Hatred for Muslims/Islam on ATS - where does it come from?

I admit that I dont like the elements where it seems Islamic followers try to impose their own standards of life, such as Sharia law, into the UK culture.
For me that sticks in the throat - I expect people to come here and adopt to the culture within the country, not expect the culture to change to suit them and complain when they dont get their own way. Some things in recent times such as schools whereby they are teaching Sharia Law, or advocating marital rape etc - anger me immensely.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I feel the same way in reverse - people visiting or living in other countries should adopt to the culture of wherever they are.

It also irritates me that when people who share my viewpoint express this we are deemed racist/bigoted etc. It is NOT racist to express annoyance with something like Islam - I genuinely feel that it is a backward religion that has no place in the western world.
Someone else made a very valid point - about the so called "moderate" muslims who should be far more vocal in their criticisms of the extremist idiots - to ensure up and coming islamics dont feel the need to follow the path of their extremist brethren.

reply to post by oozyism


Sure there are plenty of Miriam-worshipping sects, and so there should be, it's good to see the return of the Goddess.

Also there's a theory that suggests the Witch-craze of the early Renaissance period was a manifestation of the Archetype of The Hag, which is the result of the disclusion of the feminine counterpart of the Godhead in official Church Doctrine.

And that's the point here, official Church doctrine.

Mainstream pre-Islamic Christianty followed the dictates of the Church in Rome, and the official creeds of the Church. The Holy Trinity, as one of the central creeds of Christianty was well known and widely dissemniated, indeed anyone at this time saying that Miriam was a part of the Trinity would have been heretical.

So at that time the vast majority of Christians followed the official doctrine of the Trinity. There were a few sparse sects, and as we know, in the Arabian peninsula, that worshipped Miriam as part of the Godhead. But these were in the great miniority.

So, if the majority believed that the Trinity was the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And a very small minority for some reason (mistakenly) believed that Miriam was a part of the Trinity, why would the Qur'an, being the word of God, speak only to these very few, mistakenly-held beliefs, and not the majority who believed that the Trinity was the Father, Son and Spirit??

It makes no sense.

Occam's Razor. Using OR on this particular case would suggest that the most likely reason as to why the Qur'an included the belief that Mary was a part of the Godhead (when we know that this belief was held in pre-islamic Arabia), would be that Mohammed had heard it through those practising it at the time and included it in his spoken verse, thus entering the Qur'an despite the rest of Christendom believing that Mary had nothing to do with the Trinity.

I'm sorry but that is the most likely explanation.

Originally posted by MareBellator

Does this (largely American) hatred and fear of Islam

largely American, really? How did you manage to pinpoint all the "haters" of Islam as American when most people on here that express their dislike of Islam are actually European? This is a global issue, not some US vs. Islam crap.

It had seemed to me to be largely American - but I admit that part of that is that where I live (New Zealand) all our media are heavily influenced by the USA and most New Zealanders are culturally American - so I tend to see Americans everywhere - obviously here, I have seen what I expect to see!
Vicky

reply to post by The Djin


You are correct.

Quote: " Can anybody dispute this??? There is no flaw in these statements ( look up some of these Quran references and that is what it says).

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD CITIZENS?
This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish and send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the
five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.
The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....



They say they will destroy us from within - How??? by just breading you out conquering by numbers - think about it -it is already happening they will take over every field including .politics
You will not be surprised

This is for those who know what the muslim is and believes in. Not for speculators. "Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within".

Scoutsniper

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


Exodus Chapter 20. Very First commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Read the second commandment and it shall tell you "why" God is jealous.
Then again, I not an expert like so many at this site would have others to believe they are. "God Fearing" people, live by faith. Like obama said: " They cling to their religion and their guns". Yes we do. The line has been drawn. It is for every one to decide for themselves on which side of the "line" they shall stand or make a stand.

Scoutsniper

Well i've got nothing against muslims or anyone for that matter but I will share a little story as far as my experience with them.

Fairly recently were I am here in the states, a large group of somalians came over and purchased one of the few factories we have in a small town near me. Less than a week later we had the local news station running stories about how if you see a somalian sitting on your car to stay back and call the police which I thought was pretty weird.

Well I found out first hand when I was with a friend outside his house and a somalian actually was sitting on his car, we proceeded to just walk over there and get in when the man started wildly speaking his language, (not sure what, so I won't make a guess) and spitting at us over and over. All he did was yell, throw his arms around, and spit, until we pulled away.

There was also a local story ran about how the somalians were eating at local resturaunts and refusing to use utensils to retreive food from buffets, opting to just stick there hands in it no matter what the food. Some were arrested for it I beleive. Now I can understand traditions and being used to doing things a certain way but there are some things which people will have to adapt to and start doing, especially when it jepordizes others health and safety.

