Hatred for Muslims/Islam on ATS - where does it come from?

ATTENTION

Everyone is going to play nice or you're going to magically watch posts and points disappear.

To me much of the contents of this thread are just more uneeded black-white thinking.

One side masks the fact that most muslims are nice folks just like us. The other side masks the fact that there are some very insane people out there who wish to see america/israel desytroyed.

So as long as people do not differentiate properly and look at stuff in more detail and without political bias, ignorance is perpetuated thread by thread, post by post.

reply to post by Vicky32


it comes from uneducated illadvised people who generalise the masses with the minorities

reply to post by oozyism


Obviously he didn't write it. He said it. Every now and then he would quote a poetic verse, which his followers would record, he was a talented poet, and that's all.


Funny how he often quoted, poetically I might add, 'revelations from God' that justified his own actions or things he was about to do, Aisha even once berated him on his convienent revelations.

See the following link and PLEASE READ IT ALL!

Just In time revelations

Secondly, you add that there was no Christianty in the birthplace of Mohammed? I'm sorry but that is complete, uneducated, ignorant BOLLOCKS...

Many of the tribes in Arabia had practiced Judaism. Christianity is known to have been active in the region before the rise of Islam, especially unorthodox, possibly gnostic forms of it

Source

Also, please read the following:

# Thanks to Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches, continuing trend towards the worship of Mary that is in full bloom today, Islam views the worship of Mary as a Bible doctrine. This is not true. # The Koran represents Christians as worshipping Mary as the third member of the Trinity, when in fact the only ones worshiping Mary, based upon the record of history, were the pagan Arabs who worship her idol in the Kaba AND a small heretic sect of Christians in the Mecca area. Obviously then, Muhammad believed that this sect # When Mohammed first cleansed the Kaba of the 360 pagan idols, both Jesus and the mother of Mary were worshiped as deities. The Koran strongly denies that Jesus or the mother of Mary are to be worshiped. What is interesting is that the Koran actually represents Christians as worshipping Mary as the third member of the Trinity in Koran 5:116.

Source

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]

See the above? That is in your Qur'an, go check. Does that not imply that Mary was a God? A part of the Trinity? If the Qur'an is the word of God, then how would a local misconception make its way into the book?

As for the book being written beautifully, sure it is, but I can think of hundreds of better written books in the west in the past 200 years, does their great beauty mean they must have been written by the hand of God? I think you must have very little faith in Human Genius.

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


Being illiterate means can't read, nor write.

Yet he was a magnificent poet?

That doesn't make sense, where did he learn poetry>?

Anyways.

They were pagans not Christians.

They were idol worshipers.

How did trinity get in to the Quran? Because GOD knows all. Get the logic? If GOD knows all then he probably (duuh) knew that Christians left their original faith and started believing in trinity.

reply to post by oozyism


You can be naturally good at poetry, he was a BARD, SPOKEN POETRY, as most of it was back then. His followers recorded it...you barely even read my post.

Secondly, my point was that a MISCONEPTION ABOUT THE TRINITY GOT INTO THE QUR'AN and that is that Mary was a member of the trinity, as was believed by various gnostic Miriam Cults that existed in pre-Islamic Arabia, so Mohammed learned this misconception from the Miriam-worshipping sects of the time, and IT GOT INTO THE QUR'AN

Do you get me yet? The qur'an implies that Miriam (Mary) was a member of the Trinity Godhead, which is a misconception that was widely believed in pre-islamic Arabia, if it was the word of God, wouldnt he have corrected this misconception?? The fact that the misconception made its way into the Qur'an is ample evidence that it was the work of Mohammed's mind and NOT GODS!

Personally, I am terrified of delusion, so I am not going to blindly believe something when I very well may being deluded. Does it not anger you to consider that you may have been trolled by the worlds greates religious troll, Mohammed?

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


So Mohammad was one of the world's best poets, one of the world's most informed individuals and was also a genius?

