UK's Islam Channel Censured for Guests Advocating Marital Rape

reply to post by oozyism

Tapping your wife is a form of expression, like nudging someone, it has nothing to do with harming your wife, or hurting her, or assault. Those are all forbidden in Islam, and also forbidden in Western law

The fact that you even entertain the thought of disciplining your wife like a child is indicative of your thought process......and is demeaning, disrespectful, and shameful.......

If i ever saw a man in public "tap" his wife like a child as to scold her, he would find himself disciplined instead.....

reply to post by oozyism

Originally posted by oozyism
Honor killing is a culture originated from India.

Anyways, you should probably rephrase your question to something like this:
If the Muslim faith is so tolerant of women, why does 4 women convert to Islam for every man (US statistics).

Answer the above question, or just close your eyes and walk off outside for a walk or a smoke, then come back and see if the question is still there.

Lies.

1) Honor killings are part of many cultures, including India. India is NOT the originator of the tradition. Muslim Honor killings do not come from Indian tradition.

2) I doubt your statistic since you didn't post a source. But even if true, Muslims force women to convert all the time.

www.jihadwatch.org...

www.washingtontimes.com...

www.pakistanchristianpost.com...

Your precious Muslims kidnap little girls, and rape them until they agree to convert to Islam.
So the question should really be...Why can't Muslims get women to convert willingly?

Why do Muslims feel that kidnapping, and raping little girls is okay?

So why don't you go ahead and take your own little walk, and come back with excuses for pedophile rape.

reply to post by oozyism


This is a complete lie, women cannot just say "divorce" and it's done.

Muslim divorce system:
divorce.lovetoknow.com...

reply to post by oozyism


You are just trying to semantically corrupt that posters words.

Humans are all equal, period. You simply don't understand the difference in a right and privilege, and thus unqualified to discuss rights. You demonstrated as much, when you claimed hiring expensive lawyers is a right.

reply to post by oozyism


More semantics and obfuscations.

Sure both Muslim Men and Women have to use the same rulebook (Quran), but they each get a different set of rules from that book. Something you are obviously trying to hide.

reply to post by oozyism


Oh, a marriage contract how convenient.
I'm sure those little girls they kidnapped, raped, and forced to marry them had a choice in signing.

Oh, wait a minute....

reply to post by oozyism


Page two, and you have yet to post a source to this mysterious statistic.
Considering your track record, it's probably not true.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

The three major English translations of the Qur'an were completed by Muslims early in the 20th century. Though working independently, each translator came to the same conclusion concerning verse 4:34 - namely that it commands husbands to beat their wives in a manner that causes pain - if the circumstances agree (Yusuf Ali tried to mitigate this somewhat by adding the word "lightly" in parentheses).

Enter the modern age, when wife-beating isn't quite as trendy as it used to be, and suddenly contemporary Muslim apologists living in Judeo-Christian societies are having epiphanies as to the original meaning of verse 4:34. Apparently the true intention of the verse was hidden from Islamic scholars and ordinary Muslims for fourteen centuries and it is only now coming to light that hitting a woman for any reason is "completely against Islam" - although this curiously coincides with modern Western revulsion.

Muhammad used the Arabic word 'idribuhunna' in the verse, which is derived from the root 'daraba' and almost always means "to strike." However, one less common derivation of this root is "to go abroad," which leaves our desperate apologist with an exit strategy, it seems. This is what Muhammad must have truly meant, they tell us. If a man can't get the little woman to come to her senses, then he should move out of his own house and back in with his parents until she does.

reply to post by Intelearthling


Everyone seems to be having a ball ripping on Islam, especially with very few if any defending it. There isn't anything in that article that Christianity didn't condone and encourage as recently as 50 years ago in the US. Now, if we stick to the rationale used here, that 1 billion people can be judged by anecdotal examples, I would like to start a thread accusing all catholics of being child molesters. What's that you say? Those are only a few Catholics who don't represent the majority? Doesn't matter. We're playing the guilt by association game in this thread.

Women couldn't vote in this country until the 1920s. Good Christians had slaves for hundreds of years, who they routinely raped and beat to death, when they weren't trading them as property. In the United States, we did not even begin criminalizing spousal rape until 1975 (South Dakota), and it was still legal in North Carolina until 1993.

For decades, minorities were denied the right to vote or use the same restrooms as White Christians.

