The Day Before Roswell

reply to post by r00t999


Well root.... I guess you don't get sarcasm either. Mao's morning edition? You actually tried to find that as a real newspaper?? wow I suppose you checked to see if there are parking meters on Kowloon ave too? Obviously all my sarcasm went straight over your head.

scuse me while I put on Jethro Tulls' thick as a brick to listen to as I type.

If you took the time to read this thread, you would see there are several people in line ahead of you wanting me to dig out specific articles for them and post the results. So I'm afraid you will have to wait your turn and be patient.
Especially a d.b. cooper.

One last clarification, though I doubt it will do any good in trying to un- confuse you. The story in the Hong Kong paper was about a local sighting right there in Hong Kong, not one from the US that took two weeks to get over there.

All I can say is wow.

Originally posted by SecretSky

then finally, a full 2 weeks AFTER Roswell, jackpot! The shiny fleet of 9 arrives during mid day as 100's of Chinese dock workers, and various townspeople watch in amazement at their speed and sharp movements.

What would be really amazing (although highly unlikely given the amount of work needed), would be to try and find any reports of sightings or unusual aerial phenomena in other countries between China and USA during those full 2 weeks after the Roswell incident.

Perhaps from that a sort of flight-path could be worked out; unless of course they just teleported between countries or travelled so fast that tracking/sightings become unlikely.

The reason I suggest this is that their 'rock concert' style tour of cities seems rather slow to me, so maybe worth looking into flight paths IMO.

Cheers

Great thread!

Very good idea SecretSky. Another member suggested doing the same for the US sightings, so as I compile, I am making note of the direction of travel at the end of each sighting, as well as the time, Then posting each report in chronological order, making a flight plan easier to track.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by r00t999

For C) Are you discrediting yourself ??

You don't believe in Elves?

I have a picture as proof! But the tan lines are disgusting.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


sorry I cannot understand your posts, very contradicting
why do you feel you have to "correct" people with your bizarre take on UFO's ?
I don't think your claims or theories are sound at all, 1st I thought
you were being sarcastic but then I realised you actually believe what
you say. flitting about from one claim to another, try to stay on topic.

so nearly everyone who claims to have witnessed a disk has really just misidentified
the undercarage of a triangle? And Satan is behind the saucers along with his band
of demons.
you be telling folk that Chinese lanterns are just a hologram of a De-cloaking probe next.
Can you try to stick to one concept at a time please, your confusing and de-railing the thread.

nothing personal, maybe we will have to agree to disagree on the UFO topic. this thread is
mainly about sightings leading up to Roswell and similar cases from that era.

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by r00t999

 

One last clarification, though I doubt it will do any good in trying to un- confuse you. The story in the Hong Kong paper was about a local sighting right there in Hong Kong, not one from the US that took two weeks to get over there.

There is something that you can really help : show us the "story in the Hong Kong paper "... if it was such a "biggest surprise" for you, you should have kept a record.

Seems I recall Bob Lazar once pissed off his supervisor by using his name Dennis when he first started to talk

Originally posted by A51Watcher
A while back Stanton Friedman told me that Roswell was not the beginning, but actually the end of a period when Flying Discs (as they were called back then) were buzzing the entire United States continuously for an entire 2 weeks BEFORE Roswell.

Hi A51Watcher,

Further to your U2U asking if I had access to database information about sightings between 30th March 1947 and 3rd Septembmer 1947, I've had a look at one or two of the various UFO databases that I have obtained over the years.

The largest and most useful for present purposes is the huge UFOCAT database, started by Dr. David R. Saunders - a participant in the (in)famous Condon UFO study - over 40 years ago and currently updated and maintained by Donald A Johnson and sold by CUFOS.

For the period you asked about (i.e. 30 March 1947 to 3rd September 1947), the 2004 edition of that database had 2,578 entries.

Some UFO sightings have more than one entry in UFOCAT, so 2,578 does NOT equal 2,578 different sightings. I could probably work out the number of different sightings within that period stored in UFOCAT but it is probably in the order of about 2,000 different sightings.

The vast majority of those sightings were in the USA. While this can partially be explained by the fact that the researchers that compiled UFOCAT were generally in the USA and/or used sources written by American researchers, the dominance of reports from the USA within the period you mentioned is disproportionate to other periods also covered by UFOCAT.

In terms of Stan's comment about Roswell marking the end of a period, that obtains some support from the number of entries for UFO reports in UFOCAT before and after the Roswell newspaper reports on 8/9 July 1947.

