UK's Islam Channel Censured for Guests Advocating Marital Rape

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
reply to post by oozyism

 

If the muslim faith is so tolerant of woman, why do we heard of more honour killings in the UK, when the family are muslim than other faith familes.

Some of these familes must base their decision to kill a daughter or female relative because of their faith. Is this a good thing?

Honor killing is a culture originated from India.

Can you explain why "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2)?

Originally posted by fonenyc
Islam is a culture that should be respected as any other...

Not all cultures are worthy of respect.
Beating and raping women is not worthy of respect.

if the women were unhappy then they can go to an embassy and seek asylum

You haven't read the information provided, have you? Women don't have the same rights as men in Islam or in Islamic countries. They can't just 'go to an embassy'. They aren't allowed to leave their husbands and many times aren't even allowed to leave their husbands home (note .. HIS home .. she doesn't have one).

Your statement 'just leave' shows that you haven't got the slightest understanding of what happens to women (and children) who suffer in an abusive relationship. They can't 'just leave'. Their spirits as well as their bodies are broken. Their slavemasters have them convinced that if they try to leave, they will be killed or at the very least will be worse off.

"women's rights" is a stupid movement

Says the man.

"women's rights" is really the movement of "men's wrongs"

Some of it is. So?

women's rights will lead to the legalization of prostitution...

Good.

What is the difference between child support, welfare/section A, alimony, divorce proceedings and prostitution?

Are you for real? What are you talking about? Child support - a man or woman has to take care of the life that they brought into the world. Alimony - many times one spouse has to give up his/her career or income in order to help the other ones career or to raise the children. It is fair for the more well off spouse to help the other in that situation. Divorce proceedings ... I have no idea why you brought that up. Prostitution - has nothing to do with child support or alimony or divorce. It has to do with a woman or man making $$ through physical services they render.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Starred!

reply to post by oozyism


Lol, nice thinking but the reality is different, you probably read great books but heck what happends in reall life is different. Woman have and still live through abusive husbands, boyfriends, brothers, and yes im sure there not many passages in any holy book about violence on women lol, but heck it happens everyday...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by fonenyc
Islam is a culture that should be respected as any other...

Not all cultures are worthy of respect. (WOW you actually said that? Maybe you mean not all "aspects" of culture are worthy of tolerance. I can tell what side of the fence you argue from. Chivalry is dead for a reason you know lol )

Beating and raping women is not worthy of respect.( no a rapist is not worthy of respect, but there are two sides to every story and Ive never met an innocent woman neither. Manipulation is also not worthy of respect. To strike is not to beat, and I do not remember hearing anything about rape. A wife can sex her husband and say it is rape, that is not admissible until valid proof is given of rape. Please do not twist the facts or allude to some "domestic fantasy/tragedy" lol to try and vindicate your distorted feminist views)
)

if the women were unhappy then they can go to an embassy and seek asylum

You haven't read the information provided, have you? Women don't have the same rights as men in Islam or in Islamic countries. They can't just 'go to an embassy'. They aren't allowed to leave their husbands and many times aren't even allowed to leave their husbands home (note .. HIS home .. she doesn't have one). (DO you understand the word "sacrifice"? if the conditions were that bad a woman could easily escape when the husband is out, or do you think Muslim men are just laying around all day?, or detour on a pilgrimmage. If there is a will there is way. )

Your statement 'just leave' shows that you haven't got the slightest understanding of what happens to women (and children) who suffer in an abusive relationship. They can't 'just leave'. Their spirits as well as their bodies are broken. Their slavemasters have them convinced that if they try to leave, they will be killed or at the very least will be worse off.( Nice an astute observation provided by, an astute observer; slightest might be a stretch of the word though. But many women have done just that, just leave, and are the better off for it. Or are they suffering withdrawal anxiety and having a hard time adjusting to life outside of an abusive relationship)

"women's rights" is a stupid movement

Says the man. ( says the woman, and further underscores a woman's pathology and preference to argue with what they perceive as logic; uhmn yeah ok woman lol whatever you say )

"women's rights" is really the movement of "men's wrongs"

Some of it is. So? ( soooooo ... instead of attacking men to be less men get some affirmative action and be more women. )

women's rights will lead to the legalization of prostitution...

