True Patriots Are Christians

Originally posted by Equinox99
NOTE The OP has described the actions of all Christians based on the views of some. This idea is ludicrous to think that patriots are only Christians. This leaves me to believe that this thread was open with the sole intention to receive quick stars and flags. Now that you have succeeded, tell me, did you ask other Christians if they thought they were the only patriots before staring a debate with one person?

What do you hope to accomplish with this thread? From what I read no one is really debating the idea, just another Christian bashing thread. From what I read everyone is on the side that Patriotism doesn't stem from Christianity alone. I knew this would happen and you knew this would happen.

Not all Christians are patriots, but there are more Christians than any other belief. So statistically, it would be correct to assume that there are more Christian patriots than the latter. But not all true patriots are Christians.

I would have to review mamabethe's post about patriotism and Christianity before I can make a conclusion if she was right/wrong. But from what she wrote on this thread, she was not insinuating that all patriots are Christians.

She was stating it from a statistical point of view, which should be close to the correct amount. There are more Christians in the US so there are more Christian patriots than every other belief system individually.

edit on 13-12-2010 by Equinox99 because: spelling

I was hoping to open debate about a statement I disagreed with. Mission accomplished. 24 flags and thirty stars is really not that many compared to most threads, and look at my stats, I don't NEED any more, do I?

Thanks for your reply.

Here is a link to the Original Thread containing the statement and the context, for your perusal.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Unilluminist

Most atheists are secular humanists, this is pretty much a religion without a god and causes much of the support for socialism, communism, and it is generally a pro NWO ideology that supports 1 world government.

Sigh.... this old chesnut of an argument. Atheism isn't a religion, , there's no religion for not believing in alchemy or astrology. Religion makes the positive assertation, yet atheists are the one who have formed a religion?

Stalin, for example, was an atheist, but his ideology wasn't formed out of a lack of belief in God, and it certainly wasn't done in the name of Atheism.

I say i have a diamond for a penis, you don't believe me, your non-belief is not a religion.

We don't get butthurt because someone blasphemises dogma, because atheists have no dogma. We don't have special rules that say how you can have sex or who with.

We don't appear smug and arrogant enough to KNOW that there is a divine being and proceed to tell everyone what he wants.

This is a short question, but isn't atheism a lack of belief? Thus atheism can NOT be a religion?

reply to post by hotbakedtater


How can Christians be trusted with the stewardship of a country, when they can't even be trusted to follow their own religion?

They don't cast off their possessions, they don't leave their families and follow Christ and trust God to provide for them, they don't give all they have to the church, they fiddle with their worthless fashionable clothes and haircuts, they drive cars and care about appearances.

There is nothing Christian about the VAST majority of modern Christians. And indeed, this goes for most modern western religions as well.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


What i said; they make a positive assertion, the burden of proof is on them, to this day their "proof" has still been found wanting.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


The statement " You have to be a christian to be a patroit" is a bunch of BS.
One more way TPTB divide the population from each other.
There are alot of us PAGANS, which have served our country for years, some in very high positions within the pentagon, and are true patroits to the bone.
So when I see comments like that it really rankles me. Usually the person that makes the statement has never served in the military. And just wants to puff up there own glass EGO......

reply to post by hotbakedtater


By definition, Atheists do not believe in dieties/gods/higher-powers, nor do they believe in religion.

So, yes...Atheism cannot be a religion. There is no "practicing" Atheism.

reply to post by RSF77


Why does our ability to go kill Arabs for an unjustified holy war equate to the patriotism or love for our country?

Personally, I know plenty of conservative, liberal, and everywhere in between people who care deeply for our country. Just because they don't plan to show it by murdering people in the name of big oil doesn't mean they don't love their country very much.

I really don't find anything bad about Patriotism, myself. Most of us born in this country die in this country. I do love my country, it is beautiful. The people that live here are good people. Would I defend my country? As I am old and fat, the army won't have me, but if we were invaded, I do believe I would fight.

Also, Patriots are willing to fight their own governments if the government is ruining our country.

many americans live in a bubble of self obsession, being patriotic is a good thing when watching your nation play sports in world tournaments (the world series does not count) and when your country is under threat from invaders ( could be why the north koreans are so patriotic). it should not be used to fuel racism or to act like a prat and it has nothing to do with religion as north korea proves. patrionism exists world wide and not just in the usa but as i said earlier, many americans live in a bubble of self obsession, its just a shame that most cant see out of it!

reply to post by awake_and_aware


It just so happens that most atheists are secular humanists, and it just so happens that most secular humanists want world government and work toward that end. Thus it is reasonable to assume that if atheism is spread it increases the amount of people that are pro nwo. Even though Zeitgeist exposes the NWO, they try to spread atheism, and they call for a world government, that shows even atheists who expose the NWO can't change their ways, they just want to replace it with their own NWO. At least most Christians are not pro-NWO except for Christian Zionists.

Originally posted by zcflint05
reply to post by RSF77

 

Why does our ability to go kill Arabs for an unjustified holy war equate to the patriotism or love for our country?

Personally, I know plenty of conservative, liberal, and everywhere in between people who care deeply for our country. Just because they don't plan to show it by murdering people in the name of big oil doesn't mean they don't love their country very much.

