More evangelists appointed to Lords, Christians desperate to force their delusion upon my children

everything you do and everything you say, in fact the fabric of the very nature of your being that makes you what you are and the things you have learned is part of Christian history. this is evident even in the very language you are choosing to speak/type in on ats. Research where you have come from and what made your civilization unique and to prosper enough even to have a net connection in your living room.

But where is the angry mob ? I don't see them at your door...

what the OP types here and the title of the thread goes against Christ, these poor souls are crying for enslavement and for something to believe in and in fact feel very lost ready to accept the closest thing their mind with it's level of advancement to accept anything it can vaguely relate to. Education IS the key and personally I do not have any problems with Christians in the public school system, they are doing a good thing...

fear the unknown... it's a classic.

Re Y2KJMan.

You wrote:

"Right, because our beliefs are somehow inferior to yours? Believing in no God is a religion all its own. So now, even you cannot influence our government. Who will do so? Or should we live in anarchy?"

Seen from a rational and logical perspective, your (religious) beliefs ARE undoubtly inferior to secular ones. You really should allow logic some space in your life, if you want to use it in communication.

From a religious perspective there are, say 50.000 options of 'true answers', most of them merrily fighting, disputing or opposing each other. Fat chance to hit the ultimatively correct one, especially with the circular argumentation so popular amongst the saved.

As to "believing in no God is a religion all its own", it has some weird semantics in it. Add semantics to your homework.

And the 'political' last part of your PR. Your knowledge of how liberal, secular and democratic society functions is on par with your knowledge of logic and semantics. Liberalism is the balancing of political power, where no group has special priviliges, and everybody are equal to the law. Voters DO have some influence on politics (though I must admit it could be better).

For you anything 'left' of a fascistic theocracy would probably be 'anarchy'.

So "Jesus for president" (when the second coming has been made visible).

reply to post by The Djin


Mr. Djin there are evil people everywhere you look. Trying to get someone to convert to a religion is as evil is little kittens. How about you try to fix what you believe in first than try to extend your prefect hand to other people.

As I see it every aspect of belief has its wrongdoings. In example, science has the aspect of profit over doing real science. We could easily spend a lot of money fighting things like cancer and aids, which we have cures for. But why aren't the cures spread amongst the sick? Profits.

Why do we design scientific tools and weapons that help us destroy the world tenfold....yet you come on here and claim that Christians are evil?

Don't forget what happened when the lack of belief took hold of leadership. How do you know if another atheist were to gain leadership they wouldn't follow hand of Stalin, Mao, Pot, Il-Sung, etc.?

All I am saying is both side have corruption. I hope you open your eyes before saying the other side is evil but mine is good.

So Islam is better with your daughters being stoned for looking in the direction of a man.

Or hey public school where your children are gone for six to eight hours under the influence and direction of people that may or do have different moral and ethical values then you.

Or the fact that public schools lie in the text books force vacinations upon your children with out your consent.

What about television with its if it feels good do it motto. Making fun of traditional marriage, devaluing men, glorifying every kind of fleshly lust that come to mind

But you are right save your children from knowing the one true God,

Do not let them become subject to his rules of love one another as you would yourself, or do not kill, or do not commit adultery, or honor thy mother and father, or do not bare false witness, or do not covet your neighbors stuff.
Those are just the man ones that even if you did not believe in God and followed these you would be at least a better person to everyone else.

Those few are just common law and everyone should follow but we do not. Not standing against someone who has is as though you are breaking it also because as more and more people except wrong doing we slip into a society of Wrong is right and Right is wrong. And Many here on ATS are guilty of this very concept.

Originally posted by bogomil
Re Y2KJMan.

Seen from a rational and logical perspective, your (religious) beliefs ARE undoubtly inferior to secular ones. You really should allow logic some space in your life, if you want to use it in communication.

From a religious perspective there are, say 50.000 options of 'true answers', most of them merrily fighting, disputing or opposing each other. Fat chance to hit the ultimatively correct one, especially with the circular argumentation so popular amongst the saved.

Really? do I need to point out the hypocrisy in what you just said? Let me see, Big bang theory, Big Bounce theory, cyclic universe theory, steady state theory, inflation universe theory, plasma theory, etc.