Is that what you are saying?

He sure knew alot didn't he? He must also be a historian, a scientist... etc

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Christians even today believe Marry is part of the trinity, type it in Google see what result will come.

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I don't think I have been trolled, I have done my research.

For a long time.

Been in a lot of discussion.

Was an Atheist for a while.

Was an agnostic for a while.

reply to post by oozyism


What are you trying to do? Are you trying to extract the positive things I said about Mohammed in order to inflate your own grandiose perceptions of him? As the 'perfect human being' as muslims believe?

Sure he was a great poet, sure perhaps he was a genius, but so are millions of other human beings.

And no, only perhaps deviant Christians may believe Mary is a part of the Trinity.

Official Church doctrine, which began in 325 at the council of Nicea and was formulated over the next couple of centuries states that the trinity is:

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity, one of the most important in mainstream Christian faith, teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons (Greek: hypostases)[1] in one divine Being (Greek: Ousia), called the Godhead.[2]

Ask any Christian. Just goes to show how uninformed and unedcuated muslims generally are on anything outside of their own holy books.

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


I don't think he was smart enough to know it all, and people back them were pretty stupid, he couldn't have made so many guesses and all came to be correct, but that is a whole different discussion, unless you are willing to go there.

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Anyways, as I said, people believe Marry is part of trinity.

There are also people who believe Jesus is part of trinity.

Quran bring forward both and tells the truth, that non is divide except GOD That is what Jesus preached himself, if you read the Bible he makes it pretty obvious that there is one GOD, that GOD is his GOD as well as everyone else's GOD. Nothing else to add really.

I have to quote this for truth.

Look, Muhammed was a murdering, pillaging, raping, looting, incestuous pedophile, and made the rules up to meet his need of the moment or to justify his actions - and THIS is the basis for Islam.

This is how "the religion of peace" treats Christians in Iraq

An other example of the tolerance and peacefulness from Islam

Before they started burning Christians, they practised with the most sacred symbol of remembrance the UK has, so do you know what? I don't give a rat's ass if I offend you, I don't care if I insult you, because your presence on our beautiful, stunning and god blessed Island is more offensive and more insulting than anything I could possibly say about Islam.

reply to post by oozyism


Sure Oozy, you see what you want to see.

Thats the name of the Qur'anic game isn't it?

About 10 years ago, as a young, liberal minded student, I started to get interested in Islam, and, it must be appreciated that I live in an area of the UK with a very high and increasing muslim population, so I've basically grown up around muslims. Anyway, one day I go into Rahman's takeaway to get the good 99p cheeseburgers they used to do, when, lo and behold, the guy serving me starts proselytising, he gives me a cassette tape, for free, called something to the effect of 'scientific predicitions in the qur'an'.

Well I was open-minded, I was a science student and was something of a physics-geek, I was willing to see what the tape had to offer, I certainly didn't dismiss it outright, I was willing to give it a go. So I took it home and listened to this guy try to make the most tedious of links between extremely obscure Qur'anic passages and 20th century scientific discoveries. I'm sorry but it actually made me laugh out loud at how someone could actually believe this nonesense. I remember thinking of how close-minded someone would have to be or how extremely prone to confirmation-bias they would have to be to believe this stuff I was listening to.

So I recorded over it with some of my music I used to make,

At least it came in handy bc I was pretty much out of blank tapes.

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


Instead of making up a story, you could have just said you don't want to discuss it, and concentrated on Marry and Jesus being part of Trinity.

reply to post by oozyism


That isn't a made up story, infact I've probably still got the tape, taped over that is, if you really want the evidence I'll even post it to you.

I used the story to highlight what your last post was ridden with, and that's confirmation-bias, you are totally biased towards seeing validity and truth in the Qur'an, so where I see an obvious misconception and evidence of human-authorship, you somehow still see divine revelation.