Good. ( yes very good... so men can get a discount instead of getting married. wink wink hint hint)

What is the difference between child support, welfare/section A, alimony, divorce proceedings and prostitution?

Are you for real? What are you talking about? Child support - a man or woman has to take care of the life that they brought into the world. Alimony - many times one spouse has to give up his/her career or income in order to help the other ones career or to raise the children. It is fair for the more well off spouse to help the other in that situation. Divorce proceedings ... I have no idea why you brought that up. Prostitution - has nothing to do with child support or alimony or divorce. It has to do with a woman or man making $$ through physical services they render.

( wrong a man and a woman together are responsible for the life of said offspring. If she gives up her future for raising the children then she is under contract without black and white; kind of like common law marriage etc. A man pays a prostitute or his spouse, so whats the difference.... oh yeah commitment or basically "turning a wh or e into a housewife." Now it is fair until that same spouse gets a new man then he should be made responsible for payment, or does the man have to live with the woman's decision? If so then your argument is an extension of whatever passive aggressive manipulation that leads to a domestic violence. But I do agree with you on one point though, cheers, "Prostitution - has nothing to do with child support or alimony or divorce" and thats why it should be legal, so women can see what it is to be put on a pedestal. lol

Is this really 2010?
These people advocating violence against wives should not be allowed to marry

Actually you know what?
That brings up an interesting point.

In certain faiths truly advocate violence against significant others and those tenets are illegal in the country where the wedding is taking place.... simply make those weddings illegal!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Is this really 2010?
These people advocating violence against wives should not be allowed to marry

Actually you know what?
That brings up an interesting point.

In certain faiths truly advocate violence against significant others and those tenets are illegal in the country where the wedding is taking place.... simply make those weddings illegal!

YES!!! the law of a country should super cede and said religion's beliefs.... also holidays should be done away with... that will fix the economoy... I also advocate the separation of church and state... great post... star coming your way... even though it is really common sense

Well then, I think that I should take onboard what I am hearing. As a UK woman, who is unmarried but living with my partner of almost 10 years (does this make a difference?), I am now going to take up showing my displeasure of him ...

- leaving the house without me (bunny boiler anyone)
- not picking up his dirty clothes
- not washing the sink out after shaving
- etc, etc

By 'tapping' him gently with a pen to show him that I am upset.

So let me get this right. I find out that he has upset me after being out all day, go home to find him sitting in the garden. Is it 'normal' for me to go looking for a pen (you know you can never find one when you want one), then walk up to him and 'tap' him.

Because this is 'designed' to stop arguments, I don't need to use those heated words that can damage children but merely walk away from the situation knowing that he is aware that I am now upset.

Sounds like emotional abuse to me.

I said that I was willing to accept him leaving his dirty socks on the floor when we first moved in together 10 years ago. After 10 years of picking them up it drives me nuts! I'm not going to stand for it anymore as I realise that he can do it quite as easily as I can.

My point is, we all change and grow as people so what we thought was right 10 years ago may not be right now. But if I walk around 'tapping' my partner to let him know that I am upset, say nothing but walk away, he's then got to try and work out what it is that upset me.

No matter what way you try and butter this up with respect for religions, tolerance of different cultures etc - abuse is abuse is abuse! It has no place in British society regardless of colour/culture.

Mind you - if I decide to go and live in an Islamic country and parade around in my bikini - what would happen to me? I don't really care if anyone is born or bred here - this is a BRITISH society that might not be the best but when in Rome ......

Works for everyone else!