The science community seems to be fighting each other as well. You are trying to point out a flaw in religion that we see in the science community. In example, political fights to get funding for your projects-cold fusion vs nuclear fusion.

So which theory is the correct one pertaining the the origins of the universe?

As to "believing in no God is a religion all its own", it has some weird semantics in it. Add semantics to your homework.

And the 'political' last part of your PR. Your knowledge of how liberal, secular and democratic society functions is on par with your knowledge of logic and semantics. Liberalism is the balancing of political power, where no group has special priviliges, and everybody are equal to the law. Voters DO have some influence on politics (though I must admit it could be better).

For you anything 'left' of a fascistic theocracy would probably be 'anarchy'.

So "Jesus for president" (when the second coming has been made visible).

Equal until how long? Give liberals ultimate power and their true colors show.

Re ReginaAdonnaAaron

No, you are certainly not associated to any man-made religious organisation, because you have an open channel to D-g hisownself, being his offcial spokeswoman (according to your links). Still another selfappointed prophet, messiah or whatever, using ATS for one-way missioning instead of communication.

Congratulations, you have added another 'interpretation' and group to the christian family of 34.000+ varieties. Unquestionable you'll make the world a better place, once you've outcompeted those who make claims similar to yours. Both knowing-it-all christians and those channelling messages from the cosmic masters on Sirius.

So do you suggest, that YOUR special 'truth' should be fed exclusively to children? Or must they learn ALL the 34.000 'truths' first, before they can make use of free will and choose?

Unless they go to school 30 years, there will hardly be any possibility of learning anything useful then, and that would be a socio-economic disaster. A society of religious morons, almost reaching pension age before they can do anything just slightly useful.

Or does your version of the Lord say anything about being provided for in the difficult transition period between rational education and raving maniacs.

Re Infolurker

You wrote:

"You will have your legs kicked out from under you when the Muslim call to prayer blasts from the loudspeakers in Downtown London long before those evil Christians cause you any problems other than being annoying."

Aaaaaa, so christian extremists are the good guys, defending all us religiously undecided nincompoops, from the truly bad guys in jihadism? How touching. To think of all this care and protection, fundies so lavishly spread as a protecting shield over us secular liberals, who ofcourse only will be singing "Down by the riversive" to ward off the muselman heathens.

Now I can sleep safely again, knowing that snowywhite (with just a hint of optical blue perhaps) angels and christians guard me from all evil. And all this from ulterior motives, not in any way connected to agendas of their own.

And yes, ....I know, that all the christian-lead genocides were unfortunate mistakes, and in any case almost didn't take place.

Originally posted by The Djin
How many of these types of people in these positions do you think, will it take before bronze age blasphemy laws are re introduced or that homosexuals are once again treated as the dysfunctional wicked of society ?

It won't. In fact the opposite will happen. You have general concerns but I think you are blowing this out of proportion. Keep in mind you can't shield everything from your kids. Whether its religious zealots or bigots, drug pushers and users, you'll have to do your job as a parent and reflect the best values you can. The world is what it is.

OK. I'm assuredly not an atheist, and I grew up in the C of E and later Episcopalian. I no longer consider myself a "Christian" though I am decidedly not an atheist. That being said, I agree with the original post 150%. The OP is located in the UK where the threat is far more subtle than it is here in the States. I have been researching the threat of Evangelical Theocratic Dominionism for over 10 years, and it is currently the greatest threat to world peace, even moreso than fundamentalist Islam at the moment simply because of the pervasiveness of their infiltration of the US political machinations and Air Force nuclear systems.

Rather than go on and on with my own opinion, I'll simply provide some links for self research, and will dialogue on the issue with those who have obviously visited those links and perused the material therein.

video.google.com...#

en.wikipedia.org...

www.yuricareport.com...

www.theocracywatch.org...

www.alternet.org...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

www.youtube.com... Part 1 of 9, watch all 9 parts of this before commenting please....anything else is arguing out of ignorance (which does tend to be a key tenet of evangelical/non-denominational dominionists/end-timers.

www.veteranstoday.com...

rackjite.com...

www.theocracywatch.org...

blogs.alternet.org...

