Christians are becoming social pariahs in Britain, claims BBC presenter Jeremy Vine

First before I write my opinion I want to state that I am a Christian. The belief that I hold about theism and non theism is that it should be practiced on an individual basis and that is where it should stop. No one should force their opinions on anyone else or ridicule someone for following what they believe or for what they lack in a belief system.

Building a strong community is going to be important if we want to move forward. It doesn't matter what religion you are in or what you believe because we will always have things to fight about. People think religion is holding our world back but I think terrible communities is what truly holds us back.

Let us take New Zealand for example. They serve as a great community that every other community should build upon. Everyone resides there peacefully whether they are Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, and etc. (EDIT: I am sure they still have their problems on in individual bases but less than the rest of the world.)

It isn't about what you believe but what kind of community is built around you. If there is an abundance of negativity than essentially the community will be in a constant struggle with one another. That is why religion should be practiced individually rather than collectively.

Atheists are no different in their thoughts than religious people. Atheists lack a belief in a deity but it doesn't mean they don't impose their will upon religious people. I remember one science teacher at my school used to ridicule the religious kids because they were taught creationism. How is that any different from a religious person ridiculing an atheist for not believing?

People forget that everyone here is human with the same feelings and emotions. The quicker we stop playing the blame game the quicker we can all move forward.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Yes you do. Weather you know it or not. Rules are atheism are quite reduced. It also depends on which branch you fall into. In as much as protestants and Catholics are not of the same branch, you and other athiests would not be. However, in as much as every Christian has their own opinions and are unified by one single fact: Christ died and rose for our sins, Atheists are unified in one unified fact: There is no God.

Ah so the true colours of a Christian come out. Because you say it is, it must be. A tad fascist that.

You've avoided my challenge. You're putting your hands over your ears and shouting "NOTHING IS EVERYTHING" or perhaps "NON-BELIEF IS BELIEF". George Orwell would be proud of you.

Trying to dilute the accuracy and strength of my challenge to you on this by producing reams of text about theistic musings wont win the argument - especially when you're basing everything on your opinion, and a fatally flawed one at that.

The Rev.

reply to post by The Revenant


Ok then. Explain how you are right, because from where I'm standing, you are saying my very thorough explanation as an opinion. And I beg to question if you actually read it and thought about it from the speed you replied in.

So here it is. How am I doing what you are saying?

And yea, What I believe, I believe to be true. So do you. So does all 6 billion people. I fail to see how this is wrong way of viewing things. We can all believe what we want. I am not forcing anything on you. But I suppose, seemingly refusing to respond with reasons and instead titling things you want to, you wouldn't.

Do tell. if I am closing my ears and eyes and saying I'm right you're wrong, why did I take a post to explain myself? I am clearly directing towards your points and claims with rebuttals. So why don't you? Because what I see is someone doing what you say I am and refusing to answer the dear old "how come?"

From some of the replies on this thread, I wonder if maybe there's a grain of truth in his statements. I know that I personally find it in poor taste when someone merely mentions they're Christian and then some jerk starts questioning every little nuance of their faith. I can see how if he's had that happen a few times that he would feel ostracized and a bit put-out, and, in my opinion, rightfully so.

No doubt, the ones saying these are are Luciferean/Satanists/Gnostics. I know they don't like Yeshua and his message of Service To Others and Unconditional Love, so much so its always been a subject of great control what little portion we got that were truly from him. But due to their masonic black on white, dualistic checkerboard floor these guys had to give us white squares and the way home, out of their negative prison planet loaded with traps, such as starving people versus materialism and wars. The billions starving are the biggest karma dump, we need to ensure every single person on this planet is 100% equal, and has full access equally to the land and resources and all the seeds, and shares in knowledge as a citizen of this planet and as our fellow human, without any demands of slave labor. Thats just their birthright, after that they can volunteer, get organized if they want to be civilized. I don't mean this the way the ones trying to crash the system do, they just want the small elite group with their armies to own everything and the majority to be serfs in a new, moneyless eden. Thats not what I mean.

