Quantum Reality

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

What's the saying - let go and let God? That's simple, but not easy, and yet, it seems to be getting easier now for some strange reason, so many the orbits of the musicof the spheres are doing something systematic, but me I think it's nothing in any one system, but something much more wholistic and even more profound, an entire universe (one song) becoming aware, not of itself as a thing, but God realized, and if that weren't strange enough, solipsistically, at least from our perspective as the human being, it seems to begin and end here, by God's own insistence that the God-Man experience be included, even as the prized pearl in the gate or the very central jewel in His crown of glory, and so we as creatures, we really are something very special, but only when we ourselves come to realize that we're nothing of ourselves and everything to God who IS the everything already always, now (or increasingly) aware of himself through us, his children made in his very image (consciousness).

It is indeed getting "easier." This one has been saying "It is time to sing" for a while now . Glad to see other systems hear the song as well.

So that we can laugh again in a pure way and in an authentic way, so that the indignity of the injustice of life cannot stifle our joy, our laughter and our love, and when I say "our" I mean yours' and mine, AND God's!

For this one, basing ones "orbit" or life, as it were, in a state of Love yields itself into the song of the heavens. Not the directed emotion love, but, a Radiant state of Love. Shining as the stars themselves Pure laughter, joy, authenticity, are all inevitabilities as a result of such a base. This one decided to curtail such things as experiencing "enlightenment," as this ones personal search for such things is less meaningful than radiating Love. To expand a bit, this one could choose what to do with this bodies time. Every continuous moment a choice. Will i hunt nothingness to find everything? or God? or will i "Let go, and let God" and simply emanate Love as a state? Difficult choices, to follow through truly, for this one. Once made, there is no "looking back" neh? In that, this one said "peek-a-boo" while slowly lowering my hands

I will respond more when the timing is more accurate

Originally posted by punctual
Who is to say that superdeterminism is out of the question? perhaps we are like animals in cages whose free will only extends as far out as the cage allows. So while we perceive free will in this reality, we fail to consider the possibility that that free will only works locally.....so while we can do whatever we want while in the cage (i.e. exercise free will), there is something greater (predestiny?) moving the cage itself along a path which we do not have control over.

In any case, you dismissed superdeterminism as a possibility probably because you do percieve your life as one with many different choices....but could not such choices just be localized to your "cage"...

just playing devil's advocate here...

We certainly leave superdeterminism in our wake so to speak in so far as once something has happened it cannot have happened in any other way.
In fact the only possibility for freedom then, is relative to the future domain of infinite possibility, which is why imagination is more important than knowledge.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You cannot understand how happy I am that you have actually brought this subject matter up (your Original Post).

Our brains see five seconds into the future before conscious thought

Can you please possibly explain though how number three has been proved correct. Because whilst many other theories have been proved correct via mathematics, i'm not such a believer in the theories proved by mathematics. This is in no small part to people trying to prove string theory where people create dimension after dimension just to make the mathematics fit, and fit it does, but does it really mean there are dimension after dimension existing or are they just there to make the mathematics fit? ;-P

In the above link it is an article on a research study where it was shown that our brains start sending electrical impulses a full 5 seconds before we actually "think we think" of an idea, whereas our brain new 5 seconds before hand that we were going to think it. Once i read this study it changed my ENTIRE outlook on life, and the meaning of life. Fate and determinedness. Are we actually in control or is our brain in control before our conscious thoughts can be made. In the study it seems our brain knows this before us, and just makes us think we are in control where we know we are not due to this research.

How is that free will? It seems like one great illusion of free will to me. And you do not know how depressed this has made me. Free will or a predetermined "Gods" will. The thoughts I am thinking now, are they really my own? Or are they the thoughts of a higher being, controlling and manipulating my very actions and "thoughts"?

So please. How is it that I have free will?

Another experiment is occurring and should be finished in a year to determine if we are actually three dimensional holograms of a two dimensional reality (see below link).
3D hologram of a 2D reality
"It will be more than a year before the instrument will be ready to test, and it will take more time to de-bug it.

But once it’s up and running, says Hogan, it should take less than an hour to actually test the holographic theory."

