Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by seeashrink


Well answered.

If you knew me better, you'd take "fairly intelligent" as a high compliment, lol.

Despite my criticism, I have a good deal of respect for you personally, and must beg your indulgence when I slip into using a broader "you" on occasion without flagging it...a dificulty with english.

While I understand the logic of undercover work, it doesn't change the fact that it is based upon lies and betrayal and requires persons who are at ease and adept with lying. I know how hard it is to accept bald truths, but there it is. It took a very long while for me to accept that in point of fact, as a Vietnam combat veteran, I was in truth a babykiller. I, personally, never killed directly, but my actions make me as culpable any who pulled a trigger or dropped a bomb.

In a similar manner, no matter how good or pure you yourself are, you share culpability whith those who abuse the citizenry to a certain extant.

Police work is difficult work, and highly stressful. But so is pretty much everything. So I won't cut any slack, if anything I must hold police to a higher standard due to their higher ability to inflict harm.

One of the bennies of being an Apache taught in the old ways is that I have a different view of the world than most, and can effect things in ways that are hard for others to understand. So when I balance things like wrongs, I do so in ways that are effective to my purpose but difficult for others to discern. So I have no need of others to protect me or mine or redress wrongs done. At this point in my life only fools or ignorant people dare disturb my peace.

Originally posted by hawkiye
And that somehow absolves them from harming honest citizens who have harmed no one?

What will absolve you of falsely accusing the many good cops that have done no harm, and never intend to? Whether they are in the majority or minority, they ARE out there, and they deserve better.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Actually statistically it is more dangerous to drive on a public highway then it is to be a cop. Sorry to burst your high opinion of your courage but average citizens take more risk just driving to work then you do on the job.

Everyone shoulders that risk. It isn't an occupation, it is essentially a requirement for modern life. Driving has become so pervasive in this culture as to fall into the same category as disease when it comes to endangerment of life.

That said, highway patrol officers have a MUCH higher risk of injury than ANY civilian, besides possibly a truck or delivery driver, but even then I doubt it.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Maybe if cops took responsibility for THEIR actions and stopped harming people who have harmed no one and and blaming them for it, people might stop bitching about it.

Maybe if civilians would stop blaming EVERY cop on the street for the actions of the broken minority, we wouldn't have to have these disgusting cop bash threads. If you're going to bash cops, focus on the ones that deserve bashing.



It's easy for everyone to place blame on the cops for enforcing the laws they don't like... even though the responsibility for changing those laws falls on the shoulders of those placing the blame.

Many cops do not agree with all of the laws they have to enforce, and they WISH that the populace would get off its lazy ass and actually change them. Do you think all cops ENJOY constantly wasting their time giving BS tickets based upon BS laws? That's absolutely demoralizing.

Nearly every cop I have spoken with regarding this issue has expressed his/her distaste with some of the laws they must enforce. Do you think that they are just going to run away from enforcing the rest of the laws because they don't like some of them? Do you think all of the cops going on strike to protest these laws, and letting people rob and murder would actually change anything? No. They need to be changed through proper legislative process.




Should cops stand up and protest against these garbage laws? YES, MOST DEFINITELY. In fact, some are... look at LEAP, and the groups of officers openly protesting against the red light cameras. These cops not only do their jobs, but they are proactive about protecting the rights of the citizens. Are THOSE cops evil pigs as well?

I have a friend who just retired from the sheriffs office, he is a nice guy but most of the cops I have ran into are complete ego maniacs and guys who couldn't make it in the army if they tried. All gun ho and no brains. Cops around here don't protect and serve. They just serve out tickets and bust kids for drinking and taking pills, never mind they are to stupid to take down any large drug dealers.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
I have a friend who just retired from the sheriffs office, he is a nice guy but most of the cops I have ran into are complete ego maniacs and guys who couldn't make it in the army if they tried. All gun ho and no brains. Cops around here don't protect and serve. They just serve out tickets and bust kids for drinking and taking pills, never mind they are to stupid to take down any large drug dealers.