All of you people are hypocrites - your vile hatred and fear is what fuels endless wars in the Middle East. Worse, however, it causes you to hate your neighbors and coworkers here in the US because Fox News told you they want to destroy you.

You spend your wasted days following up on links you got from Glenn Beck, feeding your confirmatory bias. No one seemed to notice that the show was partially censured for criticizing Israel. That one just flew over everyone's head. Yeah!! Silencing fair criticism of an apartide state is fun. I'll be worried about Iran when they get 1/10 the number of spies currently operating in the US as Israel, our greatest "ally."

This whole thread is hateful garbage surrounding a strawman argument.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by oozyism

 

Tapping your wife is a form of expression, like nudging someone, it has nothing to do with harming your wife, or hurting her, or assault. Those are all forbidden in Islam, and also forbidden in Western law

The fact that you even entertain the thought of disciplining your wife like a child is indicative of your thought process......and is demeaning, disrespectful, and shameful.......

If i ever saw a man in public "tap" his wife like a child as to scold her, he would find himself disciplined instead.....

shame on you what is it your business if a man chooses to discipline his wife?... watch out while you try to discipline him she doesnt stab you in your eye... like everyone who knows anything you should mind your own business... thats it nothing else

reply to post by fonenyc


Ahh its everyones business, no one deserves to be treated like that. If a persons decides that is how they are going to treat their wife, then they should be treated the same way.......

And yes, like anyone who knows anything, i have a very strong moral compass, and where I come from, behavior like that towards women doesnt stand....

If thats what they want to do, then they can keep that culture in that hole in the sand they are living in over there....

In the civilized world we treat our women with dignity and respect

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by fonenyc

 

Ahh its everyones business, no one deserves to be treated like that. If a persons decides that is how they are going to treat their wife, then they should be treated the same way.......

And yes, like anyone who knows anything, i have a very strong moral compass, and where I come from, behavior like that towards women doesnt stand....

If thats what they want to do, then they can keep that culture in that hole in the sand they are living in over there....

In the civilized world we treat our women with dignity and respect

No one is above an ass whooping even the son of god can attest to that... but hey go strong the world needs heros

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by oozyism

 

Originally posted by oozyism
Honor killing is a culture originated from India.

Anyways, you should probably rephrase your question to something like this:
If the Muslim faith is so tolerant of women, why does 4 women convert to Islam for every man (US statistics).

Answer the above question, or just close your eyes and walk off outside for a walk or a smoke, then come back and see if the question is still there.

Lies.

1) Honor killings are part of many cultures, including India. India is NOT the originator of the tradition. Muslim Honor killings do not come from Indian tradition.

2) I doubt your statistic since you didn't post a source. But even if true, Muslims force women to convert all the time.

www.jihadwatch.org...

www.washingtontimes.com...

www.pakistanchristianpost.com...

Your precious Muslims kidnap little girls, and rape them until they agree to convert to Islam.
So the question should really be...Why can't Muslims get women to convert willingly?

Why do Muslims feel that kidnapping, and raping little girls is okay?

So why don't you go ahead and take your own little walk, and come back with excuses for pedophile rape.

reply to post by oozyism

 

This is a complete lie, women cannot just say "divorce" and it's done.

Muslim divorce system:
divorce.lovetoknow.com...

reply to post by oozyism

 

You are just trying to semantically corrupt that posters words.

Humans are all equal, period. You simply don't understand the difference in a right and privilege, and thus unqualified to discuss rights. You demonstrated as much, when you claimed hiring expensive lawyers is a right.

reply to post by oozyism

 

More semantics and obfuscations.

Sure both Muslim Men and Women have to use the same rulebook (Quran), but they each get a different set of rules from that book. Something you are obviously trying to hide.

reply to post by oozyism

 

Oh, a marriage contract how convenient.
I'm sure those little girls they kidnapped, raped, and forced to marry them had a choice in signing.

Oh, wait a minute....

reply to post by oozyism

 

Page two, and you have yet to post a source to this mysterious statistic.
Considering your track record, it's probably not true.




Whoa man I laugh at all the hate for Islam... in Islamic countries women are not exploited for their sexual value like in America.... women are respected and some Muslims do beat their wives but so does every religious faith and atheists do too.... Islam protects their women and doesnt allow for greedy, principle and moral lacking not to mention say and do anything for a dollar schmucks dictate what is okay and not okay for a woman's image... women are not allowed to do certain things to protect a way a sacred way of life... poverty is poverty and you cannot compare apples to broccoli.