So, these guys always put down the Way Back Home. Budda was a wonderful example of a Seeker, but Yeshua had found the pearl, was his Higher Self, the Family of Light, and was here on assignment showing us the way home. But even if one thinks of Jesus as a metaphor, what a great metaphor. But you don't need to go to Church to follow his examples.

Jeremey Vine just showed his gnostic negative stripes.

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Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
You seem to have one or two anger issues that you need to address , Vicky . Are you sure that Christianity is right for you ?

It is perfect for someone like that.

I do not know a perfect Christian, we are all sinners, and Christians should know that they are sinning. If someone told you Christians are supposed to be perfect or completely free of sin they are incorrect. Man will never be free from the burden of sin until they die.

Raist

Maybe people will finally start abandoning religion and take up logic, science, and common sense. In the year 2011, don't you think it's about damn time?

Did anyone see the Golden Globes last night? Britain Ricky Gervais hosted it. His very last sentence of the evening is sure to cause a raucous among the religious. "And I'd like to thank God..... for making me an atheist."

reply to post by Advantage


You think? Of course it is. Britian is a Muslim country now. What do you really think drives this stuff. You can put almost anything on TV lambasting Christainity or mocking God and most applaud it and a very few pipe up about it, (mind you no real Christian could get offended at it because we are above that), but try that with Islam.... Threats, protests, they get soooooooo offended. What is Allah not big enough to look after himself?

reply to post by pjslug


You mean like the leaders/elites/para military, and the black op scientists and their WSFM:


WSFM Weird Science and Friggen Magic

Well at least they got some anti gravity crafts out of it and this:



Mercedes grown from a seed, took almost 17 years to become road worthy. Disclosure came and went but no one noticed. Oh yeah, too logical to pay attention, anything outside of their box, they couldn't see. It was off their radar.

I personally think the spiritual, whether one is traditional, or metaphyscis, quantum, but seeking the way out of here, asking who you are, paying attention, caring about those in need, this is more important than anything else. Jesus still represents TRUE LOVE and thats the way back home.

reply to post by Equinox99


Aye? You're a Christian and come up with this? What Bible do you read. Jesus said we will rule and reign and that he is the only way, and your going to lye down to sleep till it's all over? Forgive my shock but we don't follow a human being who walkd the earth, we serve a reigning King yet to return. There is none other than God who will place all under Jesus authority.

You state "That is why religion should be practiced individually rather than collectively..." yes I agree, Jesus came to put an end to religiousness. But you forget who we are, who we belong to, what we inherit. Essentially, if you are a kingdom believer (Jesus only talked about Kingdom not Christianity), it means that we are brothers to Jesus Christ and therefore sons of God as we are spirit and so is he. Once you get that, life here is very different.

How do you practice an individuality within a family my friend unless you are willingly withdrawing from that family. Please search deeper, there is so much more for you than you know or experience yet. Much much more.

I take it he's saying he can't speak about his faith on his show, but his name is almost a parady on the topic so i don't take it seriously. Maybe he's just speaking out about this, and a victim rather than a wolf in sheeps clothing, don't know.

Originally posted by gandalphthegrey
Please don't take this the wrong way christians , but why should you be treated any differently than any other brainwashing cult

When a faith is based on bringing a free-will choice to believe or not, then it's not a cult. I do not speak for the Catholics or other faiths, just my own. Are you so stereotyping me by lumping me in with others who would not allow you free will? You are free to believe as you choose - the fact that you are bigoted against believers is not held against you.

Ever notice stacking the deck with a slanted statement sucks? LOL

I find Christians are generally bigotted , self righteous and spiritually unable to walk without a crutch .

I generally find people who tar a whole group with one big brush are often bigoted themselves. Or, conversely, why would you deny others their feeling of communion with God just because you are incapable of feeling it yourself?