Now. I didn't fall off of the believers bandwagon...I saw what most of the so-called believers really believed. These people do not believe in God either, OP. They are just as atheist as you are. The difference is, they believe in BELIEVING in God because of the social benefits of it in the Western world. They are using this false belief to place themselves into a position of ABSOLUTE power in the West.

If you want to see what the result of a dominionist Christian theocray looks like, take a trip to Uganda. The "Christians" have essentially committed genocide in that country in the name of Missionary Aid.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Read and watch this stuff. Then we should talk.

Re Equinox99

You wrote:

"The science community seems to be fighting each other as well."

I must have missed that, but then one scientist throwing an inkpot at another would hardly make it to the news. And I'm quite sure, that any scientist-lead crusade with rivers of blood and genocide would have come to my attention..
And you wrote:

"So which theory is the correct one pertaining the the origins of the universe?"

How on earth should I know that. I'm not the one pretending to have ultimate truths or direct communication with an alleged 'god'. I can live quite at peace with relative reality or approximate truths, contrary to those, who must make up fanciful narratives to cover their own existential emptiness.

Your effort of turning the concepts 'science' or 'logic' into political ideology is so typical of christian 'red herring' or 'smokescreen' diversionary tactics, that I'm surprised you use it. The time when such funtioned is over, and only fundies speaking from inside a holy bubble believe, that anyone with more than two braincells will not see it for what it is. Try to get your concepts and whatever logic you have in functional order, instead of serving the non-sense christian feed each other with.

You wrote:

"Equal until how long? Give liberals ultimate power and their true colors show."

The most liberal nations in the world, which you mainly will find in northern Europe, have also the most stable political situations, human rights well developed and social systems, where very few die in the streets from social neo-Darwinism.

All very ungodly, but it's a surprisingly popular model.

I have a very strong suspicion, that you have no idea whatsoever about what 'liberalism' is and confuse it with some twisted propaganda your religious forcefeeder has spooned into you.

Re Control

Well said.

I can only add, that in my slightly middlesized european contry the only 5% fundie christians (of the total population) are making regular and loud political noise about reinstating 'christian values', which out of politeness mostly is ignored, as it is so stupid as is taking up the old Woden religion for a cultural norm.

They are like ticks, hanging on and on, and use all possible means. Exactly as here on this thread, where hypothetical situations have been blown totally out of proportion, so we end with very, very white and very, very black exclusive options. E.g. the muslim 'threat', which in reality isn't bigger than the christian 'threat'.

reply to post by bogomil

I must have missed that, but then one scientist throwing an inkpot at another would hardly make it to the news. And I'm quite sure, that any scientist-lead crusade with rivers of blood and genocide would have come to my attention..

So you missed the part about science where they invented nuclear weapons? Virus'? guns? warplanes? ICBM's?
Cigarettes with 4000 chemicals? If you combine the deaths by science and the death by religion who would win?

How on earth should I know that. I'm not the one pretending to have ultimate truths or direct communication with an alleged 'god'. I can live quite at peace with relative reality or approximate truths, contrary to those, who must make up fanciful narratives to cover their own existential emptiness.

The only reason i replied that answer is because it was a rebuttal to Y2KJMan saying:

From a religious perspective there are, say 50.000 options of 'true answers', most of them merrily fighting, disputing or opposing each other. Fat chance to hit the ultimatively correct one, especially with the circular argumentation so popular amongst the saved.

You said:

Your effort of turning the concepts 'science' or 'logic' into political ideology is so typical of christian 'red herring' or 'smokescreen' diversionary tactics, that I'm surprised you use it. The time when such funtioned is over, and only fundies speaking from inside a holy bubble believe, that anyone with more than two braincells will not see it for what it is. Try to get your concepts and whatever logic you have in functional order, instead of serving the non-sense christian feed each other with.

It isn't a smokescreen it is the truth. Jesus said:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Y2KJMan was saying how there are 50,000 true answers in religion so that would indicate that science has the one true answer. Why else would he point a fallacy in religion when science has the same fallacy?

