Quantum Reality

reply to post by trekwebmaster


This one is very aware of standardized terms such as phi and fibonacci sequences, no need to explain them. I promise ill "get it." Though, you are not necessarily showing "maths," at least not in a standard equation relating your hypothesis. What i get from your words is that you are proposing that each "one" technically starts at zero, and can choose infinity, but gets stuck in all of the numbers?

Conceptually, are you using.. "lines" to connect "infinity" back to zero? A golden ratio spiral? How are you looking at the term of "infinity?" Are you going for a "unified" type equation? Or can you show what you are doing conceptually through mathematics?

Sorry for the boatload of questions, i am interested in your perspective, but am having trouble getting what you are putting out

reply to post by AllIsOne


Well, yeah! Thats what makes it so fun

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by sinohptik
Truly wonderful, this thing here.

What thing? You mean the nothing of apparent somethingness..?

Nah, it's not THAT big of a deal, except, except for the final realization it is bringiing about, but the nothing of apparent somethingness, it will ONY be truly wonderful and magniticent when "it" (the big BIG nothing) get's reaborbed in the everything already always in the conscious mind of man, so that God will also be self realized at that moment, once man allows himself to be lost in God and to become impressionless and without impression. Only then might the old old old thing be made real, right across the board, rediscovered, recognized in consciousness, and consciousness never forgets that's the beauty of consciousness and God as preserver preserving.

Current man thinks himself to be something else, some "thing" in the something that is nothing, and so God as consciousness itself, at least in man, is falsely imprisoned in matter, assuming that the apparent something is really something, even something wonderful, and something special, but in truth it's nothing at all and therefore nothing to be impressed by (creation as illusion). What's impressive again, is when the nothing we take to be something, is at last recognized as the nothing in EVERYTHING, and then God get's to go ah HA, "I am God", I am not in that, not part of it. "Heaven" then is the causeless cause, the uncreated, unmanifest zero point field (and akashic record in preservation) of a fully recognized and self aware God. Getting TO that point, without taking a certain entheogen, may be a simple matter of logic and reason, and the courage to recognize God and allow God to recognize us, as himself - sounds arrogant I realize, but it's not and cannot be, since truth and humility is to know ourselves as we truly are, and we, as "things" are more nothing, but as no things, in everything? = well, now THAT is another matter (spirit) altogether!

So this "thing" isn't wonderful, nor even this no thing - but the everything already always, recognized, the self undone for all time and God realized, and the no thing reabsorbed in the everything always that alone is REAL, now THAT is truly a wonderful everything everywhere already always..

P.S. This "argument" I"m putting forth here re: nothing recognized in everything already always (as the condition of God in man) is one I've discovered through the "grokking" of two apparent Avatars, Meher Baba and Adi Da, (plus a little Jesus for good measure) and it's an argument that I am capable of making only from grokking those two and from having a certain predisposition for such things myself.

Interestingly, whenever I get one of these points across really well, and create a clearing of sorts with the "word" I myself then enjoy that clearing I believe that I've been able to make available as an access point for my brother or you, dear reader. Thank you then for also being my own clearing in your "grokking" of these things, it really has an impact!

When we grok, we begin to see face to face, eye to eye, not just with one another, but with the Reality, as it really and truly is, rediscovered, and now, reenchanted. THIS then is an absolute marvel that such a thing can be communicated with mere symbols, from a keyboard, mouse and screen, that we can actually grok together, here and now, and I can sense it, even as I type these words that we are enjoying koinonia in here together, at last.

It's been a long time..

Welcome back everyone to the REAL world... (don't be distracted or impressed, be impressionless and realize reality now and allow God the everything already always to realize himself again, as if for the first time perhaps, through you, it is our purpose as a human being, the GOAL of life and the universe, the very meaning of life itself). Nothing else matters, everything is consciousness become conscious for the sake of consciousness, that the creation might be dedeemed, and everything everywhere already always, fully spiritualized and made REAL! There is no amount of sorrow and suffering which is not worth this GOAL or objective, since it's realization is suffering's very purpose, both meaningless and meaningful suffering since all suffering leads inexorably to conscious suffering and therefore to suffering's undoing, or made meaningful within the context of this supreme goal and objective. This then brings new understanding to the Christ mind willing to take it all on, how admirable, and how ignorant we've been..!

