity market (e.g. Hitler and Stalin).

Quote: ["Only public education non standards can dumb a people down so far that they cannot comprehend this in lieu of your guilt attempts at rationalilzation"]

You call present education 'non-education'. Personally I call your educational suggestions for indoctrination or brainwashing.

Quote: ["What makes this clear is the knowledge of what happened in the Communist ungodly nations..and which is avoided by our politicians, media, and public education systems...in favor of anything but Christianity."]

The McCarthy period certainly was a glorious time for US, bringing truth, democracy, bookburnings and international acclaim to your contry.

Quote: ["Be very careful what people think is wisdom."]

That's EXACTLY what we non-believers do.

reply to post by bogomil


by sociopath are you referring to apostle paul?
i'm not exactly fond of some his writings but he was a man of his time and, at the time, women were about as important as the barnyard cow in most of the "civilized world." in fact, in some places, they were considered about as important as dung, and killed at birth. of course, those societies were based on male pederasty and/or things like the vedic texts of india, which suggested the fate of newborn daughters was best served by tossing them in the air and catching them on the end of your sword.

Re NellahB

You wrote:

["I feel sorry for those who won't at least give Christ a chance. You'd be surprised at the changes in your heart!"]

And I feel sorry for those who did and got stuck in it. You'd be surprised at the changes in your sanity, if you get out again.

Re Undo

You wrote:

["it's pretty obvious that the same tactics that resulted in the deaths of jews, christians, buddhists, hindus, muslims and gypsies in hitler's germany and stalin's russia are once again (blatantly) in active mode but now they also have the advantage of large groups of new atheists, who share the common frame of reference regarding issues like genocide, euthanasia, and science used to force their version of "utopia" on the rest of the planet."]

I live in a part of the world, where secular, liberal, egalitarian principles are very strong; consequently this area is amongst those with the highest living standards in the world, we take care of our old and ill, the educational system is of high standard and almost free. We have no genocides, decent treatment of minorities etc.

Actually I'm a bit uncertain of your direction, but I take it, that you are suggesting 'christian' values instead of all this misery we have here. A bible with only 'justified' genocide, christianities which killed both each other AND jews some centuries back. A christianity which was sitting on the fence, when Hitler took over jew-killing.

And as for science. Definitely, let's return to Calvinism, where medicine was frowned on, because it was up to 'god' to decide if illness should kill you. And please take away practically painless dentistry, it's godless and as bad as decadent soft toilet-paper.

Undo, I'm sure your brilliant defense of christianity (IF I understand you right) will have secured you a ticket to Disneyland in the Sky.

Glory be.

Answer to your latest post will follow soon.

reply to post by bogomil


far as i know, i'm still sane, although i occassionally get irritated when people who claim to be my friend(s), suggest me and everyone i love or know, should be killed for the sake of mother earth (which to me is not quite rational, since it suggests mass genocide is a form of necessary environmentalism. why would i want to embrace the deaths of 2/3rds of the people on the planet? that's not rational..)

double post

Re Undo

You wrote:

["by sociopath are you referring to apostle paul?"]

Yes.

reply to post by bogomil


the usa was originally based on the same things. that it doesn't resemble that now, is not because some of its people are christians. but because it's been the victim of a hostile take over.

also, christians died in germany and russia too. in fact stalin killed way more christians than hitler killed jews. i'm gonna turn that around on you and ask where were the people coming to the defense of the christian farmers of russia during stalin's purges? i think pointing fingers on this topic ends up in this same exact place and will never get beyond it. the only solution is to realize that there's no higher ground for any stereotypical group to take.

Re Undo

You wrote:

["far as i know, i'm still sane, although i occassionally get irritated when people who claim to be my friend(s), suggest me and everyone i love or know, should be killed for the sake of mother earth (which to me is not quite rational, since it suggests mass genocide is a form of necessary environmentalism. why would i want to embrace the deaths of 2/3rds of the people on the planet? that's not rational..)"]


Sorry, but what on earth are you talking about? This sounds like some secondhand 'information' some pastor has spoonfed you with.

Anyway, I go back to topic or responses to earlier posts.

Re Fianna

You wrote:

["Your probably right guy, there is no god for you. And when you die i bet all you see is darkness. Preach that too your kids, since you seem to have some daddy issues anyways."]

There are some obvious inconsistencies in this.

How will you collect?

How do you actually know it's dark. Have you died recently? OR could your information POSSIBLY be based on a confused book, where most of the observable postulates have turned out to be in contradiction with practically every system for knowledge-gathering mankind has?

Why should anyone preach anything to anybody? It's much better to 'teach kids to learn', so they later can form their own opinions. But maybe your holy bubble doesn't contain this option of individuality, but only the 'preaching' option.

Something very dark and powerful is shifting the consciousness of the people, for the betterment of their agenda. What you are seeing with Christianity is only a small sliver of the evil that is plaguing the world right now. The majority of the west is mentally sick right now. It is crucial that you stay away from the average member of the populace and find people with sound minds (good luck) as sick minds are contagious.

If people aren't your thing, then get a dog (or if people are your thing, get a dog anyways). Grow a garden; have something to nurture and take pride in. Throw away the TV. Do whatever it takes to quarantine yourself.

Your mind will heal. Question everything you hear. Ask yourself "is this the person talking, or the sickness?" Take hope with you, that things will start to get better soon. Enjoy life and don't let others hide the light and corrupt your knowledge, that there is a God, and Jesus and all of us are his sons and daughters. Remember Atheists, Jesus did not profess to be God. Jesus was simply enlightened enough to preach his blueprint.

reply to post by bogomil


was left over from another thread about how the planet needs to be relieved of a few billion people, to save mother earth. i saw people who i considered friends on here, suggesting that's a good idea. first of all, i like being alive. second, i love my kids and family and friends and even other people on the planet, so the idea of them all dying as a result of deliberate mass genocide or deliberate refusal to warn them in time to save their lives, is not my idea of rational thinking.

reply to post by sliceNodice


i starred ya even though i don't think your post was completely accurate,
i did like your advice about buying/getting a dog.