True Patriots Are Christians

I am responding, because of the sheer stupidity of the quote in the OP..

Those who believe in religion don't understand it, and those who understand religion don't believe it.

Patriotism... should anyone really be proud to fight for the ideologies of governments that dont represent their people? How come no one is proud to be a human being? Why are we taught to be so divisive and prideful of those divisions? The simple answer is control.

As for the quoter, he is a dunce.

reply to post by ztruthseeker


There some that do understand religion but feel it is most pragmatic to not alienate a large segment of society, and to also recognize the family values that most religions do promote.

As for Patriotism, don't let those regimes that want you to blindly support and fight for them define it for you. Standing up to that is patriotic

Something for you all to "chew" on...are the Founding Father (in this case TJ) patriotic?

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it (i.e. the Book of Revelations), and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherence of our own nightly dreams." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825.

"The whole history of these books (i.e. the Gospels) is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, January 24, 1814.

"The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God, like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs". Source: Thomas Jefferson, Works, Vol. IV, p. 360.

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Some quotes for all of you more "conservative" folk who try to listen to Glenn Beck stretch some obscure quote into something it's not and try to claim that Thomas Jefferson wanted us to be a "Christian" country. I have a feeling that if he saw what Beck was saying now, Thomas Jefferson would finish his ass with a bayonet.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Agree.
Totally.

True Patriots are not Christians.

Our Navy can't afford to man it's ships. So they are making cuts and cuts and even more cuts to our military.

Maybe if we cut the Chaplains we'd be able to man our Navy's ships. Christians won't let Chaplains be cut from our military, so in essence they are decreasing our Defense Capability.

Non-Patriots. There's no reason Chaplains-religious folk should be wearing a military uniform in todays world. Maybe if our economy was in good condition and we could afford people in our military....but we can't.

You have a point. I cannot recall the last time my government did anything for me, but cause a headache.

How are those paved public roadways treating you, OP? (that's not meant to be argumentative, just as an example)

The government does have its uses, the problem begins when money starts being wasted on useless, corporate-driven projects.

Definition of PATRIOTISM : love for or devotion to one's country

Back on subject, it is wildly erroneous to state that only Christians are patriots. Our founding fathers were actually more closely related to Deists. It is also erroneous to state that Christians cant be patriots either. Patriotism and religious doctrine don't really affect each other by definition, but problems arise when people begin to state that you must be: one or the other/ a certain religion to be a "patriot"/ implicitly not a patriot if you're in a certain religion.

Christians, TRUE Christians, don't really care if another individual is patriotic or not. A baseline belief (for any real Christian, not a bastardized-bigot Christian) is to accept everyone for who they are, regardless of how much they love their respective countries.

TLDR: Patriotism and religion are unrelated, and those who choose to relate them and claim exclusivities are too narrow minded to accept individualism.

I love how the people of America go on about patriotism and how it is defined in their constitution...Man I cannot believe that America is not waking up Yet...but we shall keep trying cause the world is not as it seems and when the constitution was decreed it was done so as a method to control the people under the laws of men...and it is working a treat...

The constition is based on debt..a debt written off to Britain...which at the time was also duped and being set as the treatise to be the NWO....Wake up america...Study your own roots and not the roots that you get taught by the same people who want to control you...and as for Christians being the true Patriots...Man if your a Christian showing anything but patriotism to GOD then you are not even close to being a true patriot as a christian would not show patriotism to a country as that would be showing patriotism to a false idol..one should not idolize country but only show respect to GOD the true and only God of Mankind.

Leviticus 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

A perfect illustration of deeds not following "show" words and symbols, is the Liberty Bell. The united States of America claim to be the land of the free, and a portion of the above Torah quotation was inscribed on their Liberty Bell: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." Conveniently for themselves and their NWO bosses, the authors of the constitution omitted the rest of The Law, and this partial quotation was/is only propaganda, paying lip-service to appear noble, while disguising the fact that in practice the government acts in opposition to God's Law. The partial Bible reference from Leviticus is written on the Liberty Bell, but neither is it, nor its principle, written anywhere in the constitution. The Law says that every 50 years shall be a jubile year, which includes all debts being canceled, and every Israelite's possessions restored to them. It has been 212 years since the 1789 ratification of the constitution, which means if The Law was being kept, and the American people were doing what God wants them to do, then there should have been jubile years in: 1839, 1889, 1939, and 1989, in which all debts were canceled, right? Were YOUR debts canceled, and your possessions restored to you in 1989? It is therefore not surprising that the Liberty Bell is cracked and will not ring.