Oblivious to oblivion, this is the God condition once realized, and it is HUMOROUS! You must "grok" that..!

And then what's even more wonderful, once we "get" it or allow God-consciousness to get "it" through us, now willingly having lost our self in God, is that it is NOT in any way an imposition upon the mind of "mere" man, because everything is by consciousness and for consciousness already always, now and forever!

(everyone's "in the house" now so I'm closing the door).

Thank you illusion of creation, for making us real as the good sons of God all creation has been waiting (groaning) in travail to be revealed and made known (realized by God in man with man in God).

God Bless! (however unneccessary the sentiment within the contextual frame of reference I've been using here, just being playful nothing more)

Did I write that?

From my perspective, where I sit today... huh, I don't know what to say.

I've never ah "rung the bell" like that before. # I'm going to have to print that out, as an ever present reminder, of just who I am not.

Zero'ed out, sure feels nice, that's for sure.

Not an easy thing either, as apparently easy I made it appear to be. Looks like I might have gotten a little ahead of myself there! LOL

That's ok, I'm just starting to catch up myself, with the very things I claim to already understand. So there is a difference between words on a screen and understanding. I'm just scratching my head here over my own writings, because from my current perspective and frame of reference, it is a miracle that I even wrote that. Hm I guess I am a mere dicreet and finite nothing after all in the big (infinite!) "everything already always" - but this notion isn't so easy to "fully grok", even when apparently understood at first blush.

What a wonderful discovery and potential recognition in eternity, and I think it might be true, that's the freaky part, and I swear sitting here now I can't believe I even wrote it. Praise God above all then for being informative!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


So, perhaps it was necessary after all!

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I humbly suggest that we have not even grasped 1% of how reality "works". QM is just a theory.

Who gives a # HOW it works!

And perhaps in the final analysis it's actual workings don't even really matter - heck for all we know the whole universe is projected from a single non-locally distributed (in eternity) photon of light. I'll bet there is that kind of simplicty in it somewhere at some point.

That is IS working, is a marvel, but what's more, I appear to have been suggesting (if I'm reading myself right here) is that the apparent differentiation of the everything, through an infinite number of finite nothings expanding ad infinitim, all combine, relative to the consciously aware everything already always in eternity, into one giant nothing in the everything already always, and so, from that perspective, self referencially or holographically (most certainly non-locally - see Ball's Theorem), nothing's changed, it is STILL the very same nothing, except there's a difference, the fundamental difference being that God is becoming (has become, unwittingly to us by us) consciously aware of himself as the infinite everything already always everwhere in whom even we ourselves are nothing more than a finite nothing (ashes to ashes dust to dust lol), but that's ok, because he's willing to let us in on the joke of all ages, and actually include us, as his children (caused or created so to speak) in that eternity and eternal kingdom made in nothing less than the image of God (consciousness itself).

So at the same time, it's neither an imposition on the mind of man or anything special to get all worked up over! What did Sidartha call it "an unexcelled enlightenment" or nothing special!

Humor, is all that is left at the end of this, happy smiles and rejeuvenated no-mind mind and no-self self, now retained or preserved within the BigMind/BigHeart of God.

"My peace I freely give not as the world gives do I give it, my peace I give unto you." Nice.

It is nice (if we had to choose a word).

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

So, perhaps it was necessary after all!

OMG

I think we have to be very quiet now, and very very small.

.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
Here is an enigma to ponder, for a time, and times, and half a time...

To approach the speed of light and cross the thresh-hold, an object, or particle would gain mass? And all time appeared to stop as being "eternal?" So that on that scale, it would seem as a sun?

Perhaps to surpass this barrier, things would appear as if at the level of the atom?

Can you see the inference? To Be or Not To Be, to think it is to do it, the faith of even a mustard seed...you can see where this is headed?

Could it be so simple? If it is, how can we prove it? Is the capacity of "leaping of faith" have everything to do with it?

If this is so, then what we "think," what we "do," and what we "are" has direct influence and effect on scales we never thought possible? How can "we know" this information? Quantum Entanglement? If so, then "Light" is the answer all along. Literal, Parable, Taken Literally, unravels the "enigma?"

