"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Science becoming dogma, among other things, is discussed in this 8 part interview of Tom Bearden taped in 2001: "Applied Scalar Wave Technology - Tom Bearden interview 1 of 8"

I have come back to this video today because I'm realizing that mainstream ideas about electricity and magnetism are central to the struggle to get free energy devices understood thus successfully marketed.

Here are the notes that I took for part 1 of 8:

1. The standard electrodynamics, which standard chemistry uses, the U-1 model, the U-1 group symmetry electrodynamics - that's the standard model electrodynamics everybody uses and thought be be the greatest thing since sliced cheese - it isn't - that model assumes a flat spacetime/local spacetime.
   
2. That was falsified by general relativity - now almost 100 years ago; it also assumes no net interaction with the active vacuum.
   
3. That's been falsified in physics for almost 50 years - particularly since 1957 and the discovery of broken symmetry, and they awarded the Noble Prize to Chen Ning Yang.
   
4. So it is a limited model but unfortunately where you turn science into dogma is where you lock in on a given model and you assume your model is perfect.
   

reply to post by -PLB-


I will have to think about this one some more... But I think my response would still be that waves are quantized, and that is what we call the particle. A beam of a quantized wave is the same as a beam of quantized particles, so the detector does not distinguish between them, it records the quanta - not the interpretation of the quanta.

One quanta at a time through the single slit is still mediated by the fluid ZPE of the space around, we must remember.

The collapse is then like the vibrating string analogy, and the wave in space becomes decoherent at the point of interaction giving us measured values of the quanta. The energy in the quantum system is then not extended in space anymore, and is absorbed into the wave structure of the detector.

The width of the slit is also influencing the diffraction pattern...

ETA:

And I am pretty confident about Searl not being a hoax. It is an extremely strong claim to call people crazy or hoaxers, bringing a strong burden of proof along with the claim - especially for someone like Searl who has written a whole series of books on his understanding of physics, and has hours of video documentation, and witnesses, other documentation, etc.


Also:

I recommend Chapter Six in Larson's Case Against the Nuclear Atom entitled 'Other Names for Roses' for further discussion regarding language usage in this topic.

Originally posted by beebs
And I am pretty confident about Searl not being a hoax. It is an extremely strong claim to call people crazy or hoaxers, bringing a strong burden of proof along with the claim - especially for someone like Searl who has written a whole series of books on his understanding of physics, and has hours of video documentation, and witnesses, other documentation, etc.

Your confidence is misplaced. You can write a million books and it doesn't mean you're right, that's no measure of correctness.

I think there's some pretty strong proof to go along with the claim he's a hoaxer. He claims to be able to generate free energy, yet he was convicted of stealing power from the electric company. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to note that kind of evidence doesn't support his claim, it contradicts it.

Not only does it contradict his free energy claim, it also says something about his character. What kind of person steals? The same kind of person who lies and cheats (like a hoaxer)?

reply to post by 547000

By density I mean you can observe infinite values. For example the set of rational numbers is dense because given any fractional value, you can construct a number that is arbitrarily small in distance from any number, and there are infinite numbers in the continuum: given a value a you can construct a number (a - 1/10) or (a - 1/1000000000000000000000000000000). They are both valid and they are both rational numbers. Real numbers, of course, inherit this property; they are also dense, in fact denser. But to say something is "less dense" or "more dense" can only work if the set of elements fulfills this density property. Again, that you can only observe certain fractions shows only that the hypothesis that it is dense is not necessarily fulfilled; it's an assumption because we don't observe in practice. The particle nature explains it perfectly, but the wave nature does not: you have to make up rules that you can only observe certain harmonics; but why would this be the case if it is indeed continuous? Sound like fudging with the theory to make it fit where you want it to. What's worse is it doesn't seem to be falsifiable presently.

The particle interpretation can never explain Zero Point Energy competently. I think this is a fundamental observable phenomenon, along with cymatics, which you are not considering and which are two of my primary presuppositions in arguing for the WSM stance. I am talking about energy density of space, not rational or real numbers really... although I see the connections you are making.

Harmonics is how systems of waves work. I am not making them up. That is just a word that can be used to describe things in a wave context rather than particle context.