The relevant numbers of entries in UFOCAT (which, once again, is not equal to the number of DIFFERENT sightings - which would involve a bit more work to ascertain) are:

21 June 1947 : 27 UFOCAT entries
22 June 1947 : 7 UFOCAT entries
23 June 1947 : 15 UFOCAT entries
24 June 1947 : 100 UFOCAT entries
25 June 1947 : 30 UFOCAT entries
26 June 1947 : 18 UFOCAT entries
27 June 1947 : 57 UFOCAT entries
28 June 1947 : 55 UFOCAT entries
29 June 1947 : 38 UFOCAT entries
30 June 1947 : 38 UFOCAT entries
01 July 1947 : 52 UFOCAT entries
02 July 1947 : 51 UFOCAT entries
03 July 1947 : 89 UFOCAT entries
04 July 1947 : 281 UFOCAT entries
05 July 1947 : 179 UFOCAT entries
06 July 1947 : 372 UFOCAT entries
07 July 1947 : 419 UFOCAT entries
08 July 1947 : 248 UFOCAT entries
09 July 1947 : 65 UFOCAT entries
10 July 1947 : 55 UFOCAT entries
11 July 1947 : 18 UFOCAT entries
12 July 1947 : 17 UFOCAT entries
13 July 1947 : 10 UFOCAT entries
14 July 1947 : 4 UFOCAT entries
15 July 1947 : 7 UFOCAT entries
16 July 1947 : 3 UFOCAT entries
17 July 1947 : 4 UFOCAT entries
18 July 1947 : 1 UFOCAT entries
19 July 1947 : 1 UFOCAT entries

Hope this helps,

Isaac

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by Anunaki10

 

www.bing.com...

some of the von Braun information

Thanks for these links 'TeslaandLyne'. Yes, Wernher Von Braun was a rocket scientist, who helped NASA to reach the Moon, during the Cold War / Space Race between the Soviet Union and USA. NASA had worked so very very hard to sent out an astronaut in attempt to be the first man in space, but suddenly on 12 April, 1961, Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space instead, and became the hero of the Soviet Union, and automatically got a high position in Kremlin. NASA and the rest of the people of the United States were frustrated, angry and sad about that it was NOT an American who became the first man in space. The Americans were bad loosers, and said >>Damn' Russians!

reply to post by IsaacKoi


IsaacKoi,

Thank you for looking up those figures and your insight. Quite interesting how the numbers jump into triple digits during July 4 - July 8.

reply to post by Anunaki10


Anunaki10,

Good job explaining the cold war feelings at the time and also the ET statements by the people involved. On ATS I often assume that everyone already knows this history, and forget how many new (to the subject matter) people are not aware of these facts.

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by Anunaki10

 

Anunaki10,

Good job explaining the cold war feelings at the time and also the ET statements by the people involved. On ATS I often assume that everyone already knows this history, and forget how many new (to the subject matter) people are not aware of these facts.

Thanks 'A51Watcher'. And stars and flags for this great thread

Always a pleasure to contribute with something

www.livevideo.com... The UFO Hunters - The UFO before Roswell
extraordinaryintelligence.com... I don't recall at this moment if this link about 1947 UFO sightings prior to the Roswell Incident have been posted, but anyway here it is.

Update on 1947 International Sightings of flying disk's:

The following list is provided by Harold E. Burt, who has served on the Board of Directors for Orange County Chapter of MUFON.

Sightings in Europe:

April 20, 1947

Citizens in Col de Serres, France report seeing disks flying over the valley.


June 10, 1947

Fast-moving flying objects are seen in Finland.


July 7, 1947

In Sussex, England people see disks fly over the coast and out to sea.

Citizens in Naples, Italy report a slow-moving, shiny disk overhead.

Astronomers at Del Satto Observatory in Chile spot disks. Estimated speed: 3,000 miles per
hour!

Japan and Holland also report seeing high-speed disks on this day.


August 11, 1947

In Sweden over four hundred people see fast-moving disks fly overhead.


September 1, 1947

Greece: British army units see "mystery projectiles."


Harold E. Burt's Website

Originally posted by A51Watcher
B) General: "I don't care WHAT it takes... BRING ONE OF THOSE THINGS DOWN... NOW!!!
Do you understand me??!!

"...Guard planes "patrol" saucer routes with camera's..." Yeah you bet, along with our top weapons of the day too!!