Does this have any effect? Using logical words for a quantum thought? Where is the origin?

Ponder this for a time, times, and half a time...and you'll have the answer.

Yes yes yes!

My sentiment exactly (I couldn't stay quiet I'm sorry)!

What is the perspective, of a tiny mustard seed, in this case a single photon of light? Bell's theorem proves it is non-local, and light, at the speed of light, transcends causation and time, it resides in a timeless, spaceless eternity, so all the photons in the universe, if there are more than one to begin with.. they all combine within a Bose-Einstein condensate, moving through the Zero Point Field or the Akashic Field (The Preserver is preserved) as an apparent creation, which is more like a hologram than anything substantial, simply informed by the absolute of light itself, and then reinformed also by the creation itself in an eternal feedback loop within a Monistic Idealist framework (consciousness, not matter, is primary or "at cause") which also happens to be the ONLY possibly way to resolve all the quantum paradoxes including Wheeler's delayed choice experiment, that proves non-linear time.

Consciousness = Light

Light is consciousness ever more fully informed from eternity to eternity in the Akashic Field or the Zero Point field, however apparently crystalized or imprisoned it might appear to be, but which is destined to dissolve in the end from nothing into everything, even now, from classical mind, to quantum mind, from ego, to true self, from matter, into spirit, the whole of creation redeemed at last!

Therefore, in a non-local holographic universe, local matters, so - WHO we are being and what we're thinking and doing, and who and what we are in our innermost heart of hearts really matters, and love moves the stars and IS their light! Light and love, as a causation also "groks" I think, where love is the first cause of the light, love the desire to share, and to know thyself and reality as we really are (no distinctions).

This could be called the "re-enchantment of the cosmos", or the revelation of the sons of God, something all of creation (non-local, holographic) has been "groaning in travail" to realize and to see come to pass, now having arrived as an idea whose time has come - faith the size of a tiny seed, capable of moving whole mountains of historical causation..!

reply to post by sinohptik


In a way, of sorts, more visualized by "man's consciousness" as "riding the zero" and along the numbers with the "golden-knot" tying the "concurrent streams" together perhaps?

A person could add as many "infinites" as they could stand, then, strings of infinite numbers "spark-off" the fractional information we would need? Its where the sublime domain is located where any number of things could become any number of previsualized realities depending on what "scale" your at? Does this make sense?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That's a wonderfully most beautiful description of the word and thought "LOVE" I have ever seen, but yet knew always existed...interesting how all this time those "anchors" of what we knew to be "true" are really, "True!"

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

That's a wonderfully most beautiful description of the word and thought "LOVE" I have ever seen, but yet knew always existed...interesting how all this time those "anchors" of what we knew to be "true" are really, "True!"

Yes, the only difference now I guess is we've also seen the Hubble Ultra Deep Field!

So now it's scary true big time!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Companion to video

The high res pics there are.. breathtaking

I like to imagine a grand hurrah and cheers erupting, whenever the human being "groks" God..

And for me, I see and grok the ulimate love and courage rendered here at its apex (everywhere already always in unblemished consciousness), sadly, and in accordance and direct proportion with man's fall from grace and ignorance, at a place called Golgotha litte more than about two thousand years ago as measured in Earth-rounds of a seemingly insignificant star, called Sol. An intent of the will who's purpose it was to regenerate the human being through the cleansing of karmic law and the resolution to the problem of evil, capable of removing the veil, and bringing mankind back into direct communion with God (however poorly that's been understood or misused and abused for political purposes). I call it the non-localized quantum-holographic cosmological Christ. They used to laugh at me for saying that, but it turns out that my evaluation and interpretation may have not been so far off the mark after all.

"What is man that thou art mindful of him?"

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Therefore, in a non-local holographic universe, local matters, so - WHO we are being and what we're thinking and doing, and who and what we are in our innermost heart of hearts really matters, and love moves the stars and IS their light! Light and love, as a causation also "groks" I think, where love is the first cause of the light, love the desire to share, and to know thyself and reality as we really are (no distinctions).

This could be called the "re-enchantment of the cosmos", or the revelation of the sons of God, something all of creation (non-local, holographic) has been "groaning in travail" to realize and to see come to pass, now having arrived as an idea whose time has come - faith the size of a tiny seed, capable of moving whole mountains of historical causation..!