Most of the cops I associate with are the exact opposite... the reason is that I associate with good cops, and good cops usually associate with other good cops. Bad cops don't get invited to good cop birthday parties.

reply to post by apacheman


Wow!! You have just became my most respected person on ATS. Most of the replies I have recieved here on ATS I suspect are from barely post pubesents who have very little life experience to be sharing their wisdom with me. I even said in one post that I would love to hear from someone with some age on them. Sir, I proudly take your critisims with great study.
I too am a military vet but I was blessed to see no action even though there were conflicts going on while I was in. I believe that you are right in that your culture gives you a unique insight and perspective. You are right, I share some guilt by association, but I can only take responsibility for and make changes for my little patch of earth that I work.
If you don't mind, I would be honored to add you as a friend. You fill free to rake me over the coals anytime. I may not always agree, but I will certainly give gravity to your opinions. Thank you so much for your service in a difficult time for this nation. I was 1A when I graduated high school and just knew that I was going to Nam and they shut it down just in time. I was trully blessed, and I was trully scared.
I don't know why, but I feel a connection to you.
Thanks again,
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


You honor me.

You feel a connection perhaps because I've followed your posts for a long while now, even though I seldom comment. Much of what you've shared has given me food for thought, and given me insights to your work culture that I value even in disagreement. On occasion I've been moved to ....try to sense the shape of your spirit, I guess is as good a way as any of expressing it. Perhaps you've felt it.

Your friendship is accepted.

reply to post by apacheman


Thank you. I'm a whole 1/8 th Cherokee, perhaps that has something to do with it. Who knows. I look forward to hearing from you on the boards
Seeashrink

Originally posted by apacheman
While I understand the logic of undercover work, it doesn't change the fact that it is based upon lies and betrayal and requires persons who are at ease and adept with lying.

This is true... there are many times in life where one is forced to use an evil means to reach a good end. Sometimes the evil means is also used to reach an evil end, but that depends on the one making the decision.

Originally posted by apacheman
It took a very long while for me to accept that in point of fact, as a Vietnam combat veteran, I was in truth a babykiller. I, personally, never killed directly, but my actions make me as culpable any who pulled a trigger or dropped a bomb.

My father is a vietnam vet also... he worked on avionics, and so never actually pulled the trigger himself. He still feels conflicted about the time he spent there.

Originally posted by apacheman
In a similar manner, no matter how good or pure you yourself are, you share culpability whith those who abuse the citizenry to a certain extant.

Police work is difficult work, and highly stressful. But so is pretty much everything. So I won't cut any slack, if anything I must hold police to a higher standard due to their higher ability to inflict harm.

I agree, but those that do uphold that higher standard, should also be given higher praise. VERY few people are able to resist the temptation that power offers, and those that are, truly are a value to the human race.

I personally have spoken with a lot of good cops about bad cops, and they are walking a fine line every day... they try to protect the citizenry when they can, but if they step over that line, they are then ejected and are no longer there to help.

People often say that the good cops that stand by are just as guilty as the bad... but if the good cops weren't there, how much worse would the bad ones be? There are checks and balances in all aspects of life. If one cop is an evil SOB, I would like to think that there is a good cop there acting as regulator, making sure that he doesn't throw that extra blow, or pull the trigger on that taser one more time than necessary.

No matter how much we try to stop it, we will always have those willing to abuse power... the only defense we have is people in the same position of power that are willing to stand up for those being abused, and that is precisely what many good cops do every day.

One thing that people don't often consider... the bad cops aren't the ones that have trouble sleeping at night.

reply to post by iandh

What will absolve you of falsely accusing the many good cops that have done no harm, and never intend to? Whether they are in the majority or minority, they ARE out there, and they deserve better.

I do not need to be absolved. I have said nothing that is false my statements are fact. Every cop who has written a ticket or arrested someone for a victimless crime is guilty of harming people who have harmed no one and intruding on thier lives, extorting money out of them, and imprisoning them all against thier will. Are you a cop? If so then you once again illustrate how cops blindly harm people and think they have done nothing wrong.

Everyone shoulders that risk. It isn't an occupation, it is essentially a requirement for modern life. Driving has become so pervasive in this culture as to fall into the same category as disease when it comes to endangerment of life.

That said, highway patrol officers have a MUCH higher risk of injury than ANY civilian, besides possibly a truck or delivery driver, but even then I doubt it.

