Poppy-burning Muslim protesters mar Armistice Day commemorations as millions fall

reply to post by Yissachar1


Just remember that some impoverished Pakistani family in need of aid after a natural disaster has nothing to do with these utter tools disrespecting the two-minute silience on Armistice Day.

They may loosely believe in the same religion, but just as you wouldn't judge all Christians by the odious actions of the Westboro Baptist Church, then you shouldn't tar all people in Muslim countries with the same brush as this group of extremists.


I completely understand your anger on this, mate, I'm rather angry about it too, but let's not let emotion get in the way of reason.

Our anger and negative feelings should be entirely aimed towards these particular extremists, and anybody that shares their warped view in our society.

reply to post by Freeborn


Me too.

I know this sounds awfull but I really hate them at the moment. I know it was just a tiny minority of a minority, but im sick of the disparity in the way these things get dealt with, and the usual token gesture statement from the muslim council. Where is their outrage?

Tomorrow is Eid. I wonder how they would react to that being disrespected, and howthe police would deal with it, after all, it would be people exersising free speech.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I said I would begrudge it, not refuse, and it would definitely be in the back of my mind and may effect my genourosity in future.

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

Yes you are right, somethings crook in tullurook! When one group are afforded privelidge over
another there will always be unrest, i have noticed a rise in what looks like government organised
protest seemingly to increase tensions between the two prominent religions, this is starting to get
interesting!

The establishment are playing this one really well... and it seems they will get the conflict they seek, or at the very least create an even more divided nation.

Originally posted by Yissachar1

Tomorrow is Eid.

Quite correct, that has been noticed,

I don't hate them, I feel anger towards them but most of all I feel sorry for them and their ignorance - they know no better.

But I have nothing but contempt for the apologists and their constant excuses for those who support those that would deny them the self same rights they allegedly put so much faith in.

I genuinely fear major confrontation is inevitable.
I hope i'm wrong.

reply to post by Yissachar1

This is very bad, something really bad could happen out of this
Not good!

One thing to keep in mind though, I think what happened is definately negative
However just to play devil's advocate for a sec

If many white caucasian brits hate Tony Blair for being a war criminal, how do you think muslims feel?

I'm just saying, I do not like the story that I read or stupid images of dumb picket signs that I saw
But someone needs to play devil's advocate

Furthermore, on a second note
Armistice Day

Though I have participated, as I do every year, in Rememberance's Day's moment of silence
Just to play devil's advocate:



Very Interesting Video:
U.S. and U.K. companies who funded nazis
www.dailymotion.com...

To simply have an emotional response on everything is not the most efficient route to peace and understanding!

reply to post by thoughtsfull


I see it that way too. And im angry at myself for feeling this way too because I know that it was the intent.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


When mates die in your arms who you love as a brother, and their memory gets stamped on, then you tend to get.a tad emotional. What if i was to piss on one of your ancestors graves? You would probably get upset no?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You are quite correct.

But none of this has any relevance on a nation paying their respect to those that served it.

There is no slight or insult intended at all and is an apolitical excercise.

That some find offense speaks more about them than those who seek to remember and commemorate.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
When mates die in your arms who you love as a brother, and their memory gets stamped on, then you tend to get.a tad emotional. What if i was to piss on one of your ancestors graves? You would probably get upset no?

Yes I do agree
and i'm pretty sure that's the reason why many of these muslims were protesting

It's a very complicated issue this is
It's sad that's it's complicated

it being complicated makes me sad
I do not judge you for your anger however

The picket signs kinda got me angry too... and even makes me feel guilty for playing devil's advocate

Originally posted by Freeborn
But none of this has any relevance on a nation paying their respect to those that served it.

There is no slight or insult intended at all and is an apolitical excercise.

That some find offense speaks more about them than those who seek to remember and commemorate.

I agree
It's complicated man

But when you say it has no relevance, remember it has no relevance TO YOU

I'm Hindu Indian
If i'm in the UK and was asked to pay respects to the queen......
I don't think I would do it because of the Brit's occupation of India

But then again.... times have changed
Though the queen, for me, doesn't represent all of Britain
I should respect the culture

So....... It's a complicated situation
My only point is that one should empathize with both sides of the fence
And that's where I stand... On the fence!

I do respect the moment of silence every year though

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Paying respect to The Queen and those who have served this country, including quite a few Indians, are two seperate things.

I don't expect everyone to agree with our Remembrance Day commemoration, but I do expect people to show it the same respect and dignity that they demand for their own observations.

Pretty simple really.

Even more so when you consider it also serves as a reminder of the horrors of war, the sacrifice some have to pay in all such instances and why it should be avoided whenever possible.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Paying respect to The Queen and those who have served this country, including quite a few Indians, are two seperate things.

Maybe in paper
But not in reality

You know why?

Originally posted by Freeborn
when you consider it also serves as a reminder of the horrors of war, the sacrifice some have to pay in all such instances and why it should be avoided whenever possible.

That's why!

This is about perception, what the war reminds you of and what it reminds others of.

Unfortunately, I think the best approach here in this story is to take no sides
That's best we can do

reply to post by ModernAcademia


If you came to England at the time of remembrance, even if you do not take sides would you not join with the Indian community in paying your respects at any of the Indian Memorials? in my home town we have 3! one of which was a gift from India to my the people of my town.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
If you came to England at the time of remembrance, even if you do not take sides would you not join with the Indian community in paying your respects at any of the Indian Memorials?