What we're really up against as far as the New World Order is concerned, is that Satan gets the New World Order and his politicians, who are all part of that, to make up rules and regulations to prevent people from doing what God wants them to do, and they make up other rules in order to force people to do things that God doesn't want them to do, in order to control the people. The tragic situations at Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. were the result of people doing it wrong. Your enemies claim authority from the constitution, and justification from their legislation for their criminal actions. The only way to defeat the New World Order, and it is the ONLY way to defeat the New World Order, is to get rid of all their legislation and go back to God's Laws.

Take on The NWO now that would be a patriot

watch what is happening in the world and do not repeat the past...a patriot is not of Nation a patriot is for the people...a patriot of the people for the people.

The true patriots are the people who see past the influence of mans laws...ignores them...and follows GODS laws....you do not have to be religious you just have to be aware.

Awareness = Being Awake

first, the idea is just a tad bit contrary to what I was taught as a christian...
I was taught that christians are to be in the world, but not of it....
the gov'ts, economies, all of it, are of the world....we are forced to live within them, to abide by their laws to the best of our ability, but we are of God's kingdom. I was taught we were more like ambassadors. And, well, when we send an ambassador to China, or No. Korea, or any other country in the world.....where is that ambassador's loyalty gonna lie?? Who is he representing, who is he speaking for??? And, well, just how successful do you think that ambassador is gonna be if he starts trying to force those other countries to run things as he see fit??

as far as patriotism goes, well, to me the kamakazi pilots of WW2 were probably the most patriotic examples I know of...willing to fly their planes into ships....die for their country!! and well, japan still seems to have a more patriotic heart then most americans do....

I guess all those suicidal pilots were all christian???


let's face it, it's not patriotic to degrade your fellow american in an attempt to exalt yourself...it's not christian either!! and that is all this is.....an attempt to make one group appear superior to the others!

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

I disagree with you ,I think that true patriots
would be basically christians.

This is a quote from another thread, and I wanted to debate this concept all on its own.

Are true patriots basically Christians?

And thus if you are not a Christian, you cannot be a true patriot?

I see the popularity of people like Sarah Palin, whose religion guides them in everything they do. I have always seen most people equate religion and tea partiers. There is a large and strong movement in America that weds religion and politics.

IMO, a TRUE patriot would protest this bride of Frankenstein marriage between religion and state!

What are your thoughts?

Thanks MamaBeth for the inspitration for a new debate!

No, this is false and statements like these are common among Christians who think everything good comes from their religion and it has never done anything wrong, contrary to it's entire history. People can say anything they want to piss off other people, it doesn't make it true. They are no more true patriots than they are truly honest with themselves.

I am an atheist and as well as serving in the USAF protecting these peoples rights to say ridiculous crap, I am a strong patriot of my country.

Originally posted by Pervius
True Patriots are not Christians.

Our Navy can't afford to man it's ships. So they are making cuts and cuts and even more cuts to our military.

Maybe if we cut the Chaplains we'd be able to man our Navy's ships. Christians won't let Chaplains be cut from our military, so in essence they are decreasing our Defense Capability.

Non-Patriots. There's no reason Chaplains-religious folk should be wearing a military uniform in todays world. Maybe if our economy was in good condition and we could afford people in our military....but we can't.

Wow what a generalizing ignorant statement, based on assumptions and your own biased definitions of Patriotism.

First of all cutting Chaplains will not make our defence budget problems go away, you aren't even sure of it yourself yet you still blame all Christians for this. Chaplains have a function as counselors for everyone including non-Christians in addition to their religious functions, if you served in the military you would know this. They often are the ones that mediate domestic disputes before things get violent, something that happens a lot in stressed out military households, and they are some of the main people that counsel suicidal servicemen, including non-Christians.

reply to post by Fiberx


You wrote: "Heh.

So now one must be delusional to be a good American?

Figures...

Atheist, served in Army, support constitutional protections, against government encroachment into citizens lives, believe in equal rights for races and sexes, support freedom of speech, support right to arms. Work hard, pay my taxes, vote, keep track of political issues and always vigilant against corruption in press and politics.

I guess I am anti-American eh?

Heck, the DoJ agrees!
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Breaking that down. "served in Army". Did you go into combat? From my experience and that of many others who have, (72-76) when the "rounds come whistling" and the mortars and airburst artillery start having their effect, there is no such thing as an "atheist" in a hole waiting for death to take them.("Death is certain, Life is not") Perhaps you were "in the rear with the gear". Any one from "Supply" can say they served.

Breaking that down: "Heck, the DoJ agrees!" Do tell. The current DOJ and DHS along with any other "communist" controlled government agencies hate you and I simply because we exist. Belief in the "Great and Almighty" has nothing to do with it except to incite a more communist and radical approach in trying to destroy "FREEDOM". You have heard of "depopulation".....right? Have you read the "Executive Orders"? That is where the real "Hate" comes from.