The point is cops always make a big deal out of how dangerous their job is as if they are some kind of heroes for risking such danger. When in fact it is less dangerous then many things people do every day. They use it to try and reinforce thier high opinions of themselves that they are special and a cut above everyone else and it is not true.

Maybe if civilians would stop blaming EVERY cop on the street for the actions of the broken minority, we wouldn't have to have these disgusting cop bash threads. If you're going to bash cops, focus on the ones that deserve bashing.

Anyone who harms people who have never harmed anyone else deserves to hear the truth of thier actions.

It's easy for everyone to place blame on the cops for enforcing the laws they don't like... even though the responsibility for changing those laws falls on the shoulders of those placing the blame.

Many cops do not agree with all of the laws they have to enforce, and they WISH that the populace would get off its lazy ass and actually change them. Do you think all cops ENJOY constantly wasting their time giving BS tickets based upon BS laws? That's absolutely demoralizing.

Nearly every cop I have spoken with regarding this issue has expressed his/her distaste with some of the laws they must enforce. Do you think that they are just going to run away from enforcing the rest of the laws because they don't like some of them? Do you think all of the cops going on strike to protest these laws, and letting people rob and murder would actually change anything? No. They need to be changed through proper legislative process.

And here we get to the cruxt of the matter. The cops think they are not responsible for thier actions because someone told them it was the law. And when several people come on threads like this and show them the actual laws and case sites that what they are doing is not law, but color of law, unlawful, illegal, and unconstitutional not one of them responds to it except to whine and complain about cop bashing or everyone is a criminal that is complaining, or delusional et al.

They are the enablers of tyranny they are willing to enforce tyranny they know is wrong just for a pay check, and massage thier conscience that they are doing nothing wrong by ignoring the truth, and actual law, and Supreme Court rulings etc.

Hats off to the few who have stood up and stopped harming their fellow citizens, and who have joined orgs like LEAP as I have mentioned in my earlier posts. To bad it is but a small few. If thousands started joining them and stopped enforcing victimless crimes, then they would begin to get some respect.

The political system and the justice system are in serious disarray and that leaves it up the the ultimate masters of government; the people. Cops are people to and they can stop this but they refuse to even consider they are in the wrong and just repeat the brainwash BS they received at the academy or elsewhere that anyone who complains must be a criminal and they are heroes beyond reproach for enforcing said tyranny blah blah.

Originally posted by iandh

Originally posted by hawkiye
And that somehow absolves them from harming honest citizens who have harmed no one?

What will absolve you of falsely accusing the many good cops that have done no harm, and never intend to? Whether they are in the majority or minority, they ARE out there, and they deserve better.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Actually statistically it is more dangerous to drive on a public highway then it is to be a cop. Sorry to burst your high opinion of your courage but average citizens take more risk just driving to work then you do on the job.

Everyone shoulders that risk. It isn't an occupation, it is essentially a requirement for modern life. Driving has become so pervasive in this culture as to fall into the same category as disease when it comes to endangerment of life.

That said, highway patrol officers have a MUCH higher risk of injury than ANY civilian, besides possibly a truck or delivery driver, but even then I doubt it.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Maybe if cops took responsibility for THEIR actions and stopped harming people who have harmed no one and and blaming them for it, people might stop bitching about it.

Maybe if civilians would stop blaming EVERY cop on the street for the actions of the broken minority, we wouldn't have to have these disgusting cop bash threads. If you're going to bash cops, focus on the ones that deserve bashing.



It's easy for everyone to place blame on the cops for enforcing the laws they don't like... even though the responsibility for changing those laws falls on the shoulders of those placing the blame.

Many cops do not agree with all of the laws they have to enforce, and they WISH that the populace would get off its lazy ass and actually change them. Do you think all cops ENJOY constantly wasting their time giving BS tickets based upon BS laws? That's absolutely demoralizing.

Nearly every cop I have spoken with regarding this issue has expressed his/her distaste with some of the laws they must enforce. Do you think that they are just going to run away from enforcing the rest of the laws because they don't like some of them? Do you think all of the cops going on strike to protest these laws, and letting people rob and murder would actually change anything? No. They need to be changed through proper legislative process.




