Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I would say, you are welcome. Anything beyond that could be misconstrued. As I have said, it is not problem if the person looking has a problem with what God gave my chest area. And that problem can include someone whose self control is lacking.

Sorry but you keep talking about this lack of self control, what exactly do you mean? Do you honestly believe a man in the workplace is going to see your chest and be so overcome with desire he flings himself at you, burying his head so far down your cleavage it's like he thinks the ambrosia of the gods is at the bottom of it?

Also don't move the goalposts, this thread was about cleavage affecting promotion chances and how you are perceived in the workplace not men losing control at the sight of some skin. Business has certain standards and if you don't go along with them then you will miss out. However this isn't a female only problem, if men don't stick to certain dress standards then they will also miss out.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Kailassa

 

cleavage isn't the issue. she could've covered herself, head to toe, in loose fitting garments, and if she was attractive and ample busted, same problems would arise.

The thread is about cleavage.
That was the OP's decision.

Just because you discovered the men you worked with were sexist turds doesn't mean all men are like that.
Many guys want to do the right thing by women, and it can help if we dress with some consideration. I've worked with men who were so sexist, (Aussie footballers,) they all stripped naked to greet me on my first day to frighten "this woman" off. But I stood up to them and stayed, and regarded myself, while at work there, not as a woman, but as a trainer. Before long they were regarding me that way too. By the end of the year I had their respect, (knocking the biggest bully out cold had helped with that,) and we were all good mates.

Even when guys do act stupid and sexist, often they're quite decent underneath, if you get to know them.
Seeing how the various people acted during community emergencies in the bush, floods, fires and droughts, showed me that.

Sometimes a woman just needs kindness, a sense of humour, and plenty of follow through on that right hook.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I would say, you are welcome. Anything beyond that could be misconstrued. As I have said, it is not problem if the person looking has a problem with what God gave my chest area. And that problem can include someone whose self control is lacking.

Sorry but you keep talking about this lack of self control, what exactly do you mean? Do you honestly believe a man in the workplace is going to see your chest and be so overcome with desire he flings himself at you, burying his head so far down your cleavage it's like he thinks the ambrosia of the gods is at the bottom of it?

Also don't move the goalposts, this thread was about cleavage affecting promotion chances and how you are perceived in the workplace not men losing control at the sight of some skin. Business has certain standards and if you don't go along with them then you will miss out. However this isn't a female only problem, if men don't stick to certain dress standards then they will also miss out.

Yes, on a woman that's not attractive, cleavage shown is utterly repulsive, on '"attractive" women, it's just plain distracting. Either way, it's a big fail in a working environment.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


they are not sex organs. they are food organs. scientifically speaking, of course. can't say their sensitivity means they are sexual in nature, as your neck has sensitve spots to but you're allowed to show your neck in the work place, in most of the western world.

while i wouldn't personally go into the work place with cleavage showing, the fact is even in a well tailored suit, if you're large breasted, it's gonna be obvious, it's gonna be distracting to people that have trouble separating biology from intellect. women have went to great lengths to lessen this particular stereotype, either by having them mangled via surgery, or starving themselves to death in hopes they'll shrink. while flat breasted women try to have more attached artificially, so people don't assume they are just pretty men, or young children.

fact of the matter is, it's a stereotype in the first place, meant to blame women who are well endowed or women who are not well endowed, for being themselves.

i understand a work place may have a dress code, but did tater's work place have such a dress code ? like you may not wear a v-neck?

reply to post by Kailassa

Just because you discovered the men you worked with were sexist turds doesn't mean all men are like that.

See, thats the thing. This I think its the norm. Men are sexist. Period. Just because they don't show it at work or in public doesn't mean they are not sexist. And just because they called her jugs doesn't make it demeaning. They simply observed, didnt know her name and labeled her by her attributes. Why is that bad? Its not. I bet its safe to say more than half if not all of them would open the door for her, or help her carry something that is heavy or something of that nature. Is that sexist as well?

Especially in a group, men are even more "sexist." But the thing is, I would say a majority of women accept and understand that. I have had a number of occasions here Im in a group with guys and theres a girl or two around. Dudes will be just as sexist if not more with the women around (in a joking manner) and the girl finds it funny or shrugs it off or doesn't think much of it because that is the natural way guys are. Most females get this.

Men are sexist, and as long as it is not in a demeaning way, I see nothing wrong with that. In fact I see it as a natural thing. Of course there are boundaries. But I see that as more of a human thing rather than a gender issue.

Originally posted by bigrex
You ought to feel confident when you're not showing your you know what, I'm sorry that society has succeeded in programming you otherwise. Well, folks, there you have it, she basically admits that she doesn't give a bleep about others, it's all about her, me, me. I think the root problem is how we've raised this generation, men and women, to think they are entitled, no even it is our obligation to bend to their will even when it treads on others rights. Spoiled, selfish ways cause societies to fail, it's the antithesis of society.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Yeah and it's just struck me that the OP is probably loving the attention of this thread, even if it's negative. We do live in an age where it seems most people think they deserve this and that without working for it and if they don't get what they want then the world is the problem and not their own behavior.