I recommend Chapter Six in Larson's Case Against the Nuclear Atom entitled 'Other Names for Roses' for further discussion regarding language usage in this topic.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Your confidence is misplaced. You can write a million books and it doesn't mean you're right, that's no measure of correctness.

I think there's some pretty strong proof to go along with the claim he's a hoaxer. He claims to be able to generate free energy, yet he was convicted of stealing power from the electric company. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to note that kind of evidence doesn't support his claim, it contradicts it.

Arbitrageur... I appreciate all your efforts. I can tell you really believe we are being mislead by charlatans.

However, after hundreds of hours of research into this area, I am not convinced by your shallow attempts at debunking.

You interpret the evidence that he was stealing power, because you have a presupposed belief that he is a hoaxer.

I interpret the evidence that the power company did not understand how he was able to generate electricity with the mechanisms in his home. Searl obviously knew a great deal more about electrical engineering than whoever went to check up on his meter.

Why do I interpret the evidence this way? Because of many hours of research into his claims and testimony from others who I cannot dismiss as crazy either. Why would I listen to you, when my own experience directly contradicts your claims - especially when you consistently refrain from applying yourself to your own personal research in the subject?

There are some ways you can make your opinion on these matters more influential:

1. Do research on the topic with an open mind.
2. Consider the possibility that the current model is incorrect or incomplete, and the related possibility that perhaps a person not in your personal circle of friends has figured out something you didn't know/didn't think of already.
3. Research and familiarize yourself with context (yeah, like the other crazies and hoaxers).
4. Do not listen to that voice in your head which says we are all ignorant/crazy/hoaxers/brainsfallingout/etc.
5. Do not conflate the general term of 'free energy' with 'impossible violation of physics', but rather interpret the term as 'new, clean, renewable, different, etc.' with the perpetual motion already existing in the natural world.

reply to post by beebs


Hmm, I kind of disagree with you, but maybe you're not able to explain it well enough. When I learn graduate level math, I'll be sure to check out what evidence there is for all this. Got any books you recommend that give a mathematical description of what they are talking about?

Wouldn't true perpetual motion violate the first law of thermodynamics?

reply to post by beebs
I did start going through that playlist but so far I have yet to see one thing that leads me to think he's not a hoaxer.

From my perspective over a century of perpetual motion machines and free energy devices have done more to prove the laws of physics are correct than the physicists. Without exception virtually every single person who's tried to prove the laws of physics as we know them to be wrong with a perpetual motion/ free energy machine have instead proved them right.

If you don't agree with that claim, find me a single exception instead of pointing me to a playlist of hours and hours of boring stuff.

And actually I am open minded enough to wonder if anyone has taken these NASA guys up on their offer to validate a free energy device. This is the best post I've seen on Peswiki:

NASA scientists Nelson & House willing to verify overunity electromagnetic machines

A couple of NASA scientists, Mike Nelson and Ken House, who work on the Space Shuttle project in Huntsville, Alabama have been following the free energy world for years and would like to believe that Tesla type of technology is possible that harnesses limitless energy from the environment via electromagnetic means. ...

In their spare time, they are willing to put their reputation at stake in validating bona fide electromagnetic overunity (more energy out than what was put in).

I'm as open minded as they are.

Show me something that works. So far all I've seen are thousands of claims and many devices that don't do what the proponents claim.

reply to post by 547000


In particular, this book:

Schrodinger's Universe

Most of the problems are not in the mathematics, but in the theoretical and interpretational aspects of our understanding.

Wolff does include the simple mathematics in the book as well. Nothing too complicated, as most of the math was already there.

ETA:

Wouldn't true perpetual motion violate the first law of thermodynamics?

Does the universe stop? Nature is chock full of perpetual motion.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Why do they have to violate the laws of physics?

And again, you have to be open enough to consider that your laws are not correct, or are not interpreted correctly.

Just playing with magnets and copper, and watching experiments with them, is enough for me to understand 1/2 of the SEG.

The other half comes in my personal interpretations of natural laws, namely the WSM, but Searl himself uses Newton and conventional laws to explain it, with the added intuition of his own insights and theoretical presuppositions(namely the law of the squares).