And the General's wishes came through (i know it's just a joke about the General)

www.abovetopsecret.com... (my posts on page 11 on this thread) this-bayu.blogspot.com...

A UFO entered the airspace over the African continent, and Mirage fighter jets were then scrambled to intercept the UFO, they fired at the UFO and succesfully hit it, and the UFO succesfully crashed near the border between Bostwana and south Africa, in the Kalahari Desert. At least some of the aliens survived, and captured. The General and his military personnel immediately arrived at Valhalla Centurion Pretoria Air Force Base near Kalahari Desert, and used a Lockheed C-5 Galaxy transport airplane to transport the UFO wreckage and the captured aliens to Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Inside the UFO wreckage the General and his personnel also found writings of unusual alien hieroglyphics.
(Descriptions of the captured aliens looks similar to this one from this video clip video.google.com...# )

http://j_kidd.tripod.com/b/140.html

The U.S. NAVY succesfully downed a UFO on January 24, 1991, according to a classified report detailing allied cooperation in the war to liberate Kuwait. It was detected by radar for nearly 30 seconds and was flying in an erratic manner. The order to down the aircraft was given when it buzzed several american ships, including the USS Wisconsin, USS England and USS O'Brien and two british frigates, the HMS Battieaxe and HMS Jupiter.

All vessels in the area fired on the alien spacecraft, which was described by officers as a chromium plated air- craft which emitted a high pitched piercing sound unlike conventional jets. The UFO was most likely downed by a missile, although every ship in the U.S. Task Force deployed in the Persian Gulf emptied its conventional armaments to destroy it.

News of the alien involvement in the Persian Gulf War was first revealed when Pentagon Intelligence reports of the U.S. Armed Forces performance were partially disclosed in Washington for security reasons, much of the sensitive information is still classified TOP SECRET.

The hunt for the UFO debris was reportedly delayed untill the memorial day weekend, when President Bush issued an executive order to recover the downed spacecraft. Intelligence analysts are relying on space satellite. Transmissions of the Persian Gulf to race the whereabouts of the UFO debris.

The General and President Bush certainly got their UFOs!

Von Braun didn't need to see any aliens or alien crashed ship.
Von Braun built the Tesla space ships.
That was the reason Hitler sent Von Braun to replace Willy Ley in the New Mexico
Rocket Society after Ley defected.
To build the Tesla space ship Von Braun needed two force potential or the p2 project.
As Tesla said a force from above, for hover, and a side force to propel.
So Von Braun knew nothing of aliens and others surely didn't know what von Braun
knew of the Tesla space ship so they must be getting data from a source unknown.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Von Braun didn't need to see any aliens or alien crashed ship.
Von Braun built the Tesla space ships.
That was the reason Hitler sent Von Braun to replace Willy Ley in the New Mexico
Rocket Society after Ley defected.
To build the Tesla space ship Von Braun needed two force potential or the p2 project.
As Tesla said a force from above, for hover, and a side force to propel.
So Von Braun knew nothing of aliens and others surely didn't know what von Braun
knew of the Tesla space ship so they must be getting data from a source unknown.

You are just so wrong again. Von Braun have nothing to with any Tesla ships whatsoever. As i said, this is your own speculation / fantasy, with nothing to back it up.

Go back and read my post again.

en.wikipedia.org...

Dr. Von Braun explained how he and unnamed associates had been taken to the crash site after the bulk of the military personnel had left the scene. They did a quick once over of the site, Van Braun stated. He related how the exterior of the space craft was not metal as we know it, but appeared to be made of something biological, like skin.

McClelland's only thought at the time was that he was being told that the craft was made of something "alive."

And yes, there were alien bodies which were being kept in a medical tent near the UFO. The beings were small, very frail, and reptilian in nature. Von Braun compared their skin to rattlesnakes that he and his group had encountered at White Sands.

Von Braun was puzzled by the nature of the debris. The material was very thin, aluminum colored, similar to chewing gum wrapping, according to the scientist.

The description of the craft's interior was bizarre; it was very bare of instrumentation, as if the creatures and the craft were of a single unit.

Von Braun did see alien bodies and the crashed alien spacecraft.

en.wikipedia.org...

Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr[1] von Braun (March 23, 1912 – June 16, 1977) was a German-American rocket scientist, engineer, space architect, and one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in Germany and the United States during and after World War II. A one-time member of the Nazi party and a commissioned SS officer, von Braun would later be regarded as the preeminent rocket engineer of the 20th century in his role with the United States civilian space agency NASA.[2]

In his 20s and early 30s, von Braun was the central figure in Germany's pre-war rocket development programme, responsible for the design and realization of the deadly V-2 combat rocket during World War II. After the war, he and some of his rocket team were taken to the U.S. as part of the then-secret Operation Paperclip. In 1955, ten years after entering the country, von Braun became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

Von Braun worked on the US Army intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM) program before his group was assimilated by NASA, under which he served as director of the newly-formed Marshall Space Flight Center and as the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon.[3] According to one NASA source, he is "without doubt, the greatest rocket scientist in history. His crowning achievement ... was to lead the development of the Saturn V booster rocket that helped land the first men on the Moon in July 1969."[4] He received the 1975 National Medal of Science.

Von Braun was a rocket scientist who helped NASA to reach the Moon. And no, Hitler did not sent him to the United States. You misunderstood something here. Hitler wanted to invade and take over the rest of the world. Hitler was not interested to send his own scientists to his enemies. Hitler lost WWII, were Soviet troops, U.S. soldiers and the rest of the allies finally invaded Germany, and Hitler and his Nazi soldiers were finally defeated.
Just after WWII ended, the US Government spared the German scientists as part of 'Operation Paperclip', and let these German scientists work for the United States, were Von Braun was one of them.

www.nasa.gov...

Perhaps the most audacious vision of the time was Project Orion, a top-secret project funded by the Department of Defense’s Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA, known today as DARPA). Project Orion was a concept for an interplanetary spaceship powered by nuclear explosions. It attracted top physicists and mathematicians from around the country, including Theodore B. Taylor and Freeman Dyson, whose son George Dyson wrote Project Orion: The True Story of the Atomic Spaceship in 2002.

Project Orion quickly lost out to chemical propulsion systems as the U.S. geared up to send humans into space quickly in order to keep pace with the Soviets. In addition to the difficulty of selling the idea of exploding hydrogen bombs to propel a spacecraft, growing awareness about nuclear fallout radiation and its associated public health hazards led to a dramatic shift in attitudes toward nuclear energy and safety. The 1963 Treaty Banning Nuclear Weapon Tests in the Atmosphere, in Outer Space and under Water (also known as the Limited Test Ban Treaty) effectively marked the end of Project Orion as a viable concept.

Project Orion was only a vision about the theory of interplanetary spaceship powered by nuclear explosions. That idea was never used. It stayed on theory level only.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Von Braun built the Tesla space ships.

Von Braun never built any Tesla spaceships. But i will give you a hint: 4 other German scientists Viktor Schauberger, Rudolf Schreiber, Andreas Epp and Dr. Richard Miethe tried to create Nazi UFOs www.youtube.com... www.naziufos.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

"The Nazi party had a secret flying disc already off of the drawing board and flying and it was capable of 1200 miles an hour. Vertical take-off, 90ƒ changes, much like a helicopter, and of course was far superior to anything the Allies powers had at that time. Secondly they also had another craft about to be up and going it was capable of doing 2500 miles per hours, which was double the original. Not only did it have the characteristics of the original craft, but it also had a laser weapon aboard it which capable of penetrating four inches of armour. Needless to say that really spooked the allied forces into making a redemptive attempt against Von Braun and bringing him … into a state of capitulation." (6)

Bulgarian Physicist Vladimir Terziski also wrote the following about these mystery craft. "According to Renato Vesco … Germany was sharing a great deal of the advances in weaponry with their allies the Italians during the war. At the Fiat experimental facility at Lake La Garda, a facility that fittingly bore the name of Air Marshall Hermann Goering, the Italians were experimenting with numerous advanced weapons, rockets and airplanes, created in Germany. In a similar fashion, the Germans kept a close contact with the Japanese military establishment and were supplying it with many advanced weapons. I have discovered for example a photo of a copy of the manned version of the V-1 - the Reichenberg - produced in Japan by Mitsubishi. The best fighter in the world, the push-pull twin propeller Dornier-335 was duplicated at the Kawashima works."This appears to be the extent of information that can be verified to a degree. However there is much more that `fits' within the known facts, but cannot be verified independently and therefore may well be fiction portrayed as fact. That said, much of the following information does flow with the themes explored further in the subsequent chapters of this book.Claims have also been made that Nazi Occult societies were involved in the development of such unconventional saucer craft. One such, the `Vril Society' was allegedly `channelling' messages from an alien civilisation in the Aldebaran solar system and planned to develop a craft that could make physical contact with the civilisation there. This may or may not be true; but there was certainly a high level of occult activity in mid-Europe at that time, and no doubt organisations did exist then with unconventional beliefs just as they do today. Whatever the truth of this, by 1934 the Vril Society had apparently developed its first UFO shaped aircraft, known as the Vril 1, which was propelled by an anti-gravity effect. (This was the same year as Viktor Schauberger discussed his flying disk ideas with Hitler.)