Islam is slammed based on the few isolated incidents that happen to be reported by certain "aspects" of the american media.... conflict of interest I guess... but compare quality of life in Iran, which is a well to do country, and Islam there to the rest of the "civilized" world..... you remember in Iraq the people there fought for Saddam Hussein and werent exactly aiding in their own "liberation".... even after Saddam's women and children fought to protect their way of life... it saddens me that what the world perceives as the American mind state is so true... ethnocentrism I believe is part of it... but this belief that America is so right when history shows American women are not happy with American men

Look at the rate of divorce here in America compared to most of the world the add on to that single mothers etc.... the American family is an endangered species but yet Americans want to argue over what is right and what is wrong from their limited view.... did you most people of other countries are affluent in 3 to 4 different languages? Americans are lucky to speak english properly or a few words in the most spoken language in America; that would be Spanish.... do the math America we are severly lagging behind in almost everything except military might.... and that can go soon too

Im proud of where I come from because America does have on thing still and that is a pioneering spirit and out of this dark cloud something great will come for the world to benefit from. Still attacking other cultures and faiths is no way to show you respect and love your country. Women in Islam are safer than in America. If women are possessions in Islam the women are product in America, to the husband and the corporate media respectively. Im sorry but I do not have the "spreadsheets" and appropriate data to back my claims but I have read extensively on the subject and have had many muslim friends treat me as a brother to know that Islam is not what the American media wants yo to believe. It is all propaganda to serve America's masters.... wake up people and get some intellectual curiousity to experience and form your own opinions.

The religion that sprang out of the harsh Arabian Peninsula to lay waste to an ever-widening swath of homes, fields and hapless populations with shocking brutality... the religion that cannibalized entire cultures and turned vibrant people into terrorized, subordinate slaves and dhimmis... is really just intended to bring out the Alan Alda in your man after a hard day of pillaging.

But how realistic is it that Muhammad, who taught that women should be made to share their marital bed with three other wives at their husband's discretion (but stoned for adultery)... who established the "triple talaq" rule that a woman can be thrown out of the house at any time... who encouraged his men to rape women captured in battle... how likely is it that Muhammad would be telling a man to move out of the house rather than use physical force to keep his woman in line?

GET REAL Not likely. Not likely at all.

(For one thing, it doesn't seem fair to the other wives, who would also be abandoned... but perhaps that's just us).

Quoted from the article:
"Apparently public stonings cut down on the recidivism rate for adultery and teen pregnancy."

This I think is the most evil thing ever. Pre C.E. this might have been the norm or in some cases law, but this should not be anywhere now. They even video tape it in some cases. There's even young women that get lured into a forced sex situation, where if she fights back, the man will report what happened and she's subsequently stoned. Yet, the man gets no punishment. Such BS.

reply to post by fonenyc


You obviously didn't read any sources I linked. Not even the Pakistan-Christian Post, that gets its news from sources inside Pakistan. You must have been in an awful big hurry to do damage control for Islam to check them.

LMAO, I find it funny no matter whose reporting it. It must be industry wide American propaganda. Heavens forbid that Muslims are actually getting fingers pointed at them, because they are really doing these things. Noooooo, it's all fake, or Spin-doctored American lies.

Even this one...
barenakedislam.wordpress.com... victim/

“Don’t kill me.” “Don’t kill me,” cries 13 year old Somali girl before she is stoned to death for being a rape victim

An innocent little girl, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was forced into a hole, buried up to her neck then pelted with stones by more than 50 MUSLIM men until she died in front of 1,000 jeering spectators.

Anyways, Muslims do everything you claim they don't. I can only imagine the feel-good, Liberal sources you get your information from. It's funny how Muslims are all of a sudden salt-of-the-Earth, when really it's a group of people who will kill a woman for daring to be a rape victim, or even just looking at a man the wrong way.

Islam is slammed because it promotes...
KILLING RAPE VICTIMS.
Marrying and then raping little girls.
Keeping women locked up at home.
"Honor" killing (murder) daughters for looking at boys.
Forced marriage due to pregnancy.
Quran promotes violence against non-Muslims.
Force their religious beliefs on others, by enforcing Sharia law on non-Muslims.
Core Islamic countries kill anyone who converts from Islam.
Banned Homosexuality.
Fatwah threats to anyone who criticize Islam.