The copper/magnet dynamic in the SEG is enough to revolutionize current generators itself, regardless if the thing can fly and run 'over unity'. I don't really think that it is 'over unity', but is rather drawing heat and ZPE in the center of a toroid field, and radiating it towards the edges of the disc as useable electricity. Very similar to putting a paddlewheel in a river.

Keep watching the videos, study the composition of the components. It isn't a hoax, that is the easy way out. There is a Searl Effect, whatever it may be, that is unconventional and possibly of great interest to the survival of our species that we understand whether it is viable or not.

Why would he spend the last years of his life doing such a thing? Why do all the people he encounters respect him and vouch for his authenticity? Not everyone is a hoaxer.

Originally posted by beebs
Just playing with magnets and copper, and watching experiments with them, is enough for me to understand 1/2 of the SEG.

The copper/magnet dynamic in the SEG is enough to revolutionize current generators itself, regardless if the thing can fly and run 'over unity'. I don't really think that it is 'over unity', but is rather drawing heat and ZPE in the center of a toroid field, and radiating it towards the edges of the disc as useable electricity. Very similar to putting a paddlewheel in a river.

What exactly do they do with magnets and copper that convinces you? What it, for you, the most convincing video, and why? I am an electrical engineer myself, and I have experimented with all kind of electro motor setups back in the day. But didn't see anything special in any of the videos I watched (not many, the one you linked and maybe 2-3 more).

Originally posted by beebs
Why do they have to violate the laws of physics?

They don't. The example I use is the Atmos clock, it runs on air. And it doesn't violate the laws of physics. The Atmos 2 went into production around 1939, 7 years before Searl built his machine in 1946.

And Searl now claims that his device doesn't violate the laws of physics.

There is a Searl Effect, whatever it may be, that is unconventional and possibly of great interest to the survival of our species that we understand whether it is viable or not.

Fine, just show the evidence supporting this claim. All you can say is "watch hours of videos" which I started to do and there's absolutely no evidence at all in any of the videos I've watched so far.

Why would he spend the last years of his life doing such a thing?

Why not?

Why do all the people he encounters respect him and vouch for his authenticity?

Perhaps because they just fell off the turnip truck?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cfb8bdb77e7d.jpg[/atsimg]
Or because they believe his cute little saying that it's only impossible because we think it is?

Or because they're fascinated by magnets because they don't really understand the physics of electromagnetism?

Look, I'm not trying to suppress Searl's or anybody else's technology. In fact I'd love to have my own SEG if it works. But the only thing the Searl videos have shown me so far is what I already knew, that people who just fell off the turnip truck have a fascination with magnets because they don't really understand how they work.

People have trouble with much simpler concepts. There's a guy trying to build a machine something like this in his garage because he thinks it should work.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e4107efcffb.jpg[/atsimg]
(Actually they've cleverly hidden the batteries in that one to make it appear as though it works).

If people can fail to understand why such a simple mechanical machine like this won't work, it's a lot easier to understand why they are so gullible about things with magnets which are harder to understand.

reply to post by -PLB-


The SEG uses the force('eddy current') that is created by the interaction between a magnet and copper when they are moving. Like this:



The magnetic rollers are also made out of specific layers similar to the central disc. The rollers are magnetically attracted to the neodymium magnets in the center of the disk, and there is also a manufactured 'magnetic material' in the central disk. But since the copper is the outermost layer of the central disk, there is a precise gap between the magnets in the rollers and the magnets in the central disk. When stationary, the rollers are clinging to the copper, but once they start rotating they are pushed away from the copper, no friction anymore.



In this one you can see the layers in the central disk:



Special magnetic material in the middle, teflon, neodymium, then copper. Pressed together in specific ratios to each other (because of the Law of the Squares according to Searl).



This entire interview is great, here is part 1:



And of course, if you haven't seen The John Searl Story, that is the best produced documentary so far.

www.johnsearlstory.com...

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I'm posting this because of Ash's focus on the vortex, and, the thoughts he expresses about the nature of particles.

As Arb and others have said, we would do well if we don't hijack and mutilate our common dictionary of English language. In view of this, may I remind that
en.wikipedia.org...

A vortex (plural: vortices) is a spinning, often turbulent, flow of fluid

The vortex creates an illusion.