I suppose one might say its possible that the representative systems we see at the edge of our perception might be more accurately representing the idea of orbital structures that are carried throughout, regardless of perspective. Perhaps, when one is not "aligned" with said orbital structure, in "God," then one can not build up mass, momentum, velocity, or anything as the orbit itself has not stabilized to the point of growth. It just might be, our perception creates a field that can distort the orbital paths to the point of having little cohesion with which to build upon. As one allows oneself to be through their free will choice, we might just form as the galaxies do, on a different conceptual level, throughout multiple (or perhaps all) dimensions/universes. As certain tipping points are reaching, such things can start to yield life, as on this planet "earth" here. The specific building and make-up of these systems may just correlate with the constant state of the perspective involved. Some will form moons, some will form planets, some will form stars, and some will form galaxies, and so on. It might be said that when one does not align perspective to "what is" then it might not leave much more than a strewn asteroid field.

reply to post by sinohptik

The mechanisms of the perfect will of the Absolute cannot be understood, and neither can the reality be understood, and it's all just "infrastructure" anyway, a thing, and therefore a nothing in particular. We cannot understand the Absolute Eternal Reality. God can only be lived, and all we have is the golden rule, whereby we must also love as we are loved and forgive as we are forgiven, and love as much as we are able, giving all glory to God.
We cannot be impressioned by perception, that will dissolve as the Reality becomes increasing Real, but there are surely lots of clues in nature, light night and day, the turnings of planetary bodies, the change of seasons, these things can be viewed allegorically as manifestations of the intelligent light of life and love, but let us not mistake the eminations, from the source, I think that's the point in all this, at least for me, not to mistake the creation for the creator or the creator of the creator, who is the inviolate everything already always and, last but not least (if that weren't good enough) "who" is also the greatest aspect of our own true nature as the created human being (child of God) in consciousness and eternity, re-embraced or re-integrated in spirit and in truth and love (even eternal life)..

Let us not be distracted or re-impressed, and then lost again to the most essential Who, of the what, how, when, where and why.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by sinohptik

 

The mechanisms of the perfect will of the Absolute cannot be understood, and neither can the reality be understood, and it's all just "infrastructure" anyway, a thing, and therefore a nothing in particular. We cannot understand the Absolute Eternal Reality. God can only be lived, and all we have is the golden rule, whereby we must also love as we are loved and forgive as we are forgiven, and love as much as we are able, giving all glory to God.

What is with all this "cannot" talk, eh? For this one, after one is living, the brain and mind still have purpose as a focusing tool. It can not encompass what happens every continuous moment, but we sure can point to the moon. Who are these ones, to say what God can, or can not, be? Do you feel one is devoid of God if they, in their limited perception, perceive it that way? This one sees God still, and even within the perception itself. How are you seeing it, friend?

I think that's the point in all this, at least for me, not to mistake the creation for the creator or the creator of the creator, who is the inviolate everything already always and, last but not least (if that weren't good enough) "who" is also the greatest aspect of our own true nature as the created human being (child of God) in consciousness and eternity, re-embraced or re-integrated in spirit and in truth and love (even eternal life)..

How intriguing! This one does not make concessions or differentiations between the creation, creator, or created. I do not see a "within" or "without," as it were.

Let us not be distracted or re-impressed, and then lost again to the most essential Who, of the what, how, when, where and why.

It seems to this one that no matter where one goes, there they are. What is to be directed by perception in the vast ocean of all that is? I am not so sure this one could say what i could be distracted from, and would struggle equally to distinguish what this one would be distracted to. Where one points, he can not escape such a thing. Where one does not point, he can not escape such a thing.

How interesting, these perspectives are.. What are your thoughts?

reply to post by sinohptik

I'm just talking off the top of my head here based on a few things I've picked up lately from some of the masterful people we've had here with us from time to time, nothing more, nothing I claim to know or "grok" in fullness, but I have had a mere taste, and therefore know of the full things at least in part however small, and to taste I suppose is a good start anyway! I am not all that, let me just begin by claiming nothing of myself for myself or by myself, and heck I don't even really know who I am when I'm not pretending to be somebody I'm not!
So it's not for me to say of course what anyone else "can" or "cannot" do, since I'm not over there where you are, although that inquiry made from one into another, at some level that's all we've got! - koinonia.