So then what? If proved true, and there are many hints especially from black-hole theory that it is the way it works. Theres actually only a 2d reality and we are just holograms of that 2d reality? That we're Virtual human beings?

What would be the point of living and the meaning of life then? I do want free will, but things seem to point away from that, in all that i've read. Please help me!?!?!? I've even thought about going to see a psychologist over it because thinking about not having free will really really depresses me. But I highly doubt it would be something they would understand about, and to be quite honest with you, It's this knowledge that made me very depressed, and to question the meaning of life. I certainly do not want to pass that on to other people who are content in their "Ignorance is Bliss" lifestyle.

Please help.

reply to post by DaRAGE


Free will may pertain more to ones perceptions of the actions and events, and not necessarily the actions and events themselves?

reply to post by DaRAGE


Excellent contribution! Thanks.

Read "The Self Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295502811&sr=8-1

To get a sense for the position of this choosing self, which although it is God is also you ie: it's non-locally distributed, existing everywhere and nowhere in particular PRIOR to choice, or you choosing what you are going to think or "you" in the indeterminate state prior to the collapse of the wave of probability - your quantum mind. That study simply proves that you have a qantum mind, where your classical mind is only the recording device and entire breadth of reaction and response to stimuli, and which often deludes us into thinking that "it" is who we really are (run on thoughts, static), and that would be the superdeterministc classical brain-mind not the real you, which transcends that.

In fact, the ONLY possibility for free will resides in the realm of the quantum mind, where those thoughts are developed and chosen, and selected from the domain of infinite possibility, and to the degree that they are induced by the classical mind, well then you're kind of screwed, since from that perspective there's only superdeterminism and no possibility of free will. Nothing but a meaning making machine, no real you (self aware with free will) possible

the quantum mind however is wholistic and spiritual and made of light and it's the real you, as opposed to the robot machine you, what some might refer to as the ghost in the machine, but it's not alien or at least let's hope it's not!

To die to self and be reborn in spirit, is to allow the classical machine mind to dissolve in the quantum mind of the Absolute. If such a thing is possible, then the incarnation of Avatars (from above) is also possible, and therefore, the salvation of the world, as a possibility, but the choice remains..

My I'd rather be brave to be Real, where courage isn't the absence of fear but the absense of self, and where e absence of self is the absence of fear - and that's liberating!


Best Regards,

John the Baptist (with sunglasses)

"To be is to be percieved" (a maxum derived from quantum theory)

and while our own perception and narrow POV may be faulty, that of the objective reality or truth isn't.

"There is nothing now hidden which will not be made known and brought to light."

seems there's just nowhere to hide, and that's ok, and a good thing I believe, although it might be nice to have a little privacy from time to time..

Needless to say, the point here is that it appears there is no such thing as isolate consciousness as resident strictly in the scull where consciousness is nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter.

it's as if our every thought is projected onto a giant universal screen.

Quantum Jump Bump (with some additional insight of possible interest)

Originally posted by Abovo

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

[...] Please don't compare faith to science, suggesting that it is a valid tool for discovering the "truth".

There is an interesting theory which suggest that FAITH could, potentially, be the greatest problem solving tool known to man, indirectly that is? It is based on the idea that thought or the phenomena of consciousness modifies our genetic code or DNA. I'm no expert in this particular field but the idea is that the deliberate act of faith allows the genes associated with intelligence to increase in capacity; capability.

It can reasoned that a beings capacity for intelligence is analogous to infinite potential energy. However, how does one unlock this hidden, intelligence, potential? If thought; consciousness, hypothetically, is the active principle in DNA modification, then FAITH which is belief in something which can't be tangibly manipulated or scientifically proven could act as a catalyst for the expansion of an individuals capacity for intelligence since the 'object' of faith represents an unknown, undefinable, idea. The intelligence of a person must expand in an effort to solve or define; delineate this unknown?

This is the theory anyhow. Of course, the mechanism whereby this 'growth in capacity' occurs is much more complex, this is the simple idea behind it.


Regards

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

This idea is of such great potential import, and interest to me, that I'm going to include your post here in my Alchemy Thread in Health and Wellness.

