Jesus (Yeshua) was a Jew, who died for a purpose..

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by schuyler

 

Naming your dog after the most important figure in Judaism (moses) is what I meant by "disrespectful".

It wouldnt be anymore right if a Jew named his dog Jesus or mohommad.

And that's where I think you are WAY too sensitive. While I respect other religions, that does not mean I have to adhere to all their 'sensitivities.' Kind of like the Muslims getting upset because someone draws a Mohammed cartoon to the point of wanting to kill someone for it. I write God, not G_d. I eat pork. I cook meat and dairy in the same pots.

Moses is a good dog and he would be mortified if he thought someone was upset because of his name. I knew a dog named Joshua once as well. Another great dog.

Time for some religious tolerance on your part, I think.

reply to post by schuyler


You are pretty effing arrogant.

Im not even Jewish. Im a gentile who follows Judaism. Even as a person who subscribes to Judaism, i would make the very simple effort not to insult other spiritual traditions by naming my dog (an animal often used pejoratively) after one of their central religious figures. I wouldnt do it with Jesus, or mohomad. Why? Because i AM sensitive and tolerant of other peoples views with how THEY feel about those figures and what it means to them. And I wouldnt be so haughty as to ignore that reality in order to assert my own.

Your attitude wreaks of gnosticism and the pagan nonsense i just ranted about in my earlier post.

Funny you go on about coherency in post. Well your view isnt coherent; it doesnt adhere to a reality; that other people rightfully so ascribe holiness and sanctity to certain names. Of course a gnostic who worships sh*t wouldnt care at all. Instead he likes to antagonize people. Of all the things you could have named your dog - you chose moses. Bull# youi support Israel. And frankly, as a religious zionist, i wouldnt want someone who desecrates the name Moshe (Hashem backwards in Hebrew) by naming his freaking dog, a synonym for stupidity and greed, supporting the religious Jewish state (which im sure, you do do not support).

and again. Your whole G-d comment put my whole philosophy in perspective, relative to your much more conveniant and easy views.

When i see a reason for doing something, i do it.

I dont antagonize, becauses its pure vanity.

When it was explained to me why Jews write G-d instead of God, i was pressed with a choice. The reason is:In Hebrew, only consonants are letters. They are the "Body" to the vowel, which is the soul. So when writing G-d a philosophical point is made by substituting a dash for the vowel "o". You cannot know anything about G-ds true nature. All we see is the body - the revealed reality in forms which he has chosen to reveal to us. Thus, i honor that truth by putting a dash.

Not all people do it, and i dont look down on people who dont do it. But with me, i see the meaning and i sensitize myself to that reality by making the little effort of putting a dash in between the g and the d.

Not a big issue. But the fact of the matter is: effort makes a difference. with people, with others you dont know. Making the effort to do the right thing is what Judaism is all about.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by schuyler

 

You are pretty effing arrogant.

Im not even Jewish. Im a gentile who follows Judaism. Even as a person who subscribes to Judaism, i would make the very simple effort not to insult other spiritual traditions by naming my dog (an animal often used pejoratively) after one of their central religious figures. I wouldnt do it with Jesus, or mohomad. Why? Because i AM sensitive and tolerant of other peoples views with how THEY feel about those figures and what it means to them. And I wouldnt be so haughty as to ignore that reality in order to assert my own.

Your attitude wreaks of gnosticism and the pagan nonsense i just ranted about in my earlier post.

Funny you go on about coherency in post. Well your view isnt coherent; it doesnt adhere to a reality; that other people rightfully so ascribe holiness and sanctity to certain names. Of course a gnostic who worships sh*t wouldnt care at all. Instead he likes to antagonize people. Of all the things you could have named your dog - you chose moses. Bull# youi support Israel. And frankly, as a religious zionist, i wouldnt want someone who desecrates the name Moshe (Hashem backwards in Hebrew) by naming his freaking dog, a synonym for stupidity and greed, supporting the religious Jewish state (which im sure, you do do not support).

edit on 24-12-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

I do not understand your outrage my friend. It is a word, it is not the person. Furthermore, your view of a dog is not the view others have of a dog. Perhaps taking the time to understand this would lead to more peace and harmony in your mind.

But, I do not think you are here to discuss in peace and harmony. I believe by what you have already posted that you are here for nothing more than to make controversy, and having not found it by denigrating the Christian faith, have now resorted to something as silly as a dogs name. Your outrage is disingenuous.

Who created the dog? God
Who created the name Moses? Man

Which is more sacred?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by schuyler

 

You are pretty effing arrogant.