Mostly though, it's the sanctioned Pedophilia and child-rape that I don't like.

American divorce rates are irrelevant. We aren't talking about divorce rates. We're talking about Muslims advocating rape. Also, you seem unable to comprehend that with their control over women a low divorce rate could easily indicate that Muslim women are afraid to get a divorce.

I don't really care where you come from or how it makes you feel. As far as showing love for my own country, I'll do that by practicing Freedom of Speech (Islam forbids it), and legally making sure Sharia law is NEVER allowed to be practiced within the USA.

reply to post by Byteman


I agree. The low divorce rate is due to fear. I posted a few pages back about the cycle of dependancy that abusive men (in general) put their women into which eventually results in such low self-esteem and confidence that escape from the marriage is almost impossible for them, and only a few very brave one attempt it.

Add in the religious complications and this effect is magnified, especially in societies that are less than tolerant. We are not talking about every Muslim culture or place, as there are a lot of progressive and modern thinking muslims. But some muslim countries advocate and encourage the ill-treatment of women and this is just plain wrong.

reply to post by oozyism


Oozy it's entertaining watching you fight an uphill battle you can't win, denying things that are quite evident to everyone and then insist on creating loop arguments just for the sake of not having to face the fact that you are wrong about Islamic teaching not condoning violence against women among other things. Face it, your only move should have been not to respond to the OP in defense of Islam, you lost with your first post.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by oozyism
It is also a women's responsibility to talk with her husband and tell her how to express his dissatisfaction, or his deep disapproval of the wife's actions, or policies.

Yeah right. Obviously you don't understand what happens in an abusive relationship. And that's what Islam is towards women .. abusive. According to Islam, the victim .. (that's the wife) .. is a lesser being. She's lower than men, slaves and cattle. She is not to be trusted. She is not to be allowed out without a male family member escort. Imams instruct their followers to beat the wives. Many women aren't even allowed to learn to read or to take care of themselves. In some Islamic countries they aren't allowed to drive. They are taught from the craddle to obey their slave master men.

hhhmmm..

according to themuslimwoman.com everything you said is completely false...

Islam considers a woman to be equal to a man as a human being and as his partner in this life. Women have been created with a soul of the same nature as man’s. Allah (SWT) says in the Quran:

"O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship). Surely, Allah is Ever and All-Watcher over you." (Al-Nisa 4:1)

And in the words of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW),

"Assuredly, women are the twin halves of men." (Sahih reported by Abu-Dawud (RA)

Islam does not blame Eve alone for the First Sin. The Quran makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted, that they both

Islam considers a woman to be equal to a man as a human being and as his partner in this life. Women have been created with a soul of the same nature as man’s. Allah (SWT) says in the Quran:

"O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship). Surely, Allah is Ever and All-Watcher over you." (Al-Nisa 4:1)

And in the words of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW),

"Assuredly, women are the twin halves of men." (Sahih reported by Abu-Dawud (RA)

It seems we have someone with a bias opinion. Maybe you don't wish to even try to comprehend the things you dont understand.

Broad brushes dont paint detailed pictures.

reply to post by oozyism


Thanks for the huge letters - up until that point the screen was just a blur.

Your point is still not valid, and you also completely ignore the point about treating your wife like some sort of disobedient pet, tapping her in disapproval for something like an owner would tap his dogs nose for jumping on the couch.

Thats it really.
Made my point - you've made yours, neither of us will change our opinions but you have to see that your viewpoints are not in line with westernised viewpoints and that is what people in western cultures object to.
Will not reply again as have said all I need to say, good luck to you as there seems to be numerous other people picking holes in your arguments for you to deal with.

Regards

Originally posted by facchino
reply to post by oozyism

 

Thanks for the huge letters - up until that point the screen was just a blur.

What ever you say sir.

Your point is still not valid, and you also completely ignore the point about treating your wife like some sort of disobedient pet, tapping her in disapproval for something like an owner would tap his dogs nose for jumping on the couch.

So you agree that this is not assault then?

Thats it really.
Made my point - you've made yours, neither of us will change our opinions but you have to see that your viewpoints are not in line with westernised viewpoints and that is what people in western cultures object to.
Will not reply again as have said all I need to say, good luck to you as there seems to be numerous other people picking holes in your arguments for you to deal with.

Actually you made your point, then changed your poiint because you failed.

Regards

Nice discussing the issue with you, come again sometimes.

