What did the Catholic Church ever do to You?

Vatican city has the lowest age of consent in the world - excepting regions that have no such laws.. (yes, you can legally have sex at age 12 in the vatican)

The catholic church, for the good deeds it does, is also a chief purveyor of hatred and scientifically stupid practices - e.g. anti-contraception, anti-gay anything, etc.

The catholic church has perhaps the most important, best cared for, and most valuable collection of art works, and more importantly historical documents in the world, and yet a huge amount of that material is unavailable to the world, despite it's incredible importance for the history of EVERYONE in the world, not just the Catholic church. Simply being powerful enough for long enough to steal and buy whatever you want does not give you the right to prevent the rest of us from viewing our own cultural history.

I could go on, but as an institution, the Catholic church leaves much to be desired.

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Nonwithstanding the semihostile OP...

In the words of the eminent Archbishop Fulton Sheen, a man who was sensible, beloved by vast amounts of peoples, non-Catholic as well as Catholic...
His words, in this old radio address, do have a ring of common sense truth to a Christian reading them, as much as they may seem to sting.

They dont sting...they only digust me further and add futher proof to the claims originally made that twisting Gods word to suit yourself isnt Truth...isnt 'of Christ'.

The RCC is NOT being persecuted by anything or anyone but their own sick minds and doctrines. Facing the reality and conseuqences of the web of lies and deciet they built for themselves.

The righteous anger and venting of victims is not 'evil' or 'wrong' and it is NOT "persecution".

Just as the forgiveness of victims is not permissiveness for them to continue the lie.

The stress the RC church is undergoing right now is a RESULT. One they CHOSE to accept would happen to them, when they chose to murder, rape, steal and assault. God didnt tell them to do those things THEY chose to do them! Its a self inflicted self injurous sick process, a deliberatly designed circular paradox designed to keep people enslaved to lies and to make dull or faithless people BELIEVE that they are 'like unto Christ'...another LIE.

The reality is, its just simple cause and effect being used as a spiritual and political weapon.

To say or imply the catholic church is 'like Christ' is, to me, personally sickening! If I didnt know better, it would be de-meaning to the actual sacrifice of God and the Truth that came through Jesus. Ultimately though, Truth will win out and I know that they are demeaning only themselves.

Christ is not a child abuser, political tyrant and murderer! Christ is not a religion, a building, a state or political group, nor is he the head of a group of armed people manipulating raping and murdering! Nor is he a political whore hidiing in the dark and secret feeding off the spiritual energy of millions and activly starving children to death!

The f*cking ego of these people is unbelievable!

If I am a serial sociopath or psycopath, murderer and paedophile and gather to myself other serial sociopaths psychopaths paedophiles and murderers - if we call ourselves a church via the twisting the words of God to suit our political ends needs and then use those words to terrorise other peoples into *believing * we are representatives of Christ Himself and so dupe them into abdicating their personal authority and property to us - if we then conquer all opposition to our claims and murder, rape destroy and despise ( disobey Gods law in every fashion ) anyone who doesnt agree with us thus excommunicating free will so that everyone who will not convert to my 'church' is viewed by all as "evil", it is then sooo EASY to again use "scripture" and fear to mke the false claim that "we are the ones most like Christ"...and so to again pervert the gospel into being whatever we want or need it to say!

Its B*LLSH*T. More importantly, this twisted logic switcharoo is a widely known simple to comprehend avoidance tactic used by every molesting child abuser out there and just because its being used and the words said by representatives of the RCC doesnt mean its any less b*ll# or any less an evil lie.

Everyone who works with survivors knows this 'story'...abusers blaming victims and claiming victimhood and persecution themselves in order to avoid accountability and responsibility for actions they chose - its as old as prostitution..its been done..and done so often and so much we are now immune to the sin and lie of it!

The RCC dont control God or the Truth..and CANT AVOID Gods Just Judgment. Nor can they deny the human consequences of denying the reality of individual and collective cupability and responsibility for their actions and inactions!! They can lie to people, twist scrupture, steal and whore all they want...they cant avoid the fact that God Knows. We know.

The RCC CHOOSES to persecute...and so, like every other human on this planet, they are also choosing to accept the consequences of persecuting! Facing the reality of the consequences of your actions is part of that process. They dont want to face them though..so now they are running away. Lying to save themselves...trying to hide behind twisted words and as is written..in trying to save their lives, they will only loose them.
They are a dying people. I only pity them and pray for mercy for their souls.
The consequences this institution and its followers will face are ultimately in Gods hands...the guilty however will not go unpunished. In Christ..we are assured of THAT!