Please explain how swirling liquid creates an illusion (even if it's only happening to your person)

The spin creates stay-putness. (The static inertia of mass. The seeming solidity of the particle.)

Here again, a stupid attempt to rewrite the dictionary. Why on Earth? Can't you look up what spin is?

The vortex has no surface; it just gets thinner and thinner: The vortex extends into infinity.

See above.

Energy is not a thing; it's more like a thought.

I invite you to jump out of a high rise building and observe how your potential energy is turning into kinetic energy. Just before the impact, you should contemplate how it's all like a thought. This experience will enrich all of humanity, I promise.

So, all we really have is the movement.

Some people also have lots of ignorance they have no chance of escaping

The consciousness underlying particles is indivisible.

To the author of this -- indeed you can't divide whatever you don't possess.

And, my hovercraft is full of eels.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Enjoy yourself.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Enjoy yourself.

Oh, you didn't have to /*blush*/

Originally posted by beebs
The SEG uses the force('eddy current') that is created by the interaction between a magnet and copper when they are moving. Like this:

Its a nice effect (had not seen it before), but I read the description and don't really see how it proves any of Searls claims. The description even says:

Energy is converted into heat.

Isn't Searl claiming the exact opposite? Ambient heat is converted into (kinetic) energy? Why do you believe that claim to be true?

The magnetic rollers are also made out of specific layers similar to the central disc. The rollers are magnetically attracted to the neodymium magnets in the center of the disk, and there is also a manufactured 'magnetic material' in the central disk. But since the copper is the outermost layer of the central disk, there is a precise gap between the magnets in the rollers and the magnets in the central disk. When stationary, the rollers are clinging to the copper, but once they start rotating they are pushed away from the copper, no friction anymore.

In this one you can see the layers in the central disk:

Special magnetic material in the middle, teflon, neodymium, then copper. Pressed together in specific ratios to each other (because of the Law of the Squares according to Searl).

So the benefit is no friction? I don't think its that hard to create a setup without friction, think of Maglev trains. What particular application could his setup have?

This entire interview is great, here is part 1:

Do you have a transcript? I have a very hard to time to hear what he is saying.

From "Message from Searl Magnetics Inc":

The SEG in Professor Searl’s words:

The Searl Effect Generator (SEG) is a self-contained, electrical power generator,
able to produce clean and sustainable energy. It is a magnetic prime mover that
operates without friction and can supply electrical power to suit both home and
industry.

The core technology behind the SEG is referred to as the "Searl Effect" which
enables natural ambient sources of energy to be converted into useful electrical
power.

The SEG is based on magnetic fields that generates a continual motion of
magnetized rollers around magnetized rings that in turn produces electrical
currents and under certain conditions, a unique gravito-magnetic force is also
generated.

Electricity can be produced as pulsed DC or AC and hence, the SEG can be
utilized to supply power to existing electrical grids or supply it on a
decentralized bases, drive electric motors for cars or ships. It can be scaled it up
and designed to take full advantage of its gravito-magnetic side-effect for
propulsion; a condition exhibited by the SEG in the super conductive state.

This is the basis of the Inversed Gravity Vehicle (IGV) that can provide for a
system of domestic and space transportation that is unmatched by any other
means. During normal operation the SEG generates very high electrical
potentials that ionizes the air and incidentally kills airborne bacteria and viruses.

The SEG functions by creating negative ions to its surrounding environment,
causing loosely attached contaminants to be removed from the air by causing
them to drop to the ground while it produces useful energy.

This is the health benefit of the SEG that can be used to purify and cool the air
that is as refreshing as spring water; ideally suited for hospitals but can be used
just as well for homes and work places.

The SEG is a converter of nature's ambient sources of unlimited energy and it
does so without the use of fuels as it is commonly known.
Anything that can be run electrically can be powered by the SEG without creating
pollution, nor will it add more energy than what is present in our Earth's
atmosphere or biosphere.

If we the people of the World transition to this marvelous technology, we would
eliminate pollution from internal combustion and various other methods of
heating that are clearly problematic and inefficient ways to produce
electrical energy.

