Israel said it would keep Gaza near collapse: WikiLeaks

One more thing...something thats made me even more cross today.. Yesterday..after mother nature in line with her necessary cycles unleashed hell on many of our towns....when peoples the world over offered us all only compassion and comradery - love- a freaking zionist preacher had the hide to stand up and say that this disaster was caused - not by anything as rational as El Nina cycle and its particular ferocity this time because of water temperture rises not seen since the begining of the industrial revolution when floods were this high..no.

No, apparently it was actually caused because our foregin minister was taking a stand against Israel by saying Israel should stop building on land it doesnt own!
WTF?

Apparently..WE ALL 'deserved it' even an innocent child who knew nothing of the politics and this zionist felt quite justified in standing there telling all who'd listen that the people that died yesterday were murdered by the God of Israel ....effectivly, saying that God was a murderer who killed children - to score political points and maniplate peoples faith!

Like the father so the sons I guess huh....liars and murderers from the begining.

reply to post by Rosha


You people keep forcing me into your little stereotypes, so it doesn't even matter what I say, does it?
This location: Israel makes people feel like they can somehow disregard all of my opinions and just vent out at me.
Check yourself before you lash out at me, prejudice doesn't start and end in Israel.

Rosha, I have never in this thread shown anything towards the people of Gaza other than sympathy. For you to imagine that I somehow see them as second grade Palestinians is absurd.
For you to ignore the fact that right now there are two Palestinian governments dealing with Israel is absurd.
Why can't you admit that the second the PLO dropped its weapons it got the treatment Israel always said it would? It's right in front of you!

You know, ten years ago people were saying the same things you're saying about Israel and Gaza, only they were saying it about the West Bank and the Israeli blockade. And here we are, 6 years after Abu Mazzen started talking to Israel, and things in the West Bank have never been better. Yes, even before the occupation they were worse. Yes, even before the Jews arrived at Palestine it was worse.

Israel isn't the devil, it just wants to defend its citizens, is all.

how Israel really treats the rest of the populations of palestine, those who refuse to bow down to such a gloroious life!

It's sad, but how could it have been avoided? You want to let emotion run this debate, or reason? If Israel would have had its pick of where to fight Hamas, you really think it would have chosen a crowded neighborhood? The least you can do is be fair about how you see Israel, you don't have to like it.

not viewing them as equal human adults capeable of choosing and determining life for themselves.but rather as some child race Israel views a wayward children to be disciplined!

Maybe that's how you view them, when we gave them our guns in 94' they just took our guns and used them against us.. And 10 years later this couldn't happen again?
1) Read up on your history of the conflict.
2) Don't assume you know what I think. They've abused Israel's trust before, cut the emotional bull# out and get real.

They - the pre-existant and entire population of Palestine once roamed an entire land

And they'd still be roaming it today had they not all ganged up on the Jews in 47'.

owned it

Actually for the most part they didn't- Those lands were owned by rich Arab nobles, and they were all working for them.

wrote philosophy in it

Walked the dog in it, went to the market in it, bought milk in it, did laundry in it...
Give me a break will ya? And the Jews didn't?
What, you think the Jews just forced their way in? Took over? Do you know anything about this place's history?

now..those same people, dispossed

They wouldn't be if they hadn't started the war.

have now been swplit in two as a scheme of war

WHAT? Israel created the rift between Hamas and the PLO? Listen, Rosha, you need to get real with these insane accusations, this is getting too much, you can't blame everything on Israel, can't you see that? You can't let emotion rule this discussion, because you're not making sense anymore.

You are not their parents.

No, we're the neighbors which they used to shoot and blow up all the time.

You know, I'm starting to think all of this is just some kind of manifestation of your own subconscious views- The poor little Palestinian children are abused by their big scary Israeli uncle.
Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are children, both are completely responsible for the state we're in today, can't hold one more responsible than the other just because you're all emotional about it..

the zionists in Plaestine at the time KNEW it was THEIR land.

No it doesn't, for crying out loud, it shows that this particular Zionist had this particular views... For #'s sake, if I give you some racist quote from an Australian would you also take it that all Australians are racists?
Really.. And on top of that there are about a million quotes of Zionists talking about how they'd like to cooperate with the Arabs, and much more important ones at that..