Jesus Christ was persecuted and murdered solely because he stood for and told the TRUTH. Just as victims of RCC and all abusers around the world today are standing up to tell the same thing saying *this is what really happened* and we will no longer be silent! We are not ashamed.

The RCC would do well to listen.


> end of tragic soapbox<

reply to post by Rosha



The link that you gave me is a total fabrication. This is not an original document.There is no signature!!.
image.guardian.co.uk...

There was no press release issued in 1662 regarding cases of solicitation by the "Holy office" nice try though. Although there are cases that have involved sexual abuse, These are individual cases and in no way condoned by the church.Excommunication is preferred to 'covering up' crimes. Thats absurd!

reply to post by oliveoil


There was no 'press release' and so it didn't happen? The Church never admitted it therefore

!!!

It didn't happen? This is your argument?

Evidence has been given in this thread of coverups occurring in the present. Why do people distrust the Catholic Church in 2011? Because it actively covers up millions of documented cases of child abuse.

Or it could be the case that 27 million people [survivors] all conspired with each other to invent stories of horriffic abuse by the Church. Yes, that sounds plausible, 27 million people from impoverished conditions from around the world, with no common language, worked together to craft a consistent false story of millennia of Church violence and rape.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Listen to yourself. You are blaming the Catholic Church as a whole for individual actions.That's like blaming a parent for his/her Child's actions.

OP.... Here is a good question that should put everything in perspective.

What did the Nazis ever do to you ?

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Rosha

 

The link that you gave me is a total fabrication. This is not an original document.There is no signature!!.
image.guardian.co.uk...

There was no press release issued in 1662 regarding cases of solicitation by the "Holy office" nice try though. Although there are cases that have involved sexual abuse, These are individual cases and in no way condoned by the church.Excommunication is preferred to 'covering up' crimes. Thats absurd!

It is not a 'total fabrication'. That PDF is not a 'press release' and never claimed to be. It is a document sourced from the Vatican press's own files with a date of 1962 not 1662. If you do not understand the function of the Vatican press, then you are uninformed and need to go do some research.
Details of the documents can be obtained by contacting the 'holy' see or by addresing your query to the canon itself for verification if you so choose to do the research. Write the pope himself..ask if they are false documents!

I implore you not to trust even me..go do your own work..seek truth for your own being. I did and found this and many of the same kind of documents and more everywhere.

Priests need only swear to secrecy and they are absolved. That is the sum of that document.
These abusing murderous priests never faced criminal suit, never faced civil law, the rcc actively bribed and disuayed victims and maniplated them using the Gospels as their weapon of choice and the priests continued on abusing with immunity and impunity.

In my family, I AM responsible and embrace full adult accountability for the actions of my child until he is an adult. That is what being a parent means and is one of the social and moral dutys of parenting I oblige myself to uphold.

So too the pontiffs *are* accountable and responsible for all actions taken by priests *they employ* as they claim to be the father, of them , the children.
Moreso, acting as an *organisation*, a *state*, a *corperation,* a *government* they hold even greater accountability to vet staff, to hold to account each individual to their actions - which they did not do.
Even more, and like everyone else is subject to common law, they had the responsibility to the victims of crime and to their own integrity to ensure these men faced crimal law and were duely punished or imprisoned for their crimes - like every other criminal is.

CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IS A CRIME

Not an oversight...not a 'slip in morality'....it is a c r i m e !

Even more importantly, they had the DUTY to put in place transparent internal proceedures that made the occasion of paedophiles hiding out within the RCC impossible. Something they have not done, are not willing to do. Unlike the military where at least some civil oversight is undertaken, the Vatican refuses to put in place any system that will make it mandatory for anyone knowing of abuse to report it to the police - not the vatican police..OUR civil police. It is the only institution and state in the civilised world that has a caveat to mandatory reporting of this kind.


Why?

I am sorry you have been duped..many good people are and were. Dont shoot the messangers though, we have no need or reason to lie....we are not the ones with the problem.



Rosha

How the hell can anyone follow an institution who acts like that. If this were a company, people would boycott it!!

/end thread!

reply to post by oliveoil


If a child murders the neighbour and the parent helps to bury the body, destroy the evidence, move the child to a new town and get them a new identity, and excuses them for their actions, then yes they are responsible.