The most liberal nations in the world, which you mainly will find in northern Europe, have also the most stable political situations, human rights well developed and social systems, where very few die in the streets from social neo-Darwinism.

All very ungodly, but it's a surprisingly popular model.

I have a very strong suspicion, that you have no idea whatsoever about what 'liberalism' is and confuse it with some twisted propaganda your religious forcefeeder has spooned into you.

But they don't hold ultimate power now do they? They hold little power to that region and they have a short history for you to draw any conclusion on.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".

If you attain true power that is when you show who you really are. FYI, no one has forcefed me. I used to be an atheist than I turned Christian, not because someone told me. The reason was because I had a life changing experience which opened my eyes to Christianity.

I am not saying that a Christian run world would be any better, that isn't what I am implying at all. In fact, I believe in separation of church and state. All I am saying is that every organization has corruption in it's deepest root. There is a difference between spirituality and mass organized everything.

Even though I believe in Jesus I don't think being a follower of the church would help me better myself at all. I enjoy having independent thoughts and I will enjoy having them.

reply to post by bogomil


Thank you. It is important to not ignore it out of politeness. That mindset (Dominionist) gains power and justifies itself through ignorance. I'm using the term ignorance here to mean "the act of ignoring (even if out of politeness). In other words, they use the fact that few to none question them or their motives as proof of their correctness. It needs to be called out for what it is every time it rears its head. This is not to say Christianity must be subjugated as a religion, but Christian terrorists who are weaseling their way into social control positions need to be stopped before it is too late.

They are spreading..The evangelicals are multiplying, and the world has thus far "uncomfortably allowed" or tolerated its' incursion into the political systems around the world. They are all over Africa. Most of them are American Evangelicals, but there is a significant rise in evangelical populations in the UK, Norway, Germany, Australia, and New Zealand. These countries were initially evangelized by Americans. In fact, the entire evangelical phenomenon is, unfortunately, entirely an American creation which has spread across the world in much the same pattern as how a virus spreads among human hosts..

Originally posted by Y2KJMan
Right, because our beliefs are somehow inferior to yours? Believing in no God is a religion all its own. So now, even you cannot influence our government. Who will do so? Or should we live in anarchy?

Do me a favor and get off your high horse, remember it takes all kinds... and then get over yourself.

So you wouldn't mind living under sharia law? That's a prime example of state and religion mixed. It's all the same to me, religion should be a private affair, I don't care what anyone wants to believe in, as long as they don't use it to influence anyone else.

Or should we live in Anarchy? Hmmm, yes please

I assume you think Anarchy and chaos are the same thing, you might want to look up the meaning of Anarchy and educate yourself.

Why would a lack of religious nutters influencing politics reduce the country to chaos? You don't honestly believe that the only people with morals and ethics are the ones that believe in god?

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron
If you're encouraging them to think for themselves, then why not allow them to learn about God and Christ our Savior? We are given the gift of free-will for a reason. If they choose to follow Christ, that's their free- will choice and they should be allowed to make it. What may not be for you, isn't necessarily not for them.

Edit: P.S. I myself am not aligned with any man-made religious organization, and do not agree with the teachings presented by any of these false-religions in these End Times including the one's posted by the OP. But if anyone is interested in TRUTH, the links can be found in my signature.

edit on 28-11-2010 by ReginaAdonnaAaron because: Additional Clarification

If my kids want to look into any religion whan they are old enough to look at it rationally, then I would not stand in their way.
If I was to pump them full of religious retoric while still young and very impressionable, that, in my opinion, would be irresponsible.

You seem very intent on forcing your opinions on everyone else, OP. Learn to respect others and listen to what they are saying. Surely you do not think you have all the answers to life. You live in a diverse society. Securlarists claim to be for tolerance of diversity, right?

Originally posted by NonKonphormist
If my kids want to look into any religion whan they are old enough to look at it rationally, then I would not stand in their way.
If I was to pump them full of religious retoric while still young and very impressionable, that, in my opinion, would be irresponsible.