I think that a lot more than censuring of this TV programme needs to take place in the UK with regard to Islam. Islam, like Nazism and Communism, is just another totalitarian ideology that must, and will be defeated, much like the later two ideologies mentioned. Muhammed was one of many supposed prophets in the area at the time. He chose to hijack the Jewish faith and its teachings and supplement the Torah with his own radical and political teachings to control people and increase his power. He was a barbaric warlord who that murdered, raped, pilaged and destroyed not to mention the fact that he both practiced and condoned paedophilia! He behaved in the most abhorent ways and his follows continue that behaviour today. While the West has taken many centuries to arrive at a more enlightened and civilised society (we still have a lot more progress to make but we're half way there) the Islamic countries are attempting to drag us right back to the middle ages and undo what it is we have achieved. Much like Nazi Germany was defeated, so will be the Islamic Republics, and much like the Soviet version of Communsim was dealt with, so will the disgusting and repugnant Sharia law. No ideology has ever threatened our civilisation as does Islam right now. It has infiltrated our societies and is working from within and we are almost at the point where we will no longer be able to deal with this problem without huge conflict. The demographics of Europe speak for themselves. It's time to reassert our ideology and show what it is we stand for, what we will fight to protect, and what we will not tolerate, but we must do this whilst remaining true to our values which includes respect for all human life.

Consider that Islam says it's okay for an old man to marry a young girl.

Now when they say it's okay for a husband to rape his wife, you do the math.

All the "God" religions are sick that way, if you read the fine print of their "Holy" books.

reply to post by oozyism

Contrary to what you may think, my reply to your post is relevant to yours.

Taking an object out and tapping her in the middle of a disagreement? This is a sign of aggression while belittlling the wife. What you're saying is "I can touch you but you can't touch me."

Does it not say in the Koran that woman was created with the same nature and soul as a man? That she was created so that he would dwell with her in love?

Belittling your wife with a "tap" is not a sign of love. It's not a sign of equalness.It is a sign of empowering your might over the softer being of the human species.

Your attempts to sidestep the issue of the abuse of women in the Islamic culture is very apparent.

reply to post by fonenyc


First this progressiveness on the part of Western Christian Nations is rather recently found. Suffrage did not allow for women to vote in most Western nations until the early to mid 1900's. It's been less than a hundred years in the majority of Western Democracies including the U.S. and the U.K. that women have even been allowed to vote and not be discriminated against based on gender.

Now for my dear British friends across the pond, belaboring the pace Islam is keeping, in keeping up, I will remind you of the Victiorian Era "Rule of Thumb".

This English Law under a Femal Monarch actually permitted men to beat their wives with a cane or a switch cut from a tree as long as it did not exceed the widths of one's own thumb!

Domestic violence is not unique to any one religion, and the Patriarchal concepts in Judaism and Christianity are no different.

The faulty assumption is that while Jews and Christians often ignore portions of their scriptures that are inconvenient or no longer politically correct, that every one in Islam gets up every day and says, wow I have got to got to got to follow my book to the letter.

The reality is that they don't, any more than Jews and Christians do.

Now you still have some ultra orthodox sects of jews, and some very faithful sects of Christians, like the Amish and the menonites, not to mention the Mormons who basically preach the inferiority of women.

So yes, I think we could all focus in on the minority of the extremist in any of these sects, to make an hysterical paranoid case of how they 'threaten' us all. Yet that is once again just a small minority's 'focus' that are usually either ultra religious themselves, or heavily influenced by 'traditional values' of their Judean/Christian National upbringing, frightened that no, not everyone sees the same value in those things as they do.

The vast majority of Muslims are no more interested in living under Sharia Law than the vast majority of Jews want to live under Talmudic Law, than the vast majority of Christians want to live under Cannonical Law.

A close examination of our court systems will actually display tht there are large elements of Talmudic and Cannonical Law woven into it.

I honestly think one of the big fears of Christians and Jews when it comes to Sharia Law is that they have for the most part rejected and failed at their own scriptures, religious laws, and edicts, willingly and willfully while paying 'lip service' to their faiths, and are afraid that someday, someone might live them actually live up to what it means to be a Jew or Christian as but forward in their own scriptures.

Eventually Western Culture assimilates most but the most extreme religious zealots which is why sects like the Amish, and Menonites and Hasidic Jews are so small and marginalized.

This is much a do about nothing, in proto's oppinion, and while too many of us are focused on this issue our governments are busy looting our treasuries, taxing us to excess and allowing corporate monopolies to run over us all wholesale.