Oh, puhlease! Get over yourself.

Your attitude wreaks of gnosticism and the pagan nonsense

I have a vague notion of gnosticism and have read the Gnostic Gospels, but Pagan? Really?? I think yer just tossing words out there, pal. My religious beliefs are not at issue here. I have not expressed them.

supporting the religious Jewish state (which im sure, you do do not support).

You're sure about that, huh? Actually, you have no idea, no idea at all. You're jumping to unsupported conclusions. And you're not even Jewish. I'll tell ya, it's the converts that are the most intolerant of all. Look at you here, spewing hatred and vitriol, swearing at me and calling me names. What a poor excuse for reasoned dialog. You preach tolerance. What I see is you want tolerance for your own self and your own beliefs, but when it comes to someone else, nope. No tolerance at all. It's a one way street. That's hypocritical at best.

Few people would call my posts incoherent. That you do says more about your emotional and uncontrolled rant here than anything else. And for the record, Moses is not a greedy dog. He does own the dishwasher; I will admit that. But he's never bitten anyone, is not domineering around other dogs, and takes a lot of abuse from the grandkids without complaint. He's not two-faced or hypocritical; He says what he means. In short, he's a lot better companion than most humans.

Now, this whole sideways thing is not really on topic, is it? We were discussing the OPs belief in Christianity. So maybe we should return to that. If you abuse me again like you did in your last post, full of obscenities, I'll report it. Maybe someone else will do so this time.

reply to post by schuyler


You liberals are the king of hypocrites.

Im intolerant of brazenness, and insensitivity to others religious beliefs. I already said that i would take the care not to offend someone else by naming my dog after a sacred figure in their belief system - whether that be jesus, or mohommad. I find its an invitation for conflict and you must have been aware of that when you named your pet. So, i guess you want these sort of conversations. You like challenging whats acceptable and what isnt, and than priding yourself in how you debated afterwards.

You dont seem to respect others spiritual beliefs, but have a liberal, nihilistic *and pagan* "hey relax man" attitude., and you call me intolerant. Its your blatant disrespect that warrants my intolerance towards your views. And i think im completely justified in that.

Originally posted by schuyler
And for the record, Moses is not a greedy dog.

That's cute.

Could be a little of the ah Christmas cheer got into our friend there. Have mercy.

And I dont believe for a second that you just "casually know" about gnosticism. Right.

And i suppose you just fortuitously decided to name your dog, moses. That my friend is a clear statement - very gnostic sounding, of what you think of the Law of G-d, and thus Judaism.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


And Jews are the santimonious ones? Thats one thing that has always irritated me about Christians. Judaism says you should punish the wicked, and the christians go, with a sense of pride "no......show compassion for the wicked". Chistianity is so blatantly greco-roman its actually quite nauseating that some people dismiss it.


When it comes to the Jews - it doesnt seem to matter, does it? Naming your dog Jesus - a big no no. Mohammad - world war III. Moses, Joshua... any biblical Jewish figure. Go right ahead. Insult and demean the Jews by naming your dog Moses - after their most holy prophet... "relax man".

You really dont think very clearly Newageman... You speak of tolerance, but this isnt tolerance. Its okay to insult other peoples beliefs? Youre always going on about unity and acceptance, but apparently that doesnt imply any personal responsibility and correctfullness before one speaks.....or decides to name his dog moses.

reply to post by dontreally


Look, this is a text based forum - this person who you are attacking is a real and authentic seeker who I know is kind hearted, and who has concerns about the state of the world and of human affairs, his heart too is apparent in the action.
We know he travelled all through the ancient land to try to get a sense for it all, and that he even named his dog Moses just MIGHT (if you wouldn't assume and project so much) signify not his demeaning of the Jewish faith or tradition, but his reverence for it, looking for a way to express it, and hey most people love their dogs unconditionally. This reminds me of one of those Arabic Islamic insults. C'mon, I have more faith in you than to continue to go on thinking that you're going to take this dog issue to the max, and go to the wall with your brother over it.. Gimme a break.
I've looked forward with anticipation in the past, towards your contributions, but all I ever got in return was a slap down, not that I have any desire to get back at you in any way, just feeding back to you or mirroring, something you tend to do in your fundamentalistic exclusivity, which is hurtful, and not loving, although I'll be the first to admit in truth that this is what most people detest about modern Christendom, myself included as a real Christian, they call it Bible thumping (I call it leading with the chin), and you do this to people, Torah thumping. You're a Torah thumper, I have to say, and you try to come flying in and slam them with it, and it's painful! PAINFUL.
Not loving.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Funny how so many seem to know what Jesus was, while completely failing to see him for what he is and will be for all eternity.