Well there you go, some of my personal experience with somalians/muslims. I assume they were muslim since all of their woman were always covered, and Somalia is very predominately muslim. I try to keep an open mind and form no opinion on the matter, I know the actions of a few do not represent the whole. But peoples thoughts are directed by experience and so far personally, all my experience has been quite negative.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Vicky32

 

I also live in New Zealand, and I'm a Muslim, and I'm an Afghan.

Many Muslims in New Zealand, Kiwis are happy with us, and we are happy living along side them.

It is a great relationship.

The rest of the world, they are succumbed by hate.

You're correct, oozyism...
My neighbours are Somali Muslims, nice peaceful people. I have worked with people from Syria and taught English to people from Oman, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait..
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32
I have been reading a thread about a news item from Austria - about a yodelling angry lawn-mowing man. I have utterly shocked by the fear and loathing of Muslims/Islam in that thread.
If people were to make the same type of remarks about Jews, they'd be pounced on so fast their heads would spin.
It's utter and blatant racism that makes me want to vomit in my mouth.
I have to explain my points of view.
I am a Christian, and an ardent pacifist. I have Muslim friends and colleagues. I live in New Zealand - and here most Muslims are refugees from Somalia, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan...
Does this (largely American) hatred and fear of Islam and Muslims come from fear (after 9/11), ignorance or from the kind of propaganda that Fox News is so famous for...
(I apologise if I have put this thread in the wrong place - I am a comparative newcomer, and I don't know the best place.)
Vicky

I think there are a lot of reasons for it but mostly it seems that Muslims push their agenda a bitmore than other faiths. In the US these days it often seems that christians are discriminated against, especially this time of year when so may object to christmas. SOmething just feels wrong about building mosques at ground zero while making people take down christmas trees.
It would help a lot if there was more forward speaking moderate Muslims, but we just don't hear much from them, what we hear are the radicals, is gives the impression that is all there is.
Most American I know want to be fair but they feel pushed into a corner. Muslims with things like stoning women for adultery strikes us as horrid and not a faith of peace. Its hard to reconcile killing men for being gay with letting gays serve openly in the military.
You tell me, whats wrong here?

The hypocrisy in this thread is amazing..

It's funny how some of the people who post here speak so ill of people the who hate Islam, and at the same time hate Israel for the same reasons.

Let's be real here-

Muslims hate Jews and Christians, Christians hate Jews and Muslims, Jews hate Muslims and Christians.

Everybody likes Buddhists.

Hatred comes from ignorance, immaturity or rage issues.

That's it.

Islam is no more hated than Israel or Judaism, and it is hated by the same type of ignorant people, for the same kind of ignorant reasons.

I wouldent say that most members here on ATS are anti muslim, it really is just a minority, but i guess we remember more or less the post that look to spite people, thats just my way of seeing it maybe. Its just so easy these days to find anti religion stories on the news, or blogs, id say its cool to bash religiions, it seems to be a majority of people staying clear of religions.

Oh and i guess the majority of ATS memebers are from non muslim countrys, so our great news outlets make sure we get our dose of big bad muslims.

Im guessing where heading for an all out fight on islam, where just getiing programed slowly but surly eeheheh.

Originally posted by Chett

. SOmething just feels wrong about building mosques at ground zero while making people take down christmas trees.

From what I have heard, it was not a "mosque at Ground Zero" but a cultural centre (which contained a small mosque) two blocks away from Ground Zero!
As for the Ground Zero cult - that as well makes me cringe. This from the nation that nuked Hiroshima - how's that for a "Ground Zero"? And with the destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan, had enough revenge yet?
Chett, I fear you may have fallen for some of that high-grade propaganda...
Vicky
PS - When my brother died 6 years ago, I gave his clothes and furniture to St Vincent de Paul to distribute to the very same Afghani refugees from the Tampa that Oozyism knows about... I know my brother would have approved...

Click here for more information.

First off I don't know why liberals like to call everyone who disagrees with them "haters,racist and Fox news watchers"for such a christian pacifist you ridicule well,you will fit right in here on ATS.

That being said after you read a few Jewish bashing threads you will see that most religions are bashed equilly here on ATS including yours.

I can only speak for myself but my feelings for Muslims comes from being threatened constantly from all media sources and the internet so mine is not one of hate or racism but deep concern when someone threatens me because of my way of life or beliefs.I am so concerned that I took to reading the Qu'ran something you might do before you become so judgmental...................christian pacifist.

60.4....there has arisen,between us and you,enmity and hatred for ever,unless ye belive in Allah and Him alone.

Originally posted by Eliad
The hypocrisy in this thread is amazing..

It's funny how some of the people who post here speak so ill of people the who hate Islam, and at the same time hate Israel for the same reasons.

Let's be real here-

Muslims hate Jews and Christians, Christians hate Jews and Muslims, Jews hate Muslims and Christians.

Everybody likes Buddhists.

Hatred comes from ignorance, immaturity or rage issues.

That's it.