I wish you people would get your priorities straight!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by fonenyc

 

Now for my dear British friends across the pond, belaboring the pace Islam is keeping, in keeping up, I will remind you of the Victiorian Era "Rule of Thumb".

This English Law under a Femal Monarch actually permitted men to beat their wives with a cane or a switch cut from a tree as long as it did not exceed the widths of one's own thumb!

Rule of thumb never existed.

If you cant even seperate urban myths from reality and you're using them to justify these things then I truly despair for the world.

reply to post by seagull


Yeah the compulsory hacking of a child's genitalia is considered ok in some religions. Ahhh religion, wonderful religion.

I'm glad that there are moderate Muslims living in the USA. One of my friends is Afghani, a Muslim, and is a completely normal dude for the most part. The problem seems to be extremists, and there are more of them in England than anywhere else it seems (in Europe I mean). Personally, I think we're headed down a dirty road towards internment camps at some point. I hope not, but I think so.

Where does a society draw the line?

The line should be drawn when a religious custom violates existing legislation (such as rape, battery, etc.).

Seems to be a pretty easy distinction. Rape is rape, just as assault is assault. Doesn't matter what deity you pray to...as a society, we've made laws to define what is, and what is not acceptable, independent of faith, and religious customs should not override acceptable human behavior, agreed upon by the masses and the citizenry.

I find it ironic that this websites motto is "Deny ignorance" yet so many people in this thread have repeatedly demonstrated an immense ignorance of Islam.

Oozyism and Sherlock Holmes (and others as the thread progressed and I became disinterested in reading everything) are the only ones here with any understanding of true Islam.

And no I'm a follower of the Quaran, I'm just not close minded.

Carry on.

Originally posted by Gazrok

Where does a society draw the line?

The line should be drawn when a religious custom violates existing legislation (such as rape, battery, etc.).

Seems to be a pretty easy distinction. Rape is rape, just as assault is assault. Doesn't matter what deity you pray to...as a society, we've made laws to define what is, and what is not acceptable, independent of faith, and religious customs should not override acceptable human behavior, agreed upon by the masses and the citizenry.

yes quite simply ... case closed.... if the majority overrule the religion then so be it.... if the majority back the religion, also so be it... I believe if a country is concerned with "humane treatment" of women by default those women should be granted asylum automatically.... imagine all those beautiful muslim women in America ?.... oh yeah and I could start up.... www.muslimdivorcees.com.... lol make a ish load of money and retire with my concubines

Legalize prostitution and polygamy and there will be no feminist movement I promise that or I will kill myself on pay per view.... all in the name of women's rights lol

Well guys lets see what the koran says about beating the crap out of your wife

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife

Some of you are finaly getting it.... They are not tolerant of ANYTHING

Originally posted by thecinic
Well guys lets see what the koran says about beating the crap out of your wife

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife

Some of you are finaly getting it.... They are not tolerant of ANYTHING

If this is indeed not a Vatican issued version of the Quran, meaning it is true to the scripture, then I say this, who are we to judge the MOST HIGH?

Wasnt it Yaweh who ordered the genocide of the Phillistines by the original Nazis, King David's Jews? Wasnt that God also the one who ordered Abraham to saccrifice his son to him in order to test his faith? Or what of Jehovah who fried Sodom and Gomorrah? ( gay rights my ass -no homo- or pun intended Jehovah also uhmn let the devil loose on Job, oh yeah and who can forget abandoning the Jew in ww2? Jehovah's own chosen ppl.

All Gods display a wanton disregard for human life so what of a few domestic violent disputes between consenting adults? lol hey the way I see it Eve was punished after Eden with childbirth.... is that not pain enough?

I believe a queen is a queen and a pawn a pawn... not all women are created equal... I believe if the laws of paternal responsibility were deleted less to no beatings would occur.... cmon she taking half is the sub-conscious thought over most domestic violence.... prenups should be automatic and a right waived on the birth certificate

Legalize prostitution and polygamy... there are good men who know how to treat women and deserve to care for the women of bad men.... not that women are possessions though so women should be allowed to marry more than one man as well.... allow people there perversions.... and separate church and state once and for good.... force God to come back and finish what God started.... that will settle the argument