I believe that we are only just beginning to understand Jesus, and that for some reason, maybe time, or the inner workings of the human mind and heart, the rise of God consciousness, whatever - he is now becoming more apparent in terms of his thinking, mindset, genius, and his spirt, love, and fierce determination, even as a revolutionary of sorts. But he cannot be used either. Cannot be wielded for narrow human self interest, or as a defence mechanism against our own transformation. We have no strategy for really dealing with him, he stood so strong on behalf of the human being in our struggles and our sorrow and suffering. We are weak but he is strong, as the children's song goes.
We must seek to understand this, I think, because buried in it, at its core, is an immense treasure of such magnitude and proportion, that it takes the breath away even to begin to understand, and the mind recoils from it, I've found, and it takes discipline to keep on coming back to it's reason, and logos, and love.
Whenever I have an "ah ha" moment about this, i feel the stirrings of my childhood innocence and freshness, there's life in it, freedom, joy, but it's hard with less and less people to share in such a thing. But that such a thing is lonely, is kind of absurd, when I really come to think of it, so this is my purpose here, to share the love and gain friends of like mind, and I don't even need to mention Jesus once, if I'm being true to him to the very best of my ability, there is no need to Bible thump a person into submission..

When we reach the end of this life and we arrive at the gate, we will not be able to access anything external to our own consciousness, not the Bible, or the Torah or any of this.

We need to think of Jesus, I think, as a remembrance of a love transcendant, and then live Jesus from that frame of reference, namely his own, and then the heart swells to the full and something small, a small spring from within, rises up into eternal life and we BECOME the same love, in participation with the creative process itself catalyzed by that same love, and then, at long last, we come into an inheritance that we did not work for. And then sower and reaper both rejoice together, as all things are made new again.

And the word is the seed.

Therefore the Torah as a first frame is also invaluable, unless, like modern Christendom, it's a purely exclusive proposition, instead of all-inclusive and capable of enveloping us where we live, in our deepest sorrow, and our highest joy.

Having briefly read through most of the posts....I find the banter quite amusing. My first question to everyone is......WHO wrote the damn bible to begin with and WHY!!!! All I see are arguements back and forth about a book that we are TOLD is real and right. Well I can see the Protocols of the Priory of Zion too. That document is real, is it USED or is there and attempt to use it for ill will there? I am sure it was written just for that purpose. The writer HOPED someone would take hold of it and run with it!!

Same for the Bible, it is a control device and has worked very well. Anyone ever study the REAL history, what is more plausible? ProtoplasmicTraveler's post on Rome ought to enlighten a few of you. The documentary "Ring of Power", which I believe was produced by a group of people from CBS who do not like at all what is going on, should also shed some light ona few things. But further investigation into the REASON the Bible was written in the first place and is ALL second hand and third hand conjecture and speculation, just to appease people and control their thoughts. How do we know these individuals even existed AT ALL. That is just pure faith right there!!!!

Believe in yourself FIRST, then believe in a higher spirit or being, we are all one and the same, there is no higher power if you can't understand yourself.

reply to post by daddio


All the Books within the Bible and the once that never made it into the Bible, are written by Man. The books are written by men with inspiration given to them by God.

A lot of the content has to do with moral values, and moral deeds committed by man. Our history books can account for all the evil deeds man has done in the name of religion, politics and God.

Who is to blame: religion or man?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Im sorry, Dogs symbolically are always used in the pejorative; that is - negative. They symbolize the very thing us humans need to rise above.

The connection of a Dog - which is innately lawless and bound by nothing but its own rapacious appetite, to Moshe - the Law giver of israel is by no means an accident.

Schulyer or whatever his name is understands the irony in his naming his dog Moses, and if he doesnt, than i guess he isnt as smart as he tries to come off.

I think he did it deliberately out of a contempt for Judaism(which is quite usual id like to remind you in gnostic/masonic circles)

His support of Israel to me thus doesnt mean very much. His support is probably of a SECULAR non-religious Israel where the Torah and Law of Moshe has no influence. Very often enemies of Israel or enemies in general draw close to the very thing they intend to undermine.

PS. I like dogs, especially my own dog who is arguably the cutest dog G-d ever created.

I think any normal christian would be bothered if they heard my calling my dog "hey Jesus, come over her Jesus". They would probably think "what a disrespectful and arrogant name to give a dog".. Yes. it would be. It would be an offense to those who hold that name sacred every time i call in my dirty, piss licking and puke eating dog.