Your belief is fuelled by emotion, not logic, when u read the Qur'an or hear the call to prayer it fills you with powerful emotions, and then you use these interior feelings to justify it's validity. In other words you see a continutity between your interior emotive state and objective reality, lots of people do this and it's a fallacy, the objective world doesn't care about your emotions. Objective validity is not determined by what you 'feel' it to be. Indeed, real truth is often disheartening, and, well plainly dull. We believe things that make us feel good, which again is a fallacy.

I care about what is True, not what makes me feel good.

reply to post by WHITEHEAD


So you do want to discuss the issue?

Funny, it seems you are not confident enough to discuss it, yet you are just saying I have blind faith

Either discuss it, or stop it lol..

Only two options really.

The third option of blabbering, I won't go with that one unfortunately

Which part of the Quran do you want to discuss? Its moral, its fact based verses, its objectivity, its logic, its beauty, its simplicity (which convinced the people of the past), its complexity (which is convincing thousands today).

Choose what ever you want.

reply to post by oozyism


Well you haven't yet explained how a misconception entered the Qur'an, you're best excuse was something to the effect of...God knows all so he says all...or something, when Mary is/was never a part of the Trinity, bar pre-islamic Miriam cults of the Arabian peninsula.

You even suggested that Miriam IS a part of the Trinity, which she isn't and never has been. Yet the Qur'an seems to think she is, so where in the Qur'an does it say that the Trinity is infact the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by WHITEHEAD
reply to post by oozyism

 

Well you haven't yet explained how a misconception entered the Qur'an, you're best excuse was something to the effect of...God knows all so he says all...or something, when Mary is/was never a part of the Trinity, bar pre-islamic Miriam cults of the Arabian peninsula.

You even suggested that Miriam IS a part of the Trinity, which she isn't and never has been. Yet the Qur'an seems to think she is, so where in the Qur'an does it say that the Trinity is infact the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

edit on 18-12-2010 by WHITEHEAD because: (no reason given)

But you are claiming people did believe Mary was part of trinity, and I claim that there are people who still believes this.

What are you trying to prove, I'm still not getting your point?

Have you heard of MIGCM (Mary Is GOD Catholic Church Movement)?

Originally posted by Vicky32
Hatred for Muslims/Islam on ATS - where does it come from?,

It's caused by Islam itself. It's a damn stupid and dangerous cult.
Dangerous physically (especially for women), and dangerous mentally.
Don't blame non-muslim people for hating the cult.
One look at how the cult treats women tells you that it's worthy of hate.
One look at how the cult was started .. invented by a mass murdering liar and thief .. tells you it's worthy of hate.
For the record. I hate Islam because it's ignorant. I don't hate muslims.
I feel pity for them for being caught up in what is obviously a mind numbing organized cult (religion).

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Noone likes the thought of a chap wearing a belt full of explosives blowing himself up in the name of Allah. On the flip side noone likes the way the Zionist regime is controlling the media and pushing it's own hate campaign against the Muslims and hiding the fact.

the rest cannot be said for the more fanatic Christians out there. I hate to say this to you, but your post deserves an honest approach and response: All religion is based in pure falsehood and serves to exploit human weakness in order to make money out of it, fact!

Regards,
T

edit on 17-12-2010 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

First, I want to say Benevolent Heretic, I really like what you said!
Further, to torqpoc, obviously I can't agree with you about religion! To me, it's the misuse of religion that's the problem, not the thing itself.
An interesting fact that many people don't know - the practice of suicide bombing began with the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka in the 1980s, and of all suicide bombings up to when the study I read was done, I think 2001, Muslims had actually done only about 15% of suicide bombings - I hate to push more American buttons, but most had been done by Communists!

reply to post by Vicky32


Guess it boils down to everything in "moderate portions" is dead and gone.

So the right one has to express himself about what one likes and dislikes about various topics, often go into something resembling "fanaticism" and "extremism", At least, when they express themselves about what they feel uncomfortable with

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents." [Robert F. Kennedy, 1964]

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