Israel said it would keep Gaza near collapse: WikiLeaks

Israel is blockading the Gaza Coast and keeping the Palestinians out of that area because....

Natural Gas was found just off the coast of Gaza and ISRAEL is stealing that from the Palestinians.

Can't have the Palestinians with natural gas or money from it.....Israeli's are STEALING.

Only God will be able to stop them. Not even GOD himself could. Whatever God tried to throw at Israel they could shoot down with the Phalanx, Arrow, Patriot, Aegis, THAAD, or directed energy missile defense systems.

Thus their stealing will continue unhindered. Not even God could stop them.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Wild. I still don't get it tho.. U.S REALLY paid Israel to leave Gaza? When???

Listen Dave. Mind if I call you Dave cause you look like a Dave? When Israel was evacuating its illegal settlers from Gaza, Sharon was gimping back and forth between Israel and the US to hustle some money for the squatters.

Third Video

A waste of 4 minutes.

Oh and it's not a farm, it's a field, and it's right on the frikkin' fence...

Fourth video

Fishing voyage? This is just an exploitation of people's lack of knowledge.. These boats go out for a few hours and come back.. The Israeli navy boats aren't trying to sink those ships, just to ward them off. The blockade is a bitch, but that's another discussion.

Fifth video

This is a perfect example of pallywood- You are shown a boat on fire, approached by a small Israeli boat, and all they really need to do is tell you that Israel did it.

Let's start with the fact that had this boat been shelled it would have had a giant hole in it and it would have drowned.

Let's continue with the fact that the Israeli boat we see is not even capable of shooting shells.

And end with the fact that the fire seems to be coming from the lower deck, and not the main deck where anything would have hit it.

It's more likely that one of those makeshift fires they used to cook the fish in video 4 toppled over and burned the boat then a shell from an Israeli boat.

But really, there's no way it could have been hit by an Israeli shell and not drown.

reply to post by Eliad

Examine the video again- One guy is pushed down, and the other drops down instead of running (which is just smarter) and then crawls to the right, if I'd say anyone was injured I'd say it's the guy that dropped, but you can clearly see him laying on the ground when they're lifting the wounded guy away..

I urge you to watch again. You can clearly see 2 men pushing the van from the front. The one closest to the camera is the one that is shot. He falls forward. The other man pushing the van from the front falls backwards and he is the man crawling to the right.

And then the second shot, and no one even budges... They all get up as if nothing happened, even though they're still "under fire", and five minutes later they're all back to normal as if nothing happened, but they're still 'under fire'.. Seems unreasonable..

Watch again. When the second shot ring out there are 2 men in the frame, the one running from behind the vehicle and one with an orange jumper. Both react to the shot.

It just looks too much like they were waiting for a cue.. Like they're putting on a show.
What I really don't get is how there's no recording of the injured person. Notice how the intro text doesn't even say anyone was killed that day, it talks about a different incident where someone was killed.

You really think these farmers have nothing better to do with their day than put on a play for us? It is possible to be shot without being killed you know. Perhaps he was wounded and not killed.

It's all very confusing and I feel it's all a bit misleading and dishonest, the whole repeated "Why are you shooting" is an act of protest, not a real question, they know very well what the IDF's terms on engagement are..

It seems to be that their rules of engagement are to shoot farmers collecting parsley. Hmmm. I'd be asking them why the hell they were shooting at me.

The ricochet sounds have an echo to them, meaning they're coming from far away, a close ricochet will never have an echo, it's not possible, also it sounds like bullets hitting a metal target, not a wall.

Having never had a bullet whiz by my head i can't really comment on the sound.

Third Video..A waste of 4 minutes....Oh and it's not a farm, it's a field, and it's right on the frikkin' fence...

Farm/field whatever. You claim here is it 'right on the fence', so hold on a sec, Palestinians need to give up MORE land to Israel for an even larger buffer zone than they one they've already set? So what happens after that, a closer fence, a larger buffer zone, more land taken. It's their field. Surely you don't actually believe that they can't grow and gather crops from their own field just because it's within a certain distance from a probably illegal border?