I'm just reporting what I've learned from one who I believe is credible and what HE said was all this about the unimpressioned mind, the dissolution of consciousness, the pointless that although "it" or "he" may point, points at nothing.

Here is what he said

"God cannot be explained, He cannot be argued about, He cannot be theorized, nor can He be discussed and understood. God can only be lived...

To understand the infinite, eternal Reality is not the GOAL of individualized beigns in the Illusion of Creation, because the Reality can never be understood; it is to be realized by conscious experience.

Therefore, the GOAL is to realize the Reality and attain the "I am God" (of God) state in human form."

~ Meher Baba, "God Speaks" (bracketed "of God" statement added by me)

"And as my father hath sent me, even so send I you."
~ Jesus of Nazareth

For additional context I was replying to you comment

reply to post by sinohptik


And the frame of reference I was referring to (again from Meher Baba) was that what we think of as some thing, even a system, including the whole of creation, while it resides seemingly almost in total, in a realm of an unknown uknown or what we do not not (cannot?) know, and don't even know we don't know, CAN be known when we examine the human being in the creation as something made, beginning with the end in mind, to become God-conscious or God realized, although any such realization can only occur from a POV which is transcendant of any personally held POV, in our case, not that of any "thing" what-soever, even ourselves as a thing or a process or as a "created being", but instead, the everything already always and forever, from which the original nothing, was creative of something, or a finite and discreet nothing expanding ad infinitum as the creation or what Baba would describe as a great big nothing, although still nothing at all - the point here being that God became LOST to his true indentity as originally intended in and through us as evolved consciousness made by consciousness for consciousness to contain consciousness (there being in truth, nothing else) by man's own interpretation of himself as exclusively resident WITHIN that creation as some type of thing, process or system within ever larger systems, lost to himself (eternal infinite everything everywhere always self) having been identified AS his creation or as being part of it via all manner of pointing (particular points of view).

But, as the pointless everything already always - as the impressionless, pointless, mindless awareness of nothing as nothing (including the self) in particular, a mere nothing or "nothing special" as Buddha called it, well then the nothing is then recognized within the framework of the everything everywhere already always now and forever - when the human being allows himself to be lost in God (die to self, die for God) and in so doing be re-discovered by God (Conscious of being Conscious) in eternity, relative to whom the whole breadth of nothing becomes re-cognized or re-absorbed in the Everything Everywhere or God consciousness of himself in the human being.

In the fullness of the eternity of cosmic evolution, man might be described as the new kid on the block so to speak, whereby the fully evolved human being is a relatively new phenomenon. Thus being last, he is first.

Man in truth is God, but there's no particularization of any seperate self in that, or at the very least the Man-God part of God, as intended and created to contain and to realize in the fullness of time and history.

Meher Baba states that this Man-God state means everything and any amount of suffering over the course of any amount of lifetimes, or even evolutionary cycles throughout the entire kingdom of evolutionary progression, in other words that this moment of re-cognition by the human being who dies for God, is what it's all for, and the reason it all happened in the first place, the neccessity of creation, that God would never be lost to himself, and instead would become ever more fully informed, and ever more conscious.

So while everything's changed, only one thing has not stayed the same!

By pointing and losing ourselves in the creation, God remains alseep in man, and not aware of himself as God, that's all I was getting at.

And I know God was awake in Jesus Christ, this man Meher Baba, in Krishna, and to a very large degree in Buddha, and probably numberous Hindu mystics and others throughout the breadth of human history, and now it's OUR turn, and that it is available now for our mutual grokking en mass that's a real marvel, imho.

What's the saying - let go and let God? That's simple, but not easy, and yet, it seems to be getting easier now for some strange reason, so maybe the "orbits of the music of the spheres" are doing something systematic, but me I think it's nothing in any one system, but something much more wholistic and even more profound, an entire universe (one song) becoming aware, not of itself as a thing, but God-realized, and if that weren't strange enough, solipsistically, at least from our perspective as the human being, it seems to begin and end here, by God's own insistence that the God-Man experience be included, even as the prized pearl in the gate or the very central jewel in His crown of glory, and so then we as creatures, we really are something very special, but only when we ourselves come to realize that we're nothing of ourselves and everything to and in God who IS the everything already always, now (or increasingly) aware of himself through us, his children made in his very image (consciousness).