Should cops stand up and protest against these garbage laws? YES, MOST DEFINITELY. In fact, some are... look at LEAP, and the groups of officers openly protesting against the red light cameras. These cops not only do their jobs, but they are proactive about protecting the rights of the citizens. Are THOSE cops evil pigs as well?

edit on 23-1-2011 by iandh because: (no reason given)

The majority of what you have spit out is total bull#. Yes, crap laws should go through a proper legislative process. Problem is, the people have been robbed of their powers over Government, due in part to your enforcement. Now what?

Your job is to protect life, individuality, property and liberty. You and your cronies have stripped us of all of thee above due to the enforcement of laws that legalize plunder and you claim a disdain for such laws? Is it really difficult, when you have enough people behind you, to just refuse when our own legislators go rogue and ignore the people for their benefit? C'mon, even our legislators are not above the law nor are they above the people. You are LAW ENFORCEMENT and it is your duty, when there are those who legalize unlawfulness for their benefit, to administer proper punishment. You have failed to do so. Many have pointed this out, many will continue to point this out and until you listen to those whom you serve (yes, you work for me, not vice versa) you will continue to breed this hostility upon yourself and your cronies.

America is equivalent to that of a concentration camp and cops are the Nazis that make it so. You are all enablers of plunder, tyranny, thievery, rape, murder etc. and instead of listening to those that you are to be serving, you choose to justify yourselves under the guise of protection. Your morals tell you that you are in the right. I am certain that there are thousands of murderers, rapists, thieves’ etc. that would tell a similar story of how their morals encouraged their actions. In the minds of a majority, does this make those criminals, who interfere the liberty, property and the lives of others right? How are you going to justify yourself now?

Yes, you are following orders from a superior figure. What gives that superior figure, or any other superior figure, the right to regulate my life, my liberty, my individuality and my property? If this is a free country, I should be able to do what I wish as long as I do not interfere with the liberty and lives of others. Correct? So, if I am constantly forced to answer to you and the others who were entrusted to secure my Life, liberty, individuality and property, how does this imply liberty?

Reality is, law enforcement is in the wrong and as long as you choose to ignore the signs and justify your evils, there is a guaranteed backlash. Maybe it is time to check your morals and earn you desired respect!

My girlfriend and I were pulled over last night. Apparently the light above the license plate was out on her car.
Cop was nice enough, but I didn't see why it took him 20 minutes to let us go. We waited until another officer came and the first officer let us go before the second even parked his car.

It was strange, but mostly just a waste of our time. Also it made us too late to go to the pool hall we were on our way to that closed in 30 minutes.

you know this entire thread is nonsensical. nothing will ever be resolved, if anything it will give homeland security one more avenue to pursue in their quest to dragnet the population and thrust their authority up our asses.

I really pray they are reading and listening and comprehending what we the people are trying to get through their thick self absorbent skulls. although i know they are focused like the predators they truly are and again nothing will ever change but continue getting worse until they have pulled the noose tightly around all our necks and the rugs of freedom from beneath our feet.

i do want to apologies for being such a dick. its just hard to be anything in these times but prepared to rip out the throats of those who force their will upon me and my family. i know that there is no one in this thread that has harmed me in any way shape or form and in a real life encounter i would be respectful and courteous, as long as we both remained on the same frequency.


and for all that being said. i would like to close by saying

homeland security...eat shhhht

reply to post by anumohi
Reguarding police, my brother is one. A Captain in the USAF security police. Told me that cops often carry 'evidence', like drugs, or unmarked guns, in plastic bags, in their trunks to plant on whoever they feel like. I recently was written up for someone hitting ME, and I asked the judge for a search warrant for his police car, with no warning to him. Ignored. Asked in a police station and was laughed at. My brother was a great guy, until he was murdered in the AF and now is being mimicked by a doppleganger. His police training resulted in a monster I don't know, and no longer talk to. I have dealt with many cops, and I never met an honest one, and only one judge with integrity. There is an exception to every rule.

Oh yeah, he also told me that there are many laws now passed designed specifically to give LEOs an excuse to pull over anyone they want. Like size of license plate frames, or tires or whatever. Doesn't matter. They 'no longer need a reason'. At one point, I demanded that six deputies that were assaulting me, get their supervisor. They refused, even tho that is required by law. They don't give a crap what the law is, they ARE above the law. I filed a complaint with IA, and was basically laughed at. THAT is American justice. THAT is the reason I am leaving the US. At least until they remove the Kenyan Marxist and imprison him. I strongly suspect a false flag attack to impose martial law, soon.