Fourth video

Fishing voyage? This is just an exploitation of people's lack of knowledge.. These boats go out for a few hours and come back.. The Israeli navy boats aren't trying to sink those ships, just to ward them off. The blockade is a bitch, but that's another discussion.

Well yes we do agree that the blockade is a bitch. The truth is that the area that Palestinian boats are allowed to fish in isn't far out enough to allow proper quotas, and it is common for them to be shot at before they even reach the 'allowed' border.

Fifth video

This is a perfect example of pallywood- You are shown a boat on fire, approached by a small Israeli boat, and all they really need to do is tell you that Israel did it.

Let's start with the fact that had this boat been shelled it would have had a giant hole in it and it would have drowned.

Let's continue with the fact that the Israeli boat we see is not even capable of shooting shells.

And end with the fact that the fire seems to be coming from the lower deck, and not the main deck where anything would have hit it.

It's more likely that one of those makeshift fires they used to cook the fish in video 4 toppled over and burned the boat then a shell from an Israeli boat.

But really, there's no way it could have been hit by an Israeli shell and not drown.

OK i agree this video doesn't really show much apart from a boat on fire. And not speaking the language i can't tell what the man is saying. Can anyone translate?

How it ended up on fire is speculation on both parts, so you calling this 'Pallywood' and saying the makeshift fire is more likely the cause is just as biased as anyone saying it was Israeli shells.

Being a Palestinian fisherman must completely suck if you just get pushed back, watercannoned and shot at all day. It shows how much these people really need food and money to still keep fishing day in day out.

Originally posted by Ellen15

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

What the leaks show is that despite what Israel was telling everyone, it DID hold back supplies..

Who'd of guessed that Israel would lie.???
I'm gobsmacked.

YES Israel DID hold back supplies and CONTINUES to hold back supplies

US Government looks the other way because they've done the same thing to other countries

no

its another reason that I dont know

the US wants everybody to be free and wants to be the only tyranny out there, so, no, they dont want other countries doing mass murderer

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady

Israel told US officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis, according to U.S. diplomatic cables published by a Norwegian daily on Wednesday. Three cables cited by the Aftenposten newspaper, which has said it has all 250,000 U.S. cables leaked to WikiLeaks, showed that Israel kept the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv briefed on its internationally criticized blockade of the Gaza Strip.

The territory, home to 1.3 million Palestinians, is run by the Islamist Hamas group, which is shunned by the West over its refusal to recognize Israel, renounce violence or accept existing interim Israeli-Palestinian peace deals.

www.rawstory.com...

No doubt Israeli apologists and Zionists will give you all the reasons in the world why an occupied people should be put on a punishment regime that is collective punishment. By accepting their argument, you become complicit in the suffering of others.

It is worth remembering that the Nuremberg Principles specifically identified collective punishment as a war crime and crime against humanity. Most Americans are horrified at the current US recession and the unemployment figures reaching up over 10% yet the Zionist settler state claims that it wants to keep the Gaza economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis.

A humanitarian crisis is what has happened in Haiti, the famine in Ethiopia in the 1980s was a humanitarian crisis and and the Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans was a humanitarian crisis . Israel wants to squeeze the Palestinians of Gaza but promises not to create a humanitarian crisis.

There is over 50% unemployment in Gaza, Israel allows candy bars through the blockade but not food or medicine. Once in a while Israel will allow a truck load of live and aged chickens through and then on another rotten vegetable. Where the Palestinian farm, the Israel steal the water but if they can't get the water they kill the farmers. Israel destroyed the fuel stores of the Palestinians in the 2008 Israel siege of Gaza and now controls what enters or leaves Gaza. Fishermen are not permitted to fish is the sea and the zionist navy kills them at sea.

Beach fishing has stopped because Israel has built pipework to transport the effluence for its towns and cities and releases it on the Gaza coast.