According to Meher Baba, it is ALL about consciousness, and from other things I've been discovering re: Monistic Idealism (consciousness not matter is primary), it looks like he's right on the target, and if so, to me, for me, I am somewhat pained that I was so focused on or from my own personal POV that God was pushed aside, when my purpose is to allow him to awaken and be expressed and experience life, through me, which is His greatest joy and love, to have fun and enjoy the creation in the form of the human being! This of course brings all our suffering to awareness, as manifestations of absurd degrees of selfishness, narrowmindedness and ignorance (no that's not directed at anyone in particular).

And for me it sure puts a whole new spin on my Christian "faith" (now gnosis) that's for sure, and why then it's like an INSURANCE policy! to make darn sure than the human being was/is never lost to God nor God to the human being! Christianity grokked, understood and shared appropriately, and recognized for what it really is and signifies, that's my thing.

Why?

So that we can laugh again in a pure way and in an authentic way, so that the indignity of the injustice of life cannot stifle our joy, our laughter and our love, and when I say "our" I mean yours' and mine, AND of course, God's!

So I'm really speaking then here about the outer most sphere you could say, within which we are an ever expanding dot of nothing enveloped by everything, or "hugged" and accepted and embraced, even loved unconditionally - this is our true condition, and hey why settle then for anyting less than that?!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by SpearMint
I can't believe you're discussing quantum reality, yet calling multiple dimensions 'absurd'.

No no, the "Multi Worlds Theory", where the universe splits at each and every decision, with the other decision not made creating another universe, with another you in it, that's all. I'm just saying that that hall of mirrors of infinite selves all making every possible choice, is absurd.

Like move your own finger, this way or THAT way, and every time, imagine that you just divided the whole universe, with another you going in the other direction, absurd like that.

Why is it absurd? Because you say it is?I mean to my knowledge and I'm a huge fan of the multi-worlds theory , there is no evidence to prove one hundred percent that that theory isn't true. The only reason somthing is absurd is because we have proof that it does not exist.

If you can provide actual proof or evidence that the mult-worlds theory is does not exist and is therefor absurd then I'd be glad to read it but until you have that proof , I wouldn't dismiss a simple theory as being absurd.

Who is to say that superdeterminism is out of the question? perhaps we are like animals in cages whose free will only extends as far out as the cage allows. So while we perceive free will in this reality, we fail to consider the possibility that that free will only works locally.....so while we can do whatever we want while in the cage (i.e. exercise free will), there is something greater (predestiny?) moving the cage itself along a path which we do not have control over.

In any case, you dismissed superdeterminism as a possibility probably because you do percieve your life as one with many different choices....but could not such choices just be localized to your "cage"...

just playing devil's advocate here...

reply to post by Reptius


Well, because what wasn't chosen wasn't chosen, and once something is it cannot be anything other than that. There is nothing that is not. What is, is.
I am convinced that the universe is not a house divided, nor a house scattered. At the most fundamental level I do not and cannot bring myself to assume that the reality, the one reality, is a duality.

Also, by moving finger this way or that I don't think a new universe is made, and in everything I choose not to do, I don't think an evil twin is cloned somewhere, in a parallel universe, which always does the opposite thing of whatever I choose at each moment.

Reality may very well be and surely is multidimensional, but it's still one reality, one entire frame.

The continual splitting and dividing of the multi world's theory arising from every choice or failure to choose, just isn't neccessary and it makes of free will a horror show and a nightmare.

In my world anyway, there is one creation and the creation is fundamentally good, whole and complete, and seeking to become ever more so all the time, increasingly one, all the parts collecting and joining together in unison or unity.

I just don't think that God as the whole allows his body to be torn apart and splintered in this manner, for me it just doesn't "grok" or feel congruent, but to each his own I guess, as people are not likely to alter their viewpoint based on the writings of poster on a discussion forum.

Personally I think it's absurd, even insulting, lacking in cohesion as well as logic and reason.