I agree completely. It is the EXACT SAME THING that cults do, Islamic AND Jewsih fundamentalist extremists and political extremists. Watch Jesus Camp (the 9 part youtube vid in my first post in this thread). It is about exactly that. Brainwashing kids for Christ and the extreme Right Wing.

Re Equinox99

You wrote:

"Y2KJMan was saying how there are 50,000 true answers in religion so that would indicate that science has the one true answer. Why else would he point a fallacy in religion when science has the same fallacy?"

Well actually it was me bringing '50.000 religious answers' up originally (not Y2KJMan) and there was no mention of any of them being ultimate truths (quite the contrary) and there was no mention of science having any ultimate answers either.

I'm quite sure, that it would make communication easier, if you READ the posts before commenting on them. If you also could remember who wrote what, it would be even better.

You also wrote:

"So you missed the part about science where they invented nuclear weapons? Virus'? guns? warplanes? ICBM's?"

Aaah, getting wisely christian rhetoric now, aren't we?

No, I didn't miss it, but I can't see how this relates to christianity's killing millions before modern science was even thought of, or how 'science' was brought into it all. Except ofcourse, that you by misquoting me wanted to score a debate point. You certainly are a very clever person, who can make such elegant traps.

I said in my post to Y2KJMan thusly: " Seen from a rational and logical perspective, your (religious) beliefs ARE undoubtly inferior to secular ones." I didn't especially point to science, because I find the 'satanic science' debate rather moronic.

But I'll still stay with my opinion, that christian beliefs are inferior in a RATIONAL and LOGIC perspective. You get it this time? (In case this is beyond you, what's rational about a 6.000 year old geocentric universe????)

Furthermore you enlightened us:

"It isn't a smokescreen it is the truth. Jesus said:..........."

You really so bad off, that you don't know what circle-argumentation IS? Sorry, I'll not even try to waste my time on explaining it to you. For further communication I can cite any old holy book of my choice and you can use your book. An approach which certainly will commend christianity to non-believers, who only are waiting for a chance to be saved through listening to a selfcontradictory bunch of non-sense which is true, because it says it's true.

Concerning liberals you wrote:

" But they don't hold ultimate power now do they? They hold little power to that region and they have a short history for you to draw any conclusion on."

"They" (=liberals) don't hold ultimate power. That's the whole idea of liberalism. Whereas ultimate power is the political system examplified by all fascists ideologies (amongst them christian theocracy).

Your further comments about individual spirituality I can ofcourse only agree with. That's part of the inclusive liberal system, but if you had read this thread from the start, instead of jumping in somewhere from halfread posts, you would have noticed, that the OP topic was about social contexts and social consequences of christian missionary or invasive attitudes. Not your personal spiritual life, which may be interesting for some people, but not for me as a posting opponent.

Re Sara 123123

You wrote:

"You seem very intent on forcing your opinions on everyone else, OP. Learn to respect others and listen to what they are saying. Surely you do not think you have all the answers to life. You live in a diverse society. Securlarists claim to be for tolerance of diversity, right?"

One of the whiners? Christian PRIVILEGES taken away? As compared to who?

Liberal secularists claim for equal rights (and obligations) INSIDE the perimeter of liberal law. Once you go outside the perimeter, you are a threat to the liberal society, and will be considered as such. I find it very peculiar, that fundies seem to be unable to grasp a principle as simple as that, and from their point of fanatic preferences of fascist theocracy alternatively attack liberalism as either 'intolerant' (=totalitarian) to poor christianity OR as wishy-washy chaotic anarchy without any guidelines at all.

It would be a pleasant surprise to see all the myriads of disagreeing christianity just for once share one rational and logic opinion.

Are some christians dumb, because they are fanatics, or fanatics because they're dumb?

But in any case I'll put it, so eeeveeryyboody can understand.

Inside liberal law = Good and tolerated. Outside liberal law = Bad and not tolerated.

Same rules for everybody, and no privileges.

[

This isn't an issue of not being tollerant of other people's belief's, it's an issue of other people's belief's having an impact on social, legal, education etc policies.
In my opinion, there should be a seperation of religion and state.

Yes as committed religious person of a minority faith I agree of of the biggest threats is the intolerance that the evangelically religious people wield when given state power!