Your religion is based on a ficticious character from an ill documented history .

and atheism bases itself on a flawed western worldview that insists on reductionist philosophy instead of a gestalt view as found other worldviews.

These are my beliefs . would you ridicule them ?

No more than you would ridicule mine. The fact that you think my point of view is self-delusion and i think your is the same doesn't mean we can't communicate. Honest, respectful conversation can bridge many things.

reply to post by The Revenant


If Atheism is not a religion, why do we find them trolling the religious sections and debunking evenone who believes otherwise?

Atheists are more obsessed than some Christians which is sad because Christians should be obsessed. The dedication of a basic Muslim would put most Christians to shame (dedication only). If Atheism is not a religion lets examine some points that can be clarified elsewhere. Non atheists will know what I'm talking about, atheists will probably miss the point....


Atheism is a religion. A religion doesn’t have to posit a god who must be identified or worshiped. Some religions are polytheistic (Hinduism, Mormonism), some monotheistic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), some non-theistic (Buddhism). I’d say the new atheists and their religion are “anti-theistic.” But their atheism is religious nonetheless. Consider this:

They have their own worldview.
They have their own orthodoxy.
They have their own brand of apostasy.
They have their own prophets
They have their own messiah
They have their own preachers and evangelists. (and boy, are they “evangelistic.”)
They are seeking converts.
They have faith. (the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. To deny it takes faith. Evolution has no explanation for why our universe is orderly, predictable, measurable. In fact (atheistic) evolutionary theory has no rational explanation for why there is such a thing as rational explanation. There is no accounting for the things they hope you won’t ask: Why do we have self-awareness? What makes us conscious? From what source is there a universal sense of right and wrong? They just take such unexplained things by … faith.)

Satisfies what I already knew.

reply to post by daggyz


That's true.

Atheists claim it's not a religion, it's a "lack of belief".

But they "believe" in that "lack of belief".

Therefore it's a religion.

I honestly don't see any difference from atheism and a theism.

reply to post by The Djin


What the early christians didnt destroy of the "old ways", the saracens will with glee.

Will we eventually see "virtual" burnings of christians and pagan alike?

Legally, I'd say they already are. They use the courts and lawyers instead of witch hunters and pyres.

Welcome to the new inquisition, brought to you by your friends the muzzies.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by daggyz

 

That's true.

Atheists claim it's not a religion, it's a "lack of belief".

Tis a play on semantics as far as I'm concerned. A lack of belief means that it would be accurate to say that in their opinion, God does not exist.

Don't get me wrong; I'm perfectly fine with this opinion and have not qualms with it whatsoever. I just find such a statement to be somewhat intellectually dishonest.

In parts of the UK these are actual problems that Christians face
1. You are not allowed to have the word christmas displayed in your window or in shops in town, it must be winterfest.
2. No depiction of father christmas or santa is to be on show.
3. Some towns are not allowed a christmas tree unless it is for part of the *light festival*
4. No cross is allowed to be erected in the town centre at Easter.
just to point out Santa is not a religious figure. The light festival is either hindu or muslim.
I have no objection to anyone of any faith showing their festivals in whatever way they like but you have to allow christians to do the same.
They always cite that it offends the muslims well I get offended by some of the things they do but I tollerate it, as so should they.
You are not allowed to wear a cross in schools but people from other faiths can proudly wear their talismen etc.
the country should be ruled by 1 law only that serves all but this is no longer the case.