Israel killing Palestinian farmers

Israel killing Palestinian farmers

Israel declaring a farm an automatic kill zone

Israel killing fishermen

Israel burning the Palestinian fishing boats

Do you realise the US tax payers paid Israel billions to leave Gaza? The Zionists are still occupying it and no one knows where all those tax dollars went.

edit on 5-1-2011 by Ilovecatbinlady because: typo

You are brave to post this! (I have given you a Star..) I see the apologists are out in force!
Vicky

reply to post by Nammu

Farm/field whatever. You claim here is it 'right on the fence', so hold on a sec, Palestinians need to give up MORE land to Israel for an even larger buffer zone than they one they've already set? So what happens after that, a closer fence, a larger buffer zone, more land taken. It's their field. Surely you don't actually believe that they can't grow and gather crops from their own field just because it's within a certain distance from a probably illegal border?

The borders are illegal and so are the settlements. If you read the BBC news articles on the conflict they almost always contain the following line :

All the settlements on occupied territory are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.

The problem is simple. Look at the paranoid US government with their "terrorism" fear campaign, and multiply it by 1000000000; you have the Israeli government. They fear anything that looks like an arab because of their fear that they will blow themselves up. So keep the arabs in fear by pegging off one or two here and there, and the rest will stay oppressed... HA! This is what is causing the terrorism in the first place!

The Palestinians, jews, christians, along with other groups lived peacefully before this abomination of a REGIME was created for a very long time. I say abolish the borders (create 2 autonomous states), change the region's name to a neutral one, let people travel freely from one side to the next, start economic trade deals, and it will make peace.

Palestinian violence does not come out of thin air, it is created by oppression which causes desperate, hungry people to use the only means they can to fight back. Take away the oppression, and they don't need to defend themselves, their rights, or their people.

reply to post by Nammu


Can't you see the guy you're talking about is pushed down by the other guy? He's still standing up after the shot's fired, unlike the guy that just dropped.

Look at the guy in the red shirt.. What's he doing? It looks like he thinks he ran off frame, and he's looking at the point where all the drama's supposed to happen. If the sniper was gunning for farmers he'd be dead right about then.

At the second shot he runs, but the rescuers act like they're not under fire at all, one of them is crouching at the same spot where the guy was shot, then they all group up directly in front of the Israeli sniper (the sniper is behind the camera man), and they start shouting for some stupid reason. They'd also be dead.

A real rescue under fire is a frantic grab of limbs and dragging *to the other side of the car, perhaps?*.

But these are all speculations, your conclusions are also guided speculations, what really makes me doubt this is the lack of ambulance or victim footage, the lack of a cameraman running towards the wounded to show the world what happens, no, he just stands there 10 meters away.
That's what doesn't make any sense. That and the guy in the red shirt, no way a man acts like that under fire.

You have to admit, speculations aside, something's fishy... The guy being pushed down, the guy in the red shirt just standing there, the cameraman not closing in, everyone crouching out in the open... Something's fishy, and we get no solid proof to deny it..

You really think these farmers have nothing better to do with their day than put on a play for us? It is possible to be shot without being killed you know. Perhaps he was wounded and not killed.

I'd imagine they get paid for something like this. Also why wouldn't they want to show Israel as evil murderers?

It seems to be that their rules of engagement are to shoot farmers collecting parsley.

I can tell you for a fact that it isn't, even more than that- You're not allowed to shoot at anything unless you're 100% sure of a weapon and an intent to hurt.
But really, if that sniper wanted to kill them, don't you think he would've easily killed more of them?

Farm/field whatever. You claim here is it 'right on the fence', so hold on a sec, Palestinians need to give up MORE land to Israel for an even larger buffer zone than they one they've already set?

You're right, and that's the point of these protests, but you can't deny the fact that at this distance anyone could just open fire and kill those soldiers, using the farmers as cover. You see the soldier's dilemma? Let them farm closer at the risk of your own life. And they let them, at the risk of their own lives.

Well yes we do agree that the blockade is a bitch. The truth is that the area that Palestinian boats are allowed to fish in isn't far out enough to allow proper quotas, and it is common for them to be shot at before they even reach the 'allowed' border.