I also think that the "key" to unlocking that potential resides in an Alchemical perspective towards the human being, but framed within the context of a "monistic idealism" (consciousness, not matter is primary) such that the free self, the liberated, creative self, the happy person, resides precisely prior to any distinction or impression and then via a sharp and instantaneous quantum leap (recognition), not of faith, but of gnosis (knowing) born of the capacity to allow one's conception of self and everything else, to dissolve in the "crucible of the Absolute" (to use an alchemical metaphor) - poof, we've been re-cognized by the consciousness of consciousness, the point of leverage or the "towrope" to a higher order of being and awareness, what might be called a trans or supra-rationalism, which is not divorced from either reason, or logic, and this then is what migth be called the "logos" or the spirit of truth ie: infinite intelligence, and in theory anyway - infinite bliss!

Originally posted by Abovo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Glad to be of service.

Sat-cit-ānanda

Seen that, but had to go look it up on Wikipedia

truth, consciousness, and bliss

en.wikipedia.org...

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With absolutely nothing else to say, in the eternal nothing of everything, I hereby dedicate the remainder of this thread to creative works of art, liberature, and wherever possible, comedy. Thanks in advance for your participation, don't be afraid.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I humbly suggest that we have not even grasped 1% of how reality "works". QM is just a theory.

In Quantum Reality, we cannot grasp even an infinite amount of it or it's true nature and modus operandi, we cannot understand the Eternal Absolute Reality, only live in it, recognizing that it's there, and if Im right about this Akashic Field (record) Zero Point Field domain of light, also prepare to be recognized by it also, since consciousness is all there is in a monistic idealist (consciousness not matter being primary and operating as a formative causation, completion, and origin in eternity and) non-POV POV.
It alone is capable of resolving all the quantum paradoxes satisfactorily and I do think it's fair to say that QM is the only science which adequately descibes the "stuff" or the "foam" of the universe or infinite multiverse for all we know. It works, and holds water.

What it really means however, we are only just beginning to come to grips with and fathom. It makes my heart pound - at the prospect of this emerging "grokking" regarding the "love soup" we find ourselves floating in (or better yet eating or enjoying the "grokking" of) and if not now, then SOON, as we begin to wade further in (or once you get a TASTE for it!) and into the enjoyment of the blissful circumfrance, in eternal awareness, of a happy nowhere-everywhere, being embraced AND embracing (with wide eyes and little else to do, I mean like what DO you do when the whole universe gives you a hug, ya just HAVE to hug it back, it would be inappropriate, like refusing to hug your beloved grandma!




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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

"God cannot be explained, He cannot be argued about, He cannot be theorized, nor can He be discussed and understood. God can only be lived...

To understand the infinite, eternal Reality is not the GOAL of individualized beigns in the Illusion of Creation, because the Reality can never be understood; it is to be realized by conscious experience.

Therefore, the GOAL is to realize the Reality and attain the "I am God" (of God) state in human form."

~ Meher Baba, "God Speaks" (bracketed "of God" statement added by me)

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."
~ Jesus of Nazareth

For additional context I was replying to you comment

reply to post by sinohptik

 

And the frame of reference I was referring to (again from Meher Baba) was that what we think of as some thing, even a system, including the whole of creation, while it resides seemingly almost in total, in a realm of an unknown uknown or what we do not not (cannot?) know, and don't even know we don't know, CAN be known when we examine the human being in the creation as something made, beginning with the end in mind, to become God-conscious or God realized, although any such realization can only occur from a POV which is transcendant of any personally held POV, in our case, not that of any "thing" what-soever, even ourselves as a thing or a process or as a "created being", but instead, the everything already always and forever, from which the original nothing, was creative of something, or a finite and discreet nothing expanding ad infinitum as the creation or what Baba would describe as a great big nothing, although still nothing at all - the point here being that God became LOST to his true indentity as originally intended in and through us as evolved consciousness made by consciousness for consciousness to contain consciousness (there being in truth, nothing else) by man's own interpretation of himself as exclusively resident WITHIN that creation as some type of thing, process or system within ever larger systems, lost to himself (eternal infinite everything everywhere always self) having been identified AS his creation or as being part of it via all manner of pointing (particular points of view).