reply to post by The Djin


The people who are saying that the UK is fast turning its back on christianity are not too far from the truth. l would like to ask all you christians out there, what do you think Jesus would do if he came back tomorrow. What would he see? The head of the catholic church and his cardinals, bishops and priests covering up the child sex abuse cases worldwide, only admitting to it when caught out, hiding the members of the clergy and protecting them. He would also see the leaders of the so called christian countries starting their day in prayer to his father before they go about their buisness of the slaughter of innocent people, men women and children, Christian soldiers with a bible in one hand and a killing machine in the other. Christian leaders creating false flags and lies so they can go into other countries kill and rob them of their resources rather than pay these poorer countries for their oil, gas and whatever else they want, He would see the churches with their vast wealth and turn his head and see the poor starving children in this world. Worst still he would see the ordinary folk going to church and praying to his father to keep THEMSELVES safe. Well, what do you think he would say, "well, humanity has had two thousand years, my father gave them the ten laws to live by so that they could by now have created a heaven on earth, well done , l'm so proud of you all, so proud of you l can't stop crying" l think so many people can see through all the hypocrisy now, lts not that they are turning away from God, lts from the church and all the hypocrites. Peace starchild.

Originally posted by star child
reply to post by The Djin

 

The people who are saying that the UK is fast turning its back on christianity are not too far from the truth. l would like to ask all you christians out there, what do you think Jesus would do if he came back tomorrow. What would he see? The head of the catholic church and his cardinals, bishops and priests covering up the child sex abuse cases worldwide, only admitting to it when caught out, hiding the members of the clergy and protecting them. He would also see the leaders of the so called christian countries starting their day in prayer to his father before they go about their buisness of the slaughter of innocent people, men women and children, Christian soldiers with a bible in one hand and a killing machine in the other. Christian leaders creating false flags and lies so they can go into other countries kill and rob them of their resources rather than pay these poorer countries for their oil, gas and whatever else they want, He would see the churches with their vast wealth and turn his head and see the poor starving children in this world. Worst still he would see the ordinary folk going to church and praying to his father to keep THEMSELVES safe. Well, what do you think he would say, "well, humanity has had two thousand years, my father gave them the ten laws to live by so that they could by now have created a heaven on earth, well done , l'm so proud of you all, so proud of you l can't stop crying" l think so many people can see through all the hypocrisy now, lts not that they are turning away from God, lts from the church and all the hypocrites. Peace starchild.

I think what you ask is a fair question. If he returned he would see what he expected and talked about. People (not just Christians) have become totally selfish and urge driven. There is no gentleness and his church has been degraded by people who claim they believe in him, yet, act just like the rest of the world. Revelations talks about a time when the church would see a great number of people would fall away from the faith. Christianity is the only religion that predicted it's own demise.

Going to church does not make someone spiritual and I am amazed at the number of churches that barely discuss God at all. Many churches have become social events. I am also stunned by the number of people who call themselves Christians and have not ever read the bible so they are unable to say why or exactly what they believe.

The bible predicted a time of many false prophets and teachers. If one watches "Christian" television, they are not hard to find. The preachers tell you how God is giant toy giver, that is not what the bible says. As for the OP, Christianity in England is just about dead and that is true throughout Europe. It is now happening in the United States. It is dead because the churches stopped focusing on God and were more concerned with social issues, that is not what built the church.

On this site I see more atheists talking about the end of the world than Christians and that is odd. With all the strange things going on, one would think the churches would be discussing the times we live in; but, instead they waste their time fighting gay marriage. I find more reason to argue with Christians about Christianity than atheists and a lot of the atheists know the bible better than the Christians I meet.

With all of that being said, some atheists feel a need to attack anyone who says they are Christian, that is not surprising considering the times. If you say you believe in God people will say you are delusional, stupid and anti-social. That is with knowing absolutely about you, you can read it in this thread.

The bible says that the faithful will be ridiculed, attacked and finally martyred. This is already going on around the world. What we are experiencing in the west is nothing compared to what happens everyday in Africa and Asia and the middle east. Prince Charles, the head of the church of England, recently said that Christians needed to be more like Muslims. That is the status of Christianity in England.

reply to post by Gorman91


Atheism might be construed as a type of unconventional belief system.
Nihilism is closer to an absence of a belief system.