And so they did.

All of this would have seemed much more sinister and corrupt had Israel not been *attacked on the day it declared independence by six freakin' Arab nations!!* which was that only thing that lead to the seizing of land.
Why the Jews were allowed by all six Arab nations to keep these lands is beyond me, but they did and that became the 49' armistice..
If you ask me the Jews should have been pushed back to the 47' UN lines, and that's that.

All that has come since..is because of THAT.

Yes. All is a result of the 47' war, I agree. And the 47' war is a result of WW2, and WW2 is a result of WW1, and that's a result of rising tensions in Europe..
See, we can all trace it back to the time where the Romans were defeated at.. Wait no, let's go further..

Or how 'bout we focus on the present?

And for THAT , Israel is repsonsible.

That, and anything bad that has happened in the middle east from the days of the Romans 'till the end of the world, right? No one else holds no accountability. I see.
What a balanced and grounded approach you have.

your doing a good enough job yourselves.

Sadly we do. Even more sad is that whatever we do to redeems ourselves is completely overlooked by those who simply don't want to see.

NOw yo say yoi didnt mean that... typical.

Well, yeah, I had a point you completely missed... Typical.

Yesterday I had to pull a single small childs body out of a home..and carry her across to the areas we prepared for our coroners today. I cannot imagine the insanity of grief..that Palestinian parents have had to face..doing this every day for weeks at a time....I can tho predict the result..as even in my situation..one child lost to 'an act of god' i became so angry..and deeply despairing....and I know that it is THAT that lies at the heart of all Palesntians today....a garanteed pin on a massive massive emotional grendade that when it suits your leders and people..they will use to destory them entirely.

There is nothing in this statement I can't agree with, truly and with all my heart.
What, you think just because I'm making a point that Israel's not "evil and corrupt" that I can't feel the pain of a Palestinian? That's the kind of polarity I'm against.
I hope you stay strong during these difficult times, I know how it feels like to be in that situation, I don't how you can talk about it so openly, I can't. Having a hard time thinking about it to be honest.

Oh and # that preacher. You want to imagine that this guy somehow represents Zionism? Go ahead, fill your head with hatred, see where it leads you.
Stay safe.

Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad

And they'd still be roaming it today had they not all ganged up on the Jews in 47'.

Odd, most people move on given time..
The Germans are no longer treated as th enemy..
The Japanese have flourished.

Many have forgiven past generations, yet YOU still blame what happened in 1947 on todays Palistine??

I really thought you were different and saw BOTH sides, but that ONE sentence tells me where you stand..

Both feet in the past, and even the past is a Jewish lie....

reply to post by backinblack


I don't hold a grudge, this isn't a "Serves them right for starting the war" thing, on the contrary, it's more of a realistic view of what happened and what it ultimately led to. The war led to the Palestinians losing their land, and as I've said, the Jews should have been forced to relinquish it and return to the U.N borders by the Arab nations.

God knows what led the Arab nations to agree to just give all these lands to Israel... Obviously now it's too late to give it back, or else I would have supported that too.

Heres an interesting number for those who accuse Israel of recieving "special treatment" from the world community.

Of 175 UN security council resolutions passed from 1946-90, 97 censured Israel.

Of 690 UN General Assembly resolutions during this period, 429 were directed against Israel.

Conversely, the UN kept silent while the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem and desecrated tombs on the mount of olives (just as it did when the arabs destroyed Josephs tomb on october 12th 2000)

Originally posted by dontreally
Heres an interesting number for those who accuse Israel of recieving "special treatment" from the world community.
Of 175 UN security council resolutions passed from 1946-90, 97 censured Israel.
Of 690 UN General Assembly resolutions during this period, 429 were directed against Israel.
Conversely, the UN kept silent while the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem and desecrated tombs on the mount of olives (just as it did when the arabs destroyed Josephs tomb on october 12th 2000)

So are you trying to say the UN is anti-semantic?

Or maybe it's simply a perfect illustration of who are doing wrong..

BTW, I wouldn't worry too much...
The US vetoed most actions against Israel and Israel simplly ignored and screamed it was all anti-Israeli propaganda anyway..

Funny how Israel calls the UN corrupt on Israeli actions but quotes them on actions against others such as Iran..

Hypocrits much???