I didn't say anything about killing Arabs in a holy war, where did you get that from? I was remarking on that persons comment saying religious people shouldn't have to be soldiers. You are saying something completely different, why do you care so much for them anyways? They killed thousands of American civilians and danced in the streets, they would just as soon kill you as they would look at you and you think its unjustified that we go over there and kick them around? What if one of your family members was in those towers, would you think any different?

It is us against the rest of the world and they don't care about your opinion of them, they only care that you are an American.

reply to post by Unilluminist


i disagree completely.

how i would agree is if you replaced the word 'religion' with the word 'spirituality', then that would make a little more sense, or better yet, if you inserted the world 'their', people understand their religion. I have read numerous religious books: Bible, Gnostic Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, The Kabbalah, The book of the law, Kolbrin bible, 1/3 of the Vedas (its a really hard read, ancient Indian poetry is hard for me to wrap my head around), with a degree majoring in psychology, with a minor in philosophy. Religion is based purely on the individual, and not on any type of universal truth, which all religions claim to have, go figure... once anyone starts to explore the topic of religion as a whole, and steps out of the personal indoctrination they have gone through, you begin to see how each one is a plagarized, bastardization of a previous one, and is unfounded hearsay of a hearsay, of a story of a story, of a tale of a tale, of an illusion of a desperate person wanting to understand the origins of the universe, with having very little understanding of the forces and processes which dictate it. The psychological implications are far to numerous to talk about on a forum, but it does make for some interesting educational knowledge for whomever is interested in researching that topic.

As for family values... does one really need to be told how have values (family values) from 'higher forces'. I love my family, and treat them as i would like to be treated, and i dont need to conform to some ideal way to do so. conformity to the insecure or unsure will encourage stabilization, but this would become irrelevant as more people become more open minded and intelligent.

As for patriotism, my patriotism is as follows. The world is my country, humans are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

No need to marginalize, discriminate,. or wave some stupid flag. or to think im superior to other people who live on some other piece of land.

Originally posted by lewman
many americans live in a bubble of self obsession, being patriotic is a good thing when watching your nation play sports in world tournaments (the world series does not count) and when your country is under threat from invaders ( could be why the north koreans are so patriotic). it should not be used to fuel racism or to act like a prat and it has nothing to do with religion as north korea proves. patrionism exists world wide and not just in the usa but as i said earlier, many americans live in a bubble of self obsession, its just a shame that most cant see out of it!

edit on 13-12-2010 by lewman because: (no reason given)

How is it that we live in a "bubble of self obsession that we can't see out of"?

The United States is the most powerful nation in the world, this is a fact regardless if you want to call it self obsession or not. Americans are not blind to the rest of the world by far, in fact the country of a America is a conglomeration of all types of people and cultures from all ends of the globe, it is right in our backyards, Americans are everywhere in just about every nation as well. Just like anywhere else though there are a few ignorants here and there. I do appreciate your non-offensive attitude though, most people that bash the US just seem to be out to troll and don't seem to have a functioning brain.

Originally posted by ztruthseeker
reply to post by Unilluminist

 

As for patriotism, my patriotism is as follows. The world is my country, humans are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

It would be nice if we all could be like this. It is hard to respect other people though when they hate you just because of your country, it's a stupid reason to hate an individual.

reply to post by lewman


lewman, what part of the country do you live in? I used to live in NYC. I was there for 9/11. You have NO idea how patriotic people were. Americans can pay attention to their lives, enjoy what life brings them, but be there when the chips are down. It's so easy to look at the negatives of American society. When haven't the American people showed up in a crisis?????NEVER!!!

reply to post by Unilluminist


**facepalm**

reply to post by RSF77

i find it hard for most americans to see out of their bubble when around 80% of americans have never owned a passport.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


the american ideals include things like "in god we trust", "one nation under god" and other references to god. so to be patriotic and partake in the american rituals, you must acknowledge god. i think this means in america you can be patriotic while being a christian, jew or other denomination that acknowledges god. if you are an athiest tho, your screwed.

The premise is obviously flawed. Also, have we even defined Christian? Does that mean 'born in a predominantly Christian culture', does it mean goes to Church every Sunday, or does it mean 'a follower of Christ' who actually does keep his teachings. You can see where I'm going with this, if the answer is the last then I can't remember the last time I met anyone like that.

I understand the premise, though, as pointing to a time when America actually upheld Christian values, was a reasonably free country, and was respected as such world-wide. Slightly nostalgic I must say.

There is a clear trend towards charging the term 'patriot' with negative connotations by the idiots who now 'rule' us, and there is a clear attempt to associate Christians with anything negative: the day is fast coming where no-one will want to admit they are a Christian, mark my words on that.

The main issue here anyway, is that the meaning of a word is not in the word itself, but in a person's mind; the same word evokes different images, feelings and meanings in different people, according to their cultural backgraound, IQ and state of mind.

What this means is that this thread is pointless until we actually sit down and define:

a. Christian
b. Patriot

...otherwise everyone is having their own private conversation and there is not much chance of reaching a conclusion.

reply to post by Unilluminist


Yea I wouldn't take it that far, saying things like that can give atheists a pretty bad rep very easily and for all the wrong reasons.