Dogs are cute and loveable but they are the very antithesis of mankind. They symbolize mans 'animal nature'. Kelev - dog in Hebrew literally means "like the heart".

Thus the dog is like a symbol or simile between ourselves and G-d. We need to train and control our dogs just as we need to train and control our hearts and its tyrannical willfulness.

Moses represents the very opposite idea of what a Dog is. A dog doesnt know law - it doesnt understand or know right from wrong. If a dog was left without human intervention i am convinced they would go extinct. They are too docile and too stupid to fend for themselves and they would definitely eat something that would probably kill them.

Moses is pure intellect and understanding. Logic - discrimination between impure and pure.

So yuo see i get schulyers gnostic contempt for moses and for Judaism. He named his dog thusly either because he thinks moses symbolizes that - or, he has a contempt for Judaism. Either way, it is offensive. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by dontreally
Im sorry, Dogs symbolically are always used in the pejorative; that is - negative. They symbolize the very thing us humans need to rise above.

The connection of a Dog - which is innately lawless and bound by nothing but its own rapacious appetite, to Moshe - the Law giver of israel is by no means an accident.

Schulyer or whatever his name is understands the irony in his naming his dog Moses, and if he doesnt, than i guess he isnt as smart as he tries to come off.

I think he did it deliberately out of a contempt for Judaism(which is quite usual id like to remind you in gnostic/masonic circles)

His support of Israel to me thus doesnt mean very much. His support is probably of a SECULAR non-religious Israel where the Torah and Law of Moshe has no influence. Very often enemies of Israel or enemies in general draw close to the very thing they intend to undermine.

My friend,

I knew a Jesus once. He was a Mexican who slept with my ex-wife while I was deployed to Okinawa, Japan. He was hardly the righteous Jesus that I remember. I also knew a Moses, a kind old black man who use to tell me stories of his times in Korea when I was a child. He was hardly a law giver. I knew a Micheal, a Mark, a Daniel (who went by Danny). I knew a Joshua, a Rebecca (amazing legs this gal), I have a Sister Mary (Neither a whore nor a virgin). There is an Abraham, numerous Johns, Lukes, Mathews, and even one Noah, none of which portray the characteristics of the biblical names.

You are not a Jew, so what is your point? If you were a Jew you might know that the idol you are making of a name is a false one. You concern yourself with offense given to a name (something without life and created by man) while you are being an ass to your Brother who is created by God.

Would you mind explaining how your behavior is in anyway representing the Jewish values you profess to admire so deeply?

Is this loving your neighbor?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by dontreally


You make a good point. That's a strong argument for changing the dogs name!

Seriously, that made a lot of sense.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Wow, his point is much stronger, in the final analysis!

I feel like a cat watching a game of pingpong.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I really do honestly and sincerely hope and wish that you are not being sardonic.

Obviously, he wont change his dogs name. That isnt practical (if he loves it)

But i wanted to make a point and i did make it. Its specifically arrogant because people like him dont take the consideration to care what other people will think. Do i want to needlessly offend people? G-d fearing christians and Jews who hallow this name?

What you may not know is that a name represents 'essence'. This is the mystical idea behind names. This is especially valid with Hebrew. When you attach a holy and righteous name with a coarse and impure physical object, or reality that is incompatible with it; thats what the religious call 'desecration'. You can desecrate a Temple, a Shrine - basically anything that is accorded holiness, can be desecrated. This is what the Romans and Christians often did to Jewish temples. This is what the Palestinians routinely do to synagogues and sacred tombs like the tomb of Samuel or the Tomb of Joseph (look it up).

I may not agree with the Christian or Islamic or any other religious theology but Judaism, but i respect their right to peaceably worship in their own ways. I wouldnt want to generate conflict with them by using any of their holy names in a profane way. And i would expect the same empathy and consideration from them aswell.

I never said a human couldnt be named Moses or Jesus or Muhommad. Clearly there are many of them. These people possess the natural ability to 'live up' to that name. how they live is their issue. Giving a holy name to animal is an entirely different issue.

Animals should be given silly - quasi-human names, like 'maggy' or shadow. Something simple and silly to suit their nature. When people give serious human names to animals, i find it weird. When they use a sacred name, im offended.

reply to post by dontreally


The length to which you are willing to take this issue at the same time shows something about you in terms of your own relationship and friendship (or enmity) with your fellow man, which also makes a statement about your Jewish faith, at the same time, surely you must see that too..

P.S. And you cannot be certain that he will not change the dogs name either.

sardonic? me? (heading to google..)