...is it a specific generational thing?... i dont think so... 40yrs ago there were women like that - actually, there were more back then than now... that ilk has always been around - probably always will be, just like there'll probably always be males who go slap-dawg crazy at the sight of tits (veiled or not)...

...ya know - if the issue had been that her employer told her she had to wear pants or long skirts because she had a tattoo on her calf and the "no exposed tattoo" rule applied to everyone, this wouldve been a very short thread - but - sex sells, always has... she knew that and used it to get what she wanted...

...in spite of all the reasons why, its been an interesting thread...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


it's bad because my name was on my name tag and guess where my name tag was? i knew their names. and didn't think of them as guy with scraggly stubble or dude with sweaty arm pit syndrome. (cooking can be a sweaty job)

reply to post by hotbakedtater


there's nothing powerful about breasts. and i haven't met a straight man yet that's scared of them

but you can tell when a woman is intentionally trying to show off as much as possible and when she's just wearing something that looks nice, and she happens to have large breasts.

i trust the discretion of managers, etc, to decide who would be an appropriate pick for a job. you don't want someone who's going to be dressing inappropriately or acting inappropriately around partners/competitors/investors, etc.

This would not be an issue if everyone had boobs. Hence, boob envy. I admit that I have it, but I am also a big enough man to admit that. They are just tits, if they are distracting you, you already were distracted by them. In my humble opinion, the fact that boobs are taboo is ridiculous.

If a man and a woman are hunting, and she is wearing a low cut shirt, that's no excuse for why she fell the buck and he didn't.

they are not sex organs. they are food organs. scientifically speaking, of course.

scientifically, of course. But we all know otherwise. They are sexual organs. They help stimulate. Many women are turned on by foreplay wth nipples and breasts, as are many men.

the fact is even in a well tailored suit, if you're large breasted, it's gonna be obvious, it's gonna be distracting to people that have trouble separating biology from intellect.

agreed. but it will ceratinly help if in fact they are covered. It would help to remind the man or woman that this is a place of work and thats what we are here for.

women have went to great lengths to lessen this particular stereotype,

Agreed, I have mentioned this in previous posts of mine. But again, I don think you can change or alter human nature. And Im not even talking about large breasts here. For many men, including myself, proportionality is much more attractive than large breasts. Many times large breasts come with large bodies, and when these are showcased its quite unattractive and just as inappropriate at work.

The covering up part just aids in protection of all parties involved. Male and female, worker and superior.

fact of the matter is, it's a stereotype in the first place, meant to blame women who are well endowed or women who are not well endowed, for being themselves.

Well, I dont find it as a blame or fault on anyones part unless theres malicious intent involved with some harrassment.

I find the fact that breasts play a role in a womans professional atmosphere a natural occurence, again, unfortunately. Its just finding the best way to deal with the issue and minimizing "their" role is the hardest thing. And in my opinion the best way is to have them mostly covered. It just makes "them" less of a factor, I think.

reply to post by snusfanatic


the issue is, others will project onto you, their unprofessional thoughts at seeing your attributes. this is the entire crux of the problem, which could be solved, if we just went back to teaching men how to exercise control over their biology with their intellect. right now, we're doing the opposite, as a culture.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


yea,good reply but i gotta add one more to this. you can't say that discrimination against breasts is sexist harassment and a conspiracy against female sexual power, and then say breasts aren't sexual. breasts ARE sexual. part of being professional is dressing professionally. everyone has to deal with this, men and women.

reply to post by undo


i'm not sure i understand. if you're dressing appropriately and someone discriminates against you for having breasts, then that's sexual discrimination. if you're dressing inappropriately and they decide that you're not acting professional then that's not discrimination. i trust people to make good decisions on this, and i trust that if they don't then the woman can take them to court and get damages. this question kind of answers itself, if its discrimination its discrimination, but if its not its not. surely you'd agree that there is such a thing as showing too much in the work place.

reply to post by undo


Of course not, your a female. But Ill bet you thought "eeewww, I wouldnt be caught dead outside of work with any of those dudes...what scumbags!" lol maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but if you did would that make you sexist?

I think not, you would be making a natural judgement about the opposite sex and an inherent call as a woman about the validity and resourcefulness and stability and strength and all the other things that run through a womans mind when they are around a particular group of men.

Its natural. Doesnt make you a sexist.

I can guarantee you with 100% that each one of those men had a similar thought about you (not all day long or all the time of course), and that is whether or not they would sleep with you. Is that sexist? Or natural? In my mind, very natural. Whether they verbalized it or not is a different story, and if they did they should be punished. And if they gave you any different treatment, they should be reprimanded. But calling you by an attribute because they didn't know your name is hardly demeaning.