But, as the pointless everything already always - as the impressionless, pointless, mindless awareness of nothing as nothing (including the self) in particular, a mere nothing or "nothing special" as Buddha called it, well then the nothing is then recognized within the framework of the everything everywhere already always now and forever - when the human being allows himself to be lost in God (die to self, die for God) and in so doing be re-discovered by God (Conscious of being Conscious) in eternity, relative to whom the whole breadth of nothing becomes re-cognized or re-absorbed in the Everything Everywhere or God consciousness of himself in the human being.

In the fullness of the eternity of cosmic evolution, man might be described as the new kid on the block so to speak, whereby the fully evolved human being is a relatively new phenomenon. Thus being last, he is first.

Man in truth is God, but there's no particularization of any seperate self in that, or at the very least the Man-God part of God, as intended and created to contain and to realize in the fullness of time and history.

Meher Baba states that this Man-God state means everything and any amount of suffering over the course of any amount of lifetimes, or even evolutionary cycles throughout the entire kingdom of evolutionary progression, in other words that this moment of re-cognition by the human being who dies for God, is what it's all for, and the reason it all happened in the first place, the neccessity of creation, that God would never be lost to himself, and instead would become ever more fully informed, and ever more conscious.

So while everything's changed, only one thing has not stayed the same!

By pointing and losing ourselves in the creation, God remains alseep in man, and not aware of himself as God, that's all I was getting at.

And by "Man-God" here, I don't think I was referring to this one.. !

To the Man-God who decided to board my boat

Therefore we must remain eternally vigilent with the recognotion that, as God, there is always and forever a very VERY fine line, between "holiness" and "assholiness."

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I rather enjoy this ones theories They seem to hit brick walls when translation occurs, however. Oh well, c'est la vie!

i could say i came to the conclusions through what one might consider "divine intervention" or "mathematics" and that would indeed be the case (linked post of this one in your quoted section)

Wheres all the artwork anyway? I was looking forward to more in the vein of the first posted picture. Perhaps we could throw some solargraphy in there

Go Big or go Home, as they say. How about Galaxies, they're fun!


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This is a particularly nice one (look familiar?)

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Three Galaxies Dancing!

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Speaking of hitting walls..

The Great Wall Attractor

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Or we could if we wanted, switch to Earthly flowers, or other homegrown natural wonders, since hey, it's all just a chip off the same old block anyway, right?

This one's nice, imho.

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And then finally, to top it all off, I would like to add, Yoda, Jedi Master & Quantum Reality Guru.

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Presuppositions

1) Consciousness, not matter is primary.

2) The human being is in possession of both a classical brainmind, and a quantum holographic mind capable of recieving and transmitting information from and to the Akashic Record (Zero Point Field aka Unified FIeld), both consiously, and unconsciously. The cyclical rise and fall of night and day consciousness, can, then, if we so choose to allow it, move into increasing harmonic, sympathetic connectedness with the whole, the one song, the Uni-verse, and with all life, including all sentient life in a mutually embracing depth of love and compassion even equal to the task here on earth (capable of carrying the load of suffering, and bringing us to the end of suffering, at least of the unncessary variety, by conscious and willing suffering (meaningful ie: a "Logotherapy") and therefore to the beginning of a PRIOR freedom, who's expression is creative action, and humour, the state. Lost to self, the ego-self undone, the no-self self is then rediscovered or re-cognized in eternity or in God as our new condition (new creation), as our Reality, of the infinitely more real variety (authentic) which, in spite of our sensory limitations, and subjective "cloudiness", remains in the eternal, fully informed, and self consciously aware Universe (one song) which prefers to "leave no orphans" with everyone everywhere already always included, in the whole of God's great and vast eternal kingdom of limitless possibility, from life to life meeting life in eternity, such that death itself loses its very meaning, even from the perspective of the one who lives within the already always, eternally unfolding present moment, of now.

3) The realm of the unknown unknown, WAS, something that we did not know about, and could not have, since it used to reside in the realm of something we did not know, but had never even considered before, with awareness, even knowledge and intution as a guide given by the spirit, to lead us into the spirit of truth and wisdom - the truth which sets us free at last!