From "How the SEG Operates and Eliminates Radiation":

Gravity is an implosive force which travels inward and cools. Radiation is an explosive force traveling outward and heats. Heat always seeks cool. Low frequencies are cooler than higher frequencies.

The Searl Effect Generator operates at an extremely low frequency and converts higher frequencies like nuclear radiation to a lower frequency which resonates with the SEG.

As the SEG eliminates the half-life of radioactivity, the reaction creates excess electricity which we can practically use for energy to power things. There is limitless background radiation in the universe, therefore the SEG will run forever because that IS its fuel source.

Mainstream science has yet to discern the dynamics of positive and negative electricity.

The rate at which a stable or relatively stationary particle heats will determine how much positive electricity is generated as the equal and opposite reaction.That reaction heats wires and burns out machines and the system looses energy while gaining weight.

The rate at which a radioactive particle cools will determine how much electricity
is put out as an equal and opposite reaction. But this negative electricity has the
inverse reaction. There is a drop in temperature until superconductivity is
achieved at which point there is a dramatic loss in weight causing the system to
gain energy.

This is a demonstration of the MOCK UP, not the Prototype.
www.youtube.com...

What you are seeing in this video is 8 pounds of weight turning 200 orbital RPM
and 14,500 Centripetal RPM all from 1.5 volts @.06 amps.

The difference is that the mock up sends an electric charge TO the magnets
which makes them spin.
This is to demonstrate the characteristics of spin forces and magnetic
waveforms on the oscilloscope.

The prototype doesn't need the coils to keep the magnets spinning.
The SEG runs at an idle speed of 2000 orbital RPM and 145,000 Centripetal RPM.
The coils on the prototype are to collect the energy FROM the magnets.

Mock up = Electricity From coils.
Prototype = Electricity To coils.

The SEG is an open system like a hydroelectric dam.
In this case, we are controlling the flow of electrons rather than water.

The reservoir is the unmagnetized rare earth material Neodymium.
The dam itself is the dielectric material Teflon.
The electrons will accelerate from the rare earth material in an organized fashion
through the teflon like water shooting out of a pressurized and controlled hole
in a dam.
The teflon can only hold back so much electron pressure just like a dam can only
hold so much water pressure.
The electrons will pass through the teflon into the ferrite permanent magnet
layer where they are accelerated outward in a ring. The magnets act as the diode
and one way valve.
The electrons are accelerated into the copper layer.
The copper acts as the emitter for the electric current which is now a constant
flow.
We place coils around the rings as to collect the available electricity.

While neutralizing nuclear radiation and biohazardous waste, we are able to
power homes, cars, hospitals, villages and anything we use today.

The radioactive particles are attracted to the neodymium core. The magnets
orbiting the stator of the SEG are spinning on a Centripetal axis at an excess of
145,000 RPM for every 2000 orbital RPM. And that's just at idle speed.

The centripetal spin of the magnets on the SEG will rotate well over 1 million RPM.
That spin is so great that the radioactive heat from each given particle is thrown
outward from a reactionary centrifugal force.

The rate at which each given radioactive particle cools is astronomical thereby
creating an equal and opposite exponential reaction of useable electric current.

This is not a question of physics anymore. We know how the device operates. It's
a question of electrical engineering.

Show me the circuit in a hydroelectric dam for a given drop of water and I'll show
you the circuit for an electron in the SEG.

The answer is that you can't because that water drop evaporates into a different
form which becomes part of the whole system.

At the quantum level, the water drop disperses to become part of all other water
drops which then condense in the clouds and then rain into the reservoir.

Nature is a self perpetuating system.
The SEG operates in the same fashion as an open source system following the
laws of Nature.

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't apply to a hydroelectric dam
therefore it doesn't apply to Searl Technology or the SEG.

This is a new era of clean technology based on implosion, gravity, and creation
of life rather than explosion, nuclear reactions, destruction and death.

Another thing I remembered is this; if you believe there are no discrete particles, how do you explain the Hall effect?

Originally posted by 547000
Another thing I remembered is this; if you believe there are no discrete particles, how do you explain the Hall effect?

Before the Hall effect, one might want to explain the oil drop experiment in which charge was demonstrated to quantize, in the specific sense that you can only have an integer number of electrons deposited on each individual drop.