Join indians or join British people or Americans or Canadian people
I pay my respects every year no matter the entourage

This is not about what it is to me
I am simply able to empathize

That's what people SHOULD be about
being able to empathize

To just take sides because of where you live, the color of one's skin or what faith one respects is not a desciption of an evolved society to me

We can't be cavemen forever, we cannot survive in peace like this

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
in my home town we have 3! one of which was a gift from India to my the people of my town.

And that's a good thing
But at the same time we should not forget history

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The Queen is an irrelevance, an anachronism, maybe even an indulgence of a nation that requires the odd reminder of it's heritage.
A figure head and representation of a supposed collective identity.

She has absolutely no relevance or bearing on the lives of everyday Brits.

But those we remember and commemorate on Remembrance Day are our grand parents and parents, our brothers and sisters, our friends and neghbours.
They are real and mean something to us.
It is them who we honour and show our respect to and the sacrifice they paid.
Disrespect them and you disrespect the very essence that we ourselves are.

I'm sure you see the real and big difference between the two.

Originally posted by Freeborn
The Queen is an irrelevance, an anachronism, maybe even an indulgence of a nation that requires the odd reminder of it's heritage.
A figure head and representation of a supposed collective identity.

I cannot disagree with you there
But that's not the topic at hand despite my complete agreement with you

Originally posted by Freeborn
But those we remember and commemorate on Remembrance Day are our grand parents and parents, our brothers and sisters, our friends and neghbours.

UK is one of the most cosmopolitan regions on this planet

You know what?
I'm anti-abortion, I do not believe that you should be to kill
Kill may depend on trimester

But at the same time one should be maybe able to abort if raped
Rape is a sad fact of reality that we have to come to terms with
Whenever I think about it and end up agreeing with abortion if rape is part of the picture I feel like i'm losing a part of my soul

But it's reality
Even many conservatives have to start accepting that the world is changing

Also many have to accept that there are fewer and fewer countries that gets to have a strong hold on their culture
This is part of moving on
Countries are becoming more cosmopolitan
Canada, U.S., Australia and UK have to start understanding this
Mostly colonized regions FYI

Those were YOUR grandparents, not theirs, and yes these muslims they live there now

Originally posted by Freeborn
They are real and mean something to us.

What's your opinion of the Vietnam War with the inclusion of the Gulf of Tonkin?

What is your opinion on troops killing innocent iraqis or afghanis?

Should the future generations respect these wars too and it's soldiers?

Originally posted by Freeborn
It is them who we honour and show our respect to and the sacrifice they paid.
Disrespect them and you disrespect the very essence that we ourselves are..

Today?

I'm sure you see the real and big difference between the two.

It's still perception though
You cannot take that away

I do not disagree with you completely

And if you look at today man
Troops are depleting your freedoms not protecting them

Shouldn't we as an evolved society not only think with our hearts but our minds too?

*deleted by author*

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I have no problem living in such a cosmopolitan society.

Immigrants who contribute to society and help us continue growing and developing are a boon to the UK.
Any society that refuses to change, adapt and evolve is doomed.

But that is not the issue here.

These protesters refuse to offer the same respect and dignity to other's that they demand for themselves.
That is hypocrisy of the highest order and has no place in UK society.

How do I feel about Vietnam?
In all honesty I know relatively little about it other than the more well known basic facts.
I don't think it was America's greatest moment in time.

We were sold a lie about Iraq and people should be held accountable for the actions and deliberate mis-leading and possible fabrication or exaggeration of facts.
But it is worthwhile noting that Saddam was a paricularly brutal and repressive tyrant.

Afganistan is a diffrent and complicated situation.
The Taliban are a particularly barbaric and oppresive organisation and can not be allowed to regain control.
It is clear that our presence is resented.
But can Afghanistan sort it's own problems?
I suspect not.
There is certainly no easy or simple solution.

But none of that justifies the actions of those protesters and their hate filled message.

Originally posted by Freeborn
These protesters refuse to offer the same respect and dignity to other's that they demand for themselves.
That is hypocrisy of the highest order and has no place in UK society.

It's not the same demand
Respecting soldiers that are invading vs. insurgents and civilians that died opposing an invasion is NOT the same thing.

I'm sorry, it's just the difficult reality that it is

Originally posted by Freeborn
We were sold a lie about Iraq and people should be held accountable for the actions and deliberate mis-leading and possible fabrication or exaggeration of facts.

This article is an example of a result of the reality of your above post
It's an emotional response to the state of current events

Originally posted by Freeborn
But it is worthwhile noting that Saddam was a paricularly brutal and repressive tyrant.

Many believe that Bush was a tyrant
Many americans believe so
Would you support a foreign entity invading your country to overthrow him?

I'm no fan of Saddam FYI
His brother was very evil too
All siblings deverse the worse!

Originally posted by Freeborn
Afganistan is a diffrent and complicated situation.
Americans would not act that different
But none of that justifies the actions of those protesters and their hate filled message.

To you
But to them it's an illegal invasion killing many civilians
And whether it was different wars or not to them it's the same army
That's the issue here
Perception!

This entire debate is nothing more than really being about perception

Put it this way, did this protest happen in prior rememberance days before the Iraq/Afghanistan wars?
Isn't that the most important question in this thread?