4) The universe within which we are emersed as consciousness in consciousness, made by consciousness for consciousness, at all levels, including the whole hiarchy of "kingdoms", always gaining more information or impressions from each level in every sphere, but all within one, infinite, and discontinuous now, which in truth is fresh every moment, and one - which is the very reason why we simply must forgive as we are already forgiven or we CANNOT be forgiven ourselves! This is more Phi Ratio Golden Rule (Golden Knot) thinking.

So while we cannot understand the absolute objective eternal reality, we can never the less access it and live in it, and grow and explore it together in mutuality, this experience we're having called life, forever, unto infinity itself and a complete and absolute God realization at the end of time, where everything is reaborbed by the Everything who was already always, dissolved in light (for which matter is already nothing more than the crystalization of light in the Zero Point Field), and this new order of reality arises, like a quantum leap, along with a final (never ending) resurrection (of some kind since the universe remains fully informed and fully self aware as self realized consciousness) at the end of time (all apparent causation), while also in a way, "beginning with the end in mind" always. For such a thing (creative source) to exist in ANY domain, it would have to reside in the domain of light, rising unto an infinite uncaused-cause "with a cause", or in truth, a Heaven, also real, of which the physical world we are now in, is but a reflection of some kind, since our reality must come about as a subtraction FROM the ABSOLUTE absolute (beyond the beyond), unmanifest made manifest, whereby we see the Absolute taking on the "role" of creator creating, preserver preserving, destroyer destroying but with the apparent aim of both coming into full self knowledge, and also SHARING (maybe having already known at some level from the beginning, the "who" question, since it's a non-local fully informed, evolutionary progression in eternity to begin with, in order words it might just be the ultimate free gift, the gift of life being the ultimate free lunch so to speak right out of the gate, from the get go, and this then is the living water of the harmonized non-dual free-flow of life in eternity, available to any who are thirsty and wish to drink.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion." ~ C. S. Lewis

---anyway, rambling here time for bed.

G'night!


The Creator is created.
The Preserver is preserved.
The Destroyer is destroyed.

"Therefore, fear not little ones, nor let your hearts be troubled, for it pleased the father to share his kingdom with all his children!" (surely said with a hearty smile and a sense of great JOY!)

How is that free will? It seems like one great illusion of free will to me. And you do not know how depressed this has made me.

reply to post by DaRAGE


The realization of the illusion of free will has had quite the reverse effect for me.

Had my choices and decisions stemmed solely from my own will, I am convinced that I would have made so much of a mess of my life that it would have become unlivable.

It is a great relief to discover that I no longer need to torture myself endlessly when faced with a momentous "choice" in life, that all I need to do is let go, relax, and allow the decision to manifest with clarity in my awareness.

It helps tremendously to know that the results of my efforts are not in my hands, because then I don't have to waste time in self-recriminations.

There is comfort in the knowledge that I am not in control of my life, for I would feel helpless trying to keep this very vulnerable body and mind safe from harm.

If harm does befall me, and it becomes difficult to keep this head above water, it gives hope to know that a way forward is already mapped out for me.

No more floundering and treading water in a confusing and directionless mist of fear and anxiety that permeates so much of the world around me. The die has been cast, I only need to roll with it.

So no need to despair this loss of free will, for in truth we never had it to begin with. The only thing lost is the illusion, and once cast off, a greater freedom hitherto unknown beckons us.

An interesting programme was broadcast a few days ago in the UK on BBC 2 exploring what is reality. It dipped into everything from string theory, holographic universes, multi universes, quarkas and mathematics, It was also mentioned that as they explore matter everything seems to be made of nothing or rather just a form of energy. The universe is just one massive vibration of energy which appears to be made up of nothing.

Suppose that if you go with the theory that we live in a holographic universe and that we only exist because we are being observed. And as everything is essentially mathematics, to go one step further perhaps we are actually part of a super computer which is exploring a model of its own universe. After all we do not seem to exist until observed, and we have multiple potential existences. However there are only limited numbers of characteristics which define a human being and how we behave, live and think. Perhaps we are part of a very sophisticated computer programme what we think of as feelings and emotions can be explained by vibrations and numbers. How would we know we are in our own words real.