Originally posted by fonenyc
and shame on you;but then again it is a common practice of the fairer kind

.

ooooooh boy! Them's fight'n words!

I am sorry that you are blinded by your passion

No, sweetie. You are blinded by political correctness. My sight in this matter is perfect. It is clear. This matter is written in black and wite for all to see.

As for me I will continue to keep an open mind and respect all cultures

As I said, not all cultures are worthy of respect. Cultures that oppress women; teach that men should beat women; teach that rape victims are not victims but are instead the reason for the rape; stone homosexuals in the town center; preach that the way to heaven is to kill those who worship god differently; preach that heaven is an unending orgy for men and an unending whore-dom for women .... that's not worthy of respect.

Btw Islam was invented to do more than keep women in check.

Btw .. I know. It was invented by a murdering sex crazed yahoooooo who faked religious visions in order to gain money and power. Sound familiar? STill happens today. Only difference is that people today are a bit smarter and don't buy that garbage.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
reply to post by oozyism

 

If the muslim faith is so tolerant of woman, why do we heard of more honour killings in the UK, when the family are muslim than other faith familes.

Some of these familes must base their decision to kill a daughter or female relative because of their faith. Is this a good thing?

Honor killing is a culture originated from India.

Anyways, you should probably rephrase your question to something like this:
If the Muslim faith is so tolerant of women, why does 4 women convert to Islam for every man (US statistics).

Answer the above question, or just close your eyes and walk off outside for a walk or a smoke, then come back and see if the question is still there.

So they can cover their fugly faces and three of the converting are carrying bombs in disguise.

Originally posted by fonenyc
there is nothing wrong with Islam....

Just the fact that the ignorance of Islam exists is what's wrong with it.
Just the fact that people believe the made up horse-pooo is what is wrong with it.
It's obviously a cult that was invented by a human who FAKED visions of god.
Ask any woman who has escaped Islam what's wrong with it.
Ask any homosexual who has to fear for his/her life ...fear being stoned in public.
Ask any of the terrorist vicitms of The Religion of Peace what is wrong with it.

unless youre a feminist who wants to see women abuse the system used to regulate abuse toward women which is now obsolete?

Obsolete? Um .... wrong! It's very much in place and very much in practice.

Originally posted by oozyism
Taping someone who you don't know with an object is an assault, not your wife. Don't be naive, that is like saying touching your wife is rape. Grow up, and stop watching FOX news.

Don't be naive backatchya.

1 - The 'taping' is a control that men pull on women. If they disagree with the man, express their own opinon, do what they want and their husband 'taps' them ... they are supposed to obey immediately or else the Qu'ran says the husband can beat them. It's a CONTROL thing. The man and women are not equal but instead she's controlled. It's abusive mentally to control and threaten. That's what it is ... a threat of future abuse if she doesn't do what he wants. To use your words .... Don't be naive .. grow up ... stop watching MSNBC news.

2 - Touching your wife IS rape if she doesn't want to be touched. It's assault. And consdiering all the control that Islam gives men over women, the woman has to allow the rape, the assault, and has no where to turn. Many women in Islam aren't allowed to drive .. to leave the house ... to walk 'fast' ... to _______. So where is a woman to go? She can't leave. She's stuck with the control freak rapist.

As you say - don't be naive ... grow up and learn.

reply to post by oozyism


Actually if you could truly comprehend written English - you will see that I only repeat the same opinion in each of my posts that this behaviour is assault, married or not.
Go back over them and read again please, in order to see how wrong your comment is of me "changing my viewpoint as I have failed" - you are clearly either
a) delusional
b) smoking something

To clarify - I have always and still do think this is assault but as you have deduced to debate further still is pointless, as I will not waiver in my opinion and clearly nor will you.

Furthermore - throughout our exchange you have repeatedly evaded the 2nd point I made regarding this behaviour being part of a relationship that is not one of equals. Again I refer you back to all my previous posts where I have asked that of you but each time you neglect to comment, as you clearly have no answer that justifies you tapping your wife like you would a naughty dog or cat.

Do you have a wife? Do you treat her in such a disrespectful manner?
I am Genuinely curious because as said before I cannot understand how a woman would put up with being treated like a second class person rather than your equal and partner.

Do you have a daughter? I have 2 - and I tell you right now if someone treats either of them in such a demeaning fashion when they grow up they will get something "tapped" across their head...