"So now one must be delusional to be a good American"? Who is being "delusional" now? "eh"?

I hope that you continue your belief (Atheism) concerning your statement that God does not exist, having claimed "atheism" as a belief in "nothing". "What we do today shall echo through eternity". After all, its your B-t.

Figures
Served in the US Army, God fearing, support constitutional protections, against government encroachment into citizen's lives, believe in equal rights for races and sexes, support freedom of speech, support right to arms. Work hard, pay my taxes, vote, keep track of political issues and always vigilant against corruption in press and politics. And to top that off, White, male, American, heterosexual, trained in "specialized skill sets", (courtesy of the US Army) with the knowledge that today's governments working in cooperation with the NWO agenda, are out to destroy 90% of the human race.

As you said: "Guess I'm anti-American too". "eh"?

Heck, the DOJ, CIA, NSA, CID, Naval Intelligence, OSI, NSC and every other alphabet soup group (even those without a name) agree.

"What goes around comes around" "To argue with a fool is to become one". You decide.

Scoutsniper

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

I disagree with you ,I think that true patriots
would be basically christians.

This is a quote from another thread, and I wanted to debate this concept all on its own.

Are true patriots basically Christians?

And thus if you are not a Christian, you cannot be a true patriot?

I see the popularity of people like Sarah Palin, whose religion guides them in everything they do. I have always seen most people equate religion and tea partiers. There is a large and strong movement in America that weds religion and politics.

IMO, a TRUE patriot would protest this bride of Frankenstein marriage between religion and state!

What are your thoughts?

Thanks MamaBeth for the inspitration for a new debate!

Christians follow the word of Jesus as the son of God! This is right. Jesus died on the cross to represent or positive energy in us all. A cross (horizontal and vertical represents positive energy) The Romans knew positive energy was in us all and used the cross to commit the ultimate sacrifice of taking a life. Jesus was not afraid of this and used this to display his message of internal life for all.

Originally posted by Pervius
True Patriots are not Christians.

There's no reason Chaplains-religious folk should be wearing a military uniform in todays world.

Let's just disregard for second the fact that most wars in the world today are caused by religion or inspired by it, it shouldn't be hard for you because it seems like you have been doing it all your life. So what you are saying is that, since you are religious you don't have the nuts to get out there with a gun and fight like the rest of us? How is it, exactly, that this makes you a patriot?

Foolish and cowardly.

reply to post by autowrench


The fact that the most of the Founding Fathers of this Nation were in fact Christian is a plain and simple FACT, no matter how you much refuse to believe it. It IS the history of this Nation like it or not.

The Founding Fathers are the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Of the 56 signers 26 were Ordained Ministers, the rest, less three were Active Christian Chuch Members, some of who fathers were Ministers.

Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were not the only Founding Fathers there are 54 more. Which almost all of them were practicing Christians.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Well lets go with the definition: one who loves and defends his or her country.

Enough said, thought there was a separation from church and state anyway, the church has nothing to do with patriotism since being a patriot has to do with love and defense of ones own country.

Also Sarah Palin is an Asshat!


Deny Ignorance or my new favorite slogan:


Deny Palin!!!!

Patriots are folks who love their country!

reply to post by hotbakedtater




Wow. Let's get straight the difference between "influence of God" in our lives and "influence of christianity". Since when does God require that we belong to a religion? He/She does not. Therefore we may certainly employ high ideals such as fair play for all, freedom in responsible ways for all, and citing the goodness of divinity and God's wish for justice on earth but none of these is bound up in any particular religion. These attributes of God existed long before there were any religions on earth. We may know God without religion.

In the days of our revolution it was common in countries of Europe for citizens to belong to a particular church if they wanted to enjoy the benefits of citizenship. This is the reason that the Mennonites (for one) left Switzerland and finally ended up in various places in the new world. The Amish are branched, through Jacob Amman, from the Mennonites. When our constitution tells us that there shall be no official religion (church) in America it means specifically that there will be no requirement that citizens belong to a nationally recognized church. Here we may see that is not our relationship to God which is being prohibited but only our desire for church in government.

So when, in this topic, we read about chrisitians being true patriots we may be sure that we are seeing the beginnings of a desire for christianity to be our official American religion. This will never become reality as it expressly injures those of us who do not agree and all of us must be accorded equality or else our American dream dies.

God yes.....

Religion no...

reply to post by hotbakedtater


So I am a Pagan and served in the army what does this make me an oddball??? I would say no because I actually knew others of my faith that served. As far as I am concerned, the person who said that needs to get off their high horse!

Heal folks.....



Don't need LSG either.....Just Love.....!