This is a joke, right. Maybe they didn't pass over the women because they showed their sumptuous sacs. Maybe SOME women who show their sumptuous sacs are more likely to be underhanded and manipulative. However, if your girls are really big and just need some air, I am sure you do not fall into this category. How would you feel, and let's say I look like Brad Pitt, if I showed up to work in pants so tight that you can see the rather large grapes and sausage. Now, I might get some attention from a female boss. I might even get a promotion. But I also might have to deliver a package to get that promotion. I should just show up in a yellow banana hammock.

Kidding aside, and the ladies might throw veggies at me for this, but they are only virtual, so who cares, this is another case (from a man's perspective) of "having one's cake and eating it too." Back in the day, women had to use wiles to get what they wanted. They had to generally be more indirect. Net necessarily subtle, but more indirect than men at least. One such tool was sexuality, in addition to charm and cunning linguistics and the like. All one package really. Then, they get that newfangled equality (a poor word IMO, I think equality or equilibrium is like a state of nothingness in which the dance of creation dies, but I am sure we mean equal value, not equal as in absolutely equal.). Under this equality, women's ideas and thoughts are respected on their own merits, just like men. However, when this fails, women can play the ace card of sexiness (not saying men and other women don't encourage you). Perhaps showing your melons too much betrays a lack of confidence, that you have already resorted to plan B. Or maybe your boobs are so delicious that the bossman can't think around you. Therefore, you cannot be a colleague if you make the boss a dribbling idiot. Or maybe all the women with small breasts are jealous and they sabotage you behind your back? Who knows, really. I do need to test the flip side though. I am going to work tomorrow with tufts of chest hair protruding and package perfectly enveloped, sort of like the penis version of han solo in carbonite. You get the picture, and what a glorious one it is. Now we have a thread about boobies and schlongs. I feel like I am in elementary school all over.

reply to post by snusfanatic


what i'm saying is, 2 ladies could go to the same store and buy the same v-neck shirt. one would naturally be more conservative in appearance due to less than ample breasts, the other would be a little more risque' because she has more ample breasts, and why is that? she was born that way. but we punish her for wearing a size appropriate shirt, due to the ampleness of her breasts. she must therefore choose clothing that not only covers her breasts loosely (we're talking shirts that are at least a couple sizes too big for her), but doesn't perchance show some cleavage when she has to bend over for any reason, even slightly, which a larger shirt may do anyway, due to it's lack of form fitting. we're asking an awful lot out of ladies who just want to go to work dressed in a way they feel is most flattering to their personal appearance.

some guys wear neru jackets because they compliment their appearance. some wear double breasted suits, cause they compliment their appearance. a large breasted woman has to determine how her appearance in particular will be distracting in the work place, if she dresses in clothes that are complimentary to her appearance. which is where the problem is. unless there literally is a dress code that says you can't wear a v-neck, some ample breasted women will naturally show some cleavage in a v-neck, even if it isn't a deep v.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


i was a married mom. i wasn't thinking about them as sexual prospects at all. i was thinking of them as human beings, i work with, that have names, and are more than the size of their protruding parts.

reply to post by undo


i get all of this. but it's work. as long as there's some kind of ample warning to women and no catch-22 (no promotion for cleavage, no promotion for wearing baggy clothes), then so what? i'm not saying there's not room here for discrimination. there's creeps everywhere. but the whole OP "this is men scared of females" thing is ridiculous.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I am a woman with fairly big breasticles (LOL) But I think cleavage shouldnt be in the work place. Honestly, Woman with big breast with low cut tops disgust me...and unfortunetly yes, they are distracting to male co workers, it has the potential to create office gossip, and quite frankly, is immature to do. Show some professionalism, if you want to be taken seriously in the office, take the responsible to dress accordingly. Secondly to much cleavage to me, is like showing of your ass crack... now that IS NOT attractive... and neither is the 5 inch cleavage busting through your top... Its gross..grow up and get over yourself, and you claim that your breast are your "Best" assets.... that shows how insecure you are about your abilities in the work place, your best asset should be your brain, your punctuality, your customer service skills, ect ect not your cleavage!

reply to post by undo


Ok i'm not an expert on female fashion (or male fashion for that matter) however i have seen plenty of professional women with very large breasts who were conservatively dressed and looked very good. They didn't have to show cleavage just because they had large breasts, in fact i remember one manager at an office who had some rather massive breasts and i can't imagine how hot she must have been in the summer covering them up. But it's nothing different to the guys who have to wear shirt and tie every damn day.

Stop making excuses, there are no reasons to show them off other than having your ego stroked. Outside of work that's fine, at work no sorry it's not a place for fashion or to get attention for how hot you look.