I didn't know that.. How sure are you of these facts? How credible are your sources? Palestinian boats should be allowed to go out as far as they need.

How it ended up on fire is speculation on both parts, so you calling this 'Pallywood' and saying the makeshift fire is more likely the cause is just as biased as anyone saying it was Israeli shells.

How is it biased? A shell would have sunk that ship, period, it couldn't have been a shell.. The engine burning up is more likely the cause of that fire, an electrical problem is more likely, many things are much, much more likely to have burned this ship.. I'm not speculating out of bias, I'm speculating out of knowing what shells do.

reply to post by Vicky32


God forbid you read anything other than the narrative you support, right?

reply to post by Magnum007


It's in Gaza, Magnum, there are no settlements there, and the borders are final..

And you're wrong, there has always been problems between the different religions in the region- The Ottoman empire used to massacre Christians, the Brits took down Arabs with disregard, and forced Jews back straight to Nazi Germany at the peak of the war, and don't even get me started on what the Crusaders did to this place.

No, things were not all peaceful and quiet before the REGIME..

But I do like your ideas for the two states very much. Neutrality, peace, put the past behind and move on.

reply to post by Vicky32


Thanks Vicky32. The crimes being perpetrated against the Palestinians degrades all of us in this world. It is worse than many other crimes because it requires insouciance and the complicity of inaction from the rest of us.

We are witness to a great evil and the evisceration of a people off their land. This debasement is something of another age, the age of colonialism.

reply to post by Eliad

I can tell you for a fact that it isn't, even more than that- You're not allowed to shoot at anything unless you're 100% sure of a weapon and an intent to hurt.
But really, if that sniper wanted to kill them, don't you think he would've easily killed more of them?

You are joking..There are countless reports of unarmed people being shot..Including children..

You're right, and that's the point of these protests, but you can't deny the fact that at this distance anyone could just open fire and kill those soldiers, using the farmers as cover. You see the soldier's dilemma? Let them farm closer at the risk of your own life. And they let them, at the risk of their own lives.

It's their land..If the Israelis are so worried about being shot on the border then maybe THEY should not patrol it with heavily armed men..
BTW, how many Israelis have been shot across the border and how many Palistinians.?

reply to post by backinblack


Innocent people are shot down when mistakes are made. Most, if not all, of the cases of innocent civilians being shot is a soldier's error of judgment or a soldier not following the rules of engagement correctly or at all.

Your problem is you have no idea what combat is, if you had spent one day on both sides of the fence maybe you'd have understood how innocents can get hurt unintentionally in combat situations.

It's nothing like the computer game you must think it to be.

It's their land..If the Israelis are so worried about being shot on the border then maybe THEY should not patrol it with heavily armed men..

If we do that Hamas will be able to breach the border and enter Israel much more easily.
Really? I just had to explain that? Oh, whatever..

BTW, how many Israelis have been shot across the border and how many Palistinians.?

There are skirmishes on the Gazaen border all the time.. Just today 4 soldiers were shot on the border.

Originally posted by Pervius
Israel is blockading the Gaza Coast and keeping the Palestinians out of that area because....

Natural Gas was found just off the coast of Gaza and ISRAEL is stealing that from the Palestinians.

Can't have the Palestinians with natural gas or money from it.....Israeli's are STEALING.

Only God will be able to stop them. Not even GOD himself could. Whatever God tried to throw at Israel they could shoot down with the Phalanx, Arrow, Patriot, Aegis, THAAD, or directed energy missile defense systems.

Thus their stealing will continue unhindered. Not even God could stop them.

Another lie added to the list.
Look and read this:

www.cfb.co.il...
images.energy365dino.co.uk...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Eliad

Your problem is you have no idea what combat is, if you had spent one day on both sides of the fence maybe you'd have understood how innocents can get hurt unintentionally in combat situations.

It's nothing like the computer game you must think it to be.

You are SO right...
Computer games have even odds for both sides..

Something the Israel Gaza confict lacks..