Islam is no more hated than Israel or Judaism, and it is hated by the same type of ignorant people, for the same kind of ignorant reasons.

edit on 18-12-2010 by Eliad because: (no reason given)

It sums up to this:

Christians are old and weary, and sit down for tea.

Jews walk softly but never away.

Muslims are loud and carry a big stick, yelling at you.

Why my post to oozy got binned eludes me, he did say what I asked him, but then again, his stick is big,

lol

The Somalis where I live, mostly, are in gangs and fight with the Aborigines. The Maori are usually just normal hard working folk, but their kids fight with the Aborigines. The Asians are very quiet, but their kids form gangs and fight with the Aborigines. The Arabs are loud, racist, disruptive and fight with everyone.

I can't wait for 20 years from now when multi culture begins to work, or something,

Oozy will need to come over and tell everyone life is cool. Chillax bro...

reply to post by mustfarhan



I see, you're allowed to say this, but me asking a question is removed.

How about this for an answer. Make me.

I won't alert your post - it's off topic and offensive but I'm not that deliberately naive. But, you've just proven to me what I've said all along is spot on, and your star shows me I am right when I say you are not alone.

I'm intrigued now, can't wait for next time

Oh and Merry christ on a cross day to you.

PS I starred you as well, have a star

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
You confuse hatred of muslims for hatred of jihad.

The "hatred" comes from 1,400 years of nonstop Islamic Jihad against ALL non-muslims across the planet.

Wherever muslims interface with non-muslims there is violent Jihad.

Your question would be better posed to the adherents of the faith for which you apologize.

Why the planetary Jihad for 1,400 years? Why?

Exactly. Do not question those who are constantly effected by there nonsense, cause that is the reason we continue to show hate towards those areas. You should be questioning the problems between the two factions, not those who show a realistic view of what DOES go on in the world.

5 years living in London, tons of Muslims here, multiple trips to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and numerous African Muslim countries...and not a single issue with Muslims. In fact, I spent 2 weeks during Ramadan in a village 50km from Makkah being a 1m90cm blond white dude (only white dude I saw in 2 weeks) and wasn't treated badly once. I got invited for dinner, and even when religion came up and they found out I am an atheist, they continued to treat me nicely. A couple I met at the hotel took me to the market and translated for me because "that way I won't get screwed over by traders"...pretty decent of them considering I'm a dirty atheists who deserves to die, right?

Great post. Something that has been bothering me ever since the Ground Zero Mosque debacle. Just from reading the replies here, I see a stark difference between the two opposing camps here. Those who support diversity and tolerance are capable of identifying individuals and accepting the fact that each person has their own positives and negatives. Those who are against integration and diversity identify a person AS the groups to which they belong. A closed-minded person hears about this type of story and the person in question becomes A Muslim and One Of Them. It is no longer a man who happens to be Muslim having a hard time with his neighbor who happens not to be, but a Muslim asserting his dominance over the world. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is yodelling in general offensive to all Muslims? I think it's about the fact that the neighbor was doing it on purpose during prayer time, with the intention of annyoing the Muslim neighbor. If your neighbor waited until you and your family sat down for dinner and started playing his car stereo loudly in the driveway every night, would you think that it's his right and you should just put up with it? Or would you go out there and have words with the antagonizer? Anywho...it all comes back to the media, IMHO. The media likes to paint Muslims as one group, they don't like to admit that there exist moderate, conservative, liberal and extreme Muslims all over the world. So when the Ground Zero Mosque debate comes up, the people building the mosque are automatically lumped in with the people who stone their wives to death and blow themselves up. When the Muslim neighbor, a victim of obvious bullying, wins his argument it's a victory in the New Age Holy War instead of a dispute between neighbors resolved out of court. We've been manipulated into thinking that the CIA backed extremists who were allowed to attack us on 9-11 speak for or represent all Muslims worldwide. 9-11 was part of a plan and the current Islamophobia in America and abroad was the exact desired outcome. We are being divided so that we may be conquered. If the terrorists want to disrupt our way of life and destroy our freedoms, then they have accomplished their goals perfectly. The more we give into base, primal tribalism, the easier we make it for the New World Order to make their power grab and take over modern society.

reply to post by RicoMarston


I left out the fact that the Media portrays Americans as Christians and Muslims as outsiders. There's this unspoken implication in all the "Muslims Vs. America" media coverage that implies that "American" may be interchangable with "Christian".

Originally posted by scoutsniper
reply to post by The Djin

 

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD CITIZENS?
This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish and send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the
five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.
The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....
Scoutsniper

I deleted parts of this quote, beginning and end.

You said it Scoutsniper!

If only people would pay attention and get this.
Too many of them are living in the programmed politically correct world while turning a blind eye and deaf ear to the reality of the situation. Islam is the viral infection that is destroying the West.

Multi-culturism is ALWAYS Bad.
Historically it has been the downfall of every nation that ever allowed it.

Take special note people....
and tell me...
What multi-cultural society was ever a world leader in any field of human endeavor?