The society then allegedly went on to develop this craft, and later - and again allegedly - produced the RFC-2. This craft was apparently 16 feet long and fitted with an improved propulsion system and for the first time, magnetic impulse steering. Interestingly, when in flight, it reportedly produced colour effects normally associated with UFOs.Yet the RFC-2 was largely ignored with only the SS showing an interest in the Vril Society's work. An inner organisation of the SS then set up its own SSE-4 department to develop new alternative technologies to ensure Germany no longer had to be dependent on external sources of energy and it began work on its own version of the RFC or Vril.

The Nazi UFO was allegedly capable of flying 2,500 mph, and not 300,000 mph as you previously claimed. The Nazi UFO was allegedly tested only few times.
Hitler's vision was to make superior 'crafts' to win the battle against the allies. But Hitler never got that far, as he lost the war.

And how did the Nazi's got the idea to try create Nazi UFOs? You see, aliens from other starsystems have visited Earth for thousands of years. So my guess is that the Nazi's may have got the idea to try create Nazi UFOs, because they knew that UFOs and aliens have been sighted and encountered since the ancient times.

reply to post by A51Watcher


Hello
I was googling pics of picasos work and found that google has news archives (new to me:@@
As soon as i saw it I remembered this site.. I spent about 20minutes searching ats for this thread before googling above top secret roswell microfiche archive newspaper library wedding anything I could remember from your OP.
Here's a link to google news. I went in and found a few papers that were in circulation around that time, I started looking and quickly gave up! It just seems such a daunting task! I don't really know enough about this topic and wouldn't know where to start.... honestly, if you find any newspapers in there that seem worth the search, you can u2u me the links and I'll lend a hand sifting through them. Like I say, I just dunno where to start!
I must commend you on this task and this thread. Very interesting read.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
A space ship that no one on Earth knows anything about.
This is rich.
Play it for all its worth.

I have a surprise for you 'TeslaandLyne' www.youtube.com... www.ironsky.net... www.ironsky.net... The Sci-Fi comedy movie 'Iron Sky' will be on movie theatres during 2011 www.youtube.com... www.youtube.com... This science fiction comedy 'Iron Sky' is about some damn' Nazi's who escaped with their Nazi UFOs to the Moon, and planning attack on the allies on Earth during the year 2018.

Well, back to the real world: It doesn't change the fact that UFOs and aliens have been sighted and encountered since the ancient times, but i did a little bit more research about Nazi UFO subject www.angelfire.com... and i am shocked to realize that there are actually reports about Nazi bases, not only on Antarctica, but even reports of Nazi base on the Moon! I couldn't believe my eyes when i realized to read about it from that 'angelfire' link. I don't know how much truth there is about Nazi base on the Moon, but i think i will do more research on this matter. Thanks 'TeslaandLyne' for bringing this up.

Well when you realize that Tesla made gravity, concentrated gravity, and not anti gravity
in any way all the cards of natures unknowns will fall into place.
The source of gravity for the Sun and planets have more to do with shocking the space
we live in than just the mass reaction.
In any case the force accumulator of the Tesla coil antenna is apparently a mimic of
natures forces at least enough for lift to high altitudes and at attaining great speed.
And along with shocking its surrounding air into illumination and black light radiation
as well.
Nothing has changed since the early days of the Foo ships in Germany which my pet
idea was a VW Bug, the Hitler people's car, outfitted with the Tesla gravity generator
to become the peoples airship.
Something perhaps un acceptable for the illuminati to have lying around and thus
they promote ETs from outer space only have such ships and anything else is out
of the question.

July 16, 1945, Manhattan Project detonates first atomic bomb.
June and July 1947, Numerous UFO sightings.

TWO years.

An atomic bomb would send a HUGE signal from Earth.
Unless they can travel faster than the speed of light, they were within 1 light year from us.
Maybe living nearby or perhaps traveling nearby.

If they have spooky physics communication, and an observation station near Earth. Then their distance could be 2 light years.

Kudos to A51Watcher, great investigation. This would make a great documentary. Thanks for sharing.