Wasn’t it the cops that stapled Jesus to the cross?
Wasn’t it the cops that burned all those women in Salem Mass.?
Wasn’t it the cops that cut off all those people’s heads for saying that the Earth was flat?
Wasn’t it the cops that beat the hell out of Rodney King?

Think about this. Would you arrest someone for vagrancy or loitering?
That means you would chain a human being and put him in a cage because you didn’t appreciate where he was sleeping. And then you would probably shock him because you don’t understand why he didn’t like being chained.
Or you might shoot him because you didn’t like what he was smoking. “None of your business.”

Of course people understand the need for cops, (assaults and rapes and muggings and things like that.) But, you guys go too overboard.
Keep your eyes open in case someone needs you, but lighten up man.

And if there is an accident, We’ll call, the ambulance.

Originally posted by presidentThink about this. Would you arrest someone for vagrancy or loitering?
That means you would chain a human being and put him in a cage because you didn’t appreciate where he was sleeping. And then you would probably shock him because you don’t understand why he didn’t like being chained.
Or you might shoot him because you didn’t like what he was smoking. “None of your business.”

Of course people understand the need for cops, (assaults and rapes and muggings and things like that.) But, you guys go too overboard.
Keep your eyes open in case someone needs you, but lighten up man.

And if there is an accident, We’ll call, the ambulance.

While there are some bad police out there remember this; we "the people" make the laws through our elected officials they like Soldiers do not set/make policy they enforce it.

If the public wouldn't over react every time some butt-hat does something stupid the politicians would not have the outcry needed to make more laws.

reply to post by president


I beleive that it was Roman soldiers that nailed Jesus to the cross.
I believe it was the church that burned the witches in Salem.
I believe that it was the royals and their intellectuals that beheaded those that believed the world was round
Yes, it was the cops that beat the crap out Rodney King.
One out of four is not bad.
But, your point is taken.
There are a lot of cops that need to lighten up.
Seeashrink

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


i can tell you what goes on here because this happens frequently. depending on how he ran your information if he uses a mobile data terminal it can be instantaneous or take forever. if he lets you go without receiving a return on his MDT and then 5 minutes later he get s hit that you are wanted on his computer (and it will let him know) he is deep s@#t because there is a process he has to follow. his agency has to confer with the agency of where the warrant was issued and there is a time frame. now depending on how his information is set up, it may use the radio to transmit data, it just depends. if you have a lot of radio traffic it will take a while especially if there is fire or other agencies that use their dispatch.

if he uses just a radio the dispatcher will input the information but he/she may be tied u with 10 other things and it may take a second to run or 10 minutes. now the dispatcher has to wait for the information to come back and transmit back to the officer. isnt technology great.

i had someone stopped one night and it took 30 minutes to get the information back, its a good thing i waited and not let them go because they were wanted. it just depends on where you are and if you are receiving a good signal. the officer doesnt want to be out there any longer then you do.

reply to post by Gregarious


i was USAF, Security police and this is total BS. Being a cop in the AF things are strict and there alot of good guys and commradere.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth

 

No fear, just a statement of fact if you mess with or endanger a cops family. I would think this would be common sense.
Seeashrink

and if a cop illegally follows and messes with our family, shall we do the same? does your attitude imply that the only noble option would be to do the same as you, and kill the offender? is that what u espouse? we dont love our families as much as you? you want us also to draw a gun everytime a nutcase in a position of power illegally abuses our family? i'd been in jail along time ago if i did. but for you, its ok? right? you could get away with it?

maybe its time for cops to decide whose side they are on. and no, its not the insurance lobby, its us, the people, thats whose side you should be on - not making illegal death threats after all the crap people have to put up with from you guys. there is nothing to ensure the cop tailing my wife home isnt a nutcase messing with my family illegally. if you threaten to kill citizens for doing that, are we to threaten to kill you also? you better change your tune or you should resign from the force. we need good cops who care about our people, not threatening ones, and not more violence. its a shame law enforcement attracts that type. and surf2cop guy, ur really a disgusting human being to support the murder of citizens in those vids. shame on you.