If it were a computer game, those on the Gaza side would be complaining about the lopsided rules that only apply to them..

reply to post by backinblack


It really is amazing how zionist Jews can only see their victimhood over and above others. We witnessed the atrocity of the Israeli Siege of Gaza yet Zionist Jews bored the hell of outraged people from around the world with the 11 Israelis who died from heart attacks because of the sirens warning of the home made Palestinian rockets over a period of several years and there was also the odd missile that dropped out of the air that landed by chance on zionist heads.

This narcissistic conceit is born of anceint Asiatic superstitions where reality is relative and imagined nightmares are existential givens. This means that for the zionist, reality is plastic, where up is down and down is up and where the future is now and now is something from 3000 years ago.

This shamanistic view of reality was expressed in 2009 in the booklet derived from the teachings of Rabbi Shlomo Chaim haKohen Aviner's of the Ateret Cohanim yeshiva by the IDF rabbinate titled "Go Fight My Fight: A Daily Study Table for the Soldier and Commander in a Time of War" was published especially for Operation Cast Lead. The text of the religious instruction expressed the idea that the besieging Israeli soldiers should show no pity to the people living in Gaza particularly the children of Gaza who are guilty of animosity and hostility towards yet unborn Israeli children.

The zionist Jew booklet include a discourse of the unborn Israeli child telling of its fears and suffering to an Israeli soldier involved in the siege of Gaza. The Israelis killed 400+ Palestinian children with the repeated and deliberate targeting of schools. This hate speech document was distributed IDF Chief Rabbi Avi Rontzk in order to incite zionist forces to a frenzy and it was successful.

When you debate right and wrong with a zionist you engage with a person loaded with these plastic truths and metaphysical expression ingrained in them which you have no awareness. While you believe that you are aiming to have rational exchange with a zionist, you will find yourself in the shifting sands of unreason. You may think you are being manipulated or lied to but you aren't because you are confronted by an alien mind. A mentality totally alien to the New Testament or the Islamo-Christian belief systems that are based on mercy, compassion and justice. This zionist mentality is from an ancient time.

reply to post by backinblack


Your arguments are all over the place, we weren't talking about the balance of powers, we were talking about how innocents get injured due to errors, bad calls, and disregards of the rules. You just ignore anything you can't refute..

Oh well...

You really do see this conflict as some kind of computer game, don't you? This whole conflict is probably one big game to you.. Something to do to pass the time, isn't it?

How can I explain to you what war is, when you can't see past what's "fair"? There's no fair in war, there's only death. Come live a day in an Israeli soldier's shoes, I dare you.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by backinblack

 

Your arguments are all over the place, we weren't talking about the balance of powers, we were talking about how innocents get injured due to errors, bad calls, and disregards of the rules. You just ignore anything you can't refute..

You really do see this conflict as some kind of computer game, don't you? This whole conflict is probably one big game to you.. Something to do to pass the time, isn't it?

How can I explain to you what war is, when you can't see past what's "fair"? There's no fair in war, there's only death. Come live a day in an Israeli soldier's shoes, I dare you.

Mate, it was YOU that called it a game, not me..
I think it IS a game for the Israelis though..
They are in control and make their own rules..

I do note that you call it a "war", something Israel is NOT prepared to do as it would change the rules they have written..

BTW, I'd rather spend a month in an Israeli soldiers shoes than a day in a Palistinians shoes..

Click here for more information.

reply to post by backinblack


I said it *wasn't* a computer game, it's exactly the opposite of a game, it's reality. Well, not for you, for me.

I think it IS a game for the Israelis though.. They are in control and make their own rules..

A bit simplistic and childish, to say that Israelis see this as a game, wouldn't you say?
Hamas makes their own rules too, don't they?

I do note that you call it a "war", something Israel is NOT prepared to do as it would change the rules they have written..

The best thing that could happen to Israel is an all our war with Hamas, as Hamas is most effective when not dealt with head on.. So what do you mean?

BTW, I'd rather spend a month in an Israeli soldiers shoes than a day in a Palistinians shoes..

Can't argue with that.
I think every Israeli should spend a day in a Gazaen's shoes, and every Gazaen in an Israeli's shoes. We'll have peace the next day.