That would mean define reality and the version of reality we seem to be living in.

reply to post by DaRAGE



The person you were before you realized that free will is not possible has been scared, that person is the me/ego. It only survives if it can keep you hypnotized/asleep. The mind made person who you thought you were is dying. That`s fantastic. The depression is the mind fighting to stay alive. You are not the thoughts, you are the seer of the thoughts, you know you are not the thinker of those thoughts either. So watch the thoughts. Let them pass.
All things come and go. You are that that sees all things come and go.

Presuppostion #5)

There are more neuronal interconnections in a single human brain and nervous system (can't forget the body, and even the heart has a little bunch of heart neurons, or a heart mind, believe it or not), than there are MOLECULES in the entire known universe.

At the same time, there are as many or more STARS in the entire universe, than there are GRAINS OF SAND on every beach and in every desert on the face of the Earth..

Presup 6)

The universe is a NON-LOCAL holographic sphere or one song, and if people like Irvin Laszlo and David Bohm are to be believed, a non-local quantum hologram.

Presup 7)

The mind (recepticle of human consciousness) is holographic also.

8) The human mind is in possession, like the starry universe, of BOTH a classical "infrastructure" of moving bodies interacting, and a TRANSLIMINAL, non-local quantum holographic (oceanic) reality, the deeper of the two, and the more intrinsically ONE, that's for certain.

9) The human brain interacts with the Akashic Record, which is the ACTUAL storehouse of all information, all awareness, all consciousness, at all levels, from every angle and perspective imaginable, whereby not only is the human brain a holographic "chip off the old block" so to speak, but intrinsic, as the QUANTUM MIND to QUANTUM REALITY, not unlike a sun shining on a cloudy day (it's still there).

10) The human being therefore, as a quantum self, a true self, and yes even a happy and blissful self (with prior humor as prior freedom) is liberated in eternity, as an actual expression not only of consciousness, but also a non-local cosmic evolutionary process in eternity, as an expression of the Absolute, once again made by consciousness FOR consciousness, that consciousness might become concious, of itself, from the POV of an everything always no-self self, ah..self referencially, and by direct divine Phi proportion and extension "in the light" literally, and figuratively or "spiritually".

11) God is spirit and truth.

12) Our true, quantum holographic real self, our happy and joyful authentic being, even if we don't have the first clue who we really are and what it's all about - is ALSO spirit and truth.

13) Worship as communion (not as domination and submission) - to say that God seeks worshippers who worship in spirit and in truth, only means that the source (God) as the highest possible consciousness EVER wishes intimate koinonia with the creation, and all his children, here and everywhere, yet here, of all places, in fallen man, is his unrelenting persistent determination and willingness seen or made most fully manifest (God's Grace).

14) Jesus Christ was God, the logos, in the flesh, who's death was meaningful, if for no other reason than to create for man an INSURANCE policy, this is the breadth and depth and reach of God's love, willing to go, even to the nth degree, for that one lost sheep.

Presup 15) The spirit forever informed, never changes, it is the same spirit from age to age and from aeon to aeon from sphere to sphere in the one sphere in eternity. Therefore, the human being, through the God-realized being of "the Christ" (more than Jesus of Nazareth, but who and what he allowed himself to become as "Christ" or annointed in spirit ie: spirit without measure) has an eternal, sympathetic, harmonious connection, at all levels with the reality of the truth and spirit in the form of a human being, fully integrated, with perfect integrity and wholeness.

Presup 16) Jesus Christ can serve as an authentic spiritual model of devotional love and gratitude for the spiritually mind, or as the spirit of truth and reality, in a loving friendship with God, the veil of separation removed, and that's love and freedom and true liberation.

"You will know the trurth and the truth will set you free, but if you're freed for my sake, why then you shall be truly free indeed!"

I think that was his heart mind talking!

It can be as small as a tiny mustard seed, or perhaps, even as small as a single photon of light, where all photons are joined in perfect awareness, perfect love, and a perfect will, in eternity already always now and forever, um.. amen